New Rogue Question

[Scisco]

After playing around with a few different ideas - I have decided to try an archery rogue (sniping). Likely a halfling, both for the hiding bonus and for RP reasons. Any advice I should keep in mind for either stat placement or training in general? Especially welcome: any advice on what I can do to not have a billion second RT. I am assuming all I can really do is STR enhancives ASAP, but if anyone has any helpful tricks I would welcome it. I've been reading through the Art of the Bow as well.

[DrZaius]

You are in a bit of a bind worrying about RT from using a bow and playing a halfling. They aren't mutually exclusive, but they are difficult to manage. Having lots of bonuses to your "AS" stats helps, however. Do you have access to outside spells? 509 can be a lifesaver in that it essentially cancels out your pitiful strength.

So Bows have a "best case" RT of 3 seconds. Aiming adds +1 RT, hiding adds +1 RT.

Let's say your little halfling has a strength of 100. That gives you a 10 strength bonus, -1 RT. With a short bow (Base RT 5 seconds), aiming from hiding puts you at 6 RT (5, -1 from your strength, +2 from aiming from hiding).

Is that manageable for you? Can you live with that level of RT, knowing you can (and will) fall out of hiding when aiming? With 509 up, your RT drops to 5. Using either a composite or a long bow will be more effective, at the expense of adding +1 RT each time you 'rank up' your bow base.

You have the advantage of NOT needing to train CM, except for specific CMs you want (Vanish, probably). So that can save you a lot of points initially.

Quick & dirty stats:
STR 95
CON 62
DEX S 49
AGL P 30
DIS 77
AUR M 82
LOG 77
INT 62
WIS M 70
INF 56

That gives you 100 strength at 100. I assume you are going to move your stats around pre-20 to make your life easier, and then "lock them in" at 20. You can also tank your influence to raise Agility - that may not be a terrible idea to get more PTP.

That gives you 44/42 TPs at level 0.

At level 20, you can afford....
Armor Use 30 (1.4X)
Ranged Weapons 42 (2.0X)
Ambush 42 (2.0X)
Physical Fitness 21 (1.0X)
Dodging 42 (2.0X)
Climbing 10 (0.5X)
Swimming 10 (0.5X)
Disarm Traps 42 (2.0X)
Picking Locks 42 (2.0X)
Stalking and Hiding 63 (3.0X)
Perception 42 (2.0X)
First Aid 21 (1.0X)
Survival 21 (1.0X)
Arcane Symbols 10 (0.5X)
Harness Power 9 (0.4X)

I got you 30 ranks of armor for Brig, which will be fine for a long time. The HP is just "what points do you have left over", since some of the societies require mana to function. 10 AS is to make sure you don't blow yourself up picking boxes.

I'd be curious for other people's thoughts, but that's what I'd recommend from the get-go. I'd also STRONGLY advocate for picking a different race - you are adding +1.5 seconds of RT (rounded down) compared to a 'base' race. A giantman would have 3 seconds lower RT in comparison.

[Scisco]

Hmm - thank you. I had wondered about other races, but it seems like I either have lots of dex to boost ranged AS (but screwed on str for RT) or lots of str to lower RT (but really low dex so screws AS). I know any stat issue can technically be compensated for in the long run...but I don't want to end up with something that is such a pain in the short run that I can't stand playing it.

Is it possible to shoot a bow and stay hidden (I want to say there is a CM for that, or maybe it was a Rogue guild skill?) - but I don't know if that is one of those things that just won't happen until you are in your later years or if that is possible to do early on. I certainly wouldn't mind having the strength of a giantman for example, but if the penalties to hiding are so severe that I'll never be able to *stay* hidden then I seems counterproductive since eventually I would like this to be a character that essentially lives in the shadows.

[DrZaius]

Hmm - thank you. I had wondered about other races, but it seems like I either have lots of dex to boost ranged AS (but screwed on str for RT) or lots of str to lower RT (but really low dex so screws AS). I know any stat issue can technically be compensated for in the long run...but I don't want to end up with something that is such a pain in the short run that I can't stand playing it.

Is it possible to shoot a bow and stay hidden (I want to say there is a CM for that, or maybe it was a Rogue guild skill?) - but I don't know if that is one of those things that just won't happen until you are in your later years or if that is possible to do early on. I certainly wouldn't mind having the strength of a giantman for example, but if the penalties to hiding are so severe that I'll never be able to *stay* hidden then I seems counterproductive since eventually I would like this to be a character that essentially lives in the shadows.

It is possible to stay hidden. However, at lower training levels you are more likely to "fall out" of hiding once you fire. If you are approaching single targets this isn't necessarily a problem, since your shot when off. Presumably, you hit them and they are stunned. However, if there are multiple creatures in the room it becomes more problematic.

In another thread someone suggested a mechanical crossbow (they are expensive, but have a "flat" cocking RT that isn't dependent on your strength). I think that would be a good option for a halfling rogues that would be the best of both worlds, if you have the ability to afford it.

I am not well versed in the mechanics of which races get a bonus / penalty to hiding. I think it's fair to assume halflings hide better than giantmen. However, I think it probably makes a bigger difference if you are 2x in hiding or 3x. The racial differences not mattering that much if you are able to cap out your hiding skill, is my point. I would avoid giantmen for rogues more due to the fact that they have poor scores in the other stats that are important to rogues.

[Scisco]

I am beginning to think I might be better off with a Dark Elf, no strength negative and still decent bonuses to dex/agi. When sniping, will the system automatically check to keep you hidden - or does that only happen when you gain the silent strike cm?

[DrZaius]

I am beginning to think I might be better off with a Dark Elf, no strength negative and still decent bonuses to dex/agi. When sniping, will the system automatically check to keep you hidden - or does that only happen when you gain the silent strike cm?

When sniping, the default is that you will remain hidden. However, there is a risk you will fail to remain hidden, and "fall out of" hiding after you fire. This is obviously heavily influenced by your hiding skill. As context, my level 15 ranger will remain hidden for 3-4 shots, but then fall out on the 5th (to give you a ballpark estimate). Once you reach level 30-40 it's possible to remain hidden indefinitely (although there's always a risk you will be detected).

[Scisco]

When sniping, the default is that you will remain hidden. However, there is a risk you will fail to remain hidden, and "fall out of" hiding after you fire. This is obviously heavily influenced by your hiding skill. As context, my level 15 ranger will remain hidden for 3-4 shots, but then fall out on the 5th (to give you a ballpark estimate). Once you reach level 30-40 it's possible to remain hidden indefinitely (although there's always a risk you will be detected).

Ok, thanks. Since you have a ranger - a question. I was looking at rouge vs ranger for sniping. It seems like rogue would be a better bet (cheaper hiding, perception etc) but rangers get the lovely spells that boost hiding. Any idea if they end up evening out? For example a rogue trained 3x in hiding versus a ranger trained say 2x but with natural colors on.. does it end up about the same in the end? Because if all else is equal, I will stick with the ability to pick my own boxes lol, but if the spells make a big enough difference I wouldn't mind the animal companion. (clearly I just need to make both heh)

[DrZaius]

Rogues have much better cmans than rangers. They can also pick their own boxes; which is a huge financial boost. Rangers get 601, 608 (instant hide and +30 AS), and 617 (sneaking, making it very hard to find you). They also get 606, which is a +10 strength bonus. 610 also gives you a room knockdown which is handy for lowering DS. I make a lot of money from skinning / herb bounties (603/604). It probably washes out evenly, since I have to pay to get my boxes opened.

I've played both; both are excellent snipers. Rogues have slightly more versatility in that you have a Guild, better CMANs, and can open boxes. Rangers are probably slightly better hiders outdoors, but don't have a guild.

I'd say both are the best choices for a sniper build. It's up to you if you have a preference for what would be more fun for you.

[Scisco]

Rogues have much better cmans than rangers. They can also pick their own boxes; which is a huge financial boost. Rangers get 601, 608 (instant hide and +30 AS), and 617 (sneaking, making it very hard to find you). They also get 606, which is a +10 strength bonus. 610 also gives you a room knockdown which is handy for lowering DS. I make a lot of money from skinning / herb bounties (603/604). It probably washes out evenly, since I have to pay to get my boxes opened.

I've played both; both are excellent snipers. Rogues have slightly more versatility in that you have a Guild, better CMANs, and can open boxes. Rangers are probably slightly better hiders outdoors, but don't have a guild.

I'd say both are the best choices for a sniper build. It's up to you if you have a preference for what would be more fun for you.

Thank you! That helps a lot!

[Versin]

Get vanish, it is maybe the best cman in the game, and essential for sniping.

[Velfi]

And mobility. If you can learn mobility, you should learn mobility.