Pure Bard DS

[nocturnix]

Just wondering if my DS is actually too low.

I use a runestaff. I know its not the max defense, shield/brawl would likely be superior. Normally i min/max but style can trump function in some cases, using a runestaff on my bard is this case. So i accept a (hopefully slightly) lower DS.

Because i'm using a runestaff I wonder if I am getting the max DS bonus with enough magical skills. My DS feels a little low.

This is in defensive, with 401, 406, 414, 430, 503, fortitude song and even spirit guard/small statue.

xx swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +54 vs DS: +351 with AvD: -3 + d100 roll: +48 = -252
A clean miss.

I am wearing 10x, hcp aug chain.

59 Trains. Feel like it should be over 400?

Skills:
xxx (at level 59), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 165 65
Physical Fitness...................| 159 59
Dodging............................| 96 22
Magic Item Use.....................| 126 33
Harness Power......................| 159 59
Elemental Mana Control.............| 86 19
Mental Mana Control................| 160 60
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 161 61
Perception.........................| 146 46
Climbing...........................| 140 40
Swimming...........................| 50 10


Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 34


Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 65

Like level creatures can hit me even in guarded/defensive. Luckily with my new armor (recently added the hcp) they just scratch me. Also, they only ever get a chance to attack if i'm too slow, or get distracted. otherwise i disable them almost immediately.

Still, i want to ensure my DS is max it could be with training.

[audioserf]

Are you in a society? Are your sigils/symbols/signs up?

[Zarston]

I did a quick tally of your magic skills (meaning I did it once so I could be slightly off), and it looks like you have 231 ranks. 231 ranks/59 levels = 3.91 ranks/level. If you mosey on over to the gswiki, you'll see that you get a weapon ranks conversion of between 26 and 35 (leaning towards 35). So your runestaff is providing you with as much defense as if you were .5x in THW, plus a little additional parry. You should definitely expect to be hit in guarded/defensive.

My advice will be to drop some of your magical training and go as close to 2x shield as you can spare. If the runestaff is really important to you rp-wise, you can always go shield/runestaff once you hit 75 ranks of manipulation. It's been done before successfully.

[nocturnix]

COL but I dont keep defensive signs up, i suppose i could. I guess i'm just used to playing pures (wiz/sorc/cleric etc). And all of them have like +100 DS in defensive/guarded compared to my bard without any COL defensive signs. Its a huge difference.

[MrMortimur]

you didnt mention using 1010 or 1019

[audioserf]

I'd say go ahead and run the COL signs, 35 DS and 20 bolt DS ain't nothing to sneeze at.

[Avaia]

You have far too few magic ranks/level to have a very effective Runestaff Defense. You will want at least 8. More is better.

[nocturnix]

You have far too few magic ranks/level to have a very effective Runestaff Defense. You will want at least 8. More is better.

8 per lvl?


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[nocturnix]

from what i can tell i have an avg of 6.4 magical skills per level. So maybe i can bump that up to 8 by training in ...well i guess cheapest would be perception, is that magic? or maybe MIU. HP would be the most useful i think.

[Roblar]

Not perception


Skills that contribute to runestaff defense: Arcane Symbols, Harness Power, Magic Item Use, Spell Aiming, Spell Research, Mana Controls, Lores.

In order to benefit defensively using a rune staff, it is best to have at least eight magical ranks per level. A magical rank can be in any magical skill in the Character Manager, and each skill, regardless of cost, is weighted equally. Eight magical ranks per level is equivalent to 1x training in two-handed weapons and provides defenses as if the user had 10 additional parry ranks. Each additional magical rank per level will increase the caster's effective weapon ranks. To be proficient with a runestaff, it is expected that a typical caster will have 10.5 to 11 magical ranks per level. Provided they are 3 ranks spell research and 1 rank harness power, 4 ranks is perfectly adequate. General all round magic proficiency will result in around 11 ranks, but they aren't needed to be adequate with a runestaff. CS heavy builds will normally have 6-8 ranks and work best with runestaves.


https://gswiki.play.net/Runestaff

[Riltus]

Your character currently has 331 total magic ranks which is 5.6 ranks per level (331/59). This translates to a weapon ranks conversion factor of ~0.75. You need 472 total magic ranks for 8 ranks per level, an additional 141 ranks. How much DEF stance DS would those 141 ranks provide? Not much. Approximately +16 DS. Players generally overvalue the DS benefit of magic ranks per level until they crunch the numbers. There is nothing intrinsically significant about 8 ranks per level. As a matter of fact you don't need any magic ranks to activate runestaff parry DS.

Calculations:

1. Weapon ranks = conversion factor * character level

Character level = 59
331 magic ranks = 5.6 ranks per level = 0.75 conversion factor = (0.75 * 59) = 44 weapon ranks
427 magic ranks = 8 ranks per level = 1.00 conversion factor = (1.00 * 59) = 59 weapon ranks
590 magic ranks = 10 ranks per level = 1.20 conversion factor = (1.20 * 59) = 70 weapon ranks
Defensive stance factor = 0.70

2. DS = weapon ranks * stance factor * 1.5

331 total magic ranks: (44 * 0.70 * 1.5) = +45 DEF stance DS
472 total magic ranks: (59 * 0.70 * 1.5) = +61 DEF stance DS
590 total magic ranks: (70 * 0.70 * 1.5) = +73 DEF stance DS

Note: The above values only reflect DS from magic ranks. They do not include stat bonuses, the 10 phantom weapon ranks, runestaff enchant bonus and the +50 defensive stance bonus.

Mark

[nocturnix]

Your character currently has 331 total magic ranks which is 5.6 ranks per level (331/59). This translates to a weapon ranks conversion factor of ~0.75. You need 472 total magic ranks for 8 ranks per level, an additional 141 ranks. How much DEF stance DS would those 141 ranks provide? Not much. Approximately +16 DS. Players generally overvalue the DS benefit of magic ranks per level until they crunch the numbers. There is nothing intrinsically significant about 8 ranks per level. As a matter of fact you don't need any magic ranks to activate runestaff parry DS.

Calculations:

1. Weapon ranks = conversion factor * character level

Character level = 59
331 magic ranks = 5.6 ranks per level = 0.75 conversion factor = (0.75 * 59) = 44 weapon ranks
427 magic ranks = 8 ranks per level = 1.00 conversion factor = (1.00 * 59) = 59 weapon ranks
590 magic ranks = 10 ranks per level = 1.20 conversion factor = (1.20 * 59) = 70 weapon ranks
Defensive stance factor = 0.70

2. DS = weapon ranks * stance factor * 1.5

331 total magic ranks: (44 * 0.70 * 1.5) = +45 DEF stance DS
472 total magic ranks: (59 * 0.70 * 1.5) = +61 DEF stance DS
590 total magic ranks: (70 * 0.70 * 1.5) = +73 DEF stance DS

Note: The above values only reflect DS from magic ranks. They do not include stat bonuses, the 10 phantom weapon ranks, runestaff enchant bonus and the +50 defensive stance bonus.

Mark

Thanks for the breakdown, that is really helpful. It sounds like actually pumping up magic skills only for the sake of DS is not really worth it then. I started using the defensive signs and that has helped alot, i think im near 400 DS in defensive with my signs up. I just always thought of defensive signs as more of an emergency thing because i was able to get high enough DS with my pures to not even need to use signs ever. But with my bard, I guess I need to incorporate them into every hunt now.

[audioserf]

I have always run all the COL signs on all characters. No reason not to provided you have the mana/spirit to keep them going. It's basically free AS/DS/TD.

[Roiken]

I'm surprised, i have not commented on this thread, but i'm not surprised Zarston has.. do what he says.. That being said.. our bards still run around with a sonic shield sometimes. because the runestaff defense is hard to keep up...

[Roiken]

on a serious note, if you want to learn how to die, you should skills Yakushi... he can tell you how to fuck up a bard # jk Hoy