Weighting Padding Sighting changes

[Ososis]

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Hunting%20and%20Combat/Announcements/thread/1854436?get_newest=true

Don't know how to do a chart so I wont. This is fucking garbage and everything about it is shit. Discuss.

[Tylec]

So if I'm reading the chart correctly. It'll take me 1000 pts to move something from masterful to expertly. The scale with surcharges rapes you after 20 services in a 60 day window. Assuming 1 service = 1 point it'll only take me like 8 years to move my weapon to the next level. Good fucking system! Much better than waiting for an auction or RtCF type event.

[Ososis]

Yeah. My isssue isn't the scale so much as the huge increase in services needed, it's designed it to just take more money and silvers from everybody and I am sure force people into the new events/currencies to keep your project rolling. Most of the time you are literally using full service for 0 changes to an item. How dumb.

[gilchristr]

"Simply put, the amount of W/P/S needed to go from old style 39 to 40 points (100) is significantly more than the amount needed to go from old style 4 to 5 (10) points"

This is not simply put, lol. Simply put, the new system uses diminishing returns.

[Viekn]

If only you could cap in this game with just 4x/5x gear! Dammit!

[Ososis]

If only you could cap in this game with just 4x/5x gear! Dammit!

it's 4x, but what does that have to do with changing weighting/padding services?

[Neveragain]

https://media.giphy.com/media/1kvrxH5UjWezK/giphy.gif

[Ososis]

Neveragain, your standards of enjoyment are as disappointing as your shit posts. Do better.

[Neveragain]

Neveragain, your standards of enjoyment are as disappointing as your shit posts. Do better.

If by standards of enjoyment you mean not dropping $100's of dollars on slot machines that pay out hot garbage, yes you're right.

[Ososis]

If by standards of enjoyment you mean not dropping $100's of dollars on slot machines that pay out hot garbage, yes you're right.

Yup, that's totally it.

[Viekn]

it's 4x, but what does that have to do with changing weighting/padding services?

Just that everyone was already making a big stink about the changes, but really, padding/weighting is just a nice plus to have on your gear and not necessarily needed, so maybe no need to make such a big stink?

[Ososis]

Just that everyone was already making a big stink about the changes, but really, padding/weighting is just a nice plus to have on your gear and not necessarily needed, so maybe no need to make such a big stink?

Do you think using the 25 service limit every duskruin for 3 years to get HCP is a good change?
Do you NOT think this is a tactic to get people into shit events and crap new currencies because they made the the increment of advancement so minuscule?

EDIT the stink was never about the changes to the scale. It was about how they would make you have to attend every event for a decade to get something decent. which they did. Playerbase smelled it, called it, and nailed it.

[kcostell]

I'm disappointed in the timing of things. They make the forge the big selling point of the entire Duskruin run, but don't announce the crazy amount of services needed until people have already bought/used most of their books.

Feels like borderline bait-and-switch.

[Methais]

Selling ECP double MB 400m will accept cash at $75 per.

[Methais]

I'm disappointed in the timing of things. They make the forge the big selling point of the entire Duskruin run, but don't announce the crazy amount of services needed until people have already bought/used most of their books.

Feels like Tuesday at Simutronics.

Fixed.

[Ososis]

I'm disappointed in the timing of things. They make the forge the big selling point of the entire Duskruin run, but don't announce the crazy amount of services needed until people have already bought/used most of their books.

Feels like borderline bait-and-switch.

Yeah, they could have easily explained that the weight/padding from smithy was capped at 2 points...Wonder why they didn't? hmmmmm.

Edit "we are gonna give you !!25!! services! WOW!" (but those services are shit, shhhhhh)

[Hoodtralfeck]

so it dont say on the post in that other forums site , and i dont have a profile on it to post this question . can we have weighting put on weapons that have flares AND BANE on it already?

[MrMortimur]

I find the change interesting and continues their trend of rewarding continual participation, ie dailiy login rewards, free monthly simucoins. If there is the chance at 1-2 w/p/s every 60 days than you could always make progress. Before you'd have years of no progress than the mad rush for rtcf and the HOPE of jumping up 10 levels of padding/weighting. How many people owned something MCP/MCW for the first time in 20 years after rtcf/ccf? Now someone with HCP armor from Sadie(150 pts), they'd need 60 service points to make that item very heavily padded. (210 pts). Another 90 pts would give you something assessing as exceptional (300 pts).

This would just be the assessed wording for epeen there would still be the mechanical benefits of the layers of padding in between even if most of us would never notice from one hit to another.

[Comodus]

Wow. Talk about a game changer. I had like an essay written up but I just deleted it. I mean I have no clue where to begin..

TLDR;

+First off, gratz to Paladins and Wizards especially your classes just got stealth buffed.

+ In theory, Claids are enchantable. Has any player successfully ensorcelled a claid before?

+ Weapons & armor can now have everything on them. Crit, Damage, flares, TD pratically everything and any combo you can dream up.

+ People who used Prem points to enchant their crit weighted weapons kinda got F'd over.

+ I don't understand the services and upgrading portion, detailed examples would help, anyone?

+ Automated, recurring frequently.

+ Apparently being offered for silvers as well, that's good news.

+ Great job team! I sorta like it but I don't understand it fully so...

[Jymamon]

The real question to me is how often will this be available outside of DR. Folks have been complaining about the silvers economy and this gives silvers somewhere to go. If GALD becomes GALD/W/P/S (even if just for a few new points each time), this could be positive (except for length of merchant lines.)

I see potential here, but it will depend on how the follow through is. (Temper unlocking merchant, anyone?)

[gilchristr]

GALD/W/P/S ... hmm doesnt quite have the same ring to it as GALD.

[Ososis]

The real question to me is how often will this be available outside of DR. Folks have been complaining about the silvers economy and this gives silvers somewhere to go. If GALD becomes GALD/W/P/S (even if just for a few new points each time), this could be positive (except for length of merchant lines.)

I see potential here, but it will depend on how the follow through is. (Temper unlocking merchant, anyone?)

I see this as the carrot to get us all involved in the dozen unique currencies they plan to roll out next year. Want more weighting? Well better head to the Elanthia Shit Pile and collect that Cow Shit to get weighting. Now every shit event can have WPS thrown into it. The potential here is not for you, it's for Simu.

[Methais]

GALD/W/P/S ... hmm doesnt quite have the same ring to it as GALD.

Soon it will be GALDGBTQIOPQIA^2

[Neveragain]

Yeah, they could have easily explained that the weight/padding from smithy was capped at 2 points...Wonder why they didn't? hmmmmm.

Edit "we are gonna give you !!25!! services! WOW!" (but those services are shit, shhhhhh)

Why are you surprised? This is SOP for micro transactions, the video I posted at the beginning of the week went into full detail about how shitty this stuff is for the consumer and the industry. All week people were shit posting about it, at this point you only have you to blame.

8813

[Ososis]

Why are you surprised? This is SOP for micro transactions, the video I posted at the beginning of the week went into full detail about how shitty this stuff is for the consumer and the industry. All week people were shit posting about it, at this point you only have you to blame.

8813

Fair point, we didn't rep your video hard enough, and now we must face the consequences.

[Comodus]

Why are you surprised? This is SOP for micro transactions, the video I posted at the beginning of the week went into full detail about how shitty this stuff is for the consumer and the industry. All week people were shit posting about it, at this point you only have you to blame.

8813

It's a bleak video mate.

But been alive for 57 years and one thing I know in any language and any country or industry its all about the money. So you may be right.

Edit : can anyone explain to me how the service charge for weighting works for stupid people like myself.

[Methais]

>>Am I correct in assuming that the 25 max "services" at Duskruin correlate to 25 "points" on the new system?

This is correct, services provided by the NPC are 1 point per service. The 25 service limit is our limit for this Duskruin. Future merchants may or may not have a limit (other than your wealth).

If I'm reading that right, have fun getting 5000 services done to max your item. :lol:

I hope they allow sighting on swords too so I can have this:

https://www.albion-swords.com/images/april1/2014/ultimate%20tactical%20katana%20copy.jpg

[Aganii]

Who was getting max crit weighting on anything with the old system?

Im just glad we can bless crit weighted weapons now. That is still a huge buff not to mention you can stack crit and damage weighting/padding. Razern perfects are gonna be the new thing for weapons. Also hoping the automation lets you easily add padding/weighting to fusion gear. Everything depends on how frequent the services are. They should make it a premie service, too.

[Ososis]

Who was getting max crit weighting on anything with the old system?

I don't understand the question. Everybody who got it got it.

also " Razern adds to any other weighting that might be on the item, it is not separate." as per Zissu a bit further down in the comments. The ease of enchanting will be the deciding factor if razern is still garbage or not.

[Neveragain]

If I'm reading that right, have fun getting 5000 services done to max your item. :lol:

I hope they allow sighting on swords too so I can have this:

https://www.albion-swords.com/images/april1/2014/ultimate%20tactical%20katana%20copy.jpg

This is my transmog slut, $0.00 spent on micro transactions, just the standard monthly sub.

https://render-us.worldofwarcraft.com/character/scarlet-crusade/207/103251151-main.jpg

[drauz]

If I'm reading that right, have fun getting 5000 services done to max your item. :lol:

I hope they allow sighting on swords too so I can have this:

https://www.albion-swords.com/images/april1/2014/ultimate%20tactical%20katana%20copy.jpg

LOL an assault katana.

I can tell by the pistol grip.

[SonoftheNorth]

Lol fucking PEQ on it.

[Methais]

Who was getting max crit weighting on anything with the old system?

Im just glad we can bless crit weighted weapons now. That is still a huge buff not to mention you can stack crit and damage weighting/padding. Razern perfects are gonna be the new thing for weapons. Also hoping the automation lets you easily add padding/weighting to fusion gear. Everything depends on how frequent the services are. They should make it a premie service, too.

Wizard enchanting will be good too but who knows how much bullshit will be required to do it.

[Kobold]

Wizard enchanting will be good too but who knows how much bullshit will be required to do it.

Same difficulty as ensorcelling. This change was a mega-ton buff to wizards. You are a wizard. From all the shit you said about Wyrom's current policy toward silvers, you should be on your knees with your mouth open.

[Ososis]

Remember when they let people enchant flared items and nobody did it because it was stupid?

[Comodus]

guys Im still confused like mad. If I have a project piece I should add flares first then tack on the crit and damage weighting? Also are the crit and damage weighting on separate scales or do they stack in terms of costs?

[Methais]

Remember when they let people enchant flared items and nobody did it because it was stupid?

Weighting is actually useful though.

[Ososis]

Weighting is actually useful though.

I meant the process was dumb. I tried getting a few perfect flaring weapons enchanted and everyone I talked to said it was just a waste for the effort required.

[Ososis]

guys Im still confused like mad. If I have a project piece I should add flares first then tack on the crit and damage weighting? Also are the crit and damage weighting on separate scales or do they stack in terms of costs?

We all got this information today. That information is linked in the OP.

[Comodus]

Weighting is actually useful though.

hell yeah. They said no special potions so I think the difficulty and chance for mess up is just higher. The details about all this is so vague though, anyone else get this or is it just me? Note, I'm not that bright.

[Kobold]

hell yeah. They said no special potions so I think the difficulty and chance for mess up is just higher. The details about all this is so vague though, anyone else get this or is it just me? Note, I'm not that bright.

It's going to be fucked up levels of difficult to enchant this shit. You're delusional if you think this is like ensorcelling something. I predict a heavy weighted will take like 6 months to enchant or some shit. A Masterful weighted or 20 pts and above would be like fucking a year or more.

[Ososis]

It's going to be fucked up levels of difficult to enchant this shit. You're delusional if you think this is like ensorcelling something. I predict a heavy weighted will take like 6 months to enchant or some shit. A Masterful weighted or 20 pts and above would be like fucking a year or more.

That is not at all how enchanting works.

[Tgo01]

If only you could cap in this game with just 4x/5x gear! Dammit!

Working on high level gear such as this is one of the few forms of advancement once you hit cap. It's great the GMs are giving people a way to continue working on gear (even if people don't need the high end gear) but that doesn't mean they have to set up something like this.

[Kobold]

The pricing is trololololllol crazy, like 40 mil to get heavy weighting on something. I chuckled.

[Ososis]

The pricing is trololololllol crazy, like 40 mil to get heavy weighting on something. I chuckled.

You chuckles, lols, laughs, and all the other shit you keep saying are super awesome. keep it up.

[Kobold]

You chuckles, lols, laughs, and all the other shit you keep saying are super awesome. keep it up.

Don't be angry that the journey has been doubled and the costs tripled, Ososis. It's fine. Take a deep breath.



lol.

[Ososis]

Don't be angry that the journey has been doubled and the costs tripled, Ososis. It's fine. Take a deep breath.



lol.

Troll better or troll less.

[Aganii]

I don't understand the question. Everybody who got it got it.

also " Razern adds to any other weighting that might be on the item, it is not separate." as per Zissu a bit further down in the comments. The ease of enchanting will be the deciding factor if razern is still garbage or not.

That was in reference to the post above mine mentioning the 5000 services to max your item, i.e. completely maxed crit weighting or padding. Im sure they exist but not many people have the access or means to obtain weapons of that caliber. The new system will likely be no different.

[Ososis]

That was in reference to the post above mine mentioning the 5000 services to max your item, i.e. completely maxed crit weighting or padding. Im sure they exist but not many people have the access or means to obtain weapons of that caliber. The new system will likely be no different.

True, it was reserved for the lucky few. But whenever you took a step you NOTICED it. Now you have over 100 full services that won't even change your padding/weighting, and when it finally DOES roll over 1 pt, you still won't notice.

[Nephelem]

System sounds pretty good to me. Anyone who thought 25 services would mean 25 points of padding is a moron.

[Khariz]

Wow. Talk about a game changer. I had like an essay written up but I just deleted it. I mean I have no clue where to begin..

TLDR;



+ People who used Prem points to enchant their crit weighted weapons kinda got F'd over.



Don't know if anyone else corrected you, but this is wrong. Premium points apply 150 points under the new scale now. You still get HCP.

[barbarous]

Gee, I wonder why ebons gate is going to be 30 days long this year.

Also, this is what I'm going for, fuck a katana. I'm sure I can get it done somehow ($$$$$$$$), but we'll have to research it for science.

8814

[SashaFierce]

Anyone who bought in at previous duskruin run is lucky. They get to skip what is most likely going to be years of service point adding. They also got a discount on what it's now going to cost.


Going from HCP to MCP now.

Assuming 25k bloodscrip for 25 service points.
14 Services x 25000 bloodscrip = 350000 bloodscrip.

It's probably going to scale higher and higher at each padding rank addition. (11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19)

So that could scale up to as much as 500000 bloodscrip.

In August 2016, you could add 10 points of padding for a flat 200k.

[Methais]

I meant the process was dumb. I tried getting a few perfect flaring weapons enchanted and everyone I talked to said it was just a waste for the effort required.

That's because flares aren't exactly useful.

[Ososis]

That's because flares aren't exactly useful.

Yes, I understand your point. But I was willing to pay the cost to have a personal forged rhimar weapon enchanted up and I talked to two enchanters who claimed it would be too difficult with all the things I don't care to understand. But maybe they were just dandelion thieves.

[zephyrii]

@Ososis - really the problem with the flare enchanting is the potion making. They decided flaring enchanting is "oh so op" so they restricted the number of greater essences that can drop. I've personally gotten 2(!!!) greater earth essences drop over 4+ months of hunting. With the insane number of pours and essences needed - well really its not worth the time and hassle to even find someone selling it (which hardly anyone does). The tempering potion requirement completely killed it.

[Comodus]

@Ososis - really the problem with the flare enchanting is the potion making. They decided flaring enchanting is "oh so op" so they restricted the number of greater essences that can drop. I've personally gotten 2(!!!) greater earth essences drop over 4+ months of hunting. With the insane number of pours and essences needed - well really its not worth the time and hassle to even find someone selling it (which hardly anyone does). The tempering potion requirement completely killed it.

This. And to add insult to injury you still can't bless flaring weapons!

edit: They said no potion required for enchanting weighted stuff.

[BriarFox]

My two cents:


I don't want the negative opinion of the purported smithy bloodscrip costs to take over the discussion of the WPS changes in the hunting folder, so let's do that here.

Based on the teaser post, using the full 25 services to pad 6x plain armor for 2.5 points would cost 13825 bloodscrip. Adding less than 1 point to 6x hcp armor would cost somewhere between 24k and 70k.

Compare that to the 50k scaling flat-padding cost for heavy padding at previous Duskruins and you see the issue. Potentially, I could now add HCP padding to armor over 6 Duskruins or other events. Let's assume it'll cost 20k scrip on average. That's now 120k where I was expecting 50k. Costs are now 2.4 times the previous ones while I now need 6 times the number of events. For 10x hcp armor, I could previously pay 225k scrip to take it to MCP in one go. Now, to do that I need to add 350 points. That's 14 max services for a cost that I expect to be staggering (likely 70k x 14=980,000 scrip). The cost has increased ~4.5 times while the events required have increased 14 times. In short, it is no surprise people are disappointed.

The new system is amazing, but the costs here are sky-high for minimal benefits. Please review them.

~ Nuadjha, the Briar Fox

You inhale deeply upon your pipe, puckering your lips as you send out three rings of smoke before you, then puff out a small vine of smoke that darts right through all three which causes them to disperse in a hazy shroud!

[Jymamon]

+ People who used Prem points to enchant their crit weighted weapons kinda got F'd over.

Don't know if anyone else corrected you, but this is wrong. Premium points apply 150 points under the new scale now. You still get HCP.

You're reading that wrong. He's referring to using PPs to enchant an already weighted weapon - something that can now be done by players - not adding weighting/padding to something.

[Originate]

Anyone who bought in at previous duskruin run is lucky. They get to skip what is most likely going to be years of service point adding. They also got a discount on what it's now going to cost.


Going from HCP to MCP now.

Assuming 25k bloodscrip for 25 service points.
14 Services x 25000 bloodscrip = 350000 bloodscrip.

It's probably going to scale higher and higher at each padding rank addition. (11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19)

So that could scale up to as much as 500000 bloodscrip.

In August 2016, you could add 10 points of padding for a flat 200k.

According to the wiki, the previous padding certs offered and begining-ending costs were +10 points of fresh padding for 25k - 48,716k, or +5 additional points for 150k - 234,375.

Regardless, I also think the prices will be ridiculous past 15points. Also, with the plan to have the service offered for silvers, the bloodscrip to silver/ cash conversion is in for another curveball.

[Fallen]

A few posts from Wyrom and Coase RE: the changes.


Just wanted to touch base on some of the comments. Likely a long post. No tl;dr offered.

>>1) How is the gem-eating armor script affected by this change? These armors were sold at the recent Grand Auction. The script includes the ability to create very heavy critical padding or damage padding (I'm assuming 12 points on the old scale). It couldn't be padded under the old system since the script apparently took up the flare/padding slot, too.

The armor should be totally updated into the new system, so that spot should get freed up for something else. I can look a little more in depth if you notice an issue.

>>Does it create its padding in the new slot, thus blocking the new W/P/S service?

Yes, armors that generate their own padding will all go into the new slot, thus making it ineligible for additional padding.

>>2) How does the premium padding service work now? Does it still add 10 old (150 new) points of padding? Have the costs changed?

Nothing has changed, Premium padding is still the same price and is still HCP.

>>Have the costs changed for premium flaring and premium enchanting W/P/S items?

Surcharges for other properties have not yet been determined, but it will be soon.

>>3) Regarding W/P/S service costs. Are temporary buffs like 1625 paladin bonding or bless/eblade factored into the costs for the service? Meaning, do paladins need to unbond to their weapons in order to not pay more?

It should not. If you feel it does, post about it.

>>Wyrom lied.

This comment seems to stem from two areas, last April's Duskruin and the State of Elanthia (SoE) keynote where I spoke about lower amounts of weighting/padding being more accessible. This is still the plan.

The NPC blacksmith (smithy) that will do the services is being debuted at Duskruin with a service cap and bloodscrip cost, but it will be offered beyond this event very often. Not just pay events. The frequency of this service will be much greater during normal gameplay than at pay events. GM Merchants are also going to be able to offer this a lot more as well. Prior to this update, we very rarely offered anything beyond "heavy" with services. It wasn't until CCF/RtCF that we worked on items beyond 8x or HCP/HCW. And even then, we had capped amounts of points we were allowed to allocate to items. The majority of players under the old ways of releases were always locked out of these types of services. We never did a whole lot per year.

I know the "lied" comment stems into padding, because there was a padding certificate for unpadded armor that was significantly cheaper. The padded armor (and weighted weapons) was outrageously expensive though. People wanting to go from 10 points to 15 points couldn't justify the cost. Here are the stats for all of 2016 though, the year we had the certificates.

(Table was cut from this post, see it here: http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Hunting%20and%20Combat/Weighting%20and%20Padding/view/140)


These numbers don't include the opening day of the Scrip Shop, but as you can see, these certificates didn't generate a lot of interest at their price points. While I know looking at historic data on items sold isn't the best way to gauge demand or desire, it did show us something wasn't working well with it. Either way, the W/P/S review began before Duskruin 2017, which is one of the primary reasons those certificates were pulled.

There were a few things during the SoE that were not explained in full details, and due to that, led to some misunderstandings. Moving forward, we need to have SoE front loaded so these types of misunderstandings can get cleared up during SimuCon. I ended up having to leave right after that because I had to get right back to work on Duskruin.

When the W/P/S pricing started taking shape, I had a different impression of it. To say I lied to you is not true, I just had a different understanding at the lower amounts. I used lightly at SoE because the numbers showed how easy and feasible it was. I wasn't made aware of the pricing structure to get up to heavy until a little more recently. At first, I had the same amount of concern that some of you are having. But as it was pointed out to me, the system allows a lot more flexibility as well as service allowance. And it frees up the slot on your item for something else. Choosing flares over lightly weighting or AS boosts over lightly padding was a no brainer prior to this update. Now you don't have to. You can easily have a few points of crit padding, damage padding, and TD on a single armor piece. Or a damage weighted, crit weighted, and defender weapon.

The smithy is just the debut for this new system. The best advice I can offer is that if you're not a fan of the smithy's pricing because it's tied into bloodscrip, hold off on getting this service. Ways to pay silver will be around the corner. I'll also see if there is something we can do for the people who were anticipating "heavy" being offered, but keep in mind with the figures above that it wasn't a quick and easy sale for the majority. Duskruin will allow people to get a head start with improving their items. GM Zissu also pointed out that there is a number at which the pricing will be very cheap if you don't use all 25 services at once.

There are a lot of people that have been working on this update, Zissu being lead, but most of the Development team has been involved. As much as everyone thinks I'm involved in every decision, I can tell you I'm not. GM Coase has been on staff since 2002 and has a very sharp understanding of a lot of the mechanical facets of our game. I trust his decision making. All of my Senior GameMasters oversee their individual teams and make most the decisions on projects, approvals, and so on. I'm not a massive micromanager. We do a lot of collaborative work and there is a very decentralized management structure when it comes to game updates. I have a great understanding of the game, but GM Coase is who I'd call an expert when it comes to the core game mechanics. GM Estild is an expert on our core magic systems. GM Finros is an expert on our core combat systems. They know a lot more than me in their areas of expertise. No single person is pulling the trigger though. We all work really hard on this game to bring you a final product that's worth playing.

I've been working every day since SimuCon for anywhere between 12 to 15 hours each day. Saturday was the first day that I got to do something with my son since July (we went mini golfing, but even that got delayed due to the game crashing). I'm trying really hard to make sure we continue to offer players new and interesting ways to play the game. This update was a big thing for the game and itemization. We'll keep discussing these changes though, and I'm sure tweaks will be often. While you might think I'm just pressing buttons and creating cash grabs, I'm actually dedicating all my time and energy to this game to make sure it lasts a long time. You're welcome to your opinion of me and how I do things, but my goals are in the best interest of GemStone IV.


Wyrom, PM
One important thing I would like to emphasize is this is explicitly -not- a "Duskruin" implementation. While this was released during a Duskruin event and it made sense to have the merchant aspect debut at the ongoing event, this is an expansion to the entire game and not just something that is only for players that attend pay events. It is, in fact, a major update to all gear, as you can now have pretty much any armor padded or any weapon weighted/sighted and any existing weighted/padded items have become much more useful:

-You can now bless it to varying degrees.
-You can now eblade it to varying degrees.
-You can now enchant it.
-You can now stack it with many other properties.

You now also have the very easily accessible option of steadily improving pretty much any gear that you have with a benefit that, due to the above, no longer comes with quite so many restrictions. While it may seem underwhelming to only be able to put 2 points of weighting on a fresh item at this one event, that two points is now quite a lot better than two points was a few days ago, since it no longer restricts you in quite so many ways. It is also important to note that since this Duskruin is the very first outing of the system, we made the decision to be very conservative with access to make sure the system is actually working as it should. It wouldn't be ideal for either side if we allowed unlimited services, only to need to refund large amounts of purchases if it turned out that price or other changes needed to be made.

Cost and time-wise, while the prices will vary significantly based upon the exact attributes of your item, we have designed the system such that if you want to to gradually improve your 5x weapon from 0 to heavy weighting over a few years, you can do it for less than 12k bloodscrip (and will be able to break up part of that cost into silvers too) or for around 9m if you go the all-silvers route (silvers is the primary currency that we designed this for, BTW, not scrip or any other alternate currency).

If you want to do it faster, then you also have the -option- to pay more, either silver or scrip. And the option to pay silvers was pretty much completely unavailable outside of pay events in the past. That will not be the case going forward. Wandering merchants can and will offer services for your gear. Merchants at free events will offer these services. Going to pay events will offer opportunities for guaranteed access and the option to pay in alternative currencies but, again, this is a game expansion, not a Duskruin or pay event expansion. It is for everyone, whether you grind bloodscrip or just want to play the game and improve your favorite pieces of gear over time.

Coase


>This is true and what I love about the new system. But the kill-buzz is thinking just how long is it going to take me to get to something like +10 crit padding, +10 damage padding, and +TD or flares on my armor? Half a decade or thousands of upfront dollars or a prohibitive amount of silvers? I guess I'll have to wait and see.
The combination of armor properties you're describing was pretty hard to achieve at all just a few days ago. It would have definitely required many years of waiting for very rare raffle/auction wins -or- paying a lot of money across multiple events. What these changes have done is give you a clear definable path to achieving that goal and allow you to make decisions based upon that information. There was no path in the past, just hoping that an event -might- offer one part of that service and then hoping that you could jump through all the correct hoops while also hoping that someone else didn't beat you to it.

>effective levels of W/P/S

One of the driving forces behind this change was to make -any- level of W/P/S "effective". In the past, adding small amounts of W/P/S to an item actively made it worse because you were taking a heavy opportunity cost to have that 1 point of weighting. It closed off improvement and use avenues. That is no longer the case.

>based on the foreshadowed DR implementation

This system is not a Duskruin implementation. Further, this Duskruin run is explicitly limited far more than what we expect to allow once we are confident that the system is working as intended.

Coase

[Comodus]

my only fear is that the silver prices for upgrading will be astronomical. I'm thinking 50 million silvers to take something from no padding to heavy for basic 4x enchant. Someone pinch me and say Im wrong about this.

edit: thanks Fallen for the cut and paste. that last bit was very helpful.

[Fallen]

my only fear is that the silver prices for upgrading will be astronomical. I'm thinking 50 million silvers to take something from no padding to heavy for basic 4x enchant. Someone pinch me and say Im wrong about this.

edit: thanks Fallen for the cut and paste. that last bit was very helpful.
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2016-03-07-1457387813-3802365-PHOTO2.jpeg

[Kobold]

The silver price thing is a gimmick, he's going to price this shit so fucking high he's going to skew the silver/dollars conversion way fucking down.

I think he's ultimate goal is to kill the secondary market (because you could also buy HCP or MCP armor from another player) by directly tieing silvers to Scrip, that is, you can get MCP 4x for 250 million silvers through the automated merchants over years of work; obviously your pre-existing 4x MCP armor is going to be worth right under that (if not the exact same because you're getting it on the spot).

The Risk,

Is that noone will use these new merchants because of the costs. There are plenty of existing weighted and padded shit to outfit each active character. Yes, a lot of them are in inactive accounts or in someones locker but especially in the low-end there's a ton. We'll have to see how this shakes down, if Wyrom was smart he would've accessed the master list of all the weighted and padded shit in the game and made effective price points (which by judging from the jumps in pricing he probably did). Fuck me.

Also, he's intentionally made it now that you can add anything and everything to your gear. And of course no gear has everything right now, so he got us, we're fucked.. you have to participate in the new system if you want progression.

Silvers $2 per Mil,

It's gonna happen. We're playing a fucked up chess game where we can only see half the board and our opponent (Wyrom)
can see everything. If he wants silvers to be worth 100$ per million he can make it happen; if he wants it at 1 cent he can do that as well.

[Fallen]

>>Regarding the armor accessories over armor, you're saying as long as one of the two parts of the equation has both types of padding, you won't see a halving of padding?
Not quite.
- Having 2 types of padding on the same item have no effect on each other.
- Having torso armor and an accessory of the same type of padding will choose the larger of the two.
- Having one of the two with padding, and the other with another attribute (including a different type of padding) will halve the padding benefit.

The reasoning behind this is if all of these properties are on the same item, the servicing aspect of those items is calculated accordingly. When split across two items, it would make those items serviceable independently much cheaper while providing the same benefit.

>>Could we see a change to assessing or loresong that will show how far into a padding/weighting cycle an item is?
It's something I'd like to do.

>>Lastly, if it's currently tempering, is it eligible for a service?
Yes.

Zissu - Combat and Magic Systems Dev Lackey

[Kronius]

The silver price thing is a gimmick, he's going to price this shit so fucking high he's going to skew the silver/dollars conversion way fucking down.

I think he's ultimate goal is to kill the secondary market (because you could also buy HCP or MCP armor from another player) by directly tieing silvers to Scrip, that is, you can get MCP 4x for 250 million silvers through the automated merchants over years of work; obviously your pre-existing 4x MCP armor is going to be worth right under that (if not the exact same because you're getting it on the spot).

The Risk,

Is that noone will use these new merchants because of the costs. There are plenty of existing weighted and padded shit to outfit each active character. Yes, a lot of them are in inactive accounts or in someones locker but especially in the low-end there's a ton. We'll have to see how this shakes down, if Wyrom was smart he would've accessed the master list of all the weighted and padded shit in the game and made effective price points (which by judging from the jumps in pricing he probably did). Fuck me.

Also, he's intentionally made it now that you can add anything and everything to your gear. And of course no gear has everything right now, so he got us, we're fucked.. you have to participate in the new system if you want progression.

Silvers $2 per Mil,

It's gonna happen. We're playing a fucked up chess game where we can only see half the board and our opponent (Wyrom)
can see everything. If he wants silvers to be worth 100$ per million he can make it happen; if he wants it at 1 cent he can do that as well.

Oh, no! Participation in a system designed with giving you a clear path forward in creating awesome items is terrible! Woe is us!

The fact that they're going to be letting us use all currencies should prop up silvers quite nicely after Duskruin. If silvers are so abundant, what does it matter the cost if they're so cheap and readily available... until they're not, creating scarcity.

Do you even macro, bro?

[Kobold]

Oh, no! Participation in a system designed with giving you a clear path forward in creating awesome items is terrible! Woe is us!

The fact that they're going to be letting us use all currencies should prop up silvers quite nicely after Duskruin. If silvers are so abundant, what does it matter the cost if they're so cheap and readily available... until they're not, creating scarcity.

Do you even macro, bro?

It's not based completely on scarcity though for the exact same reason there exists alternate currencies, if one currency becomes too expensive in dollar amounts then people turn to another form. This equation sums up the situation currently.

Silvers(var)/(t) = Scrip/Tix = Simucoin = Dollars;

It's super simplified but basically Scrips can be set to Simucoin/Dollars based on whatever Wyrom feels like, Wyrom can't control silver production (which is based on us) but can control silver demand through wandering merchants/events etc. offering this service (so through the frequency of them appearing and if they are willing to do it for silvers). So, if silvers are getting a tad too expensive like 6.50 per mil, Wyrom presses on the brake and stops the services for silver over the course of 6 mos. to a year. If silvers are getting too low he throws in more silver based services. etc.

Also, I'm 100% certain the weight/pad services will be prohibitively expensive in silvers. You may think "Well, this will make silvers more valuable." Not quite. Because of the fact there are alternative currencies which are all directly linked to a fixed dollar amount to the Simustore. Why pay for silvers that are now at a crazy 9 bucks a mil when for those same 9 bucks you can buy Simucoins and get double the servicing done at the guaranteed "Duskruin-like" event next month. Plus, you have no idea when the next silver event is coming nor do you know if it's a set amount of people that work is being done for. Wyrom understands that completely killing the silver market will cut the population significantly as a lot of people play because it's "free" or they get a bit of cash from it.

We're completely at the mercy of Wyrom and Simu at this point. The people on the other forums are correct when they said the management has set this all up for maximum milkage. This next EG is a litmus test for me. I'm watching how much of it will be based on silvers and at what price points; that is to say, what Wyrom's silver to BS/Tix to dollar conversion rate is.

[Kronius]

Also, I'm 100% certain the weight/pad services will be prohibitively expensive in silvers.

This is where you lost me. One, because in all reality, you have zero idea. Two, it's subjective. Prohibitively expensive to you, may not mean prohibitively expensive to me. Therein lies the rub.

[SonoftheNorth]

This is where you lost me. One, because in all reality, you have zero idea. Two, it's subjective. Prohibitively expensive to you, may not mean prohibitively expensive to me. Therein lies the rub.

He doesn't play.

[Kobold]

This is where you lost me. One, because in all reality, you have zero idea. Two, it's subjective. Prohibitively expensive to you, may not mean prohibitively expensive to me. Therein lies the rub.

Prohibitively expensive = something outrageous like 30 mil for Decently Padded, we all know what this means. And no I'm willing to bet that it's going to be crazy because Wyrom wants silvers as low as fucking possible while keeping it on life support so the game stays free to the capped grinders.

This is what most of you don't seem to get. The more you can sell your silvers for, the less Simu profits and vice versa. Simu is in direct compeitition with you the player, not an opinion it's a logical fact. That dude that just spent $1000 buying 10x uber gear from you is a -$1000 loss to Simu because that dude could have gotten it from one of Wyrom's many slot machines paying Simu through Simucoins.This is what Wyrom ultimately wants; this is his endgame. Apart from bringing back past players for subs and to get them on board the milk train, he wants that secondary market where people are paying thousands for silvers and items.

[Methais]

He doesn't play.

When he did it probably took him 5 years to earn 1m.

[Kobold]

When he did it probably took him 5 years to earn 1m.

STFU you're just happy Wizards got a fuck ton buff from the revamp. Fuck you you cannoli sucking greaseball.

[Gelston]

When he did it probably took him 5 years to earn 1m.

But how long did it take him to earn 1m simucoins?

[Kronius]

Prohibitively expensive = something outrageous like 30 mil for Decently Padded, we all know what this means. And no I'm willing to bet that it's going to be crazy because Wyrom wants silvers as low as fucking possible while keeping it on life support so the game stays free to the capped grinders.

This is what most of you don't seem to get. The more you can sell your silvers for, the less Simu profits and vice versa. Simu is in direct compeitition with you the player, not an opinion it's a logical fact. That dude that just spent $1000 buying 10x uber gear from you is a -$1000 loss to Simu because that dude could have gotten it from one of Wyrom's many slot machines paying Simu through Simucoins.This is what Wyrom ultimately wants; this is his endgame. Apart from bringing back past players for subs and to get them on board the milk train, he wants that secondary market where people are paying thousands for silvers and items.

Or is Simu the winner in that it probably took months and months of subscription fees to even sniff gear of that level, and there will continue to be months and months of subscription fees because it's being used. The more people are invested into this game, the stronger it'll be for the long run.

These new changes offer visibility for novice and intermediate players to obtain high end gear without having to pray for a CCF slot, or try to win a raffle against 500 other people. It's sort of like planning for retirement or simply wishing your lottery ticket comes in. This way, aside from the fact you can now have damage/crit/TD armor, people can at least gameplan for their endgame sets and utilize the currency they have available.

Will it need tweaks? Yes. Is it perfect? Not at all. In the long run will it be more expensive than previous mechanisms? Yes. The game is growing, albeit slowly. You can deny it all you want, but they've got the numbers. A rising tide raises all ships and by giving players visibility and a path forward, to me, that seems like a good way to entice and keep players.

To be honest, I'm already thinking about low level damage padding on MCP fusion leathers, or whenever to press on to Superb crit. The possibilities are certainly drawing me in...

[Kobold]

Or is Simu the winner in that it probably took months and months of subscription fees to even sniff gear of that level, and there will continue to be months and months of subscription fees because it's being used. The more people are invested into this game, the stronger it'll be for the long run.

These new changes offer visibility for novice and intermediate players to obtain high end gear without having to pray for a CCF slot, or try to win a raffle against 500 other people. It's sort of like planning for retirement or simply wishing your lottery ticket comes in. This way, aside from the fact you can now have damage/crit/TD armor, people can at least gameplan for their endgame sets and utilize the currency they have available.

Will it need tweaks? Yes. Is it perfect? Not at all. In the long run will it be more expensive than previous mechanisms? Yes. The game is growing, albeit slowly. You can deny it all you want, but they've got the numbers. A rising tide raises all ships and by giving players visibility and a path forward, to me, that seems like a good way to entice and keep players.

To be honest, I'm already thinking about low level damage padding on MCP fusion leathers, or whenever to press on to Superb crit. The possibilities are certainly drawing me in...

No man, time is a factor. A dollar spread over every other month is worth far more than a dollar spread over years. I'm almost certain Sub vs. Pay events are or is going to be 40/60 of Simu's total revenues. Anyhow, check those silvers, it's at 5 bucks a mil right now in Aug 17', we'll see what it is in Aug 18'.

[Methais]

STFU you're just happy Wizards got a fuck ton buff from the revamp. Fuck you you cannoli sucking greaseball.

It's funny that you think enchanting any item would add anything noticeable to my bank account. It's even funnier that you're so mad about it.

And what kind of loser acts like cannolis are a bad thing? Fucking vegans that's who, you fucking vegan.

http://runinout.com/sites/default/files/user/pictures/OB1FBLogoweb_0.jpg

@Whirlin plz halp my feelings. Wyrom is Italian too so now moderatez = mandatory!


But how long did it take him to earn 1m simucoins?

He's still in the process of sucking the appropriate amount of penises. It's a work in progress. Will probably take him at least a year to finish at 16 hours a day, 6 days per week.

[Fallen]

I've had a few questions around the interaction of weighting/padding and the temporary item benefits. In all instances below, the sum of all weighting/padding types on the item is used to calculate the effectiveness.

1) Blessing weapons with weighting is reduced in potency by reducing the number of charges of bless the weapon holds. The more weighting on the item, the fewer swings you will receive when blessing it.

2) Temporary flares from eblade, holy water (bless), and guiding light will have the potency of the flare (how hard they hit) reduced by weighting/padding on the item. This is calculated on every flare, so the order in which the enhancements are placed on the item does not matter. This starts at 1 point of combat effectiveness, and essentially caps out at heavy (10) points of effectiveness. Trying to apply temp flares on something heavy or over will block it outright.

3) Eblade +AS bonus works in the same way, having the items +AS scale downwards with the amount of weighting, starting at 1 point of combat effectiveness and resulting at no bonus at heavily weighted.

4) Guiding Light from paladin bonding follows the same rules above. Guiding Light flares will automatically fall off the item some short time after it reaches heavy.

[Androidpk]

Does 1625 count as temporary flares?

[Comodus]

Does 1625 count as temporary flares?

Yeah says it under #4 which i think is kinda dumb. Now we gotta tack on a permanent flare then bond to it. what Im super curious about is can you permabless something and still have flares? they different slots?

[Gelston]

Yeah says it under #4 which i think is kinda dumb. Now we gotta tack on a permanent flare then bond to it. what Im super curious about is can you permabless something and still have flares? they different slots?

No you don't. The are still "permanent", they just follow the same rules for temporary, in that they don't work at heavy or above.

[Kobold]

No you don't. The are still "permanent", they just follow the same rules for temporary, in that they don't work at heavy or above.

They also lose power over it's course to heavy (0) = full power flares (5)=all damage halved (10) = Almost gone (10)+ = all gone.

This is fucking stupid because you can just put some cool flare onto your weapon and then add whatever amount weighting you want then bond and sanctify it.

[Pereus]

So I have a HCW weapon and since the change the guiding light flares from 1625 are kicking in. Single and double plasma flares. Im not complaining as they didnt exist before, but they vary from 1-10 damage each. I havent see a single one above that. I imagine as I move up in weighting they may dissapear altogether, but I was used to not having them anyways.

It would be nice if Paladins could bypass this rule with 1625 as it is one of our most important spells and seems like it just makes sense via the spell itself and the new system, but I will take what I can get.

[Maerit]

So, if I add HCW to my current UAC gloves that are earth flaring and KO flaring - would both of those flares start to suck? Or is it just temporary flares / bonuses that aren't as powerful?

[Fallen]

A few quotes from GM Estild on the Discord:


NOTE: Some of these comments don't have to do with the Weighting/Padding revamp but are still interesting.


----


Estild - Temporarily padded/weighted items cannot be tempered/enchanted.


----
(Regarding power creep and enemy design)


Estild - Everyday creatures won't. When we tackle postcap development, it's safe to assume we won't be balancing said creatures around 4x plain gear.


----
(Regarding non-standard flare enchanting)


Estild - No immediate plans, but it's always possible (that doesn't mean no - I would have answered the same to this question in regard to weighting/padding a year ago!)


----


(Regarding essences of elements for enchanting)


Estild - More of those drop than are actually used or needed.


Estild - There's some huge perceived value, which resulted in wizards paying more than they're probably actually worth - probably because most wizards wanted to immediately start enchanting their flaring equipment after they were released. But now, there's no reason to overpay for them.


----


(Regarding enchanting and item loss)


Estild - Tempered items should never be destroyed anymore, under any circumstance. If it happens, it's a bug.


Estild - Yep. It's a sure way to demotivate someone, encouraging them to immediately log off and regret playing. A game should never do that.


Estild - Temporary consequences are okay, but not when it games to items which players invest years of time and huge amounts of silver into.


----


(Regarding enchanting bane weapons and using lightening certs on parasite weapons)


Estild - Not currently, but it's possible.


Estild - I believe you just need to BUGITEM the parasite weapon and mention using your lightening note on it. Those requests are reviewed and periodically approved. Or also ask about it on the forums for @Haliste to review.


----


Sparked - I just hope disarm is tackled before post cap dev.


Estild - It will be.

[Pereus]

get them permanently premium flared with fire or something. you should be able to go straight up to claid weighting and they'll still flare like normal.

I was debating putting grapple flares on it to combo with the polearm flares. Just imaging that happening is hilarious to me.

[Roblar]

Nope, they are a true flare, not scripty.

But at this time, they've mentioned their pricing and testing was building up weighting, padding, sighting. They need to reverse engineer the system and pricing for adding flares to items that already have the weighting, like a claidhmore.

[Comodus]

Nope, they are a true flare, not scripty.

But at this time, they've mentioned their pricing and testing was building up weighting, padding, sighting. They need to reverse engineer the system and pricing for adding flares to items that already have the weighting, like a claidhmore.

GM Zissu already said adding flares to preexisting weighted weaponry would be auction tier level. I just assume they want people to start from scratch utilizing the new system to maximize usage out of the revamp. Anyhow I really like the changes at least now I can actually see a timeline for my projects rather than hope and pray.

[Fallen]

A few posts from GM Estild:




That means 6 possible services in 1 year if doing full monty of 25 each and every time then it's 150 points a year




Just to clear this up, since I've seen it referenced a few times. There is no actual cap to the number of services you can get within a service window (60 days). For the initial Duskruin run, we did limit it to 25, but that's mostly to ensure the system works as intended. There could be numerous merchants within a 60 day timespan that offer it and you end up with more than 25. The only limitation built into the system is cost. The more often you upgrade your gear, the more you'll have to pay. But the option is entirely yours - take longer and get it done cheaper, or speed up the process, but pay more. As a point of reference, it takes a Premium subscriber 2.5 years just to get heavy crit padding on basic 4x armor.


GameMaster Estild





Estild, is the cost escalator per item or is it per account? In other words, if I had a project lance-of-doom and platemail-of-invulnerability I was building, does the cost escalator apply to each item individually or to me as an account?"




The service window and count is tied to the item.


GameMaster Estild




This was mentioned in the revamp thread, but I hadn't seen an update. Moving to a new thread so it isn't lost in the noise.
I am still unable to get 3x HCP armor to take a temper. When I check it with 925, I get the "Assuming {armor} can be tempered somehow" and the temper potion "merely evaporates without effect" if poured anyhow. (Repeating my full disclosure, this armor does have Anfelt scripts, but I don't believe those are what is blocking the ability to enchant.)
Any news on when this might be fixed?




You should get a bard to loresing to the armor. There is more than likely another property that is blocking the temper.



- did you assess the armor or otherwise use it so that it gets converted to the new system automatically? I believe it won't temper until that happens.




The first time you GET any piece combat equipment or use it in combat, it will automatically be converted. It doesn't need to actually be ASSESSED (and the latter doesn't do anything more than the former). The only times it would not automatically convert is if there was an actual problem with the item (unlikely, but possible) or if you were holding the item at the time of release and haven't stowed yet (thus have no had no need to actually GET <item>).


GameMaster Estild

[Fallen]

So, am I und​erstanding right that with a combined 5,000 pt cap per item, instead of that final (old +5) crit weighting, I could instead pickup 1,500 points of damage weighting - ending with incredible crit weighting & expertly damage weighting (3,500 + 1,500), for reducing pricing due to the lower tiers and scale)?

You can achieve the combination of weighting for more potency, but not for reduced pricing. A service of damage weighting will cost you more than a service of critical weighting because adding damage weighting will calculate the existing critical weighting as a surcharge. You will get more combat effectiveness on the weapon for a higher price.

Zissu - Combat and Magic Systems Dev Lackey

[Comodus]

Is there really a point in getting that last 10 extra points of crit weighting above a claidh in lieu of 40 pts of damage weighting?

[Methais]

Is there really a point in getting that last 10 extra points of crit weighting above a claidh in lieu of 40 pts of damage weighting?

Yes, point being you'll have +10 weighting over a claid.

[Fallen]

I spent more mental energy than I should have trying to figure out if drama armor was a script I wasn't aware of or not. Please assist if you haven't already so we can look at it. If the assisting GM can't help, a bugitem will make sure I know what to look for.

>>assess and more information
I'll be doing this shortly. This and item identification mechanisms like the AI crystal are my short list after the final bugs I have to wrap up.

>>assess values
Assess moved over to using scale values and because of that, the gaps in between in between two assess ranks go to the higher reading even though the combat effectiveness has not moved up yet. I'll address this with my assess changes.

Zissu - Combat and Magic Systems Dev Lackey

[gilchristr]

Recall that in the combat calculations, crit weighting does not have randomization at the stage of adding phantom damage (adds a flat amount of phantom damage, even say +40 for a claid), in contrast to crit padding, damage padding, and damage weighting for greater than 7 (they add 6 + a variable amount).

So id do a split of damage and crit padding for armor, but stick to crit weighting solely for a crit weighted weapon.

[Methais]

Recall that in the combat calculations, crit weighting does not have randomization at the stage of adding phantom damage (adds a flat amount of phantom damage, even say +40 for a claid), in contrast to crit padding, damage padding, and damage weighting for greater than 7 (they add 6 + a variable amount).

So id do a split of damage and crit padding for armor, but stick to crit weighting solely for a crit weighted weapon.

I never really got the point of damage weighting in the first place when crit weighting effectively has (phantom) damage weighting too.

[gilchristr]

"I never really got the point of damage weighting in the first place when crit weighting effectively has (phantom) damage weighting too."

Well yes, upping the crit rank gets you bonus damage (from the crit table) even if you dont score a crit kill b/c either you didnt rank high enough or you are fighting crit immune

[Fallen]

Most of the item identifying scripts have been updated to treat weighting/padding as if only one enhancement was allowed on the item. Since we went from allowing 1 property to allowing 3, it is very hard to get the intent of the original script owners messaging.
ex. You see "your armor has rainbows" might now say "your armor has rainbows and unicorns and death", which may or may not make sense to what the original messaging was trying to convey.

The where possible, I tried to merge and display if the item has both types of weighting or padding, but even that was fairly limited. I will however pass along the request to the script owners if they want to go back and update the messaging to support these new cases.

Zissu - Combat and Magic Systems Dev Lackey

[Fallen]

These sheaths have already been updated as part of the WPS updates and appear to be working properly.

Blessing weighted weapons is dependent on the amount of charges the source would apply vs the amount of weighting on the item. Blessing sheaths typically apply a lot fewer charges than cleric or voln bless, so are more limited in the amount of weighting they will bless.

Zissu - Combat and Magic Systems Dev Lackey

[Latrinsorm]

I once knew a Zissou who sounded so much like Ivy Winters that I was co-mpelled to remark, and some time after he left the guild.

The pattern never alters.

GALD-D@NG

Until the giant rat dies.

skin
sear

[Fallen]

Not currently. Mostly has to do with the fact that the tooling we made to make WPS changes doesn't know how to handle it. Not saying never, but not currently eligible.

Zissu - Combat and Magic Systems Dev Lackey


Regarding using the new service system with hurling bandoliers.

[Fallen]

The service counter is a single counter no matter the method (GM Merchant/NPC) or the type being done. Going above 20 services is meant to be bit of a gut check.With your (quite amazing) weapon, the next (28th) service this window would cost you a grueling ~7.5m silver. That same service at the start of the next window is slightly under 300k.

I've been intently reading the feedback on the system because it is very different than previous gear improvement systems. One of our goals here was to make a more consistent improvement system focused around dedication over time instead of maximizing your luck. It is very different to have to set the limits based on what you want/can afford rather than having them gated behind a dice rolls. There were some useful patterns that came out of the Duskruin data in terms of where players found the value in cutting themselves off.

The 25 service limit from Duskruin was more of a limitation on the first run of an automated system, but you can start to see that this number is going to be at or near the top of the service count for most players anyways.

As far as EG, I don't have details and will let that come from those closer to it. The 60 day window is meant to coincide with the frequency of festivals. Having the window be 30 or 60 days was something we discussed. We didn't want people to feel like they 'missed the window' if they took a weekend trip and missed that month's festival or a traveling merchant, and 60 days makes sure you have multiple opportunities at that. That said, having everyone priced out of their service window during a major festival is not the intent either.

Zissu - Combat and Magic Systems Dev Lackey

[Fallen]

>>Only a handful were spun and there was a 5 service point limit. So availability is and a number of points are STILL being tightly controlled. At least that time it was for silvers and not cash.

To clarify Festival of the Fallen availability:

I had 50 spots of 5 pts each to offer for this festival. I did not block item passing and there were several items that got quite a bit of work. As this service is intended to be quite common, I'm not sure why the 5 pt per spin limit is raising issues. Raising item abilities drastically in a short time was, at least to my understanding, never the intent of the system.

Keep in mind this was the first time it was offered for silvers, which was itself a brand new system.

~Mazreth

[Methais]

How many silvers were they charging?

[Fallen]

How many silvers were they charging?

Dunno. Anyone get the service?

[BriarFox]

Dunno. Anyone get the service?

It was 1m per 1000 bloodscrip. I got services 20-25 on my armor, which would have cost 6232 BS, and I paid 6.23m.

[Methais]

It was 1m per 1000 bloodscrip. I got services 20-25 on my armor, which would have cost 6232 BS, and I paid 6.23m.

https://i.imgflip.com/1bsfr4.jpg

[Fallen]

Hello Fellow Elanthians,

I've just released an update that allows Premium Point benefits to interact with the W/P/S changes. As before, Sadie reserves all final say in surchages and pricing when the service is being done.

Premium Point Padding
- Using Premium Points to add padding will function as it did before, and bring armor UP TO 150 services (10pts of Combat Effectiveness) of padding. Given that multiple types of padding can exist on the same item, you can now choose to split those 150 services across both Critical and Damage padding if you so choose.
- Pricing for padding has been updated to allow padding on flaring, TD Bonus, Offensive Bonus, etc. Adding Padding to a set of armor with any of these attributes has a surcharge of 1500 points.
- Due to enchanting of padding items being available, pricing for PP Padding will now always price armor below 4x enchant as if it were 4x. No changes to costs above 4x.
- All other surcharges for padding remains as it was before.

Premium Point Flaring
Flares added via Premium Points may now also be added to weighted or padded items that are 150 services or under. The surcharge is 20 PP per service of weighting, or 10 PP per service of padding. All other surcharges remain the same.

Scripted Items
PCALC will now include the surcharge for item scripts (if possible) and include that in the estimate given. If a script cannot be identified as fluff, combat simple, or combat complex yet it will default to assuming it is combat complex and will send a notification for us to review.

Premium 9 has been updated to reflect all of these changes as well.

Zissu - Combat and Magic Systems Dev Lackey

This message was originally posted in Four Winds Hall/Premium, Announcements. To discuss the above, follow the link below.

http://forums.play.net/forums/19/221/2434/view/210

[AnOrdim]

This is such a great nerf because it shows so much about how fucked up their structure is.
They introduced the changes ~6 months ago. Something they spent months debating and deciding on and planning before actually implementing. During that time they either ignored or forgot that PP padding was a thing and didnt adjust the price at the time the change was launched. By Dev's own admissions, the planning stages of how they are going to do things takes the longest, the actual coding is apparently the quickest part. But even with this they managed to burn out a GM (Wyrom's own admission in a post on officials).
On top of the ignoring the PP cost from the launch, they had random GMs apparently turning down work for some people and allowing it for others. They even posted on the officials that if they were going to change the price it would be something like this. They should have said "sandwiched between two mediocre upgrades" so that it might be easier to swallow.

This is the state of the game that people are throwing ~$17k at for a private home that may or may not be completed by an overworked GM who is so severely underpaid they may just quit right in the middle of a project because its such a shit situation.

I hope people are complaining loudly on the forums because this shit just never ends. All year long they've been doing it.

[Fortybox]

This is such a great nerf because it shows so much about how fucked up their structure is.
They introduced the changes ~6 months ago. Something they spent months debating and deciding on and planning before actually implementing. During that time they either ignored or forgot that PP padding was a thing and didnt adjust the price at the time the change was launched. By Dev's own admissions, the planning stages of how they are going to do things takes the longest, the actual coding is apparently the quickest part. But even with this they managed to burn out a GM (Wyrom's own admission in a post on officials).
On top of the ignoring the PP cost from the launch, they had random GMs apparently turning down work for some people and allowing it for others. They even posted on the officials that if they were going to change the price it would be something like this. They should have said "sandwiched between two mediocre upgrades" so that it might be easier to swallow.

This is the state of the game that people are throwing ~$17k at for a private home that may or may not be completed by an overworked GM who is so severely underpaid they may just quit right in the middle of a project because its such a shit situation.

I hope people are complaining loudly on the forums because this shit just never ends. All year long they've been doing it.

OMG ... the worst people are those who say they quit but don't really.

[SonoftheNorth]

OMG ... the worst people are those who say they quit but don't really.

https://i2.wp.com/candlemaking.craftgossip.com/files/2016/10/the-island-of-dolls-mexico.jpg

[Methais]

https://i2.wp.com/candlemaking.craftgossip.com/files/2016/10/the-island-of-dolls-mexico.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QFRF28Dnl0U/SYAVSgcqHmI/AAAAAAAAANI/qSNvWjh9_u4/s400/The.Office.S05E12.HDTV.XviD-LOL_007.jpg

[Fortybox]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QFRF28Dnl0U/SYAVSgcqHmI/AAAAAAAAANI/qSNvWjh9_u4/s400/The.Office.S05E12.HDTV.XviD-LOL_007.jpg

https://media1.giphy.com/media/yS2AMt4LX13Mc/giphy.gif

[AnOrdim]

I'm never gonna quit posting. I love you too much to leave you. Who couldn't love Forum's Ralph?
https://media.giphy.com/media/ASd0Ukj0y3qMM/giphy-facebook_s.jpg
You even used a whataboutism to ignore the problem. Are you a Simutronics shill?

[Methais]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/yS2AMt4LX13Mc/giphy.gif

https://i.imgur.com/JUZ8K2X.gif

[Fallen]

>Okay, yeah, we'll just blame the other GMs.
Its not about blaming anyone. We had one one system of padding/weighting for over 20 years. Most of our GMs have been GMing for 5-10 years or more and have it solidly set in their mind. Events are also often planned in advance. It takes a bit of time and pushing to swap from one solidly entrenched system to a brand new one. Its is not "lies" that we're trying to make this more available (and we have), but we're also not at the end point of this system transition either.

>My take from the wps changes was that I would be able to obtain it at anytime barring the ever increasing costs.

That is not entirely what we have in mind, no. If you're expecting to be able to plan for 15.8 services per month to hit a goal value in exactly 40 months, then that is a level of precision that we are -not- aiming for. However, we are aiming for you to be able to make measurable progress with your item based on how much effort you put into attending merchants and quest events, which we do want to have consistently (but not constantly or permanently) available.

Coase

[AnOrdim]

I hope Wyrom steps up to help the Dev team strike back and really give a solid answer as to why they can't seem to do jack dick without nerfing things. But, alas, Wyrom is not a forward facing staff member and it is not his job to Manage the Product as Product Manager.

[Gelston]

Gemstone Wars
Epsiode V: The Dev Team Strikes Back

[Fallen]

We have been making strides to automate where we can. The most merchant-heavy events in the more recent times have been events like RtCF/CCF, but we had pretty heavy attendance limitations and time limits to produce services. And during other events, we also have pretty big restriction lists that have for the most part been lessened or removed. You can also build some pretty awesome equipment now with freeing up the slot that WPS took. Automation does have to come with caveats though. It's the nature of the beast. But if you look at where we are today from the game of 2007, we are offering so much more.

We already offered more in 2017 than we have in any previous year. We serviced 484 characters at August's Duskruin alone. Yes, it can be argued that it wasn't HCW for everyone, but that's a lot better than 20 to 30 people for the entire year of 2017 like every year prior. We'd never be able to do live merchanting to service those kind of numbers though. Live merchanting, while personable and interactive, is extremely limiting.

This was just launched in August of 2017, looking at the offerings, we really did offer it a whole lot. We have plans to offer it even more in 2018, both at events like Duskruin and world events. As Coase mentioned, if you were expecting to progress an item rapidly, that wasn't the intended route of the system. But it is to hit a lot more players more frequently. It's not aimed to just service the same group of items like we've seen over the last 5 years.


Wyrom, PM

[AnOrdim]

8====D
sad part is Dev team so fucking stupid and greedy they cant see the obvious make everyone happy answer :
Leave a smithy in every town for scaling silvers costs - help offset the silver issues
duskruin smithy has no scaling costs - flat BS costs means people can pay their cash for HCP instantly at similar rates, no more double/triple dipping with the scaling costs now costing additional $$
BUTT ORDIM! THE BALANCE WONT SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE BALANCE?
Once again, Retser saves everyone’s ass by being A GOOD GM and already has the answer - the ability he put on the tanto that removes padding from things - give that to random monsters in a new are or sprinkle it on existing monsters as needed.
8====D

[SonoftheNorth]

Once again, Retser saves everyone’s ass by being A GOOD GM and already has the answer - the ability he put on the tanto that removes padding from things - give that to random monsters in a new are or sprinkle it on existing monsters as needed.



No

[Wrathbringer]

8====D
sad part is Dev team so fucking stupid and greedy they cant see the obvious make everyone happy answer :
Leave a smithy in every town for scaling silvers costs - help offset the silver issues
duskruin smithy has no scaling costs - flat BS costs means people can pay their cash for HCP instantly at similar rates, no more double/triple dipping with the scaling costs now costing additional $$
BUTT ORDIM! THE BALANCE WONT SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE BALANCE?
Once again, Retser saves everyone’s ass by being A GOOD GM and already has the answer - the ability he put on the tanto that removes padding from things - give that to random monsters in a new are or sprinkle it on existing monsters as needed.
8====D

I'm pretty sure you're one of Macgyver's alts at this point.

[AnOrdim]

I'm pretty sure you're one of Macgyver's alts at this point.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/11/40/ba/1140ba979bf3fb73af9ef9e5eaf549ce--auburn-hair-kid-sister.jpg

[AnOrdim]

No

Dont be a pussy, thats how balance REALLY works, you want toys, there are areas your toys are nullified or reduced to compensate. At the very least, put in a higher difficulty area that doesnt 100% remove but does impart possible reduction with the flip side being increased rewards (non degrading treasure, loot chests, or something similar).

[RevenantG]

Yup i ended up paying 8m for lcw on two items thats not even worth 800k in merchant value, they're nuts and just trying to get the major spenders only. I thought i actually won something and had 20 pts of weigting but it was only lcw and took all my coins. I rather would have lost. It's not fair when ppl have won hcw for 4m or so in the past and ruins the balance of this service

[RevenantG]

It makes no sense to target the 5%ers on such a major service leave it to buying property or something kinds desperate imo

[Archigeek]

You should assist. There is talk of a pricing bug on the officials.

[Wrathbringer]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/11/40/ba/1140ba979bf3fb73af9ef9e5eaf549ce--auburn-hair-kid-sister.jpg

confirmed ordim=macgyver