Elemental and Summoning Lores

[lexbubba]

I have read lots on the importance of demonology and necromancy lores for sorcs, but curious as to the thoughts on elemental or summoning lores. Summoning at 20 ranks for web bolt and elemental lore at 12 ranks for increasing dark catalyst crits? Here are the stats as I was thinking about them (level 58 sorc)


Armor Use..........................| 27
Physical Fitness...................| 60
Arcane Symbols.....................| 60
Magic Item Use.....................| 60
Spell Aiming.......................| 120
Harness Power......................| 58
Elemental Mana Control.............| 60
Spirit Mana Control................| 60
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 12
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 20
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 52
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 33
Perception.........................| 60
Climbing...........................| 20
Swimming...........................| 20
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 42
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 20
Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 58

[Avaia]

You have the thresholds correct. Looks good. Maybe 12 in each of the other Elemental Lores, as points permit.

[Maerit]

Cap first. They mean next to nothing early on unless it's part of your RP. How do you hunt? Your CS seems like it is suffering without being 1x in sorc spells.

[lexbubba]

Cap first. They mean next to nothing early on unless it's part of your RP. How do you hunt? Your CS seems like it is suffering without being 1x in sorc spells.

I am 1x in sorc spells. just not overtraining.

[Maerit]

I completely understand the desire to train the lores. They look like it adds something of value, but the reality is that they are really hurting your training options right now. Overtraining in lores instead of spells is much less useful. You could have 125 and 130 for utility, 10-15 more CS or higher DS from bolstering spells. Instead, you gain 1 tier of crits on the air portion of 719, and some super minimal benefits from all that demon lore. Web bolt, which is not as good as aimed 708 or 709...

You can always try inefficient builds. That's the joy of GS. I'm just trying to understand what your motive is to "gimp" yourself mechanically. I'd recommend dropping back to 1x sorc lore, and having no other lores until after cap. You will be surprised how much power can be gained from over training in spells.

[lexbubba]

I completely understand the desire to train the lores. They look like it adds something of value, but the reality is that they are really hurting your training options right now. Overtraining in lores instead of spells is much less useful. You could have 125 and 130 for utility, 10-15 more CS or higher DS from bolstering spells. Instead, you gain 1 tier of crits on the air portion of 719, and some super minimal benefits from all that demon lore. Web bolt, which is not as good as aimed 708 or 709...

You can always try inefficient builds. That's the joy of GS. I'm just trying to understand what your motive is to "gimp" yourself mechanically. I'd recommend dropping back to 1x sorc lore, and having no other lores until after cap. You will be surprised how much power can be gained from over training in spells.

Good feedback. This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

[Hammibal]

Agreed, I'm a decent amount post cap and I don't have a single elemental lore yet. A higher CS kills things faster/disables them 100% of the time than a crit table jump.

[Maerit]

Just as a side note. Necro lore is the critical lore for sorcerer combat in general. It boosts very powerful combat oriented spells to significant degree.

In order of combat value (my opinion):

#1 711 - Having .66x or higher lore will allow the maximum 7 seconds RT and 35% damage when you ward sufficiently keeping your targets locked down.
#2 716 - Higher charges for this reactive flare and higher chance to activate.
#3 730 - Increases the level you can animate, and the level of the animated critter (never underestimate the power of this spell!!).
#4 735 - Makes it easier to gather necro energy.

The other spells I didn't bother to mention since I rarely use them in combat these days. Though if you're trained in spell aim (another skill I find "nice to have", but there's a decent argument to keep 2x SA) the benefits to 708 and 705 can be fun. Necro ranks for the 711 benefits alone are worth the investment as this spell controls targets better than most other spells in the game (especially since very few enemies are immune to RT lock).

[Allereli]

Summoning lore is great esp for web bolt. Skip the elementals

[Maerit]

Summoning lore is great esp for web bolt. Skip the elementals

Someone's going to have to explain why web bolt is worth so many TPs when you can use 708 or 709...

[nindon]

My personal opinion is that between elemental and spiritual lores, elemental lores are more useful and spiritual lores are more fun. And when sorcerers refer to spiritual lore, they almost certainly mean spiritual summoning lore. Forget about blessing lore until you have 180 ranks of spiritual summoning lore. And forget about religion lore forever.

Regarding elemental lores, I agree that a higher CS is better than the elemental lore benefit to 719. I suggest spending extra TPs to train to 3 ranks in each elemental lore and then spread further ranks evenly among the four lores. In the saved posts (https://gswiki.play.net/Dark_Catalyst_(719)/saved_posts) for 719, Nilven said that benefits start at 3 ranks and begin diminishing at 10 ranks.

For sorcerers, hunting with bolt spells costs more mana than hunting with warding spells. If you are hunting in a group, then bolt spells can be viable at a lower level than if you are hunting alone. Even so, if you buff up with 307, 211, 215 and 513 (save any scrolls you find with those spells!) and if you have a high probability of a demon flare with 713, then you can be awesome until you run out of mana. Grik'tyr demons (preferably imps, since they hold more mana) are best for Balefire in almost every situation.

Web bolt is good because for 9 mana you can cause damage and, possibly, knock down and/or web the target. The damage is pretty good against unarmored or lightly armored targets. It is also useful for griffins and probably other flying creatures. You will not be good at using the warding version of 118 because your spiritual CS will not be high enough.

[Maerit]

Just be wary that you don't prioritize all these lores prior to capping. Flying critters are easy for Sorcerers - just use 711 on them. They're locked in RT. Most targets you can 708 to remove limbs, which will knock them over (leg removed) or remove their ability to attack (right arm removed). The rest you can use 709 to pull down and put into RT, or 703 to stop the entire room from casting spells!

Sorcerers have TONS of control abilities. You don't need lores to get more of them (unless you have RP reasons, then I encourage it!!). The only value Elemental Lores provide is some very minor boosts to offensive spells you will find fewer uses for as you level (especially since 719 has both fire and lightning components making it very difficult to use in some hunting grounds), while offering some fairly minor DS and utility. Personally, since I hunt in Nelemar these days, the only reason I'd want e-lores is for the 25 ranks to e-blade 1x runestaves. That way I can have a 5x flaring runestaff that is disposable when something disarms me (which happens super rarely). I prefer not to deal with the stress of having a nice weapon in disarm areas.

[Allereli]

just use 711 on them.

it is seriously the most boring way to hunt.