CMAN training

[Orthin]

So I am going slightly unorthodox in my training and allowing myself to almost 1x CM and 1x armor while only getting 2 spells or when fate rarely shines on me 3 spells and I was curious if the only really viable CMANs it appears for me are going to be Cunning Defense, Disarm, Feint and Movement. I am probably going to just stay with Defense and load it up as much as I can but are there other suggestions which might be better?

Would it be beneficial to do 1 rank across the board and then 2 and so forth?

Just curious.

Not sure if it is necessary but here is my current setup.

Armor Use..........................| 25 5
Combat Maneuvers...................| 30 6
Physical Fitness...................| 35 7
Arcane Symbols.....................| 35 7
Magic Item Use.....................| 35 7
Harness Power......................| 30 6
Elemental Mana Control.............| 35 7
Spirit Mana Control................| 35 7
Perception.........................| 35 7

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 6

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 3

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 8

[Maerit]

You should consider training a weapon skill or shield to avoid the DS issues since you have fewer magical skills trained.

I'm curious why the 1x in armor? Like most magical professions, sorcerers are not good at casting spells when wearing heavy armor. If you aren't training a weapon skill, and still plan to rely on spell casting, once you wear above double leather you will struggle to cast spells effectively. Just going from double leather to leather breastplate is a 2%-5% jump in hindrance. Once you reach brigadine armor, you will fail at least 11% of all spells you cast (it will feel worse though).

Basically, training in armor use will benefit you very little and hinder you significantly. The more physical defensive path for a sorcerer, or any "pure" casting profession, would be to train your shield skills.

[Roiken]

cunning defense and disarm are your best bets ...... by a long shot.... as far as the doing one across the board idea... not really cause even capped out at 101 ranks of cman you can barely afford disarm and cdefense to each be all the way up to rank 5 ... with 1 extra cm point available

[caelric]

I'll post a bit more later having taken a warcerer to cap and beyond, but the key to spell failure is to have a pocket paladin for armored fluidity.

[wetsand]

Why do anything but max CS pre-20? Its going to slow going and nothing really utilizes cmans that early in the game. If your looking for a mutant build I'd do UAC (max brawling, get 1 rank of TWC, max cman, 1x HP, 4 ranks of armor for fulls, and everything else into spells). Once you hit level 19.9 you can switch to your final build.

[khorpulent]

My wizard has 5 ranks of feint and can actually feint most semis and pures at cap. You'd need a weapon skill for that, of course.

[Maerit]

My warmage actually has 4 ranks in dirtkick and it works fine in most situations. I think he has 4 dirtkick and 4 feint, and uses them back to back with 1s RT to stack RT on my opponent then I can start pounding the target to fine dust with UAC.

[caelric]

Disarm and Cunning Defense training is super important for any warmage/warcerer out there, but that last rank of Disarm costs a lot of points that may be better used elsewhere, bothdefensively and as an offensive tool. Dirtkick and feint are nice defensively, as both of those incure RT, which sucks, especially for a warcerer who doesn't have the benefit of haste.

However, don't neglect physical fitness, or perception (not saying you did, looking at your training so far it looks right).

Final however, before 20th level, there is almost no reason for cmans as a warmage/warcerer. The points can be much better spent elsewhere, keeping your MnE and Sorc ranks at level, and occasioanlly pushing your MnS ranks to get 103/107/120. For armor use, stick with a lower set of armor until you decide how much spell failure you can tolerate, and this will depend on whether a weapon or spells are your primary offense. To be honest,m the path of a warcerer is not easy, and doesn't offer much, if any, in the way of benefits over being a pure sorcerer.

[Orthin]

You should consider training a weapon skill or shield to avoid the DS issues since you have fewer magical skills trained.

I'm curious why the 1x in armor? Like most magical professions, sorcerers are not good at casting spells when wearing heavy armor. If you aren't training a weapon skill, and still plan to rely on spell casting, once you wear above double leather you will struggle to cast spells effectively. Just going from double leather to leather breastplate is a 2%-5% jump in hindrance. Once you reach brigadine armor, you will fail at least 11% of all spells you cast (it will feel worse though).

Basically, training in armor use will benefit you very little and hinder you significantly. The more physical defensive path for a sorcerer, or any "pure" casting profession, would be to train your shield skills.

Was going to get LBP since I am used to the himderance on my warmage but I may get shield instead and hang out in a lighter leather

[Orthin]

Why do anything but max CS pre-20? Its going to slow going and nothing really utilizes cmans that early in the game. If your looking for a mutant build I'd do UAC (max brawling, get 1 rank of TWC, max cman, 1x HP, 4 ranks of armor for fulls, and everything else into spells). Once you hit level 19.9 you can switch to your final build.

I'm doing hardcore so I don't want to expose myself early on to getting killed in offensive for weapon skills. I am managing with my current CS I pimped out Wis and Aur and although it can be a little rough at times the CS is managable but I will possibly play around with it a little

[Orthin]

Okay so maybe I'll end up going .5 CMAN and pimp out spells a little and see how that goes. I appreciate all the insights!

[TheKAK]

My sorcerer has used two handed weapons since about level 10. 15 armor ranks for LBP. I don't have any cman ranks. I grasp of grave, then swing. A Sunfist Master, with a katana. I will post his skills after work tomorrow for you to compare and consider, he is 58 now

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[TheKAK]

I really enjoy this "mutant" build of a Sorcerer. I do not claim this build to be perfect by any sense, but it works great for me, and I've really enjoyed hunting with him. With my 20 ranks in armor use, I almost never have hindrance issues from when I do cast


Eraklu (at level 59), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 90 20
Combat Maneuvers...................| 20 4
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 161 61
Physical Fitness...................| 161 61
Arcane Symbols.....................| 90 20
Magic Item Use.....................| 90 20
Harness Power......................| 159 59
Elemental Mana Control.............| 140 40
Spirit Mana Control................| 70 15
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 90 20
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 25 5
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 15 3
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 157 57
Survival...........................| 50 10
Perception.........................| 161 61
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 50 10
First Aid..........................| 145 45

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 46

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 30

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 59

[caelric]

I really enjoy this "mutant" build of a Sorcerer. I do not claim this build to be perfect by any sense, but it works great for me, and I've really enjoyed hunting with him. With my 20 ranks in armor use, I almost never have hindrance issues from when I do cast




A mutant THW swiging sorc is certainly possible (again, I took a sorc to about 2x cap doing exactly that), but it is also nowhere near optimal.

With regards to your skills, you should drop MnS down to 20, using those ranks to increase your MnE, resulting in better AS, DS, and CS from 425/430. Keep MnE as close to level as possible, and same thing with Sorc Base.

The other issue is that you are about at the level where cman attacks against you will become a regularity, so you will want to start training in CMs, to be able to train in CDEF and DISARM for defensive purposes.

What's with the EL: Air, and the SpL:Summoning, as you have no Spell Aim, and those ranks seem to be most useful for unlocking various spell aiming related things (Web Bolt at 20 ranks of Summoning Lore, you are not there yet, and Tonis Bolt at some ranks of air lore, usable if you had imbedded Tonis Bolt wands)? I suspect those training points could be put to better use elsewhere.

[caelric]

Oh, just because, here are my skills



Taakhooshi (at level 100), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 201 101 101
Combat Maneuvers...................| 200 100 100
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 201 101 101
Polearm Weapons....................| 0 0 0
Brawling...........................| 0 0 0
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 0 0 0
Physical Fitness...................| 201 101 101
Arcane Symbols.....................| 260 160 160
Magic Item Use.....................| 302 202 202
Spell Aiming.......................| 302 202 202
Harness Power......................| 200 100 100
Elemental Mana Control.............| 150 50 50
Spirit Mana Control................| 150 50 50
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 150 50 50
Elemental Lore - Earth.............| 58 12 12
Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 58 12 12
Elemental Lore - Water.............| 58 12 12
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 96 22 22
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 160 60 60
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 0 0 0
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 302 202 202
Survival...........................| 201 101 101
Picking Locks......................| 0 0 0
Perception.........................| 201 101 101
Climbing...........................| 140 40 40
Swimming...........................| 140 40 40

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 75 75

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 40 40

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 100 100
Training Points: 5 Phy 0 Mnt (1908 Phy converted to Mnt)