Death/Religion/Reincarnation..

[GS4Gurl]

I don't know how I forgot to mention this one in the "afraid of" thread, but I think Death is one of my greatest fears. Why? well because it is so mysterious, uncertain, and... final.

Througout my life I thought nothing of death until someone very close to me died. Since his death.. I think about death all the time. What happens to us? Does death hurt when our souls leave our bodies? Do we float towards a great light of peace? Or go to a purgatory? or a hellfire and damnation bottomless pit?! Eeek.

Anyway, what is your theory?

I entitled the thread Death, Religion and Reincarnation because I know the thread might mesh together along that line of discussions, that is if its interesting enough to talk about.

Me just pondering again. :)

[GS4Gurl]

P.S. I am hoping HarmNone shares her theory on this because I find her to be a very wise person and am interested in what she might have to say about it.

[Ilvane]

I like to think we move on to a better place. My father passed away in February, and I swear sometimes I still feel as if his presence is around.

I think it's just a place where things are really peaceful. I don't think we get reincarnated, but that we die and go to a place to rest, and live for the rest of your life.

For me, the best thing was seeing my dad in a dream. He was sitting in a beach chair, drinking a beer and he was wearing shorts. It was really significant because my father had bad blood clots and also had ulcers on his legs, so he always wore pants. He wouldn't drink because he had the tendency to drink too much. And he never went to the beach because he had an oxygen unit that didn't travel well there. It was if all of his ailments were gone, and he could just be happy. It was a really great thing.

That's how I think of death..I just think we move on to a nice peaceful place.

-A

[StrayRogue]

Rebirth, I hope. Or maybe some kind of ascension or something. I am not religious, and the older I get, the more cynical I become; my fear is that after death there is nothing.

[Tendarian]

Im still trying to figure out what i believe and im 28 sheesh. I believe in some kind of higher power but beyond that i just dont know. I did a religion test online somewhere and it said my beliefs fit closest to orthodox jew! I was raised catholic and even confirmed so i have no idea what i think anymore.

I guess if i had to make a decision id say there is a heaven and a purgatory but that would be just what i think this week. A month from now i will probably say there is nothing.

[Bestatte]

Message from the grave:

Once, I was in a car accident. It was a really bad one, and for just under 3 minutes I was clinically dead. During that 2.x minutes, I watched myself from "above" somewhere in the CICU (Cardiac Intensive Care Unit). I didn't have any sensation of floating, or any sensation at all for that matter. I just had an awareness that I still existed.

I saw the doctors and nurses looking down at the "other" me on the CICU stretcher, checking monitors and the tubes running into my throat and in my veins.

I felt no emotion, not happy, sad, nothing. I did, however, "sense" something "else" "waiting" for me. I didn't see any bright light or tunnel or any of that stuff you hear about. Just a profound knowledge that there was something else. But I also had the knowledge that I had a choice; to go to/do that "something else," or return.

I "decided" that I had more to do and was just too busy to go somewhere else, so I stayed. And then I was suddenly back on my stretcher, unconscious but alive.

Because of my experience, I am sure, without any doubts whatsoever, that there -is- something else after the body dies. What that is, I have no idea. But I had no fear of it. It was as though it was simply the next logical step, and nothing to be afraid of.

I recovered by the way; a broken femur, radius and ulna, clavical, three ribs, and a root canal with a split lip. Two surgeries: the first to implant a metal rod in my leg and two steel plates in my forearm, the second to take them back out a couple of years later.

The doctor said I'd walk with a limp for the rest of my life, and that I'd probably be in a wheelchair by age 40. I stopped limping around a year after the accident, and I'm 42 and still walking around and running and can (and do) climb trees when I'm in the mood.

I attribute it to that experience. *Something* allowed me to see that I needed to stay alive and well. And so I have kept my promise to that *something* to do exactly that.

[HarmNone]

Oh, my. This is a very deep subject, and a very personal one to each individual. I shall, however, be happy to share what I believe.

I believe that we are all a part of an infinite whole that encompasses all life, human and otherwise, animate and inanimate - in other words, all that is. I believe that being alive, as we know it, is only a stop along the way...a brief moment in time/space. I believe that when we die, we remain a part of that infinite whole. Only the corporal self ceases. I believe that we are all connected, each a part of the other, and each a part of the whole.

I do not believe that death, in and of itself, is a painful process. Events leading up to death may be painful, but death itself, in my opinion, is simply an ending to an act in the ongoing play of the universe.

HarmNone waxing philosophical ;)

My belief is rather complex I guess.

First, it is important to point out that I have levels of belief.

On the ultimate level, we are all part of the same energy and, as a result, we are the same being. But that level is rather simple and it's the more specific facts that are more interesting.

On a lower level, I believe that we are each "virtually omnipotent". I hold that belief, in fact, shapes reality and as long as we can believe completely, whatever we believe exists... simply does.

This is why perception is so important.

I believe that at some point, we (as gods of our own realities) came together in this place. As a result, our realities collided and became one. We disagreed on what we believed and hence, some of our beliefs failed to manifest. With failure came doubt, and with the introduction of doubt, the ability to believe completely was almost completely lost.

Over time, our world shaped into what it is today. We began to gravitate towards specific forms and eventually became all that is, and forgot our ability to shape the universe.

When we die, we are freed from the belief of others and are immediately restored to our former glory. Only, we aren't aware of this. We have formulated beliefs in life... and those are what we hold true in our heart, so that is what happens. Not what we desire, mind you. What we believe.

For example. A christian who believes deeply in his faith, but knows deep down that he is not worthy of heaven, will actually send himself to "Hell". Likely a lake of fire with horrible things rending his "flesh".

Another person may appear in paradise, while another may immediately be reborn.

I believe that in death, time and space have no meaning and that, at any point, we can choose to be reborn.

When we realize ourselves, we may play a myriad of roles... from supreme deity over a planet to the tiniest pathogen floating through the cosmos.

But eventually, we're all reborn. What this means is... we could theoretically be born in 1982, die in 2055, be reborn in 1983, meet our other body in our new life, fall in love and marry ourself.

This is, in my view, the true meaning of a soulmate. Someone who is actually your spirit in a different body leading a different life.

I also believe that other spirits are often tied in with us and we may journey together through several lives... as siblings, as master/pet, as lovers, as anything... but they may always be significant in our existences and in a sense, will will most assuredly be reunited with our loved ones again.

Okay... ::pants:: So whatcha think?

[StrayRogue]

Heh, sorry to take the dastardly scientific perspective of nothingness upon death.

[Jenisi]

It's amazing how many people have different views on things. I don't really like to touch this subject, because I know my views are bound to upset somone. I personally believe, in energies.. because that's all we are. A big bundle of energy. I don't really believe in a "god" or a single on thing that's above us that judges us and sits at heavens gate waiting for us after death. I don't believe in heaven or hell at all actually. I believe in doing good, and doing good brings us good natrually. I believe we are here to make our own decisions, and enjoy life! I think religion is a great thing because it helps alot of people get through difficult situations. I mean if you believe with all your heart praying to god to have mercy or help somone will actually work, more power to you. I think the bible and the idea of heaven were made up to keep people in check here on earth, and to think that all their time here wasn't wasted and they will get to see so and so again because that means alot to them. I don't see what's so wrong about nothingness after death. There was nothingness to you before you were born, was it that bad then? No. It's all about peace.. Fear is natural, but it is inevitable.

[GOD]

Just my comment of death:

Death doesnt really scare me, it use to, but i've seen alotta homies go down 6 deep, and itz like i just realize that damn, one day i'ma be layed out in a caskit, and i'm ready for that shit whenever it happens, i just wonder if itz gonna be someone that i've got problems with that layz me out, or if its just some random shit that puts me deep....y'know

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Rebirth, I hope. Or maybe some kind of ascension or something. I am not religious, and the older I get, the more cynical I become; my fear is that after death there is nothing.

That's how I feel as well. Believing that I'll come back relieves me, but thinking perhaps that once I go it will be like a light burning out, it frightens me.

[Caels]

Klaive, I think that's the single most intelligent and enlightening post I've yet to read from you. I'm impressed.

I think you could be so much better a poster if you'd bring to light more issues like this. Granted, people are bound to disagree or laugh or what not, but who cares, its completely their opinion. So now that you've proven there is more to you than you would like us to believe, do share more.

For me, I'm a mix between Jenisi, Klaive and HarmNone on this issue.

I believe that where you go is where you'd believe you would go when you die. For me, that is reincarnation, for someone else it can be completely different.

I also believe that we are all energies entertwined on the same level of consciousness. And yes, I believe everything in nature is conscious as well. These energies can mold and shape each other, for good or for evil, preferably the former. And such actions determine the direction you go in death, as to what you believe. For Christians, this would be heaven or hell, for me it would be ascension or descension in the next form of life.

The reincarnation issue is a very touchy subject with many people, but I like to think my take is very simple. I believe our purpose is the enrichment of our souls, and that through reincarnation we learn the true meanings of love, hate, joy and pain. That we take these experiences with us to our next form, and ultimately, we return such experiences to the (and I hate to sound corny) cosmic web of life. This allows new souls to draw from the experiences that are "life" and promotes the growth of all.

I believe that gods are born from the beliefs of many, and that all gods currently worshipped are valid and true. This is where I can agree with Darien. We use our energies to create and shape the world around us, whether we realize it or not. This is also highly supportive of the cause and effect systems and karma.

I also believe that every person has their own path, one meant just for them that was intended to make them a better person. You as a freely thinking and conscious person have the ability to follow that path or deny it, but if you follow it life will take you where you are meant to be.

[Edaarin]

I'm Buddhist. Figure it out.

[imported_Kranar]

I'm muslim, it's heaven or hell for me.

[CrystalTears]

This reminds me of the movie "Defending Your Life" about a guy who needs to prove that he's grown as a soul and overcome his fears and ready to move onto the next part of his celestial journey. It's a funny movie but it also makes you really think about one of the many options that the afterlife can hold.

I do believe in reincarnation, and I also believe that we are all energies with different destinations. For some reason, as much as I was brought up with heaven and hell, I don't really believe in it. If I did, I know I'm going to hell, and I know I won't be alone. :D

[StrayRogue]

I'll see you in the pool of molten lava at 6 CT. Bring your trident.

[Back]

Many things here I agree with...

I believe that we are all slivers of the Whole. This connects us to it and each other. For whatever reason, in this form, we are split from the Whole. When we die, depending on our belief, we will either rejoin that Whole (heaven) or remain apart from it (hell).

More about heaven and hell. I believe we already experience both while in this form.

I am not sure that the Whole is a natural occurence. We have an ability to see our thoughts crystalize in physical form ie. I imagine a picture, I draw the picture. I've begun to wonder if thats not the case for all physical matter. If it is, the concept of nature is also artificial as it begins with a plan or thought. Is it the Whole thinking all this stuff into existence?

I've read about there being many levels to consciousness, that this is just one step in a series of forms we undergo until we are ready to meet with God. This sounds very probable to me.

Death is something I actually look forward to, but not just yet. I want it to be the last thing I experience to round off what I hope will be a good life. So far so good. Its how I will die that freaks me out when I'm laying in bed late at night trying to sleep. I have always thought I was going to be an old man for some reason. But, you never know.

I had a dream once where I ran into Charlie Chaplin. I knew he was dead so I asked him three questions, one of which I do not remember, but the other two go something like...

Q. How does time work in the afterlife?
A. The same, but you don't have to pay as much attention to it.

Q. Whats after where you are now?
A. I don't know, but I do know that after that, is the door to the seat of God.

This was just a dream, but the answers could very well be in our subconscious already, and may have bubbled to the surface.

Anyway, passing from life to death has to be one hell of a rush.

[Xcalibur]

Personally I would like that there would be something after life... but when i refute that idea, i really am upset...

Afterlife = life/travel of the soul

Problematisation: Do we have trully a soul?

Hypothese: each human got a soul

Arguments:

-Very often very young people ( less than 2 years) got knowledge of stuff they couldn't learn at their young age (some language, some words, some "deja vu")

-Ghosts (trapped/lost souls)

-Right after dying, some scientifics said that the corpses lose about around 50 grammes (1/7 pounds)

-Only human being are able to cry, crying is the langague of the soul (heard that one from a philosoph teacher)

- Deja vu

-so many personnal experiences of people.

Refutation (in the form of questions)

- Let's say we can clone tomorrow, fully grown human being. That would mean that we create souls or not?

No:
religious gift.


Yes:
Human being are human being. Therefore the day we can clone, we take the role of God. Will clone have access to the after-life?

Let's say we clone Hitler and Hitler II is nice and well educated. He is a good part of our society and you can see he likes his life, he got that survival instinct like all good human being.

There is no way he couldn't go to the after-life just because he's a clone, since he learned, he laughed, he cried, he loved, etc... all that make us human.

Conclusion: being a clone doesn't mean you are soulless??

That means the soul is grown with the body, and isn't part of any gift from anyone?


Key to knowledge about after-life= soul



--------------------------------------------------


About rebirth/reincarnation

I believe that if those 2 are the after-death, we will never know about it.
Simply if one day, it's proven that we reincarnate into an other body, an other baby, 25% minimum of the whole population will commit suicidal, to start anew, "cause that life sux, wanna get an other".

About the parking of soul into Heaven, i don't think it is like the Catholique Church told us, I can't imagine 500,000,000,000 souls having fun.

Are we simply an experimentation of some aliens?

So many questions...

[Caels]

I think the day we start cloning people is the day I give up on humanity...

[Xcalibur]

Caels, give up now, it's already being done, desinformation is already working

[Caels]

And I point you to my mood...










<---------

[Edited on 9-12-2003 by Caels]

[GS4Gurl]

Wow, I too am impressed with Klaive. :) I feel that our souls have existed since the beginning and when we die our souls are reborn into another body. Or at least thats what I am hoping. heh. Like CrystalTears I just hate to think what short time we are here are just over once we die. Like blowing out a candle... thats it nothing. I like to think the candle can be re-lit. Or maybe we are given a choice to have it re-lit? perhaps. I enjoyed reading all your posts though. You guys are quite smart and interesting.

[GS4Gurl]

Originally posted by Caels
I think the day we start cloning people is the day I give up on humanity...

I think cloning is a very dangerous thing to mess with. It is unnatural and kind of creepy.

[Weedmage Princess]

I was raised a strict Christian, old country beliefs, etc. I still consider myself Christian, I definitely believe in God, due to my own personal tragedies and triumphs in my life..I feel someone..or something..got me through. But I mean..at the end of the day, I just don't know. Death scares me too...the idea of leaving everything I love and hold dear is...upsetting to say the least. As far as heaven or hell...I don't know. Reincarnation...don't know....I really have no idea what I believe as far as death goes. I just try to do the right thing so if it's a matter of "earning my stripes", I've done it.

[Camri]

Originally posted by Kranar
I'm muslim, it's heaven or hell for me.

I'm christian, and it's the same for me. I would really like to know more about your religion if you're interested in talking.

We all have different beliefs about what happens when we die. But it seems we all believe in something other than just ceasing to exist.

I believe in the typical christian after life. Heaven for the good, and hell for the bad.
I believe there is a God who makes these decisons.

I'm not a religious fanatic. I don't even go to church regularly. But I've found that some kind of faith is almost a necessity.

In the past 7 months I've lost both my dad and my brother. I found great comfort in knowing they're probably in a better place.

I wonder if most people have whatever beliefs they have for the same kind of reasons? I mean, do we believe in these things just to comfort ourselves, or do we really believe in them?

[GSLeloo]

I'm not scared of death. I think death is kind of like sleeping, peaceful and just no worries. As for rebirth? I don't really think we're reborn but I do think parts of people live within us. Like each person in your life somehow makes an imprint on you so even after they're gone, you still feel them.

[Drew2]

Hmm.. I guess I'm going to stand alone and state my views that basically contradict everone elses.

I don't believe in anything. Supreme beings, ghosts, angels, rebirth, afterlife... none of it. I think we're all here because we are. No one put us here, no one will put us anywhere else when we die. When we die, our bodies 'shut off', and that is the end of it. You decompose, feed the earth, whatever.

Religions were created as a sort of control, and as a sort of answer to the questions posed in this thread. I believe somethings are not meant to be answered, because we just can't know. People can guess, can believe, can have hope, but personally I think it's a waste of time. Science proves much in the way of 'how things work' or 'how they were created', and as far as I'm concerned, if I see proof, I can believe it. I have yet to see a miracle that can't be explained logically, or hear someone tell me a story that can have no other explanation than a higher power.

Again, this is just my opinion. It's not meant to say you are wrong, or that mine is better than yours. I'm just.. sharing.

[smarty pants]

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage
My belief is rather complex I guess.

First, it is important to point out that I have levels of belief.

On the ultimate level, we are all part of the same energy and, as a result, we are the same being. But that level is rather simple and it's the more specific facts that are more interesting.

On a lower level, I believe that we are each "virtually omnipotent". I hold that belief, in fact, shapes reality and as long as we can believe completely, whatever we believe exists... simply does.

This is why perception is so important.

I believe that at some point, we (as gods of our own realities) came together in this place. As a result, our realities collided and became one. We disagreed on what we believed and hence, some of our beliefs failed to manifest. With failure came doubt, and with the introduction of doubt, the ability to believe completely was almost completely lost.

Over time, our world shaped into what it is today. We began to gravitate towards specific forms and eventually became all that is, and forgot our ability to shape the universe.

When we die, we are freed from the belief of others and are immediately restored to our former glory. Only, we aren't aware of this. We have formulated beliefs in life... and those are what we hold true in our heart, so that is what happens. Not what we desire, mind you. What we believe.

For example. A christian who believes deeply in his faith, but knows deep down that he is not worthy of heaven, will actually send himself to "Hell". Likely a lake of fire with horrible things rending his "flesh".

Another person may appear in paradise, while another may immediately be reborn.

I believe that in death, time and space have no meaning and that, at any point, we can choose to be reborn.

When we realize ourselves, we may play a myriad of roles... from supreme deity over a planet to the tiniest pathogen floating through the cosmos.

But eventually, we're all reborn. What this means is... we could theoretically be born in 1982, die in 2055, be reborn in 1983, meet our other body in our new life, fall in love and marry ourself.

This is, in my view, the true meaning of a soulmate. Someone who is actually your spirit in a different body leading a different life.

I also believe that other spirits are often tied in with us and we may journey together through several lives... as siblings, as master/pet, as lovers, as anything... but they may always be significant in our existences and in a sense, will will most assuredly be reunited with our loved ones again.

Okay... ::pants:: So whatcha think?
i think that your post was too long and retarded to read through.

Thanks everyone, it took me several years of personal reflection and researching various beliefs to understand exactly what it is that I believe.

There are more nuances of my beliefs, but that is the basic jist of it. :)

[Miss X]

I am in 100% agreement with Tayre on this one. As cold as it may sound I believe in nothing except the scientific facts, we are alive, we die, we decompose, we are nothing but carbon atoms. I have a degree in sociology and if it taught me one thing, it was that everything we think exists because of some Supreme Being or whatever, actually exists because of society. Society has always existed, its what shapes us. Religion, in the words of Karl Marx (ok I’m a socialist) is the opium of the masses, it exists to keep us in line or exercise some control over us. Throughout history religion has been used to fear people into not doing things. For example look at the idea or purgatory which was invented by the catholic church during a period of disillusionment with religion and order. They used the idea or purgatory to keep people under control, so they wouldn’t do things in life for fear of what would happen in death, and also one thing that amuses me, is that during the period where purgatory was widely believed, and enforced by the pope, churches offered people the chance to pay for prayers after their death to ensure they would spend less time in purgatory. I mean talk about capitalism at its worst. ok ok I’m rambling now, as far as I’m concerned ideas about death etc are a personal choice, those who try and force their ideas down upon others are the worst. live and let live I say, if religion, or religious beliefs make someone feel good, or complete then great. From a personal point of view, I have my opinions, and I will gladly take the shit for them if I ever find myself standing face to face with 'God'.
Vx

[Xcalibur]

Saying there is no life after death is like saying we're completely alone in the universe...

Completely stupid human thinking

Tell me what is the fucking purpose of life if not to procreate ? (so damn it, welcome poligamie!)

Sorry, if we are only carbon unit, we would be fucking animals unable to think and feel emotions.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
Saying there is no life after death is like saying we're completely alone in the universe...

Completely stupid human thinking

Tell me what is the fucking purpose of life if not to procreate ? (so damn it, welcome poligamie!)

Sorry, if we are only carbon unit, we would be fucking animals unable to think and feel emotions.

Erm, retard, animals can think and feel. We ARE carbon units. Prove to me there IS life after death.

[Miss X]

Sorry, I didn’t make myself 100% clear, I meant that our bodies end up as carbon after decomposition. I of course accept that we have consciousness of self, unlike other life forms but I don’t think that makes us special, or equates to a guarantee of life after death. However, none of us will ever know the truth until its too late and if I'm wrong then I’m wrong. We should just enjoy life while we have it, cos this might be all we will ever have.
V

[Edited on 12-9-03 by Miss X]

[Xcalibur]

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by Xcalibur
Saying there is no life after death is like saying we're completely alone in the universe...

Completely stupid human thinking

Tell me what is the fucking purpose of life if not to procreate ? (so damn it, welcome poligamie!)

Sorry, if we are only carbon unit, we would be fucking animals unable to think and feel emotions.

Erm, retard, animals can think and feel. We ARE carbon units. Prove to me there IS life after death.

Stay polite or go read Socrate's way to debate.

Animals are animals

We're above that, no need to start a debate over this.

Prove to me there is no life after death, rather




[Edited on 9-12-2003 by Xcalibur]

[StrayRogue]

I am sure I speak for everyone here when I say...what?

[imported_Kranar]

<< I'm christian, and it's the same for me. I would really like to know more about your religion if you're interested in talking. >>

I'm usually up for discussing various religious perspectives. I usually like to combine religion with philosophy and science. I feel they're all fundamentally the same.

<< We all have different beliefs about what happens when we die. But it seems we all believe in something other than just ceasing to exist. >>

Some do believe otherwise, both nihilists and materialists believe that no after life exists. Once we die, we die. Nihilism is a quite extreme as we're pretty much just an accident with no meaning or virtue. Life just exists for the sake of existing and humans should reject any form of institution, seize all attempts at finding meaning in our lives, and just do whatever the heck we want. The word itself is the root word in anihilation, and historically nihilistic movements have always been about anarchy.

<< I believe there is a God who makes these decisons. >>

In Islam God is the final judge of who enters heaven or hell, but one will also be judged by all those whom one wronged, and all those to whom one did good. Some will forgive, others will not and the balance between the two determines to what extent ones punishment is. Hell can be for all eternity, but not nessecarily.

Since Islam isn't an institution of any kind, muslims aren't guaranteed to go to heaven and non-muslims aren't guaranteed to go to hell. Islam is simply a book that was meant to teach one how to live a good and righteous life.

<< I wonder if most people have whatever beliefs they have for the same kind of reasons? I mean, do we believe in these things just to comfort ourselves, or do we really believe in them? >>

Religion is a fundamental belief, there is no way to prove it because it is what one must use to prove other things. Just like you can not prove some very basic things like Newton's Three Laws of Motion, you can not prove religion either. What's important is that you seek the many religions available, be open minded about them, and like you mentioned, try ever so hard to pick a religion not because it's easy and convenient or simply because you want to comfort yourself with something to hold on to, but because it's consistent with what you experience in nature.

I find that learning about other religions even helps me understand my own religion better and gives me valuable insight that I would not have otherwise had if I just rejected them.

[Edited on 9-13-2003 by Kranar]

[peam]

The last line of Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History of Time." was a strong motivator in me believing there is something out there for us.

I've struggled for years on spirituality and religion. I still do, actually. I've moved from unbudging atheism in my middle to late teenage years to a pleasant state of borderline spirituality.

I'm hoping that sometime soon, I'll find a religion that allows me to express my beliefs in a manner suiting to my tastes.

I was raised as a protestant Christian, but I floated away from it obviously. Lately, I've been reading texts and essays on Christianity. I find Catholicism facinating, but I'm not sure if it's right for me.

I think the teachings of Jesus, used in a religious way or not, can and are used in a manner that promotes a good way of life. Right now, I don't use the teachings in a religious manner, but I do use them as a loose guideline for life.

That sure is a rambling post.

[Back]

Religion is personal. My grandparents took me to church where all these people gathered in front of this life sized statue of a man hanging on a cross, with blood painted on his hands and feet. That shit freaked me out.

Certain parts of the service I did enjoy... one part where everyone turned to the person next to them and said, "Peace be with you.", and the Lord's Prayer. (Episcopalian) What I really enjoyed was breakfast afterwards...

Organized religion freaks me out to this day. I've adopted the belief that religion is really internal. Its deeply personal. As I mentioned in a post earlier in this thread, we are all connected to the Whole, and its that connection that I find much more satisfying than some ritualistic gathering.

And I do not mean to say that people who do go to church are weird in any way. Its just not for me.