Salute to Emmit Smith

[crazymage]

He's retiring after 13 years.

[Makkah]

Bout fucking time

[crazymage]

He had a decent year for being a mid 30 rb on a bad team. But most rbs hit a wall at like 32 anyway, look at eddie george and bettis before his resurgence.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Emmit I think is arguably one of the best running backs ever -- Sweetness, Sanders maybe, Brown... he was in a very elite club. Both on the field and more to the point, off it. He was a real rolemodel.

[Parkbandit]

To me.. no one comes close to Barry Sanders. The guy played on a team that had him as the only offensive threat.. and the offensive line sucked.

Stick Barry on a team with a good line.. there wouldn't even be a discussion.

[Miss X]

who?

[crazymage]

COMMIE WHORE!

[Hulkein]

I don't even think Emmit is top 5, skill wise.

He's great, but he had a line that opened up holes the size of Klaive's surface area.

[Parkbandit]

Emmit Smith deserves his kudos and recognition. He has gained more yards than any other RB in history.

[crazymage]

Yeh i hate the cowboys but emmit was pretty damn good for a long time.

[AnticorRifling]

He's no sweetness but he's good.

[Keller]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
To me.. no one comes close to Barry Sanders. The guy played on a team that had him as the only offensive threat.. and the offensive line sucked.

Stick Barry on a team with a good line.. there wouldn't even be a discussion.

Barry had so many defenders to dance around BECAUSE he didn't have the Denver/Kansas City offensive line. I love the runs where he will evade 5 tacklers and STILL lose 3 yards. He was amazing.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Hulkein
I don't even think Emmit is top 5, skill wise.

He's great, but he had a line that opened up holes the size of Klaive's surface area.

I use to say the same thing..... Until I saw a 2 hour show about Emmit on ESPN not to long ago, and he was amazing. He was no Barry Sanders, but the guy could move and break plays open that should have been loses. He also was an all around player. He could block better then almost any RB, something that Barry lacked. He's definately a top 5 RB.

[Scott]

Looks like he's not retiring.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-emmitt-retirement

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
To me.. no one comes close to Barry Sanders. The guy played on a team that had him as the only offensive threat.. and the offensive line sucked.

Stick Barry on a team with a good line.. there wouldn't even be a discussion.

Sorry for being a homer here, but if that's your argument for Sanders, I've got to point this out. From Payton's rookie year until the mid-80s, the Bears offense was Payton right, Payton left, Payton up the middle. And there were some BAD Bears teams in the 70s.

Secondly, Payton played 3 seasons of 14 game years, and a strike-shortened season, all in his prime. That could easily be another 1500-2000 yards on his total.

[Star of David]

Emitt is at best the 4th best RB in NFL history and that may be generous to even say that. I can drop some knowledge stat-wise to back myself up if anyone disagrees. IMO longevity and being on a dynasty don't necessarily
make him a better running back than others that were not as lucky.

[Anebriated]

Alot of Emmits success came because he had a good group around him. Good recievers, good QB, good line. I dont think he would have been able to put up the same numbers if the cowboys werent a dynasty through the 90's.

Hes good, but not top 5, top 10 yes.

[Star of David]

to clarify sweetness, jb, and barry are better than emmitt hands down. there is no telling what Orenthal, (laugh but he was great) Eric Dickerson, tony D, gaale sayers, earl campbell, bo jackson, or even guys like jerome bettis, mashall faulk or thurman thomas would have done if they had played 15 years and had been on an amazing team like emmitt was (before he went to arizona). J ust Because he has the most rushing yards, that doesn't mean he is the best rb. Hank Aaron has the most homeruns but he also is not the best power hitter.

[Edited on 12-05-1981 by Star of David]

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Personally, I don't feel like being on a dynasty hurts Emmitt as much as most others believe it does. Look at Roger Craig, he was on the 49ers dynasty and he doesn't have anywhere close to the numbers Smith put up.

Having a great line does take away a little from his "greatness" but the fact that he's the all-time leading rusher has to at least put him in the top 5.

The game where he continued playing with a separated shoulder can attest to that. All the great ones have stories like that.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

I'd also like to say that despite the fact of me being a homer and thinking that Payton is the best running back ever, I do have a lot of respect for Sanders.

The reason why he loses out to me is because #1, he's a quitter. #2, he ran around guys instead of through them. That's just something personal. Payton was the kind of back that would lower his head and nail the tackler so hard that he would think twice about coming after him again. That gains more respect from me than the speed and evasion of Barry Sanders.

[Star of David]

Bottom line is Emmitt was a victim of circumstance. when Barry retired in 98 at the age of 30 he had 15269 yards rushing and Emmitt in 98 at the age of 29 had 12566 yards rushing. 3k less. And look at the team barry was on, he had ummm rodney pettey, scott mitchell, stoney case, andre ware, dave krieg, and a bunch of other jerk offs no one remmembers at QB. At the same time Emmitt had two other hall of famers in troy and irvin next to him along with a great o-line and defense. No contest Barry was better than Emmitt.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Emmitt very nearly rushed for 1000 yards at Az LAST YEAR. No stellar line, no hall of famers. He's 35 years old. What clinches it for me is that he's a rolemodel, on and off the field. No touchdown dances, no strip club antics... He is what I would like to see in all professional athletes.

[Skeeter]

Emmitt is the best of all time. I can't even understand the argument.

he holds almost all of the major records running backs can hold. He was fantastic in high school, and then set the all time rushing mark while at florida, and then does it in the pros.

Don't argue what-ifs with me. argue dids. What if barry had this what if Walter had that. fuck that, emmitt DID it.

Also JB and the older guys who were such superstars, played against defensive players that had full time jobs when they weren't playing football. Impossible to compare erra's that have that big of a disparity

[Tsa`ah]

There really isn't any justification in saying one was better than the other when comparing the elite.

Payton, Smith, Sanders ... all elite.

Payton personally will always be the best to me. Played through the mentality shift of professional football and stayed true to the game. He put the effort first and the paycheck after while the rising mentality became "Pay me". Payton is easily one of the all-time greatest football players, but there were and are better running backs. Better people? I would say Payton was short on company in the NFL in that respect.

Sanders ... Watching Sanders made my knees ache. Payton was hard nosed because Payton had to be hard nosed. Sanders could evade like no one else. When you play the game, you play it in the best possible manner you are able. Sanders playing like Payton would leave us asking "Who the fuck is Sanders?” Sanders made his name playing his game. Hats off for that.

Smith is a hard nose, not a Payton hard nose, but a hard nosed back none the less. As mentioned, he played with injuries that a majority that would have voluntarily benched a majority of his peers. Watching that game with the separated shoulder reminded me of watching Isiah Thomas outscore the entire Lakers team in the third quarter of a championship game with a severely injured ankle. Smith has proven he is elite with or without the support.

You can compare the total rushing yards, yards per carry, attempts, years, TDs if you want, but it comes down to the player and what they brought to the game.

[peam]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn't come into play in football. A great talent on a shitty team shouldn't be an excuse to bump someone up a few notches because of 'what they could have done'.

Emmit is one of the all-time time greats with a career that eclipses Sanders'.

[Hulkein]

Put in Curtis Martin in the place of Emmit Smith, same circumstances, he would be the all-time leading rusher.

Emmit is in the 4th-6th range of the best of all-time.

[Skeeter]

woulda coulda shouldas.

Emmitt did.

[Tsa`ah]

Have to a gree with the "woulda coulda shoulda" crowd.

If he cant do it where he's at, he's not going to be able to anywhere else. The best bring it every game and in every situation.

If Martin can't do it with what he had and has, he'll never be able to do it with what anyone else has.

[Latrinsorm]

Yeah, John Elway couldn't win the Super Bowl without a running game to back him up, obviously he never won the Super Bowl.

Football is one of the only games where the supporting cast actually impacts production. I don't understand how this is arguable.

[Hulkein]

Martin is still an amazing rusher.

Emmit is great and rightfully holds the records.

He's still not the best to play running back, talent wise.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Football is one of the only games where the supporting cast actually impacts production. I don't understand how this is arguable.

Tell that to any pitcher on a defensively challenged team.

[peam]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Yeah, John Elway couldn't win the Super Bowl without a running game to back him up, obviously he never won the Super Bowl.

Football is one of the only games where the supporting cast actually impacts production. I don't understand how this is arguable.

I'm pretty sure he had a young and talented Terrell Davis during both the 98-99 superbowl wins.

[Latrinsorm]

That was my point.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Martin is still an amazing rusher.

Emmit is great and rightfully holds the records.

He's still not the best to play running back, talent wise.

This is why Martin will never compare if he isn't prepared to bring it.

66 yards rushing vs SD post season.
77 yards rushing vs PIT post season.

If you can't do it when it counts you'll never be compared to the greats.

[Skeeter]

I agree.

If I have one game I absolutely have to win. Emmitt is my back.

Dude just dominated in the playoffs and superbowls.

Heard a stat today, in all of barry's playoff games he only broke 70 once. and that was 74? yards

I think they said that was in 6 playoff games. (too lazy to do the research myself) Doesn't sound like greatest of all time stats to me.

[Stunseed]

Smith would be in my top five, personally. I'd imagine fourth or fifth, though.

1. Sweetness
2. Sanders
3. Brown
4. Smith
5. J. Riggins < okay, I'm biased and all but I really thought he made the 'Skins back in the day >

[Brattt8525]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Put in Curtis Martin in the place of Emmit Smith, same circumstances, he would be the all-time leading rusher.

Emmit is in the 4th-6th range of the best of all-time.

Emmit could find holes, where there was maybe a crack. His talent and heart enabled him to plow through to get the yards needed and then some.

Don't take away from a great RB, the man had/has a heart and the talent to do what he has done.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
This is why Martin will never compare if he isn't prepared to bring it.

66 yards rushing vs SD post season.
77 yards rushing vs PIT post season.

If you can't do it when it counts you'll never be compared to the greats.

He's also like 34 years old now.

Put him at age 25 behind Larry Allen and co. (Including Moose Johnston as his fullback) with Aikmen to Irvin and see what he'd do.

Those teams were known for striking through the air early, making D's play the pass, and then letting Emmit run.

[Edited on 2-3-2005 by Hulkein]

[peam]

I miss the glory days. :'(

[Hulkein]

I miss two things from those days.

-Stopping Emmit 4th and 1, having something nullify the play, then stopping him 4th and 1 again.

-Michael Irvin's career ending against us.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Hulkein
He's also like 34 years old now.

Put him at age 25 behind Larry Allen and co. (Including Moose Johnston as his fullback) with Aikmen to Irvin and see what he'd do.

Those teams were known for striking through the air early, making D's play the pass, and then letting Emmit run.


If he can't do it with what he has, he won't be able to do it with what Emmit had.

Payton had no one for a majority of his career. No fridge to run around, no Suey to run behind, no McMahon to soak up DL time. It was Payton and the defense for the Bears. Every team Chicago played knew that it was Payton coming at them most of the time when the ball entered play.

So I really don't care about "Put him in this position and let's see". He can't do it where he's at; he won't be able to do it anywhere else.

[Hulkein]

<<So I really don't care about "Put him in this position and let's see". He can't do it where he's at; he won't be able to do it anywhere else.>>

Wrong.

[Tsa`ah]

Wrong? Is that all you have?

Martin is a good back but he's not comparable to anyone else mentioned in this thread. The only thing he has going for him at this point is a fan boy who thinks he's that great but can't back up arguments.

Let me restate this. If he can't do it where he is at, with what he has, he'll never be comparable.

The greats turned dog shit, fucked over plays into high light reels. The greats came through when it mattered and when it didn't. Being held under 150 yards over the span of two post season games isn't a good way to get recognized for your ability.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Wrong? Is that all you have?

Martin is a good back but he's not comparable to anyone else mentioned in this thread. The only thing he has going for him at this point is a fan boy who thinks he's that great but can't back up arguments.

Let me restate this. If he can't do it where he is at, with what he has, he'll never be comparable.

The greats turned dog shit, fucked over plays into high light reels. The greats came through when it mattered and when it didn't. Being held under 150 yards over the span of two post season games isn't a good way to get recognized for your ability.

Two games does not a great back make. While I believe the jury is still out with Martin.. I do believe that if he keeps up this years pace over the next couple years (and probably trade off Jordan in the process) he will most certainly achieve top running back status.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Martin is a good back but he's not comparable to anyone else mentioned in this thread. The only thing he has going for him at this point is a fan boy who thinks he's that great but can't back up arguments.


Fan boy?

I couldn't give two-shits about Curtis Martin.

I can back up my arguments easily. You said - "If he cant do it where he's at, he's not going to be able to anywhere else." - That is complete BS. There are countless examples in people leaving one team as an average player and then turning in multiple pro-bowl caliber seasons elsewhere.

Your comment was so stupid that 'wrong' was sufficient.


Let me restate this. If he can't do it where he is at, with what he has, he'll never be comparable.

He has done it where he's at, dipshit.

Rushing Leaders

Emmit Smith - 18,355
Payton - 16, 726
Sanders 15,269
Curtis Martin - 13,366

That is with teams that were never close to Emmits, and he's still 4th all-time.

Stick to chemistry, you don't know the NFL if you think Martin didn't 'do it where he' was.


The greats turned dog shit, fucked over plays into high light reels. The greats came through when it mattered and when it didn't.

Thanks Cpt. Obvious.


Being held under 150 yards over the span of two post season games isn't a good way to get recognized for your ability.

He is 32 years old.....

[Edited on 2-3-2005 by Hulkein]

[Skeeter]

Since for some reason you love to argue what-ifs so much, and not deal with reality.

What if this was baseball. Emmitt would be unamimously considered the greatest back of all time just from his stats.

[Wizard82]

Barry's the greatest. 'Nuff said.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Skeeter
Since for some reason you love to argue what-ifs so much, and not deal with reality.

What if this was baseball. Emmitt would be unamimously considered the greatest back of all time just from his stats.

When arguing who was the best, talent wise, what-ifs are necessery.

[Skeeter]

I find stats to be much more efficient than speculation

[Hulkein]

Whatever, dog.

If you can't comprehend that it isn't all just the running back, and that Barry Sanders/Walter Payton played on teams that weren't even CLOSE to as talented as Emmit's, thus effecting their satistical production, than you ... are special.

[Skeeter]

Here's speculation for you.

Does the line make the back, or does the back make the line.

I know you're a local guy. Look at how good the OSU line was when Mo Clarett (ugh can't believe I'm typing his name with something good) was running, as opposed to Ross or Hall the year before. They were bums the year before, but great when Clarett was running. Even though Ross and Hall still put up pedestrian numbers when Clarett was hurt.

If forced to, I can dig up other examples of this.

[Skeeter]

Also. Almost every single one of them starts in the NFL now even though they "sucked" again after Clarett was gone.

I think the back makes the line.


If Emmitt wasn't there, the cowboys line would just have been a bunch of fat slobs who couldn't get off the ball.

[Hulkein]

I hear ya, but on the flipside there are lines that produce amazing backs over and over again.

Terrel Davis, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis, Reuben Droughns.

Now, Portis leaves Denver, goes to the Redskins whose line was subpar, especially with Jan Jansen going down for the year.

Take a look at his average.

Portis
2002 Denver - 273 attempts, 1508 yds, 5.5 average
2003 Denver - 290 attempts, 1591 yds, 5.5 average
2004 Wash - 343 attempts, 1315 yds, 3.8 average

This is a back getting better as he is entering his prime and dropping significantly in production per carry.

[Latrinsorm]

You also have to take into consideration, the Redskins did have Wezas rooting for them. And we know what happens to people who Wezas roots for. :saint:

[Skeeter]

I think the Denver deviation is the fact that they "cheat"

Those cut blocks are nasty, and I don't blame defensive linemen for just getting the fuck out of the way.

[Galleazzo]

Originally posted by Hulkein
I can back up my arguments easily. You said - "If he cant do it where he's at, he's not going to be able to anywhere else." - That is complete BS. There are countless examples in people leaving one team as an average player and then turning in multiple pro-bowl caliber seasons elsewhere.
No shit. I see John Riggins named. So Riggins was a money guy, right? Well the only pro bowl he ever saw was in a Jets uniform. He put up big numbers there and never saw a playoff game before the Skins. Guy only won one Super Bowl and choked the chicken in the 2nd one. But they call him a great back.

So's Martin. Fuckin'A, a lot of guys never make a Super Bowl. Lot of guys never make the playoffs. This ain't fucking hoop where one hot dog racks up 25 pts a game and he's King Shit and gets shoe contracts even if the rest of the team blows chunks and they make the playoffs 10 games under anyway.

Do what Martin's done, you got to be great and durable. Guy might break Smith's record and he's got to slip fast or get hurt to miss it. What the fuck, you think Ted Williams sucked because he never won a World Series? Warren Moon frigging passed for nearly 50,000 yards and got 9 pro bowls and didn't even start in the NFL until he was 28, did he suck because he didn't win a Superbowl? Did Tarkenton suck, or Barry Sanders? Hell, Sanders got bitchslaped in the playoffs most times.

[Skeeter]

Step away from the PCP there big fella.

Just because I agrue that Emmitt is the greatest running back of all time. Or at least the Super Bowl Era, doesn't mean every single other running back sucks.

I loved watching Barry. He was hands down the funnest running back I've ever watched, I would watch Detroit games just to see him run. He was a great running back, so was JB and OJ and Payton, and Curtis Martin. Emmitt wasn't nearly as flashy, he was just better. His stats prove it.


Also. The knock on Barry not having a line. I think Barry made his line look bad. He rarely went where he was supposed to, and almost never ran through the tackles where your line can be most effective. He'd bounce and weave and run around all over the backfield before going forward. No offensive lineman can be expected to keep up with that.

I couldn't varify this, but I *believe* that Barry Sanders has the all time record for being tackled for a loss. For all of those crazy runs where he doubled and tripled back, then broke it for 50 yards, there was 10 where he got stopped for -8, -5, -3 etc. Makes it tough to completely blame his O-Line when you look at his running style.

[Sente]

This is exactly why if I had to vote, I'd put Smith over Sanders.

Moving the chains, picking up first downs, time of possession, give the defense a rest, consistently getting positive yardage and put the team in managable 2nd/3rd down and short yardage situation is winning football.

Sanders was an explosive force, was a threat to score everytime he touched the ball. The cost was the consistency. More towards an all or nothing. He is the all time leader is rushes for a loss (or least I've heard that stat passed along also). So when he wasn't breaking the big one, it would be no gain, -2, oops it is now 3rd and 12. Incompletion, punt. In this situation, the team in more frequently put in 3rd and long situations, more 3 and outs thus losing time of possession and not giving the defense a rest.

Yes, Emmitt played on a better team. However, it was not like he was just along for the ride. He was a major reason why the Cowboys were great. He made everyone around him a better player.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I guess he is retiring...

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=e99b0901-bfbf-4202-a773-98982aea3a6b

[Hulkein]

<<I couldn't varify this, but I *believe* that Barry Sanders has the all time record for being tackled for a loss.>>

Yeah, I've heard that too.

[Stunseed]

Emmit Smith retired in Jacksonville, I think yesterday. Saw live coverage of him crying when he mentioned the Moose.

[Skeeter]

Damn I loved the Moose. Brings a tear to my eye too.

:cry:

[Galleazzo]

Ey, I ain't saying Smith sucks, because he don't come close to sucking. He ain't the greatest of all time because that was Jim Brown, but you want to say #2, I'm down with that.