UAC Bards?

[Nosh]

Would anyone who plays a UAC bard mind sharing their SKILLS please?

[Leigo]

bump *curious about uac bards as well

[Viekn]

I've played a lot of UAC characters simply because I really like the UAC mechanics. Without having to resort to macros, etc., I use ;combo and the script automatically does it's thing as far as tiering up and doing what it needs to do. Run in to a critter, type ;combo, bing, bang, boom, critter is dead. UAC also seems to be more potent at lower levels vs. just swinging something, which makes things a bit easier. But obviously if you're comparing it DS wise to swinging a sword and board, you're going to have a harder time. If I'm bringing up a UAC character F2P until a certain level, I've got my main as a wizard who can just spell him up. Otherwise, I've never been shy about just paying for spellups when I need it. I don't know about anyone else, but for me personally I've never had the time to make things "real" by just hanging around waiting for spells and I don't like being one of those people who begs for them. UAC is also pretty great because you don't have to worry about disarm, assuming we're just talking about gloves/boots and not katars, etc. The argument from some people about using UAC on anything other than a rogue/paladin/warrior is that other classes don't have access to the shielded brawler specialization. For those that do, they can hold a shield and do UAC without a MM penalty. Other than that though, I simply love the reduced RT that comes from using UAC, as well as the crits that come with it and the associated messaging. At least with Bards, you can 2x a weapon. On other classes that can only 1x a weapon, using UAC (along with other weapon types) becomes much harder to maintain once you hit level 50+.

[khorpulent]

The argument from some people about using UAC on anything other than a rogue/paladin/warrior is that other classes don't have access to the shielded brawler specialization. For those that do, they can hold a shield and do UAC without a MM penalty.

People actually use shielded brawler? The real argument against using UAC as a non-square is that you don't have access to punch/kick mastery and the sweet MM bonus that comes with them.

And also, you say warrior/paladin/rogue, but what about monks???

[Maerit]

I'll echo Khorpulent's sentiment, that shielded brawler is not that great. No matter how much you train it, you still have a significant MM penalty. Monks have access to the best defensive tool for UAC, and that's 1214 - so any non-ambushing (stealth) style of UAC would benefit from 1214. That spell allows you to parry with your barehands, and disarms targets (at least) 25% of the time if they land a strike on either arm / hand.

The primary strengths of UAC comes from fast attacks with powerful tier-up mechanics. If you want to take advantage of the UCS, you either have RT reduction (1035 / 506), or train heavily into MOC. With MOC you can tier up and strike at the same time (usually just one tier though). Since your bare hands are the lightest weapon in the game, the mstrike recovery is quite low. With enough MOC training a player could land ~8 strikes to a single target with mstrike with a pretty small RT. Monks also use Rolling Krynch Stance to keep their tier ups active as they switch between targets - which is incredibly valuable for open combat UAC.

Similarly, Bards and Wizards can attack in 1s RT with UAC. This allows you to tier up quickly, with shorter RTs between so you start landing really hard strikes faster without the need for MOC. Bards also have the option of using a sonic brawling weapon. The weapon option is usually rejected by other UAC professions because it lowers your MM too much, and splits weighting / flares, but for Bards its actually a useful option. The sonic flares are sick, and the 1s RT means lots of opportunity for flares. The only other UAC fighter that might opt for a weapon in hand is the Paladin, for the benefits that 1625 / 1604 and 1605 bring to the equation. Most everyone else avoids the weapon as it rarely adds value to fighting with UAC.

Training a UAC bard is pretty straightforward. Get Tonis, train enough to maintain Tonis, and then train enough lore for Tonis to reduce your RT by at least 2 seconds (that will take Jab/Punch/Grapple to 1s with Kick at 2s). If you opt to using a sonic weapon, then chose to make Punch your top-tier attack. Kicking is higher DF, but won't activate the sonic flares of your weapon. That will only happen with Jab/Grapple/Punch.

You might also consider a training route that includes ~20 ranks of ambush. If you like, you can 1005 a target, then ambush them with a kick to the head. For this training, you might want 75 ranks of air lore in order for Tonis to have -3 RT, which would make an aimed kick 2s RT. Or, you can try punching them in the head while they're unconscious. For the open aimed attack sytle, I recommend not holding a weapon. You'll want your MM to be as high as possible to magnify the critical of your kick or punch.

It's pretty fun to play UAC, though I don't think anyone would say it's more efficient for a Bard than say a Lance. It's just a bit more interesting / less boring.

[Fortybox]

I'll echo Khorpulent's sentiment, that shielded brawler is not that great. No matter how much you train it, you still have a significant MM penalty. Monks have access to the best defensive tool for UAC, and that's 1214 - so any non-ambushing (stealth) style of UAC would benefit from 1214. That spell allows you to parry with your barehands, and disarms targets (at least) 25% of the time if they land a strike on either arm / hand.

The primary strengths of UAC comes from fast attacks with powerful tier-up mechanics. If you want to take advantage of the UCS, you either have RT reduction (1035 / 506), or train heavily into MOC. With MOC you can tier up and strike at the same time (usually just one tier though). Since your bare hands are the lightest weapon in the game, the mstrike recovery is quite low. With enough MOC training a player could land ~8 strikes to a single target with mstrike with a pretty small RT. Monks also use Rolling Krynch Stance to keep their tier ups active as they switch between targets - which is incredibly valuable for open combat UAC.

Similarly, Bards and Wizards can attack in 1s RT with UAC. This allows you to tier up quickly, with shorter RTs between so you start landing really hard strikes faster without the need for MOC. Bards also have the option of using a sonic brawling weapon. The weapon option is usually rejected by other UAC professions because it lowers your MM too much, and splits weighting / flares, but for Bards its actually a useful option. The sonic flares are sick, and the 1s RT means lots of opportunity for flares. The only other UAC fighter that might opt for a weapon in hand is the Paladin, for the benefits that 1625 / 1604 and 1605 bring to the equation. Most everyone else avoids the weapon as it rarely adds value to fighting with UAC.

Training a UAC bard is pretty straightforward. Get Tonis, train enough to maintain Tonis, and then train enough lore for Tonis to reduce your RT by at least 2 seconds (that will take Jab/Punch/Grapple to 1s with Kick at 2s). If you opt to using a sonic weapon, then chose to make Punch your top-tier attack. Kicking is higher DF, but won't activate the sonic flares of your weapon. That will only happen with Jab/Grapple/Punch.

You might also consider a training route that includes ~20 ranks of ambush. If you like, you can 1005 a target, then ambush them with a kick to the head. For this training, you might want 75 ranks of air lore in order for Tonis to have -3 RT, which would make an aimed kick 2s RT. Or, you can try punching them in the head while they're unconscious. For the open aimed attack sytle, I recommend not holding a weapon. You'll want your MM to be as high as possible to magnify the critical of your kick or punch.

It's pretty fun to play UAC, though I don't think anyone would say it's more efficient for a Bard than say a Lance. It's just a bit more interesting / less boring.

I think it's better than a lance build. You can train in both MOC and in RT reduction. With 1035 plus MOC, the bard can spam attack. Add a sonic weapon plus ensorcell and you have a very strong build.

[Maerit]

I think it's better than a lance build. You can train in both MOC and in RT reduction. With 1035 plus MOC, the bard can spam attack. Add a sonic weapon plus ensorcell and you have a very strong build.

Someone would say it is then! Sounds like heavy post-cap training though... Have you ever tried a polearm bard with ambush training? I hear they take out eyes pretty well with low RTs, but haven't capped a bard to attempt the training plan.

[khorpulent]

Ambushing with a lance isn't terribly accurate. My warrior could successfully hit a creature's head maybe 60-70% of the time with a lance, and that was with 2x cm. It's probably doable with a spear or something, though.

[Gelston]

Ambushing with a lance isn't terribly accurate. My warrior could successfully hit a creature's head maybe 60-70% of the time with a lance, and that was with 2x cm. It's probably doable with a spear or something, though.

Did you have any ambush skill? Testing has shown that 2x CM and 30 ranks of ambush had a 20% higher accuracy rating than 2x CM and no ambush

[SpiffyJr]

Shielded brawler with a small shield costs me 5MM but gives me almost 100 DS, 50% block rate (mastery, tortoise), and all the defensive shield manuevers that go with it. Then there's the +15 bonus to CvA from shield focus and ensorcell. Also, my shield is adamantine so it disarms similar to 1214 but instead of partying arrows I send them back to whoever tried to shoot me.

If that's not great I'd like to know what your definition of great is.

[Maerit]

Shielded brawler with a small shield costs me 5MM but gives me almost 100 DS, 50% block rate (mastery, tortoise), and all the defensive shield manuevers that go with it. Then there's the +15 bonus to CvA from shield focus and ensorcell. Also, my shield is adamantine so it disarms similar to 1214 but instead of partying arrows I send them back to whoever tried to shoot me.

If that's not great I'd like to know what your definition of great is.

You might lose more MM than 5 based on the math on the wiki (just may need to check that math), but if you're trained to 3x in shield use with the shield mastery, then maybe. Also, it's sort of a moot point in this thread because not only can bards not train in all the fancy shield maneuvers, they can't train shielded brawler either. Shielded Brawler was brought up as an argument that only Rogues/Paladins/Warriors benefit from UAC because they're the only professions that can use Shielded Brawler - which is ultimately false.

The only people who benefit from Shielded Brawler are open UAC fighters that can train shield use sufficiently to master all the various mitigating skills. Which is just warriors, and maybe paladins (though 2x in shield use limits how much a paladin can mitigate the MM penalty).

[SpiffyJr]

You might lose more MM than 5 based on the math on the wiki (just may need to check that math), but if you're trained to 3x in shield use with the shield mastery, then maybe. Also, it's sort of a moot point in this thread because not only can bards not train in all the fancy shield maneuvers, they can't train shielded brawler either. Shielded Brawler was brought up as an argument that only Rogues/Paladins/Warriors benefit from UAC because they're the only professions that can use Shielded Brawler - which is ultimately false.

The only people who benefit from Shielded Brawler are open UAC fighters that can train shield use sufficiently to master all the various mitigating skills. Which is just warriors, and maybe paladins (though 2x in shield use limits how much a paladin can mitigate the MM penalty).

I didn't want UAC folk stumbling on this and getting the wrong impression that shielded brawler is bad. It's quite amazing. Less so for large shields but exceptionally so for small/medium ones.

[rolfard]

My rogue sports a small shield in full plate and shielded brawler and is amazing

[Aluvius]

The UAC article on the wiki says that 2x shield use training gives maximum reduction of the MM penalty and going over that does not provide any more benefit.

[SpiffyJr]

My rogue sports a small shield in full plate and shielded brawler and is amazing

Same, and I'm working towards the 280 armor ranks for maximim mm reduction. I do wear hauberk occasionally but full plate is awesome too.

[SpiffyJr]

The UAC article on the wiki says that 2x shield use training gives maximum reduction of the MM penalty and going over that does not provide any more benefit.

This is correct, unfortunately.

[Endlin]

I'd like to see what UAC bard training should look like. I know shit about UAC. Wasn't around when it got released and haven't tried it.

[Taernath]

Just replace your weapon training with brawling, and bam, you're a UAC bard.

Roll up a F2P monk and try it out. It's kind of fun, at least at lower levels. You're able to buzzsaw through enemies pretty quickly.

[Zarston]

Rough outline off of the top of my head

Always at least: 2x brawling, 1x physical fitness, 1x perception, 1x harness power, 1x spell research

As TPs allow: 1x -> 60 ranks armor use, 0.5x-> 1x combat maneuvers, 1 rank ->0.5x twc, 0 -> 1x dodging, 1x -> 24 ranks Mental Mana Control, 0 -> 1x mental lore, telepathy, more spell research.

Later in life: 75 ranks Air Lore.