Shielded brawler and 3x shield use

[Orthin]

So I am looking to be an effective shielded brawler as a burgal gnome warrior and was looking for input from the community on two things.

I am going 3x shield - do I need to truly worry about doing 1x dodge or do I scrap it and put those points into PT and armor?

As a shielded brawler I am thinking medium or smaller is ideal for the penalties but at low level when first able to and then later is it better to swap to tower and eat the penalty or keep with medium or small? I know it also effects my shield skills (which tower has some pimp ones) but I am curious if the gimp is significant to my MM.

Not sure if this factors in or not but this character is hardcore and I don have any outside aid so survability is critical as it relates to my overall decision as well.

[SpiffyJr]

As far as I know I'm the only capped small race shield/uac user. I've been UAC in some variation since the mid 40's. I also leveled self-spelled (re: no spells) the entire way with the rare exception being Duskruin arenas or things like Grim camps. Here's some things I've found:

MM penalty is very very noticeable. A tower shield with minimum training for plate puts you at a -17 MM which completely negates your masteries and *will* neuter your kill speed. You can offset this somewhat by training heavily in MoC but after trying out towers with two exceptional shields I'm looking to modify my build by either moving to lighter armor or dropping back down to a buckler. I haven't quite decided yet.

3x shield/1x dodge with a small/medium and shielded swiftness gives you an exceptional DS. So much so that, in my opinion, being in plate isn't as important. Hauberk is very good armor for a warrior that is focusing on reducing MM and keeping DS high enough to avoid damage. But what about MBP?!?! Well, you have a better DF in MBP but your AvD also suffers significantly and after redux most hits result in the same crit rank and damage received. You can also use all your accessories in hauberk.

So, for what I would recommend:

* Go with 3x shield and 1x dodge while working towards 2x dodge. People will say it's a waste of TPs but it gives you a significant DS boost that people who run around glowing from countless outside spells don't understand.
* Use a buckler at least until level 50 when you can fully train shielded brawler. At that point reevaluate. I'd stick with buckler/medium for maximizing DS. You get more EBP out of the larger shields but it's better to just not get hit in the first place.
* Get into hauberk/mbp as soon as you can. Hauberk will give you 1 less MM penalty but once fully trained in armor they share the same MM penalty.
* If you plan on casting ever hauberk is good armor until you can get the ranks for minimal hindrance in MBP.
* If you ever acquire nice accessories you want to use them hauberk will suit you fine.
* Tortoise stance rocks - the 20 UAF penalty is pretty small and with a buckler and tortoise you can still hit around 50% block.

Side note: there are a few shield maneuvers that make towers appealing. You have to decide if you want the lower MM and raw DS of small shields vs the maneuvers of a tower (adamantine bulwark, prop up, protective wall).

[Orthin]

Super informative thank you I think I will take your armor and shield advice and rock and roll that way! Appreciate the input!

[DrZaius]

@SpiffyJr : It'd be great if you could post your skills / cmans / shield specializations, just to get a sense of what you prioritize / trained in.

Thanks!
-DrZ

[SpiffyJr]

Sure, currently setup with a tower shield but considering either dropping down to lighter armor (which will influence my cmans) or a buckler (which will influence my shield mans).



Kips, your Shield Specialization training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Tower Shield Focus tfocus 5
Shielded Brawler brawler 5
Prop Up prop 2
Adamantine Bulwark bulwark 3
Deflection Training dtraining 2
Steady Shield steady 2
Guard Mastery gmastery 2
Tortoise Stance tortoise 3
Protective Wall pwall 2
Shield Trample trample 5
Shield Trample Mastery tmastery 2

Available Shield Training Points: 19




Kips, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Focus focus 5
Dirtkick dirtkick 5
Shield Bash sbash 3
Shield Charge scharge 3
Stun Maneuvers stunman 2
Subdual Strike sstrike 3
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Combat Toughness toughness 1
Block Mastery bmastery 3
Cunning Defense cdefense 5
Punch Mastery punchmastery 3
Kick Mastery kmastery 3

[Tenser]

How well does shield trample perform for you as a small race and those CMANs? And is trampling a bunch of monsters as fun as it sounds?

[SpiffyJr]

Actually, trample works fine against what I use it for. 93% or higher against bandits and orc style grims. Using a buckler adds 10 to the penalty so it's less favorable. The CMANs I have are for defense except dirt kick which has no offensive penalty. If (when, most likely) I drop back down to a buckler I won't be using shield trample.

[Orthin]

Thank you for posting up your shield skills spiff!

Def going to go hauberk/buckler.

What small shield skills do you recommend? I ask because I notice your CMANs have bash and charge versus using the shield. I am still low level so I have a shit ton of points but no way to use them because of the skillwall

[SpiffyJr]

Focus, brawler, swiftness, deflection training and mastery, steady shield. Should keep you busy for a while.

[Orthin]

Focus, brawler, swiftness, deflection training and mastery, steady shield. Should keep you busy for a while.

Haha can do!

So do you just store shield points and wait until next available to unload? Sorry to keep pulling you in

[SpiffyJr]

Just pick what you think you'll need the most and spend them as they come up. Deflection training and mastery you can put off until later. Get three ranks.of.focus and brawler asap. Same with swiftness. Pick up steady shield when you have the points free.

[SpiffyJr]

Just wanted to post an update since I swapped back to hauberk/buckler.



Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Focus focus 5
Dirtkick dirtkick 5
Stun Maneuvers stunman 2
Subdual Strike sstrike 3
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Combat Toughness toughness 1
Block Mastery bmastery 3
Evade Mastery emastery 3
Cunning Defense cdefense 5
Punch Mastery punchmastery 3
Kick Mastery kmastery 3




Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Small Shield Focus sfocus 3
Shield Bash bash 3
Shield Swiftness swiftness 3
Shielded Brawler brawler 5
Deflection Training dtraining 2
Deflect the Elements deflect 1
Steady Shield steady 2
Tortoise Stance tortoise 3

Available Shield Training Points: 117


Likely shield candidates are finishing focus, deflection training 3, deflection mastery, and then guard mastery or maybe disarming presence. Maybe shield charge for defense.

Note: a buckler incurs a 15 penalty over tower for Trample (tower: 0, large: -5, medium: -10, small: -15). This makes using trample as a small race impractical. My kill potential, however, skyrocketed and I murder much faster even with 102/tortoise stance on.



A gnomish mugger swings a longsword at you!
AS: +424 vs DS: +415 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +100 = +134
... and hits for 3 points of damage!
Tap to the arm pricks some interest but not much else.

** Your vultite chain hauberk releases a shimmering beam of disintegration at the gnomish mugger! **

... 20 points of damage!
Portions of musculature disappear, revealing bones beneath!
The mugger's longsword falls to the ground.
The gnomish mugger is stunned!


Sample capped bandit hit. Self-spelled - 101, 102, 103, 401, and Symbol of Protection. 5x armor, 4x shield.

[SpiffyJr]

And here's the shield mans I settled on. The only thing up for debate is whether or not I'll drop either disarming presence/tortoise stance for guard mastery 3. I really like guarding people.



Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Small Shield Focus sfocus 3
Shield Bash bash 3
Shield Charge charge 1
Shield Swiftness swiftness 3
Shielded Brawler brawler 5
Deflection Training dtraining 3
Deflection Mastery dmastery 5
Deflect the Elements deflect 1
Steady Shield steady 2
Disarming Presence dpresence 3
Tortoise Stance tortoise 3

Available Shield Training Points: 1

[Orthin]

Awesome! Appreciate all this info!

[SpiffyJr]

Disarming Presence sucks as much as I thought it would so I'm dropping it in favor of guard mastery rank 3.