End Game Bow - Sighting?

[Tenser]

My ranger is 60th level right now, with 100 ranks ambush and fully 2x trained in perception. For foes around his level, he hits the eyes both open and from hiding quite often (4 out of 5 maybe?). However, against creatures 8 to 10 levels over his level, he misses the eyes enough that I'm wondering if I should think about getting his crossbow sighted.

For those archers who are capped, can you hit 110th level monsters in the eye reliably without sighting? Do you think sighting would help if not?

[Archigeek]

I can't speak for bows, but as someone who regularly hunts the scatter, (levels 100-115), missing your targets is pretty common even with optimal training when you're uphunting that much. I'm guessing that with hurling an axe I'm hitting the head when aiming about 70% of the time. Sighting isn't an option for me of course, and I'm glad of it as I'd rather have the weighting that I do have. Hey, maybe next week I can have both? WpS anyone?

[Comodus]

Is there a point to uphunting if you're not capped? You get to fried like 3 minutes faster?

[Roblar]

Sighting is weighting. I don't think it reduces EBP or lets you hit a spot better.

It just adds crit to when it hits. Being puncture damage that is especially useful.

[Roblar]

Is there a point to uphunting if you're not capped? You get to fried like 3 minutes faster?

Challenge, loot, fame.

[Comodus]

EBP can be deadly if you're an offensive build. you're counting on that stun or leg shot to incapacitate sux when you're stuck in mstrike rt holding your twohander and a prayer that you don't get hit.

[Arqueto]

Sighting is weighting. I don't think it reduces EBP or lets you hit a spot better.

It just adds crit to when it hits. Being puncture damage that is especially useful.

Per the wiki:

"Sighting is the ranged version of critical weighting. It follows the same scale as crit and damage weighting (i.e. 10 points is "heavy" sighting). Unlike critical weighting, however, sighting helps hit targets more accurately rather than increasing the crit rank of a wound."

https://gswiki.play.net/Sighting

[Archigeek]

Sighting is weighting. I don't think it reduces EBP or lets you hit a spot better.

It just adds crit to when it hits. Being puncture damage that is especially useful.

Actually it does allow you to hit the spot better, but there are limits. From the Wiki:


Sighting is the ranged version of critical weighting. It follows the same scale as crit and damage weighting (i.e. 10 points is "heavy" sighting). Unlike critical weighting, however, sighting helps hit targets more accurately rather than increasing the crit rank of a wound.

Read more here, good luck Tenser, I think you'll find that there is a diminishing return.

https://gswiki.play.net/Sighting

[Roblar]

Ah right, I just went off the assess.

[Archigeek]

Ah right, I just went off the assess.

Yeah, the assessment is a bit deceptive, maybe that will get rectified with the upcoming assessment improvements! Also, there really isn't that much information on the wiki about how it works and what the limitations are.

[Roblar]

Yea I had also read that similar to crit weighting with ambushers becoming redundant at some point, same for sighting.

I'm not sure if that meant sniping (and so an increased weighting?) or just that skills at a certain point don't really miss much and so its wasted on the item (cap-postcap).

Maybe someone can do testing or point out where for Tenser.

I checked Art of the Bow but same limited for sighting thresholds:

https://gswiki.play.net/Art_of_the_Bow_(guide)#Sighting

[Tenser]

Thanks Archigeek. I've read anecdotal opinions that you get diminishing returns on archived posts here on the PC, but some of that is from older posts where maybe 110+ level creatures weren't around to fight. Most of the older posts were saying "I hit eyes all the time without sighting, so I don't need it".

I'm specifically asking, does a capped archer see the need for sighting to help with hitting eyes for creatures well over 100th level? Apparently from your experience with the thrown axe is that you only hit the head maybe 70% of the time with 100-115 level monsters. I assume your head hit % is much higher on like leveled opponents?

In the past consensus seemed to have been that sighting wasn't worth it for highly trained characters, but with the new reality of the opportunity to fight much high level foes does that still hold true? If sighting seems to help against those high level fores, I may start a sighting project for my crossbow with the new W/P/S system.

[BriarFox]

Well, my philosophy on sighting is that you don't really need it but it can't hurt, so throw it on. Heck, I just added sighting to my e-bow.

[Tenser]

Yes, but I'm a frugal bastard. I don't have the extra wealth to toss around willy nilly. I need to apply my wealth in at least an attempt to be intelligent about it.

[Tenser]

Which e-bow do you have?

[Comodus]

personally I think ranged needs a revamp of sorts. Wouldn't a 5 or 6 second rt added pre attack to a person trying to attack a ranged user to simulate closing distance make more sense than a flat DS bonus to the ranged user?

really don't see why they can't just cut and paste the engagement system in DR although the balancing aspects of that is going to be a nightmare.

[Tenser]

personally I think ranged needs a revamp of sorts. Wouldn't a 5 or 6 second rt added pre attack to a person trying to attack a ranged user to simulate closing distance make more sense than a flat DS bonus to the ranged user?

really don't see why they can't just cut and paste the engagement system in DR although the balancing aspects of that is going to be a nightmare.

That's a bit off topic.

[Whirlin]

That's a bit off topic.
It's Macgyver, of course it is.

I'd prioritize fusion over sighting for more AS out of your weapon (since perfect isn't an option). But, even fusion isn't mutually exclusive with sighting. Other bits come down to playstyle and how you manage your arrows... as a ranger, your raw enchant on your bow probably doesn't matter, as it's just more DS... you want 6x to use just ebladed arrows rather than fletched... then fusion/sighting would be secondary mods. Both would be the best, but costly.

[Tenser]

Thanks Whirlin. My ranger is a halfling, so he uses a mechanical crossbow to avoid the long firing RTs. I think fusion is not an option for me given that. The crossbow is 5x now, and the price for sighting will go up if I enchant it or get it ensorcelled. If I decide to sight, then I need to add sighting first for the next couple of years. If not, then i'll enchant it to 6x and get some ensorcelling done.

I could probably go the route you suggest and go with a fusion bow(and find +15 worth of strength bonus orbs/enhancives), but I created this ranger when archery first came out as a crossbowman. Then the mechanics were changed to take into account strength in firing and cocking RT (and my halflings strength was 65), so I started carrying 5 light crossbows around all fully cocked and ready to fire...but the constant fight to manage all 5 crossbows and the bolts wore me down. I bought an e-bow and used that instead for a couple years until I sold my stuff around 2001. In 2004 I briefly reactivated just to reallocate stats, and moved his strength to 100. Fast forward to 2016 and once I started playing again my options were to go back to cocking and loading 5 light crossbows deja vu or deal 5 with second RTs shooting a long bow. Before I could make up my mind, this strange Duskruin thing came along selling mechanical crossbows and I couldn't resist. I love the option of kneeling when I need some extra pop and the ability to re-hide after 2 seconds with 608 and load during the casting RT is pretty nice.

So, let's pretend fusion isn't an option at this point. Do I spend the next couple of years sighting a 5x mechanical crossbow, or so I enchant it to 6x(or even 7x) and throw on some ensorcelling and call it good?

[Wrathbringer]

It's Macgyver, of course it is.

I'd prioritize fusion over sighting for more AS out of your weapon (since perfect isn't an option). But, even fusion isn't mutually exclusive with sighting. Other bits come down to playstyle and how you manage your arrows... as a ranger, your raw enchant on your bow probably doesn't matter, as it's just more DS... you want 6x to use just ebladed arrows rather than fletched... then fusion/sighting would be secondary mods. Both would be the best, but costly.

Do your job.

[Tenser]

Do your job.

Ya ya, but what's your opinion on sighting for a capped archer?

[khorpulent]

Don't think you can player enchant those mechanical crossbows from DR. They do sell a 6x version, though.

[Wrathbringer]

Don't think you can player enchant those mechanical crossbows from DR. They do sell a 6x version, though.

You can enchant them.

[Tenser]

Thanks to those who tried to help with opinions and advice. I decided to go with BriarFox's advice and throw some sighting on the crossbow.

[Destrier]

The only real example where I can see the difference is the Arena. Where I am assuming the creatures are a little older as the matches progress. Shooting bow on eye first 4 per group and then head and eye on champions. I averaged 4:30 per run. (having misses on eyes is the largest factor for me in having slower arena run times)
A perfect run, with no eye misses was 3:52. So for me, I am adding sighting to my bow as I had none during these arena runs in DR.

Aurach

[neimanz1]

Thanks to those who tried to help with opinions and advice. I decided to go with BriarFox's advice and throw some sighting on the crossbow.

not sure how good your crossbow is but it might be cheaper to just buy one with heavily sighting already. I think i have a 5x already heavily sighted mechanical crossbow in my shop for like 20 mil or something

[Tenser]

It's 5x, max light, and T1. It will cost around 22k BS to get it to 150 services (and 2 years), so yours is cheaper. All I would lose is one ensorcell and the trips to the merchant to lighten, which isn't bad.

[Daiyon]

Don't think you can player enchant those mechanical crossbows from DR. They do sell a 6x version, though.

You can. I took mine to 7x.