Considering returning. Been a long time.

[Kraydak21]

I'm thinking about playing again but not sure it's a good idea, think I left off around level 65 as a sorcerer and minimaxed my stats for implosion hunting. Last time I trialed in I found they'd implemented sorcerous teleportation but that was way outside my build, no improvements to what I did or how I played.

I'm not sure what else they've done to the sorcerer class in the past ?10? years but would like some feedback from anyone who does. Does hunting with CS actually take the same time now? Are you still dying all the time from CMs? I'd get so frustrated not caring about encumbrance only to get half-way and have a stone giant fall on me or a viper spit me in a bad way. Has *that* been fixed? I was an imploder, couldn't loot a thing for years but I kept a ton of stuff on me.

I also have no idea what the apparent micro-transaction system is all about but have read a little about it on here, I don't understand how it works or why they'd take that approach. I played GS as a 10 year old, back in the AOL days around 1992 or so at first and can remember getting yelled at for the $250/mo AOL connection fee by my parents.

After it migrated to GS IV I always kept my account standard and only went to a few events. Are the micro's a big thing now? How much, on average, are people paying in those in addition to normal account fees?

-Kraydak

[Mogonis]

Did you know that sorcs can now charge millions for hunting and gathering necro energy?

[Kraydak21]

No, never heard of it and wouldn't bother with it. Is that a real thing?

[Mogonis]

It's called ensorcelling, and only sorcs can do it. It's kind of like enchanting, but for sorcs. If you're hunting, you would want to bother with it. It's extra millions of coins.

https://gswiki.play.net/Ensorcell_(735)

[Kraydak21]

Ugh, runestaves. I can ensorcell a knife too? Double up fixskills and do it without that?

[Kraydak21]

So.. no answers to the CM deaths for a 'sorc' or the microcost system? Despite 50+ views. C'mon.

Bueller. Bueller. Bueller..

[Tgo01]

So.. no answers to the CM deaths for a 'sorc' or the microcost system? Despite 50+ views. C'mon.

Bueller. Bueller. Bueller..

Instant death CM still exist but they aren't usually too much of a problem if you train right and don't weigh yourself down with too much shit.

All of the micro transactions are getting a bit much for me lately but you can still play and level up and enjoy the game without them.

[Kraydak21]

Thanks Tgo. Is there a weight formula that was released?

[Tgo01]

Thanks Tgo. Is there a weight formula that was released?

I'm pretty sure it's all figured out on the wiki.

[subzero]

Thanks Tgo. Is there a weight formula that was released?

Yeah, it goes like this: prep 704, cast 704 at object, object weight = 0.

[Tgo01]

Yeah, it goes like this: prep 704, cast 704 at object, object weight = 0.

Too complicated for me. I'm done with this shit game.

[subzero]

Too complicated for me. I'm done with this shit game.

YEAH! Rabble rabble!

[drauz]

Too complicated for me. I'm done with this shit game.

Well there goes half the subscriber base.

[SonoftheNorth]

Well there goes half the subscriber base.

Actually Wyrom says thanks to duskruin subscriptions are up 1 trillion percent.

[LivderaDeralleur]

I am pretty sure you can also self-cast Phase on yourself for a boost to CM defense now - that was recently released.

There is also a new 716 spell that, when self-cast on yourself, basically acts like poison/disease flares. So even if a critter completely misses you, they can flare and kill or incapacitate. Too early to remember the actual name of the spell though.

[LivderaDeralleur]

Also 709 is now Grasp of the Grave - bunch of arms come out of the ground to pull down things in waves.

[SonoftheNorth]

I am pretty sure you can also self-cast Phase on yourself for a boost to CM defense now - that was recently released.

There is also a new 716 spell that, when self-cast on yourself, basically acts like poison/disease flares. So even if a critter completely misses you, they can flare and kill or incapacitate. Too early to remember the actual name of the spell though.

Pestilence

[Amerek]

It's really a different game for sorcerers these days. A good time to come back too.

[Roiken]

There is also no reason to carry your entire inventory on your person, Join a house, create a f2p mule, Many ways to avoid getting bogged down so that the insta CM deaths don't happen as often. Puncture protection from a warrior is easy and cheap to add to your armor pending you find the right and willing warrior. If your character is that much older GS3 days you may not be fully 1x'd in perception and physical fitness, that will help a whole lot in surviving most CM attacks.. You don't have to get involved in any micro transactions to enjoy the game.

[Tenlaar]

The main thing that you need to know is that nothing is more important to Simutronics at this point than releasing constant microtransaction events because $40 a month just isn't enough to get out of one customer for a text based game in 2017.

[Mogonis]

There is also no reason to carry your entire inventory on your person
I keep trying to tell Archales this.

[Jhynnifer]

You're going to find a lot of mechanical, as well as rp, changes in the game since you left. 99% of them are pretty awesome improvements. I'd suggest reading up on SMR (https://gswiki.play.net/Standard_maneuver_roll) on the wiki, they've made some great changes to allow pures better chances of evading cmans that take spell training into account. You'll also find that sorcerers are more fun to play than 10 years ago, especially with the changes to your spell circle and the implementation of ensorcell.

It's a good time to get back into playing if you enjoyed the game, regardless of the current state of simucoins. You are able to play the game without spending them, they just offer the chances to enhance your character mechanically and rp-wise that don't necessarily happen in other ways.

Definitely try coming back and see for yourself!

[nocturnix]

I have been playing on and off the past 10 or so years. I have to say right now it feels like server population and events are at an all time high for that period. I am having a blast with the game and can definately reccommend returning. GM team including the head GM Wyrom are working hard improving the game constantly. They have figured out how to extract more $$ from the playerbase using things like microtransactions and charging for events, but it is not absolutely necessary if you just want to play. If you want uber items and gear then you will likely start sinking some money into the game. People complain alot about this, but remember, the $$ goes to paying for a developer team and game designers to improve the game. So I have no complaints really. As for Sorcerers, alot has changed. There are some quality of life changes like all the extra benefits you get from training in mana controls (check the MANA verb), which I really love like multicast and mana spellup. Mana pulse is good for events like duskruin arena and reim.

As for encumberance, i dont know if they changed anything there. You should definately have locks on your containers and Phase them, however to reduce your weight. Unload everything you can. I am also bad about this on my Bard, he carries too much junk all the time, and I really have to force myself to unload stuff into lockers to keep at 0 encumberance. Post your training if you decide to come back, you will have a fixskill and we can help make sure you are setup for CM defense. I dont die to CMs that often on my 56 Wizard and my 59 pure bard. But i try to keep their encumberance to a minimum since I was dying alot to CMs when encumbered.

If you want to pick up boxes, you can do so, just try to start with 0 encumberance and unload your boxes at the Town Smith (automated locksmith, dont tell rogues you use it) every time you come back form a hunt to get back to 0 encumberance for your next hunt.

Anyways feel free to ask questions, I have a 50 sorc too, although I have stopped playing him as of late unfortunately.

[Tenlaar]

People complain alot about this, but remember, the $$ goes to paying for a developer team and game designers to improve the game.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/07/laughter.gif

[Neveragain]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/07/laughter.gif

LOL


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Tenlaar again.

[Methais]

I also have no idea what the apparent micro-transaction system is all about but have read a little about it on here, I don't understand how it works or why they'd take that approach. I played GS as a 10 year old, back in the AOL days around 1992 or so at first and can remember getting yelled at for the $250/mo AOL connection fee by my parents.

After it migrated to GS IV I always kept my account standard and only went to a few events. Are the micro's a big thing now? How much, on average, are people paying in those in addition to normal account fees?

-Kraydak

Simu wants to (and pretty much is) phase out silvers as a way to directly attain high end items because they want you to fork over hundreds/thousands in cash to do a special Simucoin only grind for said high end items.

If you want good gear at some point, start stocking your piggy bank. I'd probably recommend several piggy banks.

Sorcerers are in a really good place right now though.

[subzero]

People complain alot about this, but remember, the $$ goes to paying for a developer team and game designers to improve the game.

No. No it does not. Since I can't do it, slap the shit out of yourself for trying to spread this nonsense. The number of people that actually get paid to work on the game are very, very few. It's one of the big fundamental problems they have as a company, in my opinion.

[Mogonis]

No. No it does not. Since I can't do it, slap the shit out of yourself for trying to spread this nonsense. The number of people that actually get paid to work on the game are very, very few. It's one of the big fundamental problems they have as a company, in my opinion.
Pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

[Tgo01]

No. No it does not. Since I can't do it, slap the shit out of yourself for trying to spread this nonsense. The number of people that actually get paid to work on the game are very, very few. It's one of the big fundamental problems they have as a company, in my opinion.

I keep saying Simu could make a fortune giving speeches about how to get people to work for free.

One of their best lines is their defense to not hiring a full time coder; "but then our unpaid GMs would be upset because they aren't being pad."

So basically "Trust us, you don't want to get paid. That would destroy morale. You don't want to be the one that destroys morale, do you?"

[nocturnix]

No. No it does not. Since I can't do it, slap the shit out of yourself for trying to spread this nonsense. The number of people that actually get paid to work on the game are very, very few. It's one of the big fundamental problems they have as a company, in my opinion.

I am not being sarcastic.

The company has employees, even if it is few. you still have to consider overhead, billing, support, and other paid positions. Even if they manage to get alot of volunteer work, that does not mean the company has no costs. I also cant imagine there are 0 paid employees working on GS4, if that is what you are implying.



Anyways, case in point OP. People like to complain ALOT about GS4 making money.

[Tgo01]

The company has employees, even if it is few. you still have to consider overhead, billing, support, and other paid positions. Even if they manage to get alot of volunteer work, that does not mean the company has no costs. I also cant imagine there are 0 paid employees working on GS4, if that is what you are implying.

The last time Solomon discussed this the only paid employees he could mention (besides himself of course) was Chris in billing and the "IT guy." Of course their "IT guy" does a lot more than just work on GS.

Solomon then went on to say they employed something like 20 graphic artists, a team of music people, and other assorted employees all of who definitely do not work on GS.


Anyways, case in point OP. People like to complain ALOT about GS4 making money.

I have no problem with GS/Simu making money. What I have a problem with is Simu using GS as their personal ATM to fund their other games in the hopes of making the next Candy Crush game. No seriously, that's what Solomon said last time too, they are hoping to make the next Candy Crush and become billionaires overnight.

I wouldn't mind at all if the money was going back into GS and we saw some actual awesome game development instead of more and more microtransactions inspired "development."

[Stumplicker]

The last time Solomon discussed this the only paid employees he could mention (besides himself of course) was Chris in billing and the "IT guy." Of course their "IT guy" does a lot more than just work on GS.

Solomon then went on to say they employed something like 20 graphic artists, a team of music people, and other assorted employees all of who definitely do not work on GS.

Unless they're working on some sort of AAA game that nobody knows about, there's zero need for them to have 20 graphic artists. I'm pretty sure it's closer to the 2 total employees found in their business profile, plus one or two offsite, like Wyrom.

[Wrathbringer]

I made my own forum to get away from you guys but I can't stand it and have to come over all the time to spew nonsense.

Just...stop posting here.

[nocturnix]

The last time Solomon discussed this the only paid employees he could mention (besides himself of course) was Chris in billing and the "IT guy." Of course their "IT guy" does a lot more than just work on GS.

Solomon then went on to say they employed something like 20 graphic artists, a team of music people, and other assorted employees all of who definitely do not work on GS.


I have no problem with GS/Simu making money. What I have a problem with is Simu using GS as their personal ATM to fund their other games in the hopes of making the next Candy Crush game. No seriously, that's what Solomon said last time too, they are hoping to make the next Candy Crush and become billionaires overnight.

I wouldn't mind at all if the money was going back into GS and we saw some actual awesome game development instead of more and more microtransactions inspired "development."


Sounds to me like you dont know how many paid employees they have.

And as for reinvesting in other games, welcome to game studios. You use some of the revenue generated to keep your current titles running and earning money, with some improvements here and there and the rest goes into new projects. On a related note - I worked at two different "candy crush"-style mobile game studios. Trying to create a mobile game mega-hit like that is pretty naive and the odds are ridiculously stacked against you. Any company I see entering the mobile game market expecting that kind of success, I automatically consider them naive and out of their league. King had been making similar highly addictive browser-based puzzle games before mobile games even existed so the transition to mobile + their existing experience in the genre was perfect. Supercell (clash of clans) were making mobile games and failing since the Nokia "worm" days via Digital Chocolate so had already seen alot of failures and finally got it right with hayday/clash. Not to mention both companies got in VERY early. If you want to walz into the mobile game sphere now, be prepared to spend 5-10m on marketing alone, also considering a good mobile game takes 1-2 years dev time minimum. But yah, I dont think it is wise for them to re-invest in mobile games, unless it is what they know. But I am not familiar with their team and where their experience lies. I would consider a GS4 type mobile game interesting however.

[Tgo01]

Unless they're working on some sort of AAA game that nobody knows about, there's zero need for them to have 20 graphic artists. I'm pretty sure it's closer to the 2 total employees found in their business profile, plus one or two offsite, like Wyrom.

My bad. I went ahead and found the post and he doesn't list a number, he just says they have "large (and very exceptional) art department."


If it was me and "the billing dude" (who happens to be a billing chick, thank you), then yes, GS would be considered profitable, maybe even approaching "wildly" so (although if it was just me and the billing chick, I'd give her a raise and increase what we pay out to the GMs a great deal and then if there was anything left over, I'd give myself a raise, too).

But, we have an IT dude. We have a dude that deals with databases (billing, character, etc.). We have a dude that handles the game guts (engine, compiler, etc.).

Yes, those people also contribute to DR, MO, and AOH, so we're still doing pretty good. But, you're assuming that's all we do and it's not. Like most businesses, we don't choose to just sit back and be content, so we are constantly working to develop other products and therefore that means we have to work on other projects. So that means we have an office, complete with all the costs Sleken mentioned (and plenty more he didn't). We have an office manager. We have a business manager. We have a full development team. We have an audio team. We have a large (and very exceptional) art department (whom we also get to use for the IFE games, too). We have a QA team.

All of those things cost money and as other people have also pointed out, despite the fact that the player-base has diminished, those other costs have either stayed the same or increased. So, we run quests and pay events that give some players many things that they feel might make their playing time more enjoyable, but are purely optional. These are things that a lot of people want, but no one needs. We do everything we can, however, to make sure that everything you need in order to play and have fun is available for your basic subscription costs.

Would things be different if Tiny Heroes or Fantasy University or One Epic Knight were pulling in hundreds of thousands of dollars of money a year (or a month)? Pretty much definitely. Ditto if Dragons of Elanthia had taken off (::rimshot::). Until we develop and release a Puzzles and Dragons or a Clash of Clans, however, we put what we can back into the IFEs and continue to put the bulk toward new development, because if we didn't do that, we'd never manage to develop our Puzzle and Dragons of Clash of Clans.

For fuck's sake. SOLOMON himself admitted they put the "bulk" of the money from GS towards making the next Candy Crush game on fucking mobile games. Then you have to factor in the few paid employees who do work on GS (but is all really just maintenance and not development), how much is left over for actual GS development?

[Tgo01]

Sounds to me like you dont know how many paid employees they have.

From Solomon's own mouth they have like 5 paid employees that work on GS, over half of which also do other shit for the company.

[Stumplicker]

My bad. I went ahead and found the post and he doesn't list a number, he just says they have "large (and very exceptional) art department."

Oh I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was sort of just agreeing that whatever Solomon said about their "huge team" was probably a flaming pile of crap on the doorstep.

[Tgo01]

Oh yeah, I also found the laughable list of expenses Simu has to justify their ever increasing number of paid events and microtransactions:


In my real life job, people often exclaim, "You sure do charge a lot per hour!"

I often reply, "You should see how little of that I get to keep!"

So...just off the top of my head.


Possible expenses for Simutronics.

Salaries
Benefits
General Liability Insurance
Workers Compensation Insurance
Office Rent/Payments (I'd include any costs for space build out)
Office furniture
Utilities (Electric, Natural Gas/Propane, water and/or sewer, Trash service, TV)
Internet Connectivity
Servers and maybe hosting service
Accounting services
Credit Card processing service
Unemployment Security Taxes
Income taxes (Federal and state possible)
Travel Expenses
Software Licenses
Vehicle Expenses (Fuel, maintenance, tags, inspection fees)
Alarm Service (Security and Fire monitoring)
Sprinkler system inspection (annual)
Fire extinguisher inspection (annual)

I'm probably forgetting something, but the list is long enough.

Josh
SGM Sleken

[nocturnix]

Oh yeah, I also found the laughable list of expenses Simu has to justify their ever increasing number of paid events and microtransactions:

LOL, only Simutronics crazy-ass weird playerbase would make them post a list of expenses to justify charging money for their product. Craziness, kind of surprised they even wrote that response at all.

[Tgo01]

LOL, only Simutronics crazy-ass weird playerbase would make them post a list of expenses to justify charing money for their product.

That's what you took away from that comment? Not that they make enough money from GS + DR to literally fund an entire team of art developers and music composers and coders to work on other games but can't spare enough money to hire one full time coder to work on GS to bring us long awaited projects?

No one was "making" them do anything. People were upset, again, at the ever increasing number of microtransactions and were upset, again, that the money was not going back into GS. Solomon took it upon himself to justify the prices by saying they needed the money to strike it rich in the mobile gaming world and that oh yeah, they have to worry about things like office space, office furniture, and fire extinguisher inspections.

[nocturnix]

That's what you took away from that comment? Not that they make enough money from GS + DR to literally fund an entire team of art developers and music composers and coders to work on other games but can't spare enough money to hire one full time coder to work on GS to bring us long awaited projects?

No one was "making" them do anything. People were upset, again, at the ever increasing number of microtransactions and were upset, again, that the money was not going back into GS. Solomon took it upon himself to justify the prices by saying they needed the money to strike it rich in the mobile gaming world and that oh yeah, they have to worry about things like office space, office furniture, and fire extinguisher inspections.

How is money not going into GS? I love how you tend to ignore what is actually happening (like regular development updates nearly every month), and just say they dont invest any time or money in the game. You tend to ignore what is actually happening in front of you. Not to mention all the work they do on pay events, which yes generates revenue, but also generates fun minigames, storylines, and items for the playerbase. Or does that not count? Does updating spells, game mechanics, crit weighting, etc. also not count? Because you dont like the specific changes? Or because you think it was so easy a kid could have coded it? You make it sound as if they are letting the game stagnate and then dumping all the money into new projects. While they are investing heavily in new projects, the game is improving alot. There have been alot of great updates since I came back about 4 months ago.

[Jhynnifer]

Geezus, guys... is this really the thread for this? I'm all for grousing over the simucoin thing, but you're influencing a potential returning player and it would be better if he discovered it for himself.

I love you guys, but bad form. =(

[nocturnix]

Geezus, guys... is this really the thread for this? I'm all for grousing over the simucoin thing, but you're influencing a potential returning player and it would be better if he discovered it for himself.

I love you guys, but bad form. =(


This was definately not my intention, but I cant stand by when people endlessly bash Simu claiming they do nothing for improving the game. If you go back to my post, thats exactly the oposite of what I was saying. IMO they are managing the game well as of late, even if they are earning more money.

[Tgo01]

How is money not going into GS? I love how you tend to ignore what is actually happening (like regular development updates nearly every month), and just say they dont invest any time or money in the game. You tend to ignore what is actually happening in front of you.

I love how you tend to ignore what I actually said and instead reply to something I never said. I didn't say they don't "invest time or money in the game", I said people were upset about the ever increasing number of microtransactions and paid events and that THAT money wasn't going back into the game. Because as Solomon himself admitted the money goes towards paying these music composers and their "large (and very exceptional) art department." You think those music composers and "large art department" is working on GS?


Not to mention all the work they do on pay events, which yes generates revenue, but also generates fun minigames, storylines, and items for the playerbase.

No shit they work on pay events, that was my whole point. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall at this point.


Or does that not count? Does updating spells, game mechanics, crit weighting, etc. also not count? Because you dont like the specific changes? Or because you think it was so easy a kid could have coded it?

My God. Strawman alert over 10,000 mega joules!


You make it sound as if they are letting the game stagnate and then dumping all the money into new projects.

They aren't letting the game stagnate but they sure as fuck are dumping all the money into new projects. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see this.

And yeah, they've done some awesome things the past couple of years, but so far most of what they have done this year has been pretty uninspiring if you discount all of the things motivated by microtransactions/paid events.

[Tgo01]

Geezus, guys... is this really the thread for this? I'm all for grousing over the simucoin thing, but you're influencing a potential returning player and it would be better if he discovered it for himself.

I love you guys, but bad form. =(

The guy himself asked about microtransactions and paid events. Are we not supposed to discuss the questions the guy asked because the truth might turn him away?

[Tgo01]

This was definately not my intention, but I cant stand by when people endlessly bash Simu claiming they do nothing for improving the game.

I can't stand people who do nothing but engage in strawmans all day because they can't formulate a coherent on topic argument.

[Duskruin]

Guys, Stillfront filings already suggest that Simu's strategy is to "use revenue from existing games to fund future projects."

Also, the only way they could re-invest back into Gemstone is if they pay their GMs more money. This is actually what I'm super curious about, exactly how much money do GMs get per hour of work? and are they getting a cut from all these micro-transactions?

From how the recent Smithy roll out was handled I don't even think Wyrom is the main coder for GS, there's someone much more adept at the Gemstone language than him who does the heavy legwork (again purely speculation but some evidence points to this.)

[nocturnix]

I can't stand people who do nothing but engage in strawmans all day because they can't formulate a coherent on topic argument.
Yah i'm done here. But congrats on your handy straw man retort that you love to use when someone argues with you about something you dont like. And you claiming GS does not invest money back into the game is not a straw man argument. You said it about ten times, i merely showed you examples of how they ARE working on the game. That is called presenting counter-examples of your argument that they are not doing dev work on the game. Which you implied when you said they have no fulltime coder and are not working on "long awaited projects".


Guys, Stillfront filings already suggest that Simu's strategy is to "use revenue from existing games to fund future projects."

Yes, that is the strategy of nearly every game studio ever. Sitting on one game and reinvesting all your money back into just that one game until the end of time is not the best strategy if you want to make $$. If you are doing it as a hobby, or volunteer thing, sure. But I think Simu and Stillfront are in the business of making money...?

[Tgo01]

[/COLOR]Yah i'm done here. But congrats on your handy straw man retort that you love to use when someone argues with you about something you dont like.

"Good job on using the term 'strawman' correctly! I don't understand why you don't just argue against the points I made up that you made to begin with!!!!" Are you also Stumplicker or what? Cause you sure are sounding like him at the moment.


And you claiming GS does not invest money back into the game is not a straw man argument. You said it about ten times, i merely showed you examples of how they ARE working on the game.

I didn't say they aren't investing time or money into this fucking game. Go on. Quote me. Quote me just once saying Simu isn't investing time or money in this game. Oh right. You're "done here" so we can't expect you to be a man and back up your pathetic fucking arguments.

[nocturnix]

"Good job on using the term 'strawman' correctly! I don't understand why you don't just argue against the points I made up that you made to begin with!!!!" Are you also Stumplicker or what? Cause you sure are sounding like him at the moment.



I didn't say they aren't investing time or money into this fucking game. Go on. Quote me. Quote me just once saying Simu isn't investing time or money in this game. Oh right. You're "done here" so we can't expect you to be a man and back up your pathetic fucking arguments.

No you said you cant stand how they are using money to fund new projects meanwhile the game doesnt even have a full-time coder. Then I mentioned examples of game improvements they did recently, to refute your assertion that they are not reinvesting (in your opinion enough) in game development. Or did I miss something here? How is that a straw man argument. Please do tell.

Oh right, and you wanted a quote:


Not that they make enough money from GS + DR to literally fund an entire team of art developers and music composers and coders to work on other games but can't spare enough money to hire one full time coder to work on GS to bring us long awaited projects?

There is you claiming they dont reinvest enough in GS. Jeez, gettin all nitpicky about it. ;-)

[Tgo01]

Yes, that is the strategy of nearly every game studio ever. Sitting on one game and reinvesting all your money back into just that one game until the end of time is not the best strategy if you want to make $$.[/COLOR]

This is like a classic example of a strawman. If you don't want someone to call out your strawman bullshit then stop making strawman arguments. Who said they should invest ALL of the money they make back into GS?

Asking for some full time coders is asking them to invest ALL of their money back into GS? GS has personally funded the development of DR and a half dozen other failed text based games. It funded that graphical engine thingie that made Whately a lot of money. It also funded about 3 failed mobile games and a failed Facebook game. It also funded the failed Dragons of Elanthia. But asking for just ONE full time coder for GS so we can move Savants from "Never going to happen" to "Maybe soon" is asking too much of Simu?

Get the fuck out of here.

[Tgo01]

No you said you cant stand how they are using money to fund new projects meanwhile the game doesnt even have a full-time coder.

EXACTLY! Is that such a horrible thing to ask for? One measly fucking full time dedicated coder after all these decades?

[Duskruin]

This is like a classic example of a strawman. If you don't want someone to call out your strawman bullshit then stop making strawman arguments. Who said they should invest ALL of the money they make back into GS?

Asking for some full time coders is asking them to invest ALL of their money back into GS? GS has personally funded the development of DR and a half dozen other failed text based games. It funded that graphical engine thingie that made Whately a lot of money. It also funded about 3 failed mobile games and a failed Facebook game. It also funded the failed Dragons of Elanthia. But asking for just ONE full time coder for GS so we can move Savants from "Never going to happen" to "Maybe soon" is asking too much of Simu?

Get the fuck out of here.

Check and mate right here. Hard to argue with this.

[nocturnix]

This is like a classic example of a strawman. If you don't want someone to call out your strawman bullshit then stop making strawman arguments. Who said they should invest ALL of the money they make back into GS?

Asking for some full time coders is asking them to invest ALL of their money back into GS? GS has personally funded the development of DR and a half dozen other failed text based games. It funded that graphical engine thingie that made Whately a lot of money. It also funded about 3 failed mobile games and a failed Facebook game. It also funded the failed Dragons of Elanthia. But asking for just ONE full time coder for GS so we can move Savants from "Never going to happen" to "Maybe soon" is asking too much of Simu?
Get the fuck out of here.

You claiming that I dont think GS needs a coder would be a straw man argument as well, would it not? I mean we can go on and on if you want to call out every straw man argument in this place.

My statement from the beginning was that they are making improvements to the game, and also have improved monetization on the game as well. Do we have savants as you mentioned? No, and i dont really care about that anyways. I care the game keeps moving forward with solid improvements which it has. Something you also agreed with me on. 2017 is still young, i think its not fair to judge just yet.

Would it be nice to have more development time for GS? Sure it would, but again the company's strategy has been to reinvest in other projects. Something I dont blame them for. I'm happy we are still getting fairly regular updates. Even if most of them are low hanging fruit.

But your attitude from the beginning was that they are not doing very much at all. And that they have a huge team and investment in other projects. I dont disagree with you about the second part, and the paid GS team is small thats obvious. But the game is what almost 30 years old. A full time coder would be nice, but I also dont blame them for using part-timers, volunteers and whatever other methods they use. As long as they are getting improvements done.

Are you that excited about savants anyways? Just the name of the class already makes me think of Rainman, and idiot savants.

[Tgo01]

You claiming that I dont think GS needs a coder would be a straw man argument as well, would it not? I mean we can go on and on if you want to call out every straw man argument in this place.

If you agree with me then why are you disagreeing with me? Cause I have never made the argument that Simutronics should invest all of their money back into GS or that they don't invest any money or time into GS.


Sure it would, but again the company's strategy has been to reinvest in other projects.

Other projects which have thus far all failed. Except that graphical engine thingie which technically was a failed project because it was supposed to be an actual graphical game that never came out. They instead just sold the engine. And I'm just assuming it actually made money, for all I know it was a net loss too.


But your attitude from the beginning was that they are not doing very much at all.

For how much money they are making they really aren't. I'm not saying this to put down the GMs themselves because I realize they don't do this for a living and they are now apparently being incentivized to work on more and more microtransactions/paid events. I'm laying this blame at Simu's feet. This isn't something that just sprung up overnight, people have been making these same demands for decades now and Simu's response has pretty much always been the same.


Are you that excited about savants anyways?

No, it's just funny that the class has been in the character creation screen for literally over a decade now and Estild himself said we will never see Savants. It's just yet another item in a long list of promised features that never came to be because they don't have the resources to make this shit a reality, but they somehow muster up the resources to make microtransaction after microtransaction and paid event after paid event, and the money can't be used to hire more GMs or even a full time paid coder to work on this extremely long backlog.

What I am "excited" about is more guilds being finished, but guess what? Estild said we would probably see Savants before we see another guild in this game, and he already said don't hold your breath on ever seeing savants.

[Tenlaar]

It really is pretty telling that they haven't even bothered to remove "Savants coming soon!" from character creation after they decided that they weren't actually coming at all.

Guess they haven't had a player volunteer to do that for free yet.

[subzero]

The company has employees, even if it is few. you still have to consider overhead, billing, support, and other paid positions. Even if they manage to get alot of volunteer work, that does not mean the company has no costs. I also cant imagine there are 0 paid employees working on GS4, if that is what you are implying.


Overhead, billing, support, etc are not a development team that you were saying money goes to. Of course a business has costs. No one is arguing that. I also never said there were zero employees working on Gemstone. What I said, quite clearly, in reference to, "the $$ goes to paying for a developer team and game designers to improve the game" was that the amount of people this applies to is very few. Sure, they probably have one, maybe two people that are actually paid and work on Gemstone development. Hell, maybe this 'development team' is as large as three people. I dunno. Regardless, the vast majority of the work they have done for them is via volunteers.

Most of the money they make from Gemstone does not go back into Gemstone. This is just the reality of the situation. A small portion of it does, sure. Like I said, there are likely a handful (2-3) of people that are paid developers for the product. With the money they make, they could do a lot more. Savants could be a thing (other than a really long running joke), spell lists could be filled out on the higher end, and a whole myriad of other things could be done if they actually paid a legit team of devs to work on the product.

As we all know, they won't do that. The structure of the company itself is why they end up with so many half-finished or pipe-dream projects that never get off the ground. It's hard to force volunteers to do quality work on projects the individual doesn't care about. Hell, look at the stupid policy they have on ownership of various items and their scripts. How many things are out there that no current GM can even work with because they don't own or understand the code to do something like unlock another tier of scripts or make other changes to those items?


Oh yeah, I also found the laughable list of expenses Simu has to justify their ever increasing number of paid events and microtransactions:

They have company vehicles? What the fuck?


How is money not going into GS? I love how you tend to ignore what is actually happening (like regular development updates nearly every month), and just say they dont invest any time or money in the game. You tend to ignore what is actually happening in front of you. Not to mention all the work they do on pay events, which yes generates revenue, but also generates fun minigames, storylines, and items for the playerbase. Or does that not count? Does updating spells, game mechanics, crit weighting, etc. also not count? Because you dont like the specific changes? Or because you think it was so easy a kid could have coded it? You make it sound as if they are letting the game stagnate and then dumping all the money into new projects. While they are investing heavily in new projects, the game is improving alot. There have been alot of great updates since I came back about 4 months ago.

Those things are mostly done by volunteers. Also known as developers that are not getting paid.


This was definately not my intention, but I cant stand by when people endlessly bash Simu claiming they do nothing for improving the game. If you go back to my post, thats exactly the oposite of what I was saying. IMO they are managing the game well as of late, even if they are earning more money.

We weren't bashing Simu. We were simply laughing at the notion you have that they actually put a half-respectable amount of money they make into a development team for the game. What you believe simply is not true. It's a statement of fact, not bashing.


Also, the only way they could re-invest back into Gemstone is if they pay their GMs more money. This is actually what I'm super curious about, exactly how much money do GMs get per hour of work? and are they getting a cut from all these micro-transactions?

From how the recent Smithy roll out was handled I don't even think Wyrom is the main coder for GS, there's someone much more adept at the Gemstone language than him who does the heavy legwork (again purely speculation but some evidence points to this.)

I think it's more that they could use additional developers (those who treat it as a job and not a hobby; employee vs volunteer, if you will) than those they do have needing a raise. Giving the few more money isn't going to get more work done.


Are you that excited about savants anyways? Just the name of the class already makes me think of Rainman, and idiot savants.

It's not just about savants. It's been so damn long now that I can't quite say this for sure, but didn't they announce the three new classes around the time they were moving into GSIV? Do you comprehend the amount of time it took them to make Paladins and then Monks? We're, what, about 13 years later and only two of those three 'announced' professions have made it to the game with the third not even being considered anymore? Stop and think about that for a few minutes. It's absolutely horrible.


It really is pretty telling that they haven't even bothered to remove "Savants coming soon!" from character creation after they decided that they weren't actually coming at all.

Guess they haven't had a player volunteer to do that for free yet.

It's a ton of work to edit a website. It used to really annoy the shit out of me when people tried to say, through little fault of their own I guess, that the disease spell was affected by necromancy lore. In an effort to actually get info in before the web editing went dormant for several years, someone mentioned in the spell descriptions that the lore would affect the spell before anyone even had ideas to implement, let alone actually start the code. There has never been a single moment that necro lore affected Disease.

[Methais]

Sounds to me like you dont know how many paid employees they have.

And as for reinvesting in other games, welcome to game studios. You use some of the revenue generated to keep your current titles running and earning money, with some improvements here and there and the rest goes into new projects. On a related note - I worked at two different "candy crush"-style mobile game studios. Trying to create a mobile game mega-hit like that is pretty naive and the odds are ridiculously stacked against you. Any company I see entering the mobile game market expecting that kind of success, I automatically consider them naive and out of their league. King had been making similar highly addictive browser-based puzzle games before mobile games even existed so the transition to mobile + their existing experience in the genre was perfect. Supercell (clash of clans) were making mobile games and failing since the Nokia "worm" days via Digital Chocolate so had already seen alot of failures and finally got it right with hayday/clash. Not to mention both companies got in VERY early. If you want to walz into the mobile game sphere now, be prepared to spend 5-10m on marketing alone, also considering a good mobile game takes 1-2 years dev time minimum. But yah, I dont think it is wise for them to re-invest in mobile games, unless it is what they know. But I am not familiar with their team and where their experience lies. I would consider a GS4 type mobile game interesting however.

You might want to check out the company that bought Simu then. Stillfront's entire model is based on acquiring old bullshit games (like GS) that have a loyal player base with the intent of using revenue from those games to fund what they hope would be the next Candy Crush.

Whatley was no different. I just think he may have finally realized after Dragons of Elanthia was a massive failure that his ideas today suck fat greasy balls, and I guess finally accepting that he's not gonna make a AAA title for Gemstone GM pay.

But the Stillfront model just reinforces what people are saying. Simu puts very little back into GS, and most of what they do put back into it is for shit like giving bonuses to GMs who code microtransaction events. Normal events too, but there's no such thing as a normal event anymore. It's all a big truck stop now.

[Methais]

This was definately not my intention, but I cant stand by when people endlessly bash Simu claiming they do nothing for improving the game. If you go back to my post, thats exactly the oposite of what I was saying. IMO they are managing the game well as of late, even if they are earning more money.

Now just imagine what it would be like if they actually had even one full time coder. Them trying to say they couldn't afford even one full time coder is total bullshit and everyone knows it.

[Kraydak21]

I have been playing on and off the past 10 or so years. I have to say right now it feels like server population and events are at an all time high for that period. I am having a blast with the game and can definately reccommend returning. GM team including the head GM Wyrom are working hard improving the game constantly. They have figured out how to extract more $$ from the playerbase using things like microtransactions and charging for events, but it is not absolutely necessary if you just want to play. If you want uber items and gear then you will likely start sinking some money into the game. People complain alot about this, but remember, the $$ goes to paying for a developer team and game designers to improve the game. So I have no complaints really. As for Sorcerers, alot has changed. There are some quality of life changes like all the extra benefits you get from training in mana controls (check the MANA verb), which I really love like multicast and mana spellup. Mana pulse is good for events like duskruin arena and reim.

As for encumberance, i dont know if they changed anything there. You should definately have locks on your containers and Phase them, however to reduce your weight. Unload everything you can. I am also bad about this on my Bard, he carries too much junk all the time, and I really have to force myself to unload stuff into lockers to keep at 0 encumberance. Post your training if you decide to come back, you will have a fixskill and we can help make sure you are setup for CM defense. I dont die to CMs that often on my 56 Wizard and my 59 pure bard. But i try to keep their encumberance to a minimum since I was dying alot to CMs when encumbered.

If you want to pick up boxes, you can do so, just try to start with 0 encumberance and unload your boxes at the Town Smith (automated locksmith, dont tell rogues you use it) every time you come back form a hunt to get back to 0 encumberance for your next hunt.

Anyways feel free to ask questions, I have a 50 sorc too, although I have stopped playing him as of late unfortunately.

Thank you, appreciate the response. I'm not worried about silvers or uber gear, never been my priority, my wife's characters made a boatload and I'm set on that front.

[Kraydak21]

I am pretty sure you can also self-cast Phase on yourself for a boost to CM defense now - that was recently released.

There is also a new 716 spell that, when self-cast on yourself, basically acts like poison/disease flares. So even if a critter completely misses you, they can flare and kill or incapacitate. Too early to remember the actual name of the spell though.

That's pretty cool, old phase was useless. 716 used to just be disease, right? I'm a little rusty.

[Kraydak21]

Also 709 is now Grasp of the Grave - bunch of arms come out of the ground to pull down things in waves.

Is that an open spell, meaning players that enter the room are possibly targeted? Or just mobs? How long do the waves last, like a maelstrom minute?

[Kraydak21]

There is also no reason to carry your entire inventory on your person, Join a house, create a f2p mule, Many ways to avoid getting bogged down so that the insta CM deaths don't happen as often. Puncture protection from a warrior is easy and cheap to add to your armor pending you find the right and willing warrior. If your character is that much older GS3 days you may not be fully 1x'd in perception and physical fitness, that will help a whole lot in surviving most CM attacks.. You don't have to get involved in any micro transactions to enjoy the game.

This is also interesting to me. Always had a near full locker in a house but always played Standard with a 2nd character (or a few more) that was/were unhoused. I think I went to 1x on perc and fitness through 30 then went .5x after, those weigh into the failure rate (then??) now?

[Kraydak21]

You're going to find a lot of mechanical, as well as rp, changes in the game since you left. 99% of them are pretty awesome improvements. I'd suggest reading up on SMR (https://gswiki.play.net/Standard_maneuver_roll) on the wiki, they've made some great changes to allow pures better chances of evading cmans that take spell training into account. You'll also find that sorcerers are more fun to play than 10 years ago, especially with the changes to your spell circle and the implementation of ensorcell.

It's a good time to get back into playing if you enjoyed the game, regardless of the current state of simucoins. You are able to play the game without spending them, they just offer the chances to enhance your character mechanically and rp-wise that don't necessarily happen in other ways.

Definitely try coming back and see for yourself!

Very informative. And additive to my previous response to the poster recommending perception and fitness. I always played with knife and shield as a sorcerer, flashback to books I read as a kid, and kept shield use at 1x and its cool that it is weighed in to SMR in some points. When I left I did not really understand cloak of shadows (it was relatively new) and didn't cast it a lot, nice to see that on the list as well.

[Kraydak21]

On the business side-front, I'm actually shocked that things like monks and paladins ever came about, or sorcerers teleportation (old to a lot of you, I'm sure). These are things that I had just plain given up on. I remember moving to GS4 over a summer with all those hopes and promises of being able to create a sorcerer and summon a demon though its function was never defined. I think that was around 1994 and I was 12 years old. Certain things never happened and I'd decided they wouldn't but it didn't detract me or deter me from playing, they just were the lay of the land.

This company lost me (and others) when they charged more than WoW for a standard account on a text based game that didn't deliver those continued promises for too long of a period of time. Emphasis on 'too long of a period'. I'm constantly nostalgic for the interactions and the people I knew in Gemstone and it was always a price-base v Value decision. Now as a software technical manager for a large company my decisions are different and what I do in my free time is not a value choice. But if they had a serious flaw in their plan, that's what I identify; that and not accepting my many applications to help program this shiz. :D

[Jhynnifer]

Very informative. And additive to my previous response to the poster recommending perception and fitness. I always played with knife and shield as a sorcerer, flashback to books I read as a kid, and kept shield use at 1x and its cool that it is weighed in to SMR in some points. When I left I did not really understand cloak of shadows (it was relatively new) and didn't cast it a lot, nice to see that on the list as well.

You can definitely still play as a knife and board sorc, but I would challenge you to try swapping to a runestaff and see just how much farther you can push yourself... because runestaves are where it's definitely at. =)

[Gizmo]

I have been enjoying my UAC sorcerer. I haven't had much issue with UAC, nothing dragonsclaw scrolls or merchant potions can't solve that I've used.

It pairs well with open handed casting for 702 as well and other things

[audioserf]

If you want to keep your shield as a sorc you could run brawl/shield and benefit from strong DS without risk of being disarmed. Runestaff is awesome for flares etc (in addition to being free DS) but there's something appealing about never risking item loss.

[Maerit]

With the changes to spells that improve their power open-handed, using the "sword & board" style actually reduces many spells in power. Brawling & Shield at least allows you to keep your right hand open to have the same casting power as you'd have with a runestaff.

[subzero]

If you want to keep your shield as a sorc you could run brawl/shield and benefit from strong DS without risk of being disarmed. Runestaff is awesome for flares etc (in addition to being free DS) but there's something appealing about never risking item loss.

I never worried about item loss with runestaves, either. 0x staves are pretty cheap off the shelf. Add an eblade and off ya go!