Official: The State of Fusion Update

[Fallen]

As previously announced on 10/06/2016, the Fusion item system will be updated with a number of changes (see below for the recap). These changes will be released this Saturday (12/16/2017). If you want to pry out any orbs or recharge your fusion equipment under the current system, please do so by Friday 12/15/2017 23:59, in-game time.

As an addendum to the previously announced changes, the enhancive item enchanting/ensorcelling penalty will be based upon the number of orb slots that the fusion item carries (rather than its currently orbed enhancive properties), so it will no longer be necessary to pry out the orbs while the item is being upgraded.

Coase



Fusion will be separated into "old style" and "new style."

Old-style Fusion

Currently "old-style" has a chance to lose potency if pried too often, and will shatter when the bonus becomes 0. Moving forward, old-style orbs, when damaged, will become new-style orbs. This will result in the removal of the shattering chance (complete destruction of orbs). Instead pried-out orbs can be damaged. Damage chance of 5% when pried. Special merchant services will exist to allow for risk-free extraction in exchange for a fee.

New-style Fusion

New-style fusion will never degrade their potency when pried from fusion, but will degrade at a rate of 4% a month (real time) to a maximum degradation of 50%. For example, +10 would lose 0.4 bonus points per month (becoming effective only when a full -1 value is reached, so only after 3 months in the case of the +10 item would any degradation of the bonus actually occur). It would take 13 months to reach max degradation in most cases. Values of 1 would round down to 0.

New-style fusion orbs can be refurbished to full base bonus as a future merchant option.

Prying new-style orbs will have a chance to damage the orb, similar to old-style. When damaged it will uncap the max degradation (i.e. can degrade to zero in all cases). Further damage would increase degradation rate by 1% per month per damage cycle.

Fusion Recharging - Both Styles

Fusion items will cost 125% the value in BPs to recharge, or 150% in silvers (during that time of the year).


This message was originally posted in Game Design Discussions, Fusion. To discuss the above, follow the link below.

http://forums.play.net/forums/19/213/3284/view/360
.

[Wrathbringer]

the fusion change sucks. Glad I got out of fusion before this finally happened with a whole 3 days notice.

[audioserf]

Yeah. It doesn't seem like it's worth bothering with to anyone but the most dedicated; if you want the absolute highest AS or CS (for example), you're going to jump through these new hoops to do it and maintain it.

[Maerit]

Though, if you have old-style orbs already slotted, you can continue to recharge them normally - no?

[Wrathbringer]

Though, if you have old-style orbs already slotted, you can continue to recharge them normally - no?

At the new cost, yes.

[Maerit]

At the new cost, yes.

My fusion armor costs too much BPs to bother with that. I just charge it up with simucoin potions, which are subjectively less expensive.

Though, if I were good at micromanagement, I suppose it would be more cost-effective to use the rikelle scripts on the armor to turn it into a shirt, thus ending the use of enhancive charges after each hunt. At which point, spending BPs would probably be more cost-effective since they are not time limited. I'm just lazy...

[Wrathbringer]

My fusion armor costs too much BPs to bother with that. I just charge it up with simucoin potions, which are subjectively less expensive.

Though, if I were good at micromanagement, I suppose it would be more cost-effective to use the rikelle scripts on the armor to turn it into a shirt, thus ending the use of enhancive charges after each hunt. At which point, spending BPs would probably be more cost-effective since they are not time limited. I'm just lazy...

the enhancive pausers are cheap enough

[Jhynnifer]

the enhancive pausers are cheap enough

And you get a bunch via boost. I think I have 400+ right now and haven't redeemed all of mine.

[AnOrdim]

Lol, fushion shaman will be once every other year and spinner service for 25 people, like the WPS changes to "more common!" and "Any merchant can do it*!"


*as long as its 1 person for less than 2 points on any single weapon

Just more nerfing of the game to stretch out more microtransactions

[Tenser]

Lol, fushion shaman will be once every other year and spinner service for 25 people, like the WPS changes to "more common!" and "Any merchant can do it*!"


*as long as its 1 person for less than 2 points on any single weapon

Just more nerfing of the game to stretch out more microtransactions

I had the same thought Ordim.

[Wrathbringer]

Lol, fushion shaman will be once every other year and spinner service for 25 people, like the WPS changes to "more common!" and "Any merchant can do it*!"


*as long as its 1 person for less than 2 points on any single weapon

Just more nerfing of the game to stretch out more microtransactions

Don't need the fusion shaman when no one wants the crappy deteriorating orbs he makes.

[AnOrdim]

If the fusion shaman was always around, the initial cost was increased 3x (its dirt cheap as is, based on EG 2016 prices) and you got an orb that was 1.5 times stronger than what you put in but it was new style, that would be good.

But this is what they do, they half ass something because another part isnt finished and you either get the second part months later (WPS/enchanting changes) or you never get it and you end up with a stupidly nerfed product. Will they pull out the other half of this change ?! Tune in next year (2019) to find out!

[Maerit]

The intent behind this change was so they could start allowing more fusion options than what's available currently. Things like being able to add fusion slots to gear, so you could upgrade a 2-slot to a 3-slot, and then also making new enhancives options that don't exist.

While the change to existing system is a direct nerf, there is still a hope that this will allow for some interesting improvements.

[audioserf]

The "nerf now, buff later" shit is really poor planning, though.

[subzero]

The intent behind this change was so they could start allowing more fusion options than what's available currently. Things like being able to add fusion slots to gear, so you could upgrade a 2-slot to a 3-slot, and then also making new enhancives options that don't exist.

While the change to existing system is a direct nerf, there is still a hope that this will allow for some interesting improvements.

Available in 2020 at your nearest paid event!


The "nerf now, buff later" shit is really poor planning, though.

That's how they do things. Nothing new here.

[Fallen]

The automatic "loose in the socket" mechanism is going away. Once an orb is inserted, the only way to get it out is to either take the risk of prying it out or pay for a professional orb removal. If you do choose to pry it out, any time you pry an orb of any type there is a 5% damage type.

You will be able to ANALYZE your orbs to find out what tier they are and how much (if any) damage they've sustained. For reference, "old-style" will be called Tier 3, "new-style" will be called Tier 2, and Tier 1 will be orbs that degrade all the way to zero.

Coase

[gilchristr]

"The intent behind this change was so they could start allowing more fusion options than what's available currently. "

You mean the stated intent behind this case was so they could start allowing more fusion options than what's current available.

There is usually multiple intents behind an action, not just one. I think they are cherry picking the intent that has the best optics, and clearly you bought it hook line an sinker.

Even if the intent was noble (as you proposed), there is that phrase about the path to hell being paved with good intentions or some such (meaning who cares what the intentions is, more relevant is what system we are left which, which others noted is going to kind of suck).

[gilchristr]

I would say the part of this announcement that is the most disappointing is the removal of the loose in the socket mechanic.

We knew about the other poopoo already.

[Fallen]

Prying out an orb takes no RT. If you're not sure pry out all your orbs before Saturday and then think about it afterwards. The damage check occurs upon removal, not insertion, so you will be able to re-add any orbs you pull at no risk if you need more time to think.

The location of the orb does not matter, it is simply a straight-line depreciation of bonus over a set time line.

Coase

[Fallen]

At this point, it seems like the fusion shaman should be permanently available in some capacity. For festivals, they can offer the services which improve on your now far less durable orbs.

[Hedrik]

"The intent behind this change was so they could start allowing more fusion options than what's available currently. "

You mean the stated intent behind this case was so they could start allowing more fusion options than what's current available.

There is usually multiple intents behind an action, not just one. I think they are cherry picking the intent that has the best optics, and clearly you bought it hook line an sinker.

Even if the intent was noble (as you proposed), there is that phrase about the path to hell being paved with good intentions or some such (meaning who cares what the intentions is, more relevant is what system we are left which, which others noted is going to kind of suck).

Hit the nail on the head. This mechanic change smells more about monetizing an aspect of the game by introducing merchant "x+y" to maintain enhancive bonuses, which I'm sure they'll find a way to automate and profit from Fair play to them as a business decision.

[Archigeek]

Suddenly happy my only fusion gear is a skinning knife.

[zephyrii]

This takes the cake:


Prying out an orb takes no RT. If you're not sure pry out all your orbs before Saturday and then think about it afterwards. The damage check occurs upon removal, not insertion, so you will be able to re-add any orbs you pull at no risk if you need more time to think.

The location of the orb does not matter, it is simply a straight-line depreciation of bonus over a set time line.

Coase"

So keeping it stored in your locker and a year later you get a crappy 50% orb...that's just inane

[Ososis]

Vote with your pocketbook. Never attend a fusion merch; never buy fusion SIMUCOIN items. They'll get the message. Apparently Wyrom works "off the numbers" which is completely inane and foolish (EA used numbers...) for something so social and fluid as video games, especially a tiny MMO where everyone essentially knows each other. But we'll see where this goes.

Suck a dick, shit bag. :)

[Roblar]

This takes the cake:



So keeping it stored in your locker and a year later you get a crappy 50% orb...that's just inane

No, old style orbs (which is everything in game right now) won’t worsen in your locker or at all, unless you get hit with a fumble (opting not to use a specific merchant if you need to remove) when removing an orb.

[Roblar]

New orbs won’t be very attractive, but no one has one and is suffering a loss so they’ll get it cheap knowing it is a short lived bonus (for the most part unless another service done).

It!s kind of like perm and temp weight/padding but for enhancive with an ability to restore.

[Fallen]

The only way that Tier 3 ("old-style") orbs gain Tier 2 ("new-style") functionality is if they are damaged. Otherwise, there are no auto-conversions or anything like that. Tier 3 orbs are still a valid and recognized part of the fusion system, but they simply won't be released via the Fusion Sanctum extractions anymore.

Coase
.

[Fallen]

>How does this system work with +Spirit or +Spirit Regen? Lets say you have +1 to MAX SPIRIT, or +1 to Spirit Regeneration. How could that ever degrade over time? I would assume those items could never change over time?

As noted in the announcement recap, orbs with a starting bonus of 1 round down to zero (at 50%, which is fully degraded T2).

>How readily available will orb refurbishment be? Are we talking specialty merchants with limited releases or is it more like enchant unlocking where any merchant doing GALD is likely to be able to do it if asked?

Specialty merchant with limited releases.

>Will there be services (rare I imagine) that allow upgrading T2 orbs to T3? Is this something you're even considering?

This would be the equivalent of an auction level service.

>Any thoughts regarding allowing the use of Premium Points to refurbish fusion orbs?

Its unlikely to occur.

>Any thoughts on any automated systems for refurbishing T2 orbs (for example, high cost bounty points)?

Maybe, but its unlikely to occur in the near term.

>Will fusion orb creation (T2) from enhancive items be an automated service?

Yes, extracting orbs from items with the fusion shaman was and remains an automated service.

Coase

[zephyrii]

No, old style orbs (which is everything in game right now) won’t worsen in your locker or at all, unless you get hit with a fumble (opting not to use a specific merchant if you need to remove) when removing an orb.

Yeah we know that. The new style fusion orbs however will degrade in your locker.

[Fallen]

>With the diminished state of fusion, is there any chance that the fusion shaman could be available in some manner of permanent capacity? The services to restore the orbs could still be locked behind festivals.

For all the orbs that currently exist, the main appreciable downtweak is a slightly higher recharge cost (which isn't a factor at all for those that use recharge potions rather than bounty points) and the fact that it is harder to swap orbs around at will. The current functionality of the items is otherwise undiminished. Extraction will remain a limited access service, but the door remains open for the distribution of orbs in a different manner though.

>So the price was already increased last year, which players noticed, and you're trying to raise the price yet again from the already increased base.

Oh, it looks like that change was already rolled in. So, no, the only effective change will be PRYing, then, as the recharge cost increase is already live.

Coase

[Fallen]

I'm confused about Coase's response. Did old style fusion orbs lose their bonus over time?

[Wrathbringer]

I'm confused about Coase's response. Did old style fusion orbs lose their bonus over time?

No.

[Fallen]

No.

And the new ones do, correct? That is a substantial diminishing of their worth. Players do not hold anywhere near the same value for items which lose their properties over time.

[Imperarx]

Yes, but he's only talking about the old style orbs, which are not becoming new style orbs unless you damage them.

[Fallen]

The previously announced fusion changes have now been released. These include:

Fusion orbs have been separated into three tiers (T1, T2, and T3). All currently existing orbs are T3.

T3 ("old-style" fusion orbs)

T3 orbs do not decay their enhancive bonus. T3 orbs, when damaged due to PRYing, will gain the functionality of T2 orbs. The net result is that the old shattering chance (complete destruction of orbs) and degradation of bonus has been removed. Instead pried-out orbs can be damaged. Damage chance of 5% when pried. Special merchant services will exist to allow for risk-free pries in exchange for a fee.

T2 ("new-style" fusion)

T2 orbs will degrade their enhancive bonus at a rate of 4% a month (real time) to a maximum degradation of 50%. For example, +10 would lose 0.4 bonus points per month (becoming effective only when a full -1 value is reached, so only after 3 months in the case of the +10 item would any degradation of the bonus actually occur). It would take 13 months to reach max degradation in most cases. Values of 1 would round down to 0.

T2 fusion orbs can be refurbished to full base bonus as a future merchant option.

Prying T2 orbs will have a chance to damage the orb, similar to T3. When damaged, a T2 orb will gain the functionality of a T1 orb (which uncaps the maximum degradation of the enhancive bonus all the way to zero). Further damage would increase degradation rate by 1% per month per damage cycle.

Fusion Enchanting and Ensorcelling

The enhancive item enchanting/ensorcelling penalty is now based upon the number of orb slots that the fusion item carries (rather than its currently orbed enhancive properties), so it will no longer be necessary to pry out the orbs while the item is being upgraded.

Coase

This message was originally posted in Game Design Discussions, Fusion. To discuss the above, follow the link below.

http://forums.play.net/forums/19/213/3284/view/395

[Fallen]

Recent updates to the Fusion Arms system included normalizing the difficulty of enchanting Fusion Arms gear. Given the long-term nature of Enchant Item (925) projects, we have updated the system to ignore this difficulty adjustment for projects started before the release of these changes. This should all be transparent to players, but the change should be reflected in the messaging shown when the difficulty of your project is assessed via a cast of spell 925.

I have reviewed logs for all enchanting attempts performed since the release of the difficulty adjustment on 12/16/2017 and found no evidence of any failures on Fusion Arms gear.

--
Naos

This message was originally posted in Game Design Discussions, Fusion. To discuss the above, follow the link below.

http://forums.play.net/forums/19/213/3284/view/402
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[Fallen]

Regarding enchanting, it was previously the case that fusion items could entirely bypass the entire enhancive item penalty that applies toward enchant/ensorcell attempts with zero risk due to how the PRY mechanic used to work (riskless pries after a week or so). Unfortunately, fusion items are entirely about -being- enhancive items and they should have had the same penalties as equivalent enhancive items. The fact that they did not was quite a serious design oversight and it needed to be fixed.

It should be noted that T2 orbs degrade to half their base value and then stop there. Once it hits 50%, that's its actual permanent bonus. If you orb an item, we want to make sure that you (or someone) actually wants to make use of it in a fusion item right away, and not speculatively. We could have made all exactrations just extract half the bonus instead, but chose to allow players to have the opportunity to have some extra bonus for a year (which is a fair length of time), provided that it is actively being used. Refurbishments are an option, but its not really meant to be an upkeep service, but an actual upgrade service. A T2 orb extraction is an extraction to 50% of the bonus value being extracted, with a temporary bonus on top if it.

The reason why we needed to change how extractions worked is because it was becoming clear that players were increasingly seeing "vanilla" enhancive items as mere delivery vehicles for orbs rather than being actual items in their own right. Things like worn location, crumbly status, maximum charges, alternative item functions, weight, and so on are all properties of items that we try to vary to create items that provide interesting choices and character building "puzzles" and options. The ability to relatively trivially negate all those other properties to extract one property at its full value was a serious design flaw in fusion that needed to be fixed.

Duskruin put a lot of enhancive items out (and so does the treasure system), but the reason they can do so is because you often need to stretch a bit (or a lot) to actually use the items in their intended form. That is an intended part of the entire inventory system. If, instead, all those items' enhancive propertiers are just harvest-able to place in a single optimized item, then that is quite a big unintended bypass of most of the inventory system. Fusion extactions, as previously handled, were not sustainable going foward, unfortunately.

Coase

[AnOrdim]

[/FONT][/COLOR]
God forbid they come up with some imaginative instead of nerfs. Truely creating and managing something new is so much more amazingly harder than just "Nerf! Big number get smaller!" But I imagine this is what Simutronics is paying them for, to use as little effort as possible.

https://youtu.be/BkgMbU-we1o

[Fortybox]

God forbid they come up with some imaginative instead of nerfs. Truely creating and managing something new is so much more amazingly harder than just "Nerf! Big number get smaller!" But I imagine this is what Simutronics is paying them for, to use as little effort as possible.

https://youtu.be/BkgMbU-we1o

https://media0.giphy.com/media/nFn51VmBlX6W4/giphy.gif

[BigWorm]

The reason why we needed to change how extractions worked is because it was becoming clear that players were increasingly seeing "vanilla" enhancive items as mere delivery vehicles for orbs rather than being actual items in their own right. Things like worn location, crumbly status, maximum charges, alternative item functions, weight, and so on are all properties of items that we try to vary to create items that provide interesting choices and character building "puzzles" and options. The ability to relatively trivially negate all those other properties to extract one property at its full value was a serious design flaw in fusion that needed to be fixed.

The vast majority of these "vanilla" enhancive items were basically worthless before fusion. Adding all of these additional complicated restrictions on fusion is not going to make them more desirable but rather result in them being mostly worthless again.

[Methais]

The vast majority of these "vanilla" enhancive items were basically worthless before fusion. Adding all of these additional complicated restrictions on fusion is not going to make them more desirable but rather result in them being mostly worthless again.

I don't know man, those claidhmores with +7 to lockpicking are pretty tight.

[AnOrdim]

"we need you to wear more enhancives in more locations to sell more potions, putting the good enhancives on one item limits the number of sales, thank you"

https://youtu.be/OJrbmRNNB20?list=PLVtrysKTud_HdcNAow67TVx6cabhO2Uu P

[Malisai]

Seems like they missed the mark. Im not going to switch out my 7x normal item for a 1x item with some random enhansive properties. No reason to switch to a weaker item just to use an enhansive.

[crb]

What is this new extraction method?

[AnOrdim]

pay $$$, fusion shaman is the newest victim of being converted to simucoins only.

[Ososis]

Also, you have to decide if you want the orbs to be bound to you or not...Guess how you choose? $$$

[crb]

well if its worth it its worth it. Probably less speculative extraction though. I used to extract shit constantly just to fill my shops with inventory, I won't do that anymore.

[AnOrdim]

Any orb you make now is new style, which will degrade as it sits in a shop, unused, unsold, degrading away, wasted like the money from your wallet that was used to make it.
This is gemstone V: the search for more money.

[AnOrdim]

We can add the bound fusion orbs to the long list of lies that Wyrom has sold everyone: Remember when he said they wouldn't be doing bound equipment?
Fucking serial liar.

[Wrathbringer]

We can add the bound fusion orbs to the long list of lies that Wyrom has sold everyone: Remember when he said they wouldn't be doing bound equipment?
Fucking serial liar.

umadbro?

[Ososis]

I didn't think T2 fusion orbs rotted unless they were socketed?

[Wrathbringer]

I didn't think T2 fusion orbs rotted unless they were socketed?

Nope. They begin rotting as soon as you make them, in use or not.

[AnOrdim]

umadbro?

http://www.astrogiochi.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/my%20buddy%20sister1.jpg

[AnOrdim]

Nope. They begin rotting as soon as you make them, in use or not.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSLm8lkeqoe-PGPJVvoEa0ge_n7hkNB75ZxqfJJEgyhLtR3faSf

[Ososis]

Oso: what fusion changes?
GSIV: pick a thing.
Oso: what about the...
GSIV: WE FUCKED IT!

[Fortybox]

pay $$$, fusion shaman is the newest victim of being converted to simucoins only.

Why is this a bad thing?

[AnOrdim]

Why is this a bad thing?

Gee, I'm not sure why a thing that used to be silvers only being converted to simucoins and kept rare while providing a lower tier of service (fusion orbs 2.0) is bad. Perhaps you are able to explain why it is "good"?

[Roblar]

No, it was never silvers only.

It was an expensive EG ticket, or a more expensive RtCF ticket. There was a brief time of the Firebird offering it on a limited basis (cooldown I think per mth).

Simucoins (at 100 per) is like 5 free orbs for a single month's premium subscription (which was not a thing before).

I agree the new T2 orbs degrading post-creation 24/7 is no good however.

[AnOrdim]

No, it was never silvers only.

It was an expensive EG ticket, or a more expensive RtCF ticket. There was a brief time of the Firebird offering it on a limited basis (cooldown I think per mth).

Simucoins (at 100 per) is like 5 free orbs for a single month's premium subscription (which was not a thing before).

I agree the new T2 orbs degrading post-creation 24/7 is no good however.

EG 2016 was ~$50 for everything for 1 character. That included the following for silvers : Forging slab generator (Now BS only = cash/simucoins) the fusion shaman WITH discounts found in chests that could be bundled to certain limits (now simucoin only, with binding option, degrading fusion 2.0 only)

For every 1 thing they do right they do 2-3 things wrong. Sure, the free simucoins is a nice bonus, but now they are earmarked for 18 different things they've since moved behind simucoin purchases. Remember all the great things they said we'd be funding? It would help pay for GM development and time? Oh yeah, only , Estild has flat out said "if you make us actually do anything we'll nerf it *CoL updates, anything he's touched really with wizards etc*, none of the long wanted features are ever coming out, even with the supposed influx of money that should be going to GMs, the bi-monthly events are mostly uninspired, rushed, reskinned gambling traps.

[Roblar]

I had a long post but remembered I don't give a shit.

Except to say, I guess it depends on how much of whatever you do once inside the event. Welcome to a la carte, winners & losers to be had for anything.

[AnOrdim]

That's part of the problem, right? Between people not giving a shit that they are paying more for less, the people who are so invested in sunk costs fallacies, and people who either can't see the forest for the trees or just don't care because it doesn't effect them... YET.
There are a lot of great things in Gemstone that are now being overshadowed with the current direction of development and simucoins now being required for everything end game/high end. Its a quickly turning into a shitty cell phone game that charges a monthly subscription on top of all the nickle and dime bullshit. The most disgusting part of it all is how they well they were doing 2016 with EG configuration and options/offerings, events being balanced between price and rewards and general movement in the game.

2017 they decided to shit the bed and just start nerfing everything and charging more for it.

[SpiffyJr]

I just want to say I play Gemstone as a hobby and I love this game and have loved it for approximately 23 years. That's all I got.

[Fortybox]

Gee, I'm not sure why a thing that used to be silvers only being converted to simucoins and kept rare while providing a lower tier of service (fusion orbs 2.0) is bad. Perhaps you are able to explain why it is "good"?

So you're mad because Simu has found a way to monetize? That's what businesses do.

If it turns out to be a bad move then they may need to review their strategy. Again, why is that a bad thing?

[Fortybox]

I just want to say I play Gemstone as a hobby and I love this game and have loved it for approximately 23 years. That's all I got.

Some people can't separate the game from reality and are mentally unstable.

Unfortunately it's a two-edged sword because 1) Simu profits off of the crazy and 2) Simu gets beat up by the crazy.

[Fortybox]

The really crazy part is that people think this exploitation is stable. You have to see Simu's endgame here, they are cashing out. This game is on it's final chapter and coming to a close.

Um...no. I don't see how you make the illogical leap that Simu is creating an end game of cashing out.

Building monetization strategies shows the exact opposite of what you say.

[AnOrdim]

Rapid additional monetization of an existing client base without growing that client base is always a short-term strategy because it is unsustainable growth.

If you continue to charge or monetize services and features you will begin to shed people faster than the new income is replacing. This may not be the case YET but as each new thing is monetized it will quickly swing the other way. You can only keep the numbers artificially high by offering free subs for so long. I wonder why we don't see so many gloating posts about the awesome growth and numbers and participation anymore. Perhaps the "first hit is free" of the simucoins to paid subscriptions is wearing off as they reduce the return on what they actually get you.

It's funny on an additional level as you describe an environment where a select few will be subsidizing the game for the majority. I was always under the impression that such a thing was an anathema to you.

[BLZrizz]

Rapid additional monetization of an existing client base without growing that client base is always a short-term strategy because it is unsustainable growth.

This is my primary frustration with the game's current direction. Increasing the player base is a rising tide that lifts the boats of both Simu (more potential revenue) and the existing player base (improved community, more robust market for silvers and items at all tiers).

I believe they attempted to market periodically over the years, but they approached it the way they approached the rest of the game: they left it to amateurs. And when the tiny investments yielded poorly, they gave up on it. And when I say give up, I mean give up. GS4 shows up nowhere near the top in google searches for "text based rpg", "fantasy mud" or "rpg mud." And I bet GS4 generates much more revenue than any of the other games that do show up.

The game has huge potential, and it appeals across multiple genres: fantasy, retro gaming, D&D, people who love to read and write, etc. The Tolarian Academy video was an indication of this. If they were to spend 50% of ONE Duskruin's profits in a professionally run marketing campaign, I bet they would see some returns.

[AnOrdim]

Um...no. I don't see how you make the illogical leap that Simu is creating an end game of cashing out.

Building monetization strategies shows the exact opposite of what you say.

They made between $16-20k in a single event (not counting ANY other sales) just by offering the creation of residences. This, combined with a myriad of other offerings, could quickly, fairly and easily be monetized WITHOUT going and chopping up and nerfing the existing offerings and causing bad blood.

It's as if your electrical company came and decided that any non essential appliances would be charged double rates and any lights run during the day would be triple rate. The grocery store is now charging you to pay a meter fee if you park within 50 feet of the entrance and you need to rent the cart because "you've got your own fucking arms, why dont you just carry the shit instead of using our stuff".

[Fortybox]

Rapid additional monetization of an existing client base without growing that client base is always a short-term strategy because it is unsustainable growth.

If you continue to charge or monetize services and features you will begin to shed people faster than the new income is replacing. This may not be the case YET but as each new thing is monetized it will quickly swing the other way. You can only keep the numbers artificially high by offering free subs for so long. I wonder why we don't see so many gloating posts about the awesome growth and numbers and participation anymore. Perhaps the "first hit is free" of the simucoins to paid subscriptions is wearing off as they reduce the return on what they actually get you.

It's funny on an additional level as you describe an environment where a select few will be subsidizing the game for the majority. I was always under the impression that such a thing was an anathema to you.

Monetization of an existing client base is not unsustainable if the demand is there. You assume there isn't.

I think Simu has proved that demand is there considering ~$17k was made in 5 minutes with properties.

For most businesses, a small portion of the consumer base makes up the most sales. If you were to decile consumers on their transactions you would find that most of your business comes from anywhere between 10-30% of the base. I'm sure it is similar for Gemstone.

So again, I don't see why you think monetization is a bad thing. I don't think this game will live or die off of a decision regarding fusion. You're blowing things way out of proportion.

[AnOrdim]

Because it's not just fusion. It's a growing trend of monetizing existing services and features instead of developing and offering new services to monetize. That instant influx isn't what I have a problem with, fuck I'd have been in the running to have bought one if I was still playing. You're too caught up on the tree and not seeing the forest. Things that used to be directly purchasable with silver are not any more. If you can't seperate the difference between "Offering a service that is in demand for simucoins" vs "Taking something that existed already and now locking it behind simucoins" than you'll never see the problem until its too late. I'm sure you'll rationalize it all the way to "Daily energy expended, please buy a movement potion to move from the room you are in or come back tomorrow to keep playing!" That would be smart, its the same thing phone app games do!

[Fortybox]

Because it's not just fusion. It's a growing trend of monetizing existing services and features instead of developing and offering new services to monetize. That instant influx isn't what I have a problem with, fuck I'd have been in the running to have bought one if I was still playing. You're too caught up on the tree and not seeing the forest. Things that used to be directly purchasable with silver are not any more. If you can't seperate the difference between "Offering a service that is in demand for simucoins" vs "Taking something that existed already and now locking it behind simucoins" than you'll never see the problem until its too late. I'm sure you'll rationalize it all the way to "Daily energy expended, please buy a movement potion to move from the room you are in or come back tomorrow to keep playing!" That would be smart, its the same thing phone app games do!

If consumers are willing to pay in simucoins for something that existed already then it completely makes sense for Simu to do so. I think that is what you aren't getting. You're obviously mad about that but if Simu is able to make money off of this strategy then it is in their best interest to do so.

You can't win every customer.

[AnOrdim]

No, you can't, but in a game with little to no growth, a quickly aging player base and an incredibly niche appeal, you should probably focus on keeping the ones you do have while maximizing your income. Secondary goals should be to find a way to bring in new, ideally younger, players to bring them into the cycle. A game lives and dies by it's appeal and community. There aren't a lot of vocally happy people as of late. Each new change has caused more and more people to throw their voice up to say they aren't happy. Again, too much short term gain will cost them in the long run. The real killer is going to be when this all sinks into the secondary market. Silvers quickly tanked from $10 to under $5 in some cases now. All of that happened in about a years time. Right now, the people selling tokens for silvers are flipping the silvers again for cash to make a bit of a profit (or a lot in some cases).

When that market grinds to a halt because of reduced or lack or profit, most likely from the further reduction in silvers value, tied near directly with the fact that they no longer serve a purpose in the game, how long do you think the game will last? All of these things are tied together very closely. It's been argued strongly that the game only lasted through some of its worse times because of this secondary market.

[Fortybox]

No, you can't, but in a game with little to no growth, a quickly aging player base and an incredibly niche appeal, you should probably focus on keeping the ones you do have while maximizing your income. Secondary goals should be to find a way to bring in new, ideally younger, players to bring them into the cycle. A game lives and dies by it's appeal and community. There aren't a lot of vocally happy people as of late. Each new change has caused more and more people to throw their voice up to say they aren't happy. Again, too much short term gain will cost them in the long run. The real killer is going to be when this all sinks into the secondary market. Silvers quickly tanked from $10 to under $5 in some cases now. All of that happened in about a years time. Right now, the people selling tokens for silvers are flipping the silvers again for cash to make a bit of a profit (or a lot in some cases).

When that market grinds to a halt because of reduced or lack or profit, most likely from the further reduction in silvers value, tied near directly with the fact that they no longer serve a purpose in the game, how long do you think the game will last? All of these things are tied together very closely. It's been argued strongly that the game only lasted through some of its worse times because of this secondary market.

I don't think the player base is as mad as you make it out to be.

I don't think the secondary market matters. In fact, I think a shrinking secondary market would be healthy.

[Neveragain]

This is my primary frustration with the game's current direction. Increasing the player base is a rising tide that lifts the boats of both Simu (more potential revenue) and the existing player base (improved community, more robust market for silvers and items at all tiers).

I believe they attempted to market periodically over the years, but they approached it the way they approached the rest of the game: they left it to amateurs. And when the tiny investments yielded poorly, they gave up on it. And when I say give up, I mean give up. GS4 shows up nowhere near the top in google searches for "text based rpg", "fantasy mud" or "rpg mud." And I bet GS4 generates much more revenue than any of the other games that do show up.

The game has huge potential, and it appeals across multiple genres: fantasy, retro gaming, D&D, people who love to read and write, etc. The Tolarian Academy video was an indication of this. If they were to spend 50% of ONE Duskruin's profits in a professionally run marketing campaign, I bet they would see some returns.

Honestly they have players with the professional skills to do some really cool shit, they also have players with awesome ideas they just don't want to pay the $ for. Current management is just too full of themselves to listen to anyone else and their product manager locks out anyone that dare put forward any criticism.

2018 is going to be a rough year for GS, especially if the vanilla servers open this year.

[Wrathbringer]

Because it's not just fusion. It's a growing trend of monetizing existing services and features instead of developing and offering new services to monetize. That instant influx isn't what I have a problem with, fuck I'd have been in the running to have bought one if I was still playing. You're too caught up on the tree and not seeing the forest. Things that used to be directly purchasable with silver are not any more. If you can't seperate the difference between "Offering a service that is in demand for simucoins" vs "Taking something that existed already and now locking it behind simucoins" than you'll never see the problem until its too late. I'm sure you'll rationalize it all the way to "Daily energy expended, please buy a movement potion to move from the room you are in or come back tomorrow to keep playing!" That would be smart, its the same thing phone app games do!

You're still whining? geez, stfu already.

[AnOrdim]

You're still whining? geez, stfu already.

https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/3qYAAOSwU4FZ7SSL/s-l225.jpg

[AnOrdim]

I don't think the player base is as mad as you make it out to be.

I don't think the secondary market matters. In fact, I think a shrinking secondary market would be healthy.

I think announcements with preemptive explanations and excuses is a pretty good sign they are getting a lot of pushback. A lot of the community doesn't post anywhere and only emails their voice. The posts you see on the forums are the tip of the iceberg.
The best example of this is EG minigames : Everyone on lnet and the forums was all for tickets, the GM team claims they got a lot of pushback for items.

[Fortybox]

I think announcements with preemptive explanations and excuses is a pretty good sign they are getting a lot of pushback. A lot of the community doesn't post anywhere and only emails their voice. The posts you see on the forums are the tip of the iceberg.
The best example of this is EG minigames : Everyone on lnet and the forums was all for tickets, the GM team claims they got a lot of pushback for items.

I guess we will see. I think the big difference between you and I though is that I don't really care if GS goes under. You're WAY to emotionally invested in this.

If you don't want to play anymore that's cool. But I'd suggest you find something else to take up your time. What you're doing isn't healthy.

[AnOrdim]

I guess we will see. I think the big difference between you and I though is that I don't really care if GS goes under. You're WAY to emotionally invested in this.

If you don't want to play anymore that's cool. But I'd suggest you find something else to take up your time. What you're doing isn't healthy.

Who is more unhealthy, the man who yells at the clouds or the man who is mad at the man who yells at clouds?

[audioserf]

For sure the guy yelling at the clouds. Yelling at clouds is fucking insane, yelling at annoying people is natural.

[Methais]

I don't think the player base is as mad as you make it out to be.

I don't think the secondary market matters. In fact, I think a shrinking secondary market would be healthy.

Shrinking the secondary market doesn’t just affect people who buy and sell silvers. It also affects people who would otherwise farm up silvers themselves to purchase items with. What options would they have besides cash that they don’t want to spend that they didn’t have to spend before?


Who is more unhealthy, the man who yells at the clouds or the man who is mad at the man who yells at clouds?

Why are you so obsessed about this when you supposedly quit GS for good? Do you think your ranting is gonna make people quit and bring GS down with it, making Simu regret ever pissing you off and teaching them a lesson? Otherwise wtf is in it for you in a game you quit forever?

[AnOrdim]

Why are you so obsessed about this when you supposedly quit GS for good? Do you think your ranting is gonna make people quit and bring GS down with it, making Simu regret ever pissing you off and teaching them a lesson? Otherwise wtf is in it for you in a game you quit forever?

You got me! Caring about things is dumb, better to just bend over and take it. That's the way to do it! An awful lot of insecure people replying about how much they don't care or otherwise marginalizing a problem that affects everyone. Much easier to ignore it and hope it gets better than to try and fix it.

[Wrathbringer]

You got me! Caring about things is dumb, better to just bend over and take it. That's the way to do it! An awful lot of insecure people replying about how much they don't care or otherwise marginalizing a problem that affects everyone. Much easier to ignore it and hope it gets better than to try and fix it.

spoken like a genuine retard.

[AnOrdim]

spoken like a genuine retard.

http://appconext.com/images/termometer-digital_792944541.jpg

[Methais]

You got me! Caring about things is dumb, better to just bend over and take it. That's the way to do it! An awful lot of insecure people replying about how much they don't care or otherwise marginalizing a problem that affects everyone. Much easier to ignore it and hope it gets better than to try and fix it.

You forgot to answer the question though. Why do you care so much if you already quit forever? What’s in it for you? Do you genuinely think your petulant tantrums are gonna get fusion reversed, Wyrom fired, a bunch of other shit rolled back, and the entire dev team replaced with people you agree with?

If so, why? If not, then why are you still here?

Serious inquiry.

[Fortybox]

Who is more unhealthy, the man who yells at the clouds or the man who is mad at the man who yells at clouds?

I'm not mad at you. I'm perplexed why someone such as yourself is expending so much energy on a game he supposedly quit. Usually quitting something means you're done with it and you move on.

[Fortybox]

Shrinking the secondary market doesn’t just affect people who buy and sell silvers. It also affects people who would otherwise farm up silvers themselves to purchase items with. What options would they have besides cash that they don’t want to spend that they didn’t have to spend before?


Simu has shied away from being the supplier and that is now changing. If I owned the game I'd say "screw you" to the people trying to make money from it and insert myself, as the company, into the picture. Obviously those who are propping up the secondary market aren't going to like that.

Simu is in the best position to give options. While I don't think the secondary market will be completely killed off (there will always be some demand for items), I think Simu is realizing they can be an active participant in directing incremental dollars their way. You can't fault the company for doing that.

[Ososis]

If silvers have value, there will be a secondary market. if silver is worthless then everything costs RL dollars and your loot, treasure, and wealth become meaningless.

The game does not need a secondary market, but the secondary market is a sign of the game being healthier. In my opinion of course, I ain’t nobody.

[Imperarx]

Or Simu could tie them together by offering Simucoins for silvers at some crazy amount. I doubt they ever will, but that would be a solid way for them to stabilize the silver market. Baring that, a way to slowly earn simucoins over time outside of the monthly reward would also work.