How much DS does brawling add when unarmed?

[dex]

Right now I've got 202 in brawling for those times when I'm disarmed from my polearm... how much additional DS exactly does that grant me while I'm disarmed (vs having no ranks at all)? I can't find info on this, and I don't want to waste 2 fixskills testing.

[Methais]

In offensive I’m pretty sure the answer is 0. In other stances probably the same parry DS you would get with a 0x weapon.

[Gelston]

From what this says...

https://gswiki.play.net/Parry

You have to hold a weapon to get parry DS. So nothing.

[rolfard]

Cast 1214

[dex]

Oh man. So basically I trained in a useless skill for what I intended.

[Jymamon]

I hit the test server with my 49 rogue

Setup |0x Brawl | 1x Brawl | 2x Brawl
Offensive (no gear) |249 |260 | 270
Defensive (no gear) |334 |373 | 409
Offensive + 4x gloves|249 |262 | 272
Defensive + 4x Gloves|334 |380 | 416
Offensive + 4x gloves, 4x shield |269 |282 | 292
Defensive +4x gloves, 4x shield |348 |394 | 430


(He had no shield training at all, I just had a buckler handy to try out.)

[Methais]

From what this says...

https://gswiki.play.net/Parry

You have to hold a weapon to get parry DS. So nothing.

Pretty sure your fist is considered a weapon if you have brawling and will give you parry DS with an open hand.

https://i.imgur.com/cQm4N8N.png

[Gelston]

Pretty sure your fist is considered a weapon if you have brawling and will give you parry DS with an open hand.

https://i.imgur.com/cQm4N8N.png

You apparently still get the base value, but nothing added for parry DS, which requires a weapon. As you can see, offense difference is minuscule.

[Methais]

You apparently still get the base value, but nothing added for parry DS, which requires a weapon. As you can see, offense difference is minuscule.

You never got parry DS in offensive with any weapon.

Kave swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +327 vs DS: +464 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +23 = -97
A clean miss.

You are now in a defensive stance.

Kave swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +327 vs DS: +626 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +1 = -281
A clean miss.

You glance down at your empty hands.

Brawling...........................| 201 101

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/supa-hot-fire.gif

[Fallen]

The test server is still open IIRC, so feel free to do some number crunching on your own builds.

[Gelston]

You never got parry DS in offensive with any weapon.

Kave swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +327 vs DS: +464 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +23 = -97
A clean miss.

You are now in a defensive stance.

Kave swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +327 vs DS: +626 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +1 = -281
A clean miss.

You glance down at your empty hands.

Brawling...........................| 201 101

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/supa-hot-fire.gif

.... I don't know what your test is trying to show. You do get additional parry DS from holding a weapon in offense. Try putting a tiger claw in your hand, not only do you get the enchant bonus, but you get the .2 modifier for parry DS. The Parry DS modifier is higher for THW in offense.

[Methais]

.... I don't know what your test is trying to show. You do get additional parry DS from holding a weapon in offense. Try putting a tiger claw in your hand, not only do you get the enchant bonus, but you get the .2 modifier for parry DS. The Parry DS modifier is higher for THW in offense.

I thought you were saying at first that open hand parry DS wasn't a thing. I also never realized you got any parry DS in offensive. Even if .2 is poopies. Like what Latrin does in his pants.

WTB 10x fist

[Gelston]

I thought you were saying at first that open hand parry DS wasn't a thing. I also never realized you got any parry DS in offensive. Even if .2 is poopies. Like what Latrin does in his pants.

WTB 10x fist

According to the wiki you need a weapon to get ANY parry DS. what you're seeing is BASE DS, which requires no weapon.

Whether that is true or not, I don't know. You can test it. I don't feel like it. I do know you can't parry without a weapon, unless you have that minor mental spell running.

[Methais]

According to the wiki you need a weapon to get ANY parry DS. what you're seeing is BASE DS, which requires no weapon.

Whether that is true or not, I don't know. You can test it. I don't feel like it. I do know you can't parry without a weapon, unless you have that minor mental spell running.

I'm too lazy too. Someone else needs to stop everything they're doing and test this immediately and report the results.

[Gelston]

I'm too lazy too. Someone else needs to stop everything they're doing and test this immediately and report the results.

Where is Tgo when you need him?

[Methais]

@Tgo01

[Riltus]

Right now I've got 202 in brawling for those times when I'm disarmed from my polearm... how much additional DS exactly does that grant me while I'm disarmed (vs having no ranks at all)? I can't find info on this, and I don't want to waste 2 fixskills testing.

Approximately +43 DS (0.2 DS per rank) in offensive stance and +150 DS (0.7 per rank) in defensive. The strength and dexterity bonuses are converted to ranks using the following formula: trunc(STR bonus/4) + trunc(DEX bonus /4) and are added to the 202 brawling ranks. For example, 25 STR bonus/4 + 30 DEX bonus/4 will add 13 to the 202 brawling ranks for a total of 215.

trunc(215 * 0.2) = +43 DS (0ffensive)
trunc(215 * 0.7) = +150 DS (Defensive)

The STANCE BONUS (0 OFF, 10 ADV, 20 FOR, 30 NEU, 40 GUA, 50 DEF) is activating even with 0 weapon ranks. Not sure if that's intended. You'll need to decide if +10 offensive stance DS per 50 brawling ranks is worth the TP cost.

The parry DS formula activates with 1 rank brawling and an open right hand because a closed fist is a brawling weapon.

Mark

[dex]

So there's benefit....... +43 DS in offense is worth it.

[khorpulent]

Yeah, I think the deal is that you get parry DS, but you can't actually parry an attack bare handed without 1214 up.

According to a saved post from Finros on the Wiki, UAC gloves add their enchant bonus to parry DS in the same way that a one-handed weapon does.

You can also pick up the extra +15 parry DS from TWC training.

[beldar17]

there any secret skills you need to train in as a twohanded weapon user that raises DS in offensive?

[Methais]

there any secret skills you need to train in as a twohanded weapon user that raises DS in offensive?

Spells.

[Gelston]

there any secret skills you need to train in as a twohanded weapon user that raises DS in offensive?

On my THW warrior, I usually got full spellups and had a few imbeds, including a 5x/day 120 item. With my 10x perfect maul and plate, I was pretty much awesome.

[Tenzle]

I wonder if you can get any parry ds with enchanted UAC gloves + brawling.

[Gelston]

I wonder if you can get any parry ds with enchanted UAC gloves + brawling.

According to what has been said in this thread, you get parry DS from brawling just by having an open hand (Gloves don't take up a held weapon slot, so it counts as brawling). You won't, however, beable to actually parry attacks without a brawling weapon or that mental spell.

[Riltus]

I wonder if you can get any parry ds with enchanted UAC gloves + brawling.

Yes!

The enchant bonus of UCS compatible gloves adds the same DS as a one-hand weapon of equal enchant. This enchant bonus, when applicable, is also added to TWC off-hand parry DS. For example, if a character is trained in brawling and TWC, a pair of 4x (+20 bonus) UCS gloves provides the same DS as two 4x brawling weapons.
__________________________________________________ __________

ONE-HAND WEAPON PARRY DS

This formula applies to the following:
1. When holding a one-handed weapon with the appropriate skill (OHE, OHB, BRAWL, POLEARMS gripped one-handed, two-handed weapons gripped one handed)
2. An empty right hand with brawl training
3. An empty right hand with UCS compatible gloves and brawl training

trunc[(Weapon Ranks + trunc(STR bonus/4) + trunc(DEX bonus/4) + trunc(Weapon enchant bonus/2)) * (stance modifier)]

Stance modifiers:

OFF: 0.20
ADV: 0.30
FOR: 0.40
NEU: 0.50
GUA: 0.60
DEF: 0.70

OFF-HAND DS (The off-hand formula is the same as above with three modifications)

1. Replace one-hand weapon ranks with TWC ranks

2. Stance modifiers are halved

OFF: 0.10
ADV: 0.15
FOR: 0.20
NEU: 0.25
GUA: 0.30
DEF: 0.35

3a. Off-hand receives a flat bonus of +5 DS bonus
3b. Off-hand receives an additional +10 DS bonus when 1) the off-hand is empty AND TWC ranks equal 0.5x the character's level or 2) the off-hand is holding a main gauche or sai.

Total Parry DS = One-hand parry DS + Off-hand parry DS

EXAMPLE:

Brawling ranks: 100
STR bonus: 24
DEX bonus: 20
Level: 50
TWC ranks: 25
UCS gloves: +25 enchant bonus
TWC bonus: +5
TWC additional bonus: +10 (.5x twc train per level)

One-hand parry DS offensive stance w/ stance modifier 0.20:


trunc[(100 brawl ranks + trunc(24/4 STR) + trunc(20/4 DEX) + trunc(25/2 enchant bonus)) * 0.20] = trunc(123 * 0.20) = +24 DS

Defensive stance w/ stance modifier 0.70: trunc(123 * 0.70) = +86 DS

Off-hand parry DS offensive stance w/ stance modifier 0.10:


trunc[(25 TWC ranks + trunc(24/4 STR) + trunc(20/4 DEX) + trunc(25/2 enchant bonus)) * 0.10] + 15 TWC bonus = trunc(48 * 0.10) + 15 = +19 DS

Defensive stance w/ stance modifier 0.35: trunc(48 * 0.35) + 15 = +31 DS

Total parry DS (one-hand + off-hand)

Offensive stance: (24 + 19 ) = +43 DS
Defensive stance: (86 + 31 ) = +117 DS

Mark

[gilchristr]

19 DS for offensive stance is pretty good for 25 TWC ranks. I think 25 dodge ranks gives you less DS, and costs a lot more TP.

Do you get the same DS if you use a two handed weapon, and have .5 of your level in TWC ranks? Guessing yes

[gilchristr]

Mark, I just trained from 1 rank of TWC to 15 ranks of TWC, tested my DS empty handed before and after. I am 60 trains, so I thought this would increase DS by 10 points in defensive. Only went up 6 points in defensive.

I made sure I was not encumbered, cant think of why else that would be.


Here is my relevant stats:
- str bonus 38
- dex bonus 20
- brawling ranks 114
- twc ranks 15
- level 60
- dodge ranks = 0

DS in stance d with no encumbrance 174.

The same character had a DS in stanc d with no encumbrance of 168 with all stats the same except twc = 1 (instead of 15)

[gilchristr]

"Off-hand receives an additional +10 DS bonus when 1) the off-hand is empty AND TWC ranks equal 0.5x the character's level"

I think this statement is the problem. Looks to me like you only get an additional +5 DS bonus (for a total of +10) when the condition is met.

[Riltus]

Mark, I just trained from 1 rank of TWC to 15 ranks of TWC, tested my DS empty handed before and after. I am 60 trains, so I thought this would increase DS by 10 points in defensive. Only went up 6 points in defensive.

"Off-hand receives an additional +10 DS bonus when 1) the off-hand is empty AND TWC ranks equal 0.5x the character's level"

I think this statement is the problem. Looks to me like you only get an additional +5 DS bonus (for a total of +10) when the condition is met.

The condition wasn't met. Minimum TWC ranks to unlock the additional +10 DS bonus is: (lvl 60 * 0.5) = 30 ranks.

Off-hand DS in DEF stance with your character's stats:

1 rank TWC = +10 DS
trunc((1 + 9 + 5) * .35) + 5 bonus

15 ranks TWC = +15 DS
trunc((15 + 9 + 5) * .35) + 5 bonus

30 ranks TWC = +30 DS
trunc ((30 + 9 + 5) * .35) + 15 bonus

Mark

[Riltus]

19 DS for offensive stance is pretty good for 25 TWC ranks. I think 25 dodge ranks gives you less DS, and costs a lot more TP.

Do you get the same DS if you use a two handed weapon, and have .5 of your level in TWC ranks? Guessing yes

I'm not quite sure what you're asking here. You don't receive any off-hand DS when holding a two-handed weapon. You use the THW parry DS formula.

https://gswiki.play.net/Parry#Parry_Defensive_Strength_.28DS.29

Mark

[gilchristr]

Thanks Mark, I get it.

[gilchristr]

Mark, tested when I reached 30 ranks it worked exactly as expected (+10 extra DS from going from rank 29 to rank 30). Thx again