Telepathy

[khorpulent]

Any empaths out there train in telepathy lore? Don't really have a reason for asking, I'm just curious and trying to avoid grading some papers.

I trained 100 ranks in it so that I can use sympathy in Reim/Sanctum/Rift a while back. At the time I felt a little ridiculous spending that many points just for 1120, but I've been pretty pleased with the results. It makes a huge difference when hunting in undead/mixed areas to be able to disable all the creatures in the room. I used to have to just run away when things got dicy in the sanctum.

I've also found myself using 1108 a lot recently. I know that telepathy lore helps 1108, but there's not really any information on exactly how much of a benefit you get from lore. I used it so little before I picked up those telepathy ranks that I don't really know how much of a difference, but I've gotten a lot of use out of a combo of 1108/1110. I can immobilize just about anything for quite a long time with 1108 and just let the 1110 warding cycles do the rest of the work (I get 6 cycles!). It's kind of slow, but an interesting means of crowd control, especially in warcamps. In an orc camp, I can just hit orcs with 1110 and wander off to another room, and they'll be dead when I come back.

One of these days I'll do the math on the percentage of instakills I get from 1108, but even with 100 ranks it's not that high. Maybe 5%? It's a shame it's just random and not an endroll threshold like 717, but I guess 1108 costs a lot less mana too.

Does anyone else out there actually use 1108? It's one of those spells I had kind of written off, but I really like it these days. I do think the telepathy really cuts down on the likelihood of making the creature just run off into another room, which is probably the reason why I didn't use it much in the first place.

[Luscinia]

I tested 1108 a while back and these are my guesses for how it works:


The spell has three endroll ranges: 101-120, 120-149, and 150+.
Within a range, it doesn't matter what the roll is. 150 is as good as 250.
101-149 contains the results of the target running to a different room.
120-149 contains the results of hesitating briefly.
150+ is always either frozen or instant kills.
The instant kill rate on 150+ is about 20%. It's possible this depends on lore but I couldn't fixskill to test.
Telepathy lore modifies the thresholds so you can start getting the best results starting from 140-ish endrolls.

[khorpulent]

I've been testing out 1108 some since you've posted this and your theory seems to be pretty sound, as far as I can tell. It's hard to say exactly because of my 100 ranks of lore.

Since I've been testing, the lowest endroll I've had that resulted in freezing the creature was 132. Everything else below that has caused it to run or to "struggle to regain composure" (though I did have one 132 roll that gave me the composure message as well). I've yet to have a roll over 130 cause the creature to flee to another room -- that seems to mostly happen on endrolls under 120, and even then not consistently. It makes me wonder if one effect of lore is to reduce the likelihood of the creature fleeing and make it more likely for the composure message (I'm guessing that imposes RT on the target?).

My data gathering methods are a bit iffy, but I came out with something like a 17% chance of instant kill on rolls of 150+. I've never had a kill on a roll under 150, so I'm guessing that lore doesn't lower that threshold. Assuming you were testing with little or no telepathy lore, this would seem to indicate that telepathy has no effect on the rate of instant kills.

My guess as to the effects of lore is that it:
-lowers the threshold for freezing the target, but not killing it (apparently at 100 ranks the threshold is at or near 132, at least with my stats)
-increases the chance of inflicting RT instead of causing the target to flee at lower rolls.

I think I need to gather a bit more data to confirm that second point, but it's hard to get those lower endrolls.

I also occasionally get an additional message that the target "writhes in apparent agony" both when I freeze a creature and when it struggles to maintain composure. Not really sure what that means, but it seems random. I've never seen it when a target flees.

[audioserf]

No Telepathy lore but 1108 is my "go away" spell for GWEs just the same. At worst it slows them, ideally it makes them run a room away or freeze/die. Even if I had spell aim I can't see it ever being worth killing one with bolts, so 1108 works.

[Mikalmas]

My empath is level 86, and I created him at level 0 myself, and not once can I recall using 1108. I forgot it even existed. It looks like they pretty much reskinned Repel Undead and gave it to empaths? :D Well, upon closer examination, maybe not reskinned Repel, but it looks an awfully lot like it from what my memory recalls. I don't recall if Repel Undead froze the target or if it was just run or die scenario with Repel.

[audioserf]

That would be way better. Repel was a guaranteed death on 151+ right? This is more like a terrible evil eye.

[khorpulent]

I think of it as more like a cheap 214 with a chance of death. I can freeze creatures for quite some time with it -- it's great setup spell when you have a melee/bolt hunting partner. I don't have the major spirit CS to bind stuff with 214, so it's a nice single-target disabler.

[khorpulent]

Okay, apparently my earlier theories aren't quite right. The threshold for fearing something is apparently variable. I've successfully feared creatures with as low as a 132, but I've now had rolls as high as 135 and 136 make them flee and get RT. I also killed one just now with a 141 endroll, so maybe the instakill chance has the same thresholds as the fear?

You gesture at a Grimswarm troll cleric.
CS: +507 - TD: +402 + CvA: +11 + d100: +19 == +135
Warding failed!
The troll cleric blinks for a moment, then runs northeast!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds

You gesture at a Grimswarm troll guard.
CS: +507 - TD: +401 + CvA: +8 + d100: +22 == +136
Warding failed!
The troll guard struggles to maintain composure.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You gesture at a Grimswarm troll soldier.
CS: +507 - TD: +380 + CvA: -13 + d100: +27 == +141
Warding failed!
In a panic, the troll soldier discards her gear to aid her flight!
The troll soldier blinks for a moment, then runs off!
[You have earned 65 prestige points.]
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

[panapple]

I'm in Voln, mainly so I can use the Voln armor I have, and curious whether it's worth it to train 1x in Telepathy lore for the use of 1108 and 1120 on undead. I find it hard to bind undead, since my major spirit CS isn't great, and these seem to be the only means of crowd control in the Empath circle.

I've been training in Summoning and Transformation lore as well, but it seems like I'll need to sacrifice points in those to get Telepathy up to level.

[khorpulent]

Telepathy is a game-changer for empaths. Once you start hunting in capped areas with mixed undead/living, you have no means of crowd control if you can't use 1120 against half the creatures you encounter. Pre-cap, there aren't nearly as many mixed hunting areas, so I wouldn't call it necessary; I didn't 1x telepathy until sometime past 2x cap. But since you're in Voln, you may find it useful. And 1108 doesn't really get a lot of attention, but I love it, especially since the telepathy update. 214 generally isn't very useful because of CS, like you mention.

Empaths need so much lore, though, that it's hard to find the points for telepathy. The real solution is obviously to quit Voln and join Sunfist like every sensible empath should. See: sigil of power.

[panapple]

Thanks! Yea I agree with the lores. It's just hard for me to leave my t4 Voln armor behind, saved me in countless occasions. And it's nice to be able to rescue with symbol of return, since I suck at dragging. Might just try fixskilling to try out telepathy first, and if it's still a struggle, might just bite the bullet and jump societies...