Ebon Gate and Microtransactions [Archive] - The Gemstone IV Players' Corner

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Fallen

08-07-2017, 05:04 PM

There is currently a sizable debate taking place on the officials regarding the introduction of microtransactions into EG. You will no longer have unlimited access to the games for the cost of a ticket. There are other details to the festival, including tiered pricing for access, but the main argument stems around the gating of access beyond Simucoin paywalls.
Here is the initial post in the thread for context:

Some may agree, others won't. Some won't care either way and continue to pay on these micro transactions being implemented on a large scale.

Maybe I'm just someone that likes how things functioned in the past and would like to see things stay that way....that's what I loved about Gemstone. What I do know is how much frustration and sadness I have hearing about how the last venue in GSIV (Ebon Gate) is taking an ugly turn to the micro transactions to nickel and dime customers.

I figured something distasteful would be coming our way when it was announced that EG tickets were changing to General Tickets and that a new currency would be introduced, but after hearing details of State of Elanthia from simucon feed, my thoughts about the direction this game is heading were confirmed (though I can honestly say it happened faster then I though it would). I can genuinely say I'm disgusted with the direction everything has gone the past few years. This was just the final piece that tipped me over the edge. I've been teetering for a while, but not anymore.

I hear EG will be open to all.
I hear the theme is changing to island/beach and you can earn seashell currency that's strictly EG only.
I know that EG tickets were changed to "general tickets" and the tickets may not even have any use at EG.
I hear EG will having digging, but it'll work like DR and require you to buy shovels/pickaxes via SimuCoins. Games at EG may also fall into this SimuCoin category as well.
I hear EG will have shops, but they won't be accessible unless you buy "a la carte" passes, which most likely means through SimuCoins.

So, gone are the days of being able to spend $40-75 (depending on the event and/or level of ticket) to have access to a week long event of shops/merchants and other special things only found at the event. Now they want everyone to have access to everything, but require you to spend money at the SimuCoin store for slot machine chances at digging, games and getting access to shops.

I thought maybe another year or two would be in store for the game staying away from all events being tied to nickle and diming folks for slot machine chances at stuff, but my estimated timetable was off. The entire game just feels like some sad attempt at cash grabbing now and I feel awful for those that have gambling problems that may sink ungodly amounts of money into the game for what I see as so little in return.

I suppose what I spend on the game is just a small drop in the bucket compared to other people.... The $700+ a year I put into it just isn't worth it anymore for me to support something that I find disgusting with how it's all changed. I have so much more to say about all this and everything else that bothers me, but it took great effort not to say what I already have without being nasty. I'm greatly disappointed and with a heavy heart, I bid this game farewell. I wish to remember this game how I once knew it and for what it was when I fell in love with it.

-Drumpel

The first and second of Wyrom's replies:

I understand your (everyone's) concerns with the pricing structure to events.

We balance the majority of everything at these microtrans events for smaller purchases. It might feel like you have to spend a lot, but that's if you want a lot.

I could go into a lot of this, but I'd likely come off defensive. All I'll say is, you're allowing something to bother you that doesn't have to bother you. And you're also judging EG before it has happened.

Just stop going to events if they bug you. Enjoy all the benefits that these events are giving the game as a whole.

----
One thing I heard a few times at SimuCon and that I see repeated on the forums is silver drain. I've talked about this before in more detail, but I'll say it again. Events are not silver drains. Events don't drain silvers. More silvers are generated at events and prior to events than are removed from events. When an event is happening, players just make more silver than ever before. If one trillion silver are made in a month on average, an event just causes players to generate 5 trillion silver a month before it starts.

Silver drains require tedium.

Wyrom, PM

And here is his last reply addressing a large amount of posts some time later.

>>Have we really fallen so far down the micro transaction hole? Now we've gone from telling people that not all events are for everyone, when micro transactions are a concern, to just don't go to any events? I understand the sentiment of "wait for more details" but this makes me worry that I won't like them shen I hear them.

No, but at the end of the day, events are extras that we put on. They don't hinder gameplay. They are 100% optional to go to. If you don't enjoy something, the best way to tell us is by not going. Offer feedback (after the fact). Tell us where to improve.

>>So let me ask, straight up, can I pay $50 and get thr same level of access to EG this year that I got last year? Keep in mind that included digging and/or games for 8+ hours a day while the event was open. Beyond that are there any plans to continue running at least one yearly event which has a flat access fee to enjoy ALL aspects of the event without any micro transactions present?

Simply put, no. A person doing EG 120 hours during the course of it being opened is on the high side of everything. You represent a group of outliers when we look at the data.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, the all-inclusive event ticket was not helping us grow. We hardly made our targets when it came to those revenue streams.

Whether you care about GM morale or not is up to you, but I will let you know that things are in a better position these days. Look at old posts or even look at the GM roster. We have staff that have been here for years. Turnover is not as high as it use to be. You have experienced staff who are constantly getting better at what they are doing.

Events are also a great way for GMs to earn some extra money.

>>I'm trying to trust you here because you've always been great. I hope the details you want us to wait for bear that out. It just sounds like every event is turning into a reskinnrd form of Dudkruin and I despise that pricing model. I justify event purchases on an enjoyment hour per dollar basis compared to buying a new console RPG. EG always met that criteria and DR never had.

Ebon Gate is not going to be a reskinned Duskruin. Yes, some of what we've learned from Duskruin is being applied to the new Ebon Gate, but GM Haliste and I had many meetings on Skype and through Google Hangouts on what to do here. I don't feel like I've ever done something to make you (the players) not trust me. You might not have been happy about an update, but I come here to keep the communication open with you.

>>Bottom line, if we've gone from some events aren't for me to no events are then maybe the game isn't for me anymore. Events are the draw that hooks me back in after a break. without them I'm likely to just fade away.

That's up to you. But we're also doing things that aren't pay events now too.

>>No offense but this statement really really bugs me. No passive agressivness here. You have said that about a number of events lately. Besides Briarmoon Cove, Ebon Gate was one of the truly fun events. I pay my 50 dollars and go get merchant, neat stuff, and play games for silvers or dig. I like Duskruin as well but that's a simucoin event.

Ebon Gate is going to be a great event. Try not to take offense to the comment. It was genuine when I posted it. We have to modernize our approach though, because doing things like we have been over the years... We have 30 years of data to support that.

>>If i don't like fluff maybe this one isn't for me. If i don't like this maybe it's not for me. Well I love EBON Gate and want to keep on loving it.

Ebon Gate has always been a venue to debut new stuff. It's not the most powerful event. It's not the most fluff event. It's always been an event where lots of GMs code new things. That's not changing.

>>DRUMPEL's math

I went to review your specific data after your original post, and I'm not seeing you having much historic data with pay events. But either way, I'll address the math.

Digging/Games have very low odds under silver. Events like Duskruin, DM, etc have much higher odds and always have results that give something of value. YOU might not value it, but we make sure the return is equivalent to the SimuCoin buy in. So while your numbers are accurate, it's not the same. And EG isn't going to be the same as the Duskruin Dig. But digging (and games) didn't ever make up a quarter of the attendees activity. Even the Necropolis was only completed by about 25% of accounts that went. I speak for the majority of the data when I say the numbers.

>>Ya'll are changing something that has been pretty much the same for a very long time, and in an unsettling direction. I understand that judgement is somewhat premature, but when the PM replies with for all intents and purposes "If you don't like it, go spit!," well...

Yes, we're modernizing the game and trying to grow. Nothing we did prior had growth. Nothing we did prior moved us in a direction other than in a downward spiral over the years. I'm not telling anyone to "go spit" but I'm certainly saying if you don't think you'd enjoy this, no need to go. It's an extra. You're not going to hurt our feelings if you don't want to go.

>>What I really dislike though, is the introduction of yet another form of currency. You continue to devalue Silvers, by simply not using them. You can say "events don't drain silvers" till you're blue in the face, but what you are doing does indeed have an impact on the economy of the game, and a healthy, robust economy is one of the hallmarks of Gemstone that most games have not been able to replicate. There has to be a use for the silvers we generate by playing the game on a daily basis. Introducing alt currencies takes away from that.

We drained more silver at the 2016 auction than we would have drained in 10 Ebon Gates. So I find it hard to get on that level that we're not draining silver in the same regard. Saying we are devaluing isn't true. This is very anecdotal. We just are balancing pay events differently.

I'll close this post by saying I also think a lot of you are forgetting about the SimuCoin Rewards every month as well. Some of you saving won't even pay a thing outside your subscription cost. It's hard to tell us this model isn't working when we are seeing participation counts that are 1000% higher than ever before. And I'm talking about people going to the event, not how much they bring in.

Wyrom, PM

Tenlaar

08-07-2017, 05:06 PM

Who could have possibly seen this coming since the very day they announced the simustore.

Mogonis

08-07-2017, 05:10 PM

I'm not a fan of a la carte EG, but it's the time we live in now.

Archigeek

08-07-2017, 05:24 PM

I don't mind the ala cart as much as the continued addition of alt-currencies. They are messy and short lived and lead to people not getting their money's worth when a given currency is no longer in vogue and they're stuck with a pile of it. It also really fucks with the value of silvers... which are now worth less because most cool things you can buy need to be purchased with alt-currencies.

Astray

08-07-2017, 05:27 PM

https://media.giphy.com/media/uY0zZnQqZD8Jy/giphy.gif

Mogonis

08-07-2017, 05:28 PM

Agreed, the currencies are getting convoluted.

I hadn't paid for an event until EG 2014, and I've been to the last three. I don't know if EG will be as fun having to piecemeal access through the SimuCoin store, but I'll wait to see what it entails.

Fallen

08-07-2017, 05:32 PM

My thoughts on the event:

I understand Simu is attempting to move to a microtransaction model (while still maintaining a significant subscription fee), but it would be nice to have one holdout which maintains the standard of the old model. For many, Ebon Gate is the only festival they will attend all year. Why not make EG the one festival that will always have a full access ticket and allows all purchases in silvers? Secondary currency is fine, as long as a point of access to that currency is silvers.

Astray

08-07-2017, 05:40 PM

They've moved on from relying on silvers because people have an abundance of it. Somehow... lessening the... I'm not really sure but fuck it! Moving on!

They introduce another currency. Whatever. This currency is Seashells, not Scrip, and is used to buy things from EG. Different. So very different. A round of applause for all the hard work that goes into the reworking of this event, please.

Tenlaar

08-07-2017, 05:47 PM

All I'll say is, you're allowing something to bother you that doesn't have to bother you. And you're also judging EG before it has happened.

Just stop going to events if they bug you. Enjoy all the benefits that these events are giving the game as a whole.

By the way, this is exactly the "fuck you" attitude that Simutronics employees are so famous for. Good grief what a dickish thing to say to your customers.

"No man, if you just stop not liking this thing then you can like it. You don't have to not like it just because it's a bullshit thing, you can CHOOSE to like it and then we're not a terrible company any more! And if not, well I don't know, I guess stop going to events?"

Astray

08-07-2017, 05:49 PM

By the way, this is exactly the "fuck you" attitude that Simutronics employees are so famous for. Good grief what a dickish thing to say to your customers.

"No man, if you just stop not liking this thing then you can like it. You don't have to not like it just because it's a bullshit thing, you can CHOOSE to like it and then we're not a terrible company any more!"

I love how he just brushes over the typically overpowered or generally unique items and the subsequent rarity that comes along with them.

No, but at the end of the day, events are extras that we put on.

I wish I had gone to Simucon.

subzero

08-07-2017, 05:50 PM

I like that they're modernizing the game with microtransactions and still running with the highest priced subscription model you've ever seen for a game.

On the other hand... you can't really blame them too much. They know how much most of you guys are willing to pay, in cash, for items, silvers, and characters. I suppose they finally decided to tax you merchants.

Astray

08-07-2017, 05:54 PM

Yulis

08-07-2017, 07:24 PM

Yeah, I responded (not so kindly) to Wyrom's posts and he pulled it. Perhaps I was a bit too harsh in my response, but I stand by it:

>>DRUMPEL's math

I went to review your specific data after your original post, and I'm not seeing you having much historic data with pay events. But either way, I'll address the math.

Oh, a shot from the higher up! Way to be professional, though you probably don't give a rip about my current status since I've made it clear I'm leaving the game. If you feel it's best to get a cheap shot in when you can, then by all means, do so at my expense.

I haven't been around non-stop since 1994 and my first pay event, even though I know some were held before it, was the first Dhu Gillywack. I've had numerous subscription accounts in GS over the many years (a couple I can't even remember the account names for). I can recall 7 pay events I've attend across numerous accounts (most on this account).

I've seen countless times how you and your staff address people on the forums when you feel like you're personally being attacked and it's rather pathetic. Perhaps you could be a little less of a dick in your snide remarks and actually post professionally if you're the face or even just an employee that is posting on the forums with such comments as:

Just stop going to events if they bug you. Enjoy all the benefits that these events are giving the game as a whole.
Wyrom, PM

It's not the first time you've made comments like this, but it should never have been a comment you ever make towards your paying customers.

Digging/Games have very low odds under silver. Events like Duskruin, DM, etc have much higher odds and always have results that give something of value. YOU might not value it, but we make sure the return is equivalent to the SimuCoin buy in. So while your numbers are accurate, it's not the same. And EG isn't going to be the same as the Duskruin Dig. But digging (and games) didn't ever make up a quarter of the attendees activity. Even the Necropolis was only completed by about 25% of accounts that went. I speak for the majority of the data when I say the numbers.

It's not about the return you gain from doing digs/games with silvers. People know and have had access to the digging and games from past EG with silvers and know what kind of return you get. It's the fact that you're taking away the one last useful venue that makes silvers in game more than something that simply exchanges hands. People greatly enjoyed hanging out, spending in game silvers and digging or playing games with friends and having a good time. The game isn't simply about instant gratification and you guys seem to have forgotten that over the past few years and clearly it's gotten worse.

It's also about you guys tanking the in game economy with "special" currencies you tie to your pay-to-play events that are causing issues with silvers. You claim silver drains aren't effective, yet you make bloodscrip, EG tickets (now general tickets - which are probably completely worthless now) and now some "seashell" currency for EG. You pigeon hole people into working up "special" currencies to buy items and you greatly devalue the actual in game currency that folks earn on their characters from hunting/skinning/selling treasures.

You don't like my posts? That's okay, don't respond to them. If you do, you're the front man for the business - you are our last stop on the rise to the top with issues. You are the face that we see and deal with. Conduct your business professionally, even if your feelings are hurt or if you just think the person posting is being a selfish ass and is only thinking of him/herself. If your posts are crude, rude, disrespectful, snide or hide some underlying notion of disrespect to your customer base, what's to stop anyone else that works under you from doing the same?

I may not like the direction this game went and I'm pulling away, but in my process I am giving other players a chance to acquire a few items I think may be beneficial to keep in the lands before my accounts close.

Am I bitter about it all? Sure. I do my best to not be a complete ass about it, but as a paying customer (yes, I've paid and I still have time left on this montly fee that was deducted from my bank) I have a right to post my distaste of things and sometimes my comments may come off more bitter than what you're used to seeing. That means you should look at the situation and address it accordingly to safe face or at least try to put people's concerns at ease.

Comments like you guys have posted towards customers makes me wonder how you keep your jobs. I don't talk to customers at my work like that, even if they've pissed me off to no ends. I'll gather myself, keep face and address the customer the best I can. I will then relay my interaction with the customer to my boss or owner of the company, but I don't tell the customer off and just tell them to deal with it.

Take this post how you want. My suggest would be, don't respond to it because you seem to lack the ability to do so in a professional manner....unless you wish to give a try, by all means, then go for it.

-Drumpel

SashaFierce

08-07-2017, 07:30 PM

Yeah, I responded (not so kindly) to Wyrom's posts and he pulled it. Perhaps I was a bit too harsh in my response, but I stand by it:

-Drumpel [/I]

Pretty sure it was the dick comment. (That caused the pulling)

Yulis

08-07-2017, 07:34 PM

Pretty sure it was the dick comment. (That caused the pulling)

Most likely, but I call it like I see it. A dickish response/remark gets called for what it is. I don't enjoy pulling punches and posting on the officials you have to...I guess I'm at the, I just don't care anymore stage of the crappy comments customers get in return from NIR.

Astray

08-07-2017, 07:34 PM

Fyrentennimar

08-07-2017, 07:37 PM

I wonder if it would have lasted 10 seconds if you left out dick. Probably still not but yeah, their policy change that lets them ban you from the game for simply annoying them is kind of a sign in and of itself. Can you imagine if your health insurance could drop you because you had to keep calling and complaining?

Yulis

08-07-2017, 07:43 PM

Wyrom is a shining example on why Simutronics is awful at handling negative feedback. They brush it aside, blame it on the players, and just say "Fuck you" in an official 'statement'.

God I wish I had set aside time to go to Simucon.

Here was his reasoning for pulling my post:

DRUMPEL,

Your post has been hidden and you've been issued a warning.

Your comment wasn't called for, calling us rude and disrespectful, when all we were doing is taking the time to respond to you. You're clearly upset, but you're definitely inserting your own emotion into what I'm saying.

I looked at your data and I don't see much that shows you go to events. That's what I was talking about. You've done October 2015 and September 2008. You've also purchased 2 100-use pickaxes as well a 1 entry to Reim. So when I see people clearly upset, I go to see how much its affecting them. I do my research on every complaint that comes my way.

If you want to call me unprofessional, you can take it to feedback. I've gone ahead and CC'd them onto your warning to have a copy of your post.

Wyrom

I've had more EG transactions than 2. I've done past events events as well. I tried DR dig (spent $20) and I got shit in return. Almost 1/2 the cost attending EG (roughly $50) and I got shit in return from digging. Mathematically it was a horrible invenstment . Why would I want to spend cash on a RNG gamble when I can do better in EG with silvers that I acquire on my normal paid subscription?

Oh wait, we can't do that anymore. You want to dig with silvers? Nope, you have to now buy shovels/pickaxes through the SimuStore.
You want to play games with silver? Nope, you have to buy passes to play games through the SimuStore.

I'm tired of his shitty replies to people of "if you don't like it, don't do it". Any decent customer service would take the concern and address it in a well thought out manner and not just blow the customer off with a back-handed fuck you.

I'm not scared of going toe-to-toe with them. I'll speak my mind and tell them how it is. Sad thing is, it just gets swept under the rug (posts pulled or ignored if sent to feedback) so no one (customers) is the wiser of any issues that are brought up just so Wyrom can try to save face with the situation.

Luftstreitkräfte

08-07-2017, 07:48 PM

We're really lucky to have such great staff with Wyrom as the cherry on top. Let's give them as much positive encouragement as possible.

Luftstreitkräfte

08-07-2017, 07:49 PM

waahwee waahwee frickin waahwee.

STFU

Tenlaar

08-07-2017, 07:54 PM

Wyrom is a shining example on why Simutronics is awful at handling negative feedback. They brush it aside, blame it on the players, and just say "Fuck you" in an official 'statement'.

God I wish I had set aside time to go to Simucon.

The sad part is how much help they get with it from some players, too. One of the final straws for me was years ago when another player told me that I should be appreciative that after 10 months of complete silence despite multiple people asking for an update on a particular project...10 months of silence that came AFTER it was reported that the project was in it's final stages and was really for real happening this time for reals and there was huge progress...a GM unrelated to the project finally answered and said we shouldn't expect it to happen. That was it.

Having another customer tell me that I should be APPRECIATIVE of that level of "customer service" for a game that easily costs as much as the monthly fees for up to four other games is just such a clear indicator of how completely fucked up the company's relationship with it's customers is. They've managed to create their own group of addicts who will take anything with a smile as long as they get to keep logging in, and it's pretty gross all around.

Tenlaar

08-07-2017, 07:56 PM

Oh yeah, and I'll happily call Wyrom unprofessional as fuck right here too.

Tgo01

08-07-2017, 07:58 PM

God I wish I had set aside time to go to Simucon.

Astray is going to practice his unarmed combat at the Simucon.

Astray

08-07-2017, 08:07 PM

Astray is going to practice his unarmed combat at the Simucon.

Nah. I'd probably be escorted out though. Because at one point I'd call Wyrom a cock sucker and violate some TOS somewhere of not kissing ass and enjoying the deep, unlubricated fisting.

Allereli

08-07-2017, 08:10 PM

Tgo01

08-07-2017, 08:14 PM

Nah. I'd probably be escorted out though. Because at one point I'd call Wyrom a cock sucker and violate some TOS somewhere of not kissing ass and enjoying the deep, unlubricated fisting.

You take this fisting and you like it!

SashaFierce

08-07-2017, 08:22 PM

I've had plenty of complaints about things.

Whenever I've spoken to Wyrom about any of them he's always been super easy to talk to, professional, and understanding of the situation.

Ebon Gate is changing. That's just a fact that people are going to have to accept. If you don't like that fact, you can voice your opinion by not participating. I can't knock him for stating the truth.

None of us know the specific demands placed upon him for revenue generation from events given by his superiors. They likely see the income generation by the simucoin events and try to implement that to a wider array of paid-events.

Right now, everyone is speculating about what the new EG is going to be like, when we're just going to have to take a wait-and-see approach.

I too have concerns about the influx of people at merchants. Last EG was kind of bad in the fact that there were 100-200 people at every merchant. Maybe they'll come up with a new way to handle that by offering multiple merchants at different locations at the same time to break up the crowds. Maybe raffles will be improved to offer additional quantities of whatever is being raffled depending on how many people enter. They have options to address the concerns that have been expressed.

Tenlaar

08-07-2017, 08:31 PM

Right now, everyone is speculating about what the new EG is going to be like, when we're just going to have to take a wait-and-see approach.

This isn't speculation...

>>So let me ask, straight up, can I pay $50 and get thr same level of access to EG this year that I got last year? Keep in mind that included digging and/or games for 8+ hours a day while the event was open. Beyond that are there any plans to continue running at least one yearly event which has a flat access fee to enjoy ALL aspects of the event without any micro transactions present?

Simply put, no.

SashaFierce

08-07-2017, 08:36 PM

This isn't speculation...

Right, the games are moving to microtrans, but the rest of EG is likely to be cheaper than $50.

beldannon5

08-07-2017, 08:45 PM

The games for simucoins is really annoying me. However the possible lowering of prices and letting more people do raffles and merchants is making me boil a bit. Like sashafierce said the 100-200 people that were already a lot can you imagine if there are 400-500 people because of lower prices. EG is the one event you don't have to fight quite as many people. Sure it maybe a little selfish. However i would like a raffle i have a chance in. until they start adding items when it gets over 100 and 200 etc then it's not right IMO!

hello

08-07-2017, 08:55 PM

Tgo01

08-07-2017, 08:57 PM

Isn't it kind of over kill to have all of these events turn into Simucoin cash grabs?

It was one thing when Duskruin was doing it, that was sort of Duskruin's thing. But if every event turns into a Simucoin cash grab then the events pretty much just all turn into the same thing.

I also don't like to see Simu themselves devalue silvers as much as they have with these alternative currencies. That was one thing I've always respected about GS, the way they managed to keep a relevant active in game economy, despite those evil people selling silvers for real money. With most games the currency largely becomes worthless because everyone and their mother eventually caps and starts earning 100 billion <insert currency name here> and the economy mostly crashes.

But silvers in GS have always had value. But it seems more and more silvers are falling into disuse in favor of some other currency that only has value in one aspect of the game. Simucoins and all of the services provided by Simucoins that you can't get with silvers. Bloodscrip that you can't use anywhere else. Now seashells you can't use anywhere else.

I have a feeling if there is ever a large event like RTCF again it won't be all about draining silvers from the economy but rather all of the services will be bought and paid for by Simucoins.

beldannon5

08-07-2017, 09:07 PM

wow hello is actually on point for once :)

subzero

08-07-2017, 09:08 PM

Just do yourselves a favor. Cancel. You'll be happier.

Tgo01

08-07-2017, 09:10 PM

Just do yourselves a favor. Cancel. You'll be happier.

You can't tell me what to do! You're not my real dad!

Tenlaar

08-07-2017, 09:11 PM

I have a feeling if there is ever a large event like RTCF again it won't be all about draining silvers from the economy but rather all of the services will be bought and paid for by Simucoins.

Of course they will. They have been slowly and surely moving from just getting things with the (ridiculously high) subscription fee you already pay to having to pay extra on top of it since the inception of the simu store, and that's clearly not changing. They will continue to push it further and further because they are in the rare position of having a player base that is largely adult, at least moderately well employed, and has invested so much in the game over the last 10 to 20 years that they don't want to just walk away. And they know it.

ArchSenex

08-07-2017, 09:11 PM

Gelston

08-07-2017, 09:16 PM

Hmm.. I was planning to reactivate again for EG, like I did last year... If the games are simucoin based though, nah. I've been going back and forth between being active in GS and not.. I don't mind paying $40 or $50 for an event with unlimited games that cost the IG currency, but needing simucoins to play games, even with entry being free.. It is really immersion breaking and I feel as though it will only be getting worse. I don't spend nearly as much as other on GS anymore, but I guess I'll go ahead and put the amount I spend to an even lower amount. Looks like this might be the proverbial straw for me.

Archigeek

08-07-2017, 09:18 PM

Wyrom is torn between you guys (silver sellers) and normal players. Noone will drop 500 bucks at one event on some MUD (and still have a roof over their heads much less a internet connection) without some ability to mitigate (silver sales). And unfortunately, I'm afraid these big spenders are skewing Wyrom's decision.

The smart move would've been to leave EG alone/sacred (the flagship event) and let people just enjoy this last tidbit of 'innocence' hearkening back to yesteryears. Then turn-around and make your money through dig/dusk/DM and perhaps another 'slot-machine' event.

Also, Wyrom, you have to STOP trying to predict the future motives/desires/spending potential of players by checking up on their 'account history'. Amateur business people love to cling to past numbers like some safety blanket but the pros (the real professional con artists of the world) know that the past is bullshit and not indicative of the future. I'am seriously waiting on a SIMUCOIN sale, probably going to drop 1000$(clean! not silver sale money) once one pops.

It's obvious you don't really know how the economics work here. Devaluing of silvers is a much worse deal for those who do not do cash transactions. Just take a look at any game that has junk currency. Almost all transactions go to cash or trade. That's what will happen when silvers are worthless. This isn't about SIMU "getting a piece of the action." That is the biggest bullshit lack of understanding of how economics work in this game.

Silvers make the economy of Gemstone fluid. Devaluing silvers will continue to make it harder and harder for the average Joe to buy stuff without opening up their PayPal account. You can see it already, where more and more auctions are cash only or cash preferred.

I agree with your last comment. It's a little disturbing when you hear, "well I looked at what you buy and it isn't what you say you buy... (or what we're selling at this event)" That's the kind of conversation that should be kept private.

SashaFierce

08-07-2017, 09:31 PM

Isn't it kind of over kill to have all of these events turn into Simucoin cash grabs?

http://cws.huginonline.com/S/171481/PR/201606/2021971_5.html

Furthermore, an earn-out consideration consisting partly of cash and partly of equity will be paid based on the financial performance of Simutronics during 2017.

This is the driving force behind simucoins events. Simutronics will receive a "bonus" based upon 2017 financial performance.

So bashing on Wyrom doesn't really help anything, as it's most likely a top-down decision that he is forced to implement.

Tgo01

08-07-2017, 09:34 PM

Silver drains require tedium.

Like digging that requires buying a new shovel every 10 uses or whatever and you have to dig thousands of times to find something halfway decent? If that's not considered tedium I hate to see what Simu does consider tedium :O

Tgo01

08-07-2017, 09:38 PM

http://cws.huginonline.com/S/171481/PR/201606/2021971_5.html

This is the driving force behind simucoins events. Simutronics will receive a "bonus" based upon 2017 financial performance.

That's actually a good point. Sounds like 2017 in particular is important because it's part of the acquisition deal to pay Simu more money depending on 2017 performance.

So bashing on Wyrom doesn't really help anything, as it's most likely a top-down decision that he is forced to implement.

Yeah I don't think Wyrom is the one making the decisions to do more Simucoin events. I think people are just taking umbrage with his handling of players' complaints.

drauz

08-07-2017, 09:39 PM

One reason I support a change to EG is the change from it becoming a complete rat race to "get my money's worth," to instead be "pay for what I have time to do." I've already posted displeasure on the officials about the new shell currency along with audibly groaning at the 'con announcement loud and close enough for Wyrom to hear me, but I'm open to seeing the format change.

I would like there to be the "general" currency that is there now and just price everything based on that.

Or even just 2 currencies, one for free events and one for paid events.

Tired of all the conversion rates.

hello

08-07-2017, 09:44 PM

http://cws.huginonline.com/S/171481/PR/201606/2021971_5.html

This is the driving force behind simucoins events. Simutronics will receive a "bonus" based upon 2017 financial performance.

Thanks Sashafierce for that link; it's interesting. This is to be expected.

I'm not sure what kind of deal Whatley made with Stillfront. But, I do know one thing. If all this explodes, don't blame Wyrom; I can't imagine the enormous pressure he's under, the phone calls in the vein of, " I need those fucking Q4 numbers up do you understand you $&@& ?!!".

Wyrom got into Gemstone through passion and love (yes, love for something he enjoyed doing, imho one of the purest kinds of love). And now he's toiling under the dark underbelly (whenever you throw money into the mix everything becomes dark and fucked up); he probably can't stand Gemstone right now, just sick of it. The stress is probably nightmarish.

But you guys have to remember one thing. This is Wyrom's job and livelihood. This is how he feeds his family. He doesn't have Whatley bucks aston martin money nor does he have a golden parachute if things go south. So, I think we all need to be cognizant of that fact before going forward on this debate.

C.Difficile

08-07-2017, 09:46 PM

That's actually a good point. Sounds like 2017 in particular is important because it's part of the acquisition deal to pay Simu more money depending on 2017 performance.

One clarification. The 2017 "earn-out" is the bonus the owner gets (or will get) as part of the compensation for selling his controlling stake in Simu to Stillfront. "Simu" doesn't receive the bonus.

hello

08-07-2017, 09:49 PM

One clarification. The 2017 "earn-out" is the bonus the owner gets (or will get) as part of the compensation for selling his controlling stake in Simu to Stillfront. "Simu" doesn't receive the bonus.

My only concern is if this is JUST 2017 or some kind of perpetual deal where if you keep hitting numbers you'll keep getting bonuses. This would be truly fucked up.

C.Difficile

08-07-2017, 09:54 PM

C.Difficile

08-07-2017, 09:55 PM

My only concern is if this is JUST 2017 or some kind of perpetual deal where if you keep hitting numbers you'll keep getting bonuses. This would be truly fucked up.

It's in the annual report. One time deal, 2017 only.

Tgo01

08-07-2017, 09:55 PM

One clarification. The 2017 "earn-out" is the bonus the owner gets (or will get) as part of the compensation for selling his controlling stake in Simu to Stillfront. "Simu" doesn't receive the bonus.

Well yeah. "Simu" being Whately and this mysterious other person above Wyrom that no one knows about.

Tgo01

08-07-2017, 09:57 PM

I'll grab a $1000 simucoin package (sometimes two) without a thought

You need silvers? I sell for 12 dollars per million.

Winter

08-07-2017, 10:02 PM

Well yeah. "Simu" being Whately and this mysterious other person above Wyrom that no one knows about.

Jorgen?

Tgo01

08-07-2017, 10:04 PM

Jorgen?

Who the hell is that? How do you know that? Who do you work for? How many fingers am I holding up?

drauz

08-07-2017, 10:07 PM

Who the hell is that? How do you know that? Who do you work for? How many fingers am I holding up?

3 fingers

hello

08-07-2017, 10:13 PM

I think you're underestimating how many GS IV whales there are. I am one. I'll grab a $1000 simucoin package (sometimes two) without a thought and I neither sell silver nor harvest silver in game. Think hard about how the population of this game tends to skew vs. the general population: geekier, more well-read, smarter in general. These things tend to correlate to higher incomes.

If GS IV offered a guaranteed CCF/RTCF guaranteed service event, 25 tickets at $1000 each, I'd buy. I think they would sell out, honestly.

Da fuq dude, if that's the case splurge on some aston martins and buy an island what the fuck would you want to play this?! And/or if things get too fucked buy GS from stillfront and redirect devs on QC, Bug fixes, more gameplay dev, and of course Savants.

P.S. Savants.

Tgo01

08-07-2017, 10:15 PM

3 fingers

I can never get anything passed you :(

Winter

08-07-2017, 10:18 PM

Who the hell is that?
Jorgen Larsson, he's Stillfront's CEO

How many fingers am I holding up?

11

drauz

08-07-2017, 10:18 PM

I can never get anything passed you :(

If you move that mirror I could see better.

SashaFierce

08-07-2017, 10:55 PM

I’ve actually spoken to several people that once this forum was up and running I would be moving here. While @Alastir did speak on my behalf, he was also aware of the plan.

As for the thread, I will be responding officially later tonight a bit, since I feel a few things are being taken out of context or mixed with emotions that I am not placing in my posts.

https://forums.elanthia.online/topic/34/event-ebon-gate-microtrans-discussion-w-wyrom/8

Mogonis

08-07-2017, 10:56 PM

So you don't like linking to the PC from the new forum, but you're fine posting links here to the new forum.

Fortybox

08-07-2017, 10:57 PM

https://forums.elanthia.online/topic/34/event-ebon-gate-microtrans-discussion-w-wyrom/8

The new safe space forums!!!

Fortybox

08-07-2017, 10:59 PM

So you don't like linking to the PC from the new forum, but you're fine posting links here to the new forum.

It's a deliberate attempt to take down the PC. Several folks have been trying to do this for a while. Sounds like Wyrom is part of the coup d'état!

Tgo01

08-07-2017, 11:02 PM

https://forums.elanthia.online/topic/34/event-ebon-gate-microtrans-discussion-w-wyrom/8

So let me get this straight. That new kid friendly forum is actively discouraging mentioning the PC in their discussions but you'll be directing traffic from our forum to this new forum? A forum which has Whirlin as one of the moderators? So the sole mod of THIS forum is actively trying to shut down this forum for this other forum?

Fuck this shit.

Tgo01

08-07-2017, 11:06 PM

It's a deliberate attempt to take down the PC. Several folks have been trying to do this for a while. Sounds like Wyrom is part of the coup d'état!

Yeah really. Took forever to get an official Simu rep over here and apparently he could only handle the heat for what, one year here? Now he has to move to an even more more politically correct version of the officials.

Fortybox

08-07-2017, 11:06 PM

I LOL'd. Look at this:

Code of Conduct
This policy is a “living” document, and subject to refinement and expansion in the future.

The Landing is dedicated to providing a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, race, or religion. We do not tolerate harassment of participants in any form.

This code of conduct applies to all The Landing-sponsored spaces, including our community Slack, open-source projects, and other spaces that The Landing hosts, both online and off. Anyone who violates this code of conduct may be sanctioned or expelled from these spaces at the discretion of the The Landing admin team.

Some The Landing-sponsored spaces may have additional rules in place, which will be made clearly available to participants. Participants are responsible for knowing and abiding by these rules.
Definitions

Harassment Includes:

Offensive comments related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, mental illness, neuro(a)typicality, physical appearance, body size, race, or religion
Unwelcome comments regarding a person’s lifestyle choices and practices, including those related to food, health, parenting, drugs, and employment.
Deliberate misgendering or use of ‘dead’ or rejected names
Gratuitous or off-topic sexual images or behaviour in spaces where they’re not appropriate
Physical contact and simulated physical contact (eg, textual descriptions like “hug” or “backrub”) without consent or after a request to stop.
Threats of violence
Incitement of violence towards any individual, including encouraging a person to commit suicide or to engage in self-harm
Deliberate intimidation
Stalking or following
Harassing photography or recording, including logging online activity for harassment purposes
Sustained disruption of discussion
Unwelcome sexual attention
Pattern of inappropriate social contact, such as requesting/assuming inappropriate levels of intimacy with others
Continued one-on-one communication after requests to cease
Deliberate “outing” of any aspect of a person’s identity without their consent except as necessary to protect other The Landing community members or other vulnerable people from intentional abuse
Publication of non-harassing private communication without consent of all involved parties
General Rules

You are not permitted to use any personal data (including, but not limited to, name, email, or phone number) from a member of this community without their permission. Any wholesale data collection, such as collecting email addresses for a mailing list, is prohibited and will be reported.

Active community members are welcome (and encouraged) to share products and services they’re working on. However, The Landing is not an ad space, and should not be treated as such. Any posts perceived to be spam may be removed without notice at the discretion of the admin team. Users are encouraged to report spam-like behavior to the admin team.

Gemstone IV Staff are volunteers which work very hard to create an enjoyable gaming experience, and while we welcome healthy criticism, personal attacks against them have no place in a more healthy community, whether they are active posters or not. Please keep in mind that Gamemasters are not Simutronics the company, in a similar way to how a character is not the player.

Reporting

If you are being harassed by a member of the The Landing community, notice that someone else is being harassed, witness a member of the community breaking the rules, or have any other concerns, please contact one of the The Landing admins. If the person who is harassing you is an admin, they will recuse themselves from handling your incident. We will respond as promptly as we can.

This code of conduct applies to The Landing-sponsored spaces, but if you are being harassed by a member of the The Landing community outside our spaces, we still want to know about it. We will take all good-faith reports of harassment by The Landing community members seriously. This includes harassment outside our spaces and harassment that took place at any point in time. The abuse team reserves the right to exclude people from the The Landing community based on their past behavior, including behavior outside The Landing spaces and behavior towards people who are not in the The Landing community.

In order to protect volunteers from abuse and burnout, we reserve the right to reject any report we believe to have been made in bad faith. The The Landing admins are not here to explain power differentials or other basic social justice concepts to you. Reports intended to silence legitimate criticism may be deleted without response.

We will respect confidentiality requests for the purpose of protecting victims of abuse. At our discretion, we may publicly name a person about whom we’ve received harassment complaints, or privately warn third parties about them, if we believe that doing so will increase the safety of The Landing members or the general public.

Consequences

Participants asked to stop any harassing or unauthorized behavior are expected to comply immediately.

If a participant engages in harassing behavior, the The Landing admins may take any action they deem appropriate, up to and including expulsion from all The Landing spaces and identification of the participant as a harasser to other The Landing community members or the general public.

Mogonis

08-07-2017, 11:07 PM

Careful, he'll PM you to discuss it.

https://image.ibb.co/khehSF/chat.png

hello

08-07-2017, 11:09 PM

The new safe space forums!!!

With Wyrom moving there, it'll be the official officials, and this place would just be about selling silvers and fucking around. Heck if that new forum has a merch folder it just may become the go to place for selling too.

Good move on no politics/offtopics folder.

Also, FUCKING BRUTAL MODERATION. I won't move to that forum unless the moderation gets shitty; then I'll infest that place like I do here!!

Candor

08-07-2017, 11:11 PM

I think you're underestimating how many GS IV whales there are. I am one. I'll grab a $1000 simucoin package (sometimes two) without a thought and I neither sell silver nor harvest silver in game. Think hard about how the population of this game tends to skew vs. the general population: geekier, more well-read, smarter in general. These things tend to correlate to higher incomes.

If GS IV offered a guaranteed CCF/RTCF guaranteed service event, 25 tickets at $1000 each, I'd buy. I think they would sell out, honestly.

While I would not classify myself as a whale, I am probably willing to spend more than the average person on the PC. I wouldn't buy a guaranteed service event for $1000, but if the cost were in the $300-$400 range...sure.

Tgo01

08-07-2017, 11:12 PM

Fortybox

08-07-2017, 11:12 PM

With Wyrom moving there, it'll be the official officials, and this place would just be about selling silvers and fucking around. Heck if that new forum has a merch folder it just may become the go to place for selling too.

Good move on no politics/offtopics folder.

Also, FUCKING BRUTAL MODERATION. I won't move to that forum unless the moderation gets shitty; then I'll infest that place like I do here!!

We'll see how this goes. The PC was a place to get away from the stupidity of Simu's "official" forums. Having an official official forum is just...stupid.

SashaFierce

08-07-2017, 11:13 PM

Careful, he'll PM you to discuss it.

https://image.ibb.co/khehSF/chat.png

You were looking to start an argument, like usual. I chose to be an adult about it and give you the opportunity to express your emotions. (In private, where the forum didn't have to get clogged up with your drama.)

Fortybox

08-07-2017, 11:14 PM

Fuck those new forums. Why are people willingly moving to the official forums that goes up to 11?

I thought the whole point of the PC is they are NOT the official forums. Those new forums seem even more restrictive than the officials.

It's an attempt to bring the PC down. Seems like Wyrom wants this as well. People have WAY too much time on their hands.

drauz

08-07-2017, 11:16 PM

Code of Conduct
This policy is a “living” document, and subject to refinement and expansion in the future.

The Landing is dedicated to providing a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, race, or religion. We do not tolerate harassment of participants in any form.

This code of conduct applies to all The Landing-sponsored spaces, including our community Slack, open-source projects, and other spaces that The Landing hosts, both online and off. Anyone who violates this code of conduct may be sanctioned or expelled from these spaces at the discretion of the The Landing admin team.

Some The Landing-sponsored spaces may have additional rules in place, which will be made clearly available to participants. Participants are responsible for knowing and abiding by these rules.
Definitions

Harassment Includes:

Offensive comments related to gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, mental illness, neuro(a)typicality, physical appearance, body size, race, or religion
Unwelcome comments regarding a person’s lifestyle choices and practices, including those related to food, health, parenting, drugs, and employment.
Deliberate misgendering or use of ‘dead’ or rejected names
Gratuitous or off-topic sexual images or behaviour in spaces where they’re not appropriate
Physical contact and simulated physical contact (eg, textual descriptions like “hug” or “backrub”) without consent or after a request to stop.
Threats of violence
Incitement of violence towards any individual, including encouraging a person to commit suicide or to engage in self-harm
Deliberate intimidation
Stalking or following
Harassing photography or recording, including logging online activity for harassment purposes
Sustained disruption of discussion
Unwelcome sexual attention
Pattern of inappropriate social contact, such as requesting/assuming inappropriate levels of intimacy with others
Continued one-on-one communication after requests to cease
Deliberate “outing” of any aspect of a person’s identity without their consent except as necessary to protect other The Landing community members or other vulnerable people from intentional abuse
Publication of non-harassing private communication without consent of all involved parties
General Rules

You are not permitted to use any personal data (including, but not limited to, name, email, or phone number) from a member of this community without their permission. Any wholesale data collection, such as collecting email addresses for a mailing list, is prohibited and will be reported.

Active community members are welcome (and encouraged) to share products and services they’re working on. However, The Landing is not an ad space, and should not be treated as such. Any posts perceived to be spam may be removed without notice at the discretion of the admin team. Users are encouraged to report spam-like behavior to the admin team.

Gemstone IV Staff are volunteers which work very hard to create an enjoyable gaming experience, and while we welcome healthy criticism, personal attacks against them have no place in a more healthy community, whether they are active posters or not. Please keep in mind that Gamemasters are not Simutronics the company, in a similar way to how a character is not the player.

Reporting

If you are being harassed by a member of the The Landing community, notice that someone else is being harassed, witness a member of the community breaking the rules, or have any other concerns, please contact one of the The Landing admins. If the person who is harassing you is an admin, they will recuse themselves from handling your incident. We will respond as promptly as we can.

This code of conduct applies to The Landing-sponsored spaces, but if you are being harassed by a member of the The Landing community outside our spaces, we still want to know about it. We will take all good-faith reports of harassment by The Landing community members seriously. This includes harassment outside our spaces and harassment that took place at any point in time. The abuse team reserves the right to exclude people from the The Landing community based on their past behavior, including behavior outside The Landing spaces and behavior towards people who are not in the The Landing community.

In order to protect volunteers from abuse and burnout, we reserve the right to reject any report we believe to have been made in bad faith. The The Landing admins are not here to explain power differentials or other basic social justice concepts to you. Reports intended to silence legitimate criticism may be deleted without response.

We will respect confidentiality requests for the purpose of protecting victims of abuse. At our discretion, we may publicly name a person about whom we’ve received harassment complaints, or privately warn third parties about them, if we believe that doing so will increase the safety of The Landing members or the general public.

Consequences

Participants asked to stop any harassing or unauthorized behavior are expected to comply immediately.

If a participant engages in harassing behavior, the The Landing admins may take any action they deem appropriate, up to and including expulsion from all The Landing spaces and identification of the participant as a harasser to other The Landing community members or the general public.

Sounds like it'll be awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y63B-5CWRU

Mogonis

08-07-2017, 11:16 PM

You were looking to start an argument, like usual. I chose to be an adult about it and give you the opportunity to express your emotions.
Wait, what? You private messaged me to start an argument. I was already done with it in the thread. In addition, an adult would've given a real reply, not your usual deflection response.

Fortybox

08-07-2017, 11:20 PM

Sounds like it'll be awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y63B-5CWRU

This video invades my safe space. Please refer to:

Physical contact and simulated physical contact (eg, textual descriptions like “hug” or “backrub”) without consent or after a request to stop.

Tenlaar

08-07-2017, 11:27 PM

I thought those forums were designed with the primary purpose of giving each other hugs and back rubs?

Fortybox

08-07-2017, 11:30 PM

I thought those forums were designed with the primary purpose of giving each other hugs and back rubs?

Better watch out because if you cross the line they will out you to the general public:

If a participant engages in harassing behavior, the The Landing admins may take any action they deem appropriate, up to and including expulsion from all The Landing spaces and identification of the participant as a harasser to other The Landing community members or the general public.

Tenlaar

08-07-2017, 11:35 PM

Or the general public? What are they going to do, take out newspaper ads?

Tgo01

08-07-2017, 11:37 PM

Better watch out because if you cross the line they will out you to the general public:

Jesus that place is such a joke already. But people seem to be moving over there already.

subzero

08-08-2017, 01:18 AM

You can't tell me what to do! You're not my real dad!

Thank god!

Tgo01

08-08-2017, 01:20 AM

Thank god!

:(

subzero

08-08-2017, 01:27 AM

subzero

08-08-2017, 01:29 AM

I thought those forums were designed with the primary purpose of giving each other hugs and back rubs?

Only if it's wanted. Virtual text-based rape is still rape!

Jesus that place is such a joke already. But people seem to be moving over there already.

Let's be honest. Which of them will be missed? I tried to look at the users, but I guess you've got to register for that or it's disabled. My effort stopped there.

Methais

08-08-2017, 02:09 AM

Well yeah. "Simu" being Whately and this mysterious other person above Wyrom that no one knows about.

http://www.qwizx.com/gameshows/dond/dond_thebanker.jpg

Methais

08-08-2017, 02:12 AM

It's an attempt to bring the PC down. Seems like Wyrom wants this as well. People have WAY too much time on their hands.

I blame time4fun.

*GENTLY CARESSES EVERYONE ON THE SAFE SPACE FORUMS WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT*

Fallen

08-08-2017, 08:41 AM

It looks like there are four key issues that are being brought up.

• Moving to SimuCoin purchases.
• More currencies.
• Silver drains.
• My comments earlier on.

I'm going to go through each of those individual.

SimuCoin vs. Box Office

There are a number of reasons for the shift. The biggest reason is this is where we're at now. This is the direction I am told to work. Enormous efforts were put into Box Office events and it pushed the limits for minimal gains. We were running ourselves ragged and not even hitting our targets.

The Box Office also had issues when it came to development. Having to communicate and verify purchases in game always had issues. Anyone who has run some of the quests know the struggle.

Lastly, we didn't have the participation because $30, $50, or $80 was too much for people. A lot of people just want to explore, interact and make smaller purchases. SimuCoins allow us to capture larger audiences. This also seems to be a worrisome point about merchant lines. This is something we can address more before the event, because we want everyone to get a fun experience at these. Not just the 20 people who wait it out in a merchant line.

More Scrip and Currencies

I hear the concerns loud and clear. Let's do a history lesson real quick.

When we ported the TICKET system over from DragonRealms, we had 2 currencies. We bumbled around with it though. We didn't know really what we were going to. It started off as tickets and scrip when we made the system in GemStone IV. Scrip was going to go into our first pay event that would feature it, called Grey Raven. Unfortunately, it was a quest using the old mindset and it never came to be. It burned out 3 GMs trying to bring that up to speed. So just plain "scrip" never happened.

During Troubled Waters, GM Vanah introduced blackscrip, and Ebon Gate started to embark on tickets. During all that, I wanted to do a play off blackscrip and make something called bloodscrip for this small event called Duskruin Arena. At the time, GM Scrimge was lead on it, and I was his support as SGM. We struggled with the idea of the event for months. It was brutal because I had the PM breathing down my back on getting it out. But I kept saying I couldn't come up with a solid plan. I took a lot of heat about the event. And then a few of us started brainstorming a new approach to events. We were getting exhausted from never hitting our goals, and it burned out dozens of GMs. That's when we really honed in on a way to work bloodscrip into the game.

We learned a lot from bloodscrip. It helps us control an event a bit better, it also helps us manage expectations. Yes, I realize because it's tied to SimuCoin purchases it's making silvers feel less valuable, but I'll also get into that in my next bullet point. I also know it's coming with pricing that makes a lot of items unreachable.

We don't plan to offer an abundance of new scrip types. We do need to use what we learned with bloodscrip though, which means starting fresh with Ebon Gate. The former (general) ticket will still have use though. We plan on using it in some ways at Ebon Gate this year. We also plan on using it at other events and venues not tied to just pay events.

The plan is to have tickets, scrip (not used currently), blackscrip, bloodscrip, ethereal scrip, and seashells for right now. We've thrown ideas about swapping scrip types at venues for varying exchange rates. Given everyone's concern, we can try to come up with a solid plan for that sooner than later.

Silver Drains

I mentioned it earlier, but events aren't silver drains. They haven't been in a long time. Large, every day systems are ways to drain silvers. And it's something we talk about from time to time. Do we need to address it more? Yes, but it is more of a touchy subject than you probably can imagine.

I went through some old Ebon Gate numbers that I could find. These are Prime numbers, but EG drained less than 100 billion silver in 2016. The Great Auction of 2016 drained just under 13 trillion silvers. Hopefully that puts things in perspective. We essentially drained more silvers from that auction than Ebon Gate has ever achieved in the 19 years its been running (not including the 2006/2009 auction which were billed as an additional event due to the higher price point). Events like RtCF and CCF also weren't hefty drains. Running those events, we had a lot of resistance to silver pricing because the event price to get in was higher than most our events.

I understand everyone wants more things to spend silvers on. There are a lot of wealthy players, but the majority of players aren't sitting on hundreds of millions. Many players also aren't willing to spend their entire wealth on a single service/item cache. Silvers aren't being pushed aside though. Events will still use silvers. Specifically, Ebon Gate will still have a large silver-based inventory.

Participation

I realize what I said earlier on isn't matching up to how I was applying it. Meaning, if you don't like an event or a direction an event is going, not to go. Context got lost. I realize some of you are saying, "I want to go, but not in this new direction." Well, as I said earlier, this is the direction we're moving. These are the tasks given to me to perform. I can't change that. I do, however, perform my duties. I am a problem solver and I get things done. One way or another. A lot of that drive is because I have a passion for this game. I grew up with it. It's also my livelihood now. I left my career path to do this full time.

The direction aside, assuming how Ebon Gate will run already isn't something you can do. We're trying something new. It's not a Duskruin reskin. I'm sure someone will disagree during the event, but we're doing things in a way that fit both areas where we need to be successful. Will it work? I believe so. I think this year's Ebon Gate is going to be one of our best. I foresee us finally getting more people to enjoy the event than ever before. Anyone saving their SimuCoin Rewards will also get to do it with just their active subscription. These are amazing new moves for us.

My comment was mostly touching on not worrying about it if it's not something you want to do. You can call that unprofessional if you want. It was meant to be a voice of reason. We have a lot of stuff for you to enjoy. Events are only a facet of what GemStone IV is. My comment wasn't a reflection of the game. We remove the events, we still have a great game to play.

It's up to you if you want to take this journey with us, but things are definitely changing. We have a lot of game development these days. We have a lot of fun activities not tied to SimuCoins going on all the time. You have a robust GameMaster roster constantly breathing life into this game. We have several hundred more players than we did in 2016. I hope to keep that momentum going. I hope you (the players) can continue to enjoy the game.

Wyrom, PM

Viekn

08-08-2017, 09:50 AM

I've only read up to page 3. I'll get to the rest later, but wanted to go ahead and post my thoughts...

1. I guess I don't see telling someone "if you don't like it, don't do it" as rude. I tell my clients, in a very truthful manner, if they don't like my fees, they should not use me. I will literally give them some other options that are cheaper than using me if they don't see the value in using me. But I say it in a very sincere manner because I believe it myself. I only want people to use my service and pay me the fee if they see the value in it.

2. I don't love spending more money than my monthly sub, which is why I typically don't buy simucoins, but I see everything that simucoins can buy as just extras that I don't really need to enjoy the game as it is. I'm not sure how EG will work out, but last year I spent $50, got only 2 GALD's, I didn't dig because that to me is beyond tedious, and I played a lot of games that I basically got nothing to show for in return. I was seriously mad last year because I felt I didn't get anywhere close to the value I had paid for. But you're telling me this year that I can pay a smaller fee and only participate in the things I like the most? I don't know, that sounds like a better idea to me. At least for what I value.

Taernath

08-08-2017, 12:13 PM

I've only read up to page 3. I'll get to the rest later, but wanted to go ahead and post my thoughts...

1. I guess I don't see telling someone "if you don't like it, don't do it" as rude. I tell my clients, in a very truthful manner, if they don't like my fees, they should not use me. I will literally give them some other options that are cheaper than using me if they don't see the value in using me. But I say it in a very sincere manner because I believe it myself. I only want people to use my service and pay me the fee if they see the value in it.

It's a conversation shut-down technique. You're not acknowledging that there might be something wrong and essentially telling someone to pound sand. Maybe you and Wyrom don't intend it that way (in your case I assume you have a flat fee that's known ahead of time), but it's just like saying, 'If you don't like the direction GS is heading in, quit' or 'if the wizard nerfs bothered you, reroll'. It adds nothing.

hello

08-08-2017, 12:13 PM

Wyrom hasn't even shown the pricing, drop rates, and even when exactly it's going to be. I'm willing to bet that most people are not going to be spending that much more. Just stay calm and wait.

hello

08-08-2017, 12:16 PM

It's a conversation shut-down technique. You're not acknowledging that there might be something wrong and essentially telling someone to pound sand. Maybe you and Wyrom don't intend it that way (in your case I assume you have a flat fee that's known ahead of time), but it's just like saying, 'If you don't like the direction GS is heading in, quit' or 'if the wizard nerfs bothered you, reroll'. It adds nothing.

So? You mad because you're not going to be able to use your infinite silvers pool to play the games. Fuck that. I hope they convert everything into SIMUCOINs.

p.s. please have SIMUCOIN sale at some point; maybe right before EG (seriously Wyrom, it could help with sales).

Methais

08-08-2017, 09:11 PM

So? You mad because you're not going to be able to use your infinite silvers pool to play the games. Fuck that. I hope they convert everything into SIMUCOINs.

p.s. please have SIMUCOIN sale at some point; maybe right before EG (seriously Wyrom, it could help with sales).

You should move exclusively to the safe space forums.

barbarous

08-09-2017, 10:28 AM

Questions bc I don't play or have any interest in other MUD games:

Do they have large festivals like EG?
How much item customization is there?
How much do they take player feedback on item design?
How much GM support is there for player-run events/groups?

(answers of "less/same/more" are cool if you don't want to write an essay bc I don't really want to read one)

One reason I support a change to EG is the change from it becoming a complete rat race to "get my money's worth," to instead be "pay for what I have time to do." I've already posted displeasure on the officials about the new shell currency along with audibly groaning at the 'con announcement loud and close enough for Wyrom to hear me, but I'm open to seeing the format change.

I've been looking around. Many of the larger muds have festivals, though not as frequent and not as extensive.

There is one mud that almost had me, but the item names are trash tier (random numbers display, what I'm assuming are database numbers?)

There are three muds that I found, pay your fee, get (mostly) what you want based on the code limitations in regards to alterations. Player averages are roughly 1/3rd of GS numbers (or less) from what I saw. To be completely honest, I'm not sure why plat players don't quit their subs together and go play another mud with an average daily pop around plats population at no or minimal cost.

Some of the lore is good, some is bad.

There is one I looked at that had multiple posts on reddit about the owner/admin logging into the player characters and dicking the players over, though I cannot be sure if that is sour grapes or not. The only consistent thing I found about that mud is the admin/owner is a douche. That was through googling, I quit reddit when chairman pow was elected. (out with the olds as it were) so I did not engage in conversation with people who had experience with the mud.

Some of the muds are full tard on options. I mean, who the fuck wants to play as a duck, yet sadly that mud had some sweet options and has been around forever (I guess it takes all kinds).

Some of the muds have fully customizable housing and player owned boats (which is sexy to me).

After spending a small amount of money on digging games, I am kind of getting to the point where if I pay, you give me what I want. Digging games are the exact opposite of that and to me are shit tier games to me at this point, but I don't buy lottery/powerball tickets either because I know I won't win (maths) and I sure won't get what I want.

If I want to plink money into something for temporary excitement, I'll just order coke and hookers over the internet. At least I'll be able to film it and make money off of ads (and be elected to a political office).

drauz

08-09-2017, 10:38 AM

If I want to plink money into something for temporary excitement, I'll just order coke and hookers over the internet. At least I'll be able to film it and make money off of ads (and be elected to a political office).

I'm gonna need that website link....for science...

https://media3.giphy.com/media/QUAYbjd1mXQ8o/200w.webp#0-grid3

Gizmo

08-09-2017, 10:39 AM

I'm gonna need that website link....for science...

https://media3.giphy.com/media/QUAYbjd1mXQ8o/200w.webp#0-grid3

Backpage.

Duh.

SonoftheNorth

08-09-2017, 10:59 AM

I mean, who the fuck wants to play as a duck

Kinda wanna be a duck.

0zymandius

08-09-2017, 11:12 AM

Kinda wanna be a duck.

Agreed. Need link to Duck MUD plz.

Taernath

08-09-2017, 11:15 AM

The ancient mallard quacks you for 25 quacks!
You are quacked!

Tgo01

08-09-2017, 11:24 AM

Seriously, this duck MUD needs to be linked now so we can all bask in the gloriousness of it.

SonoftheNorth

08-09-2017, 11:26 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odell_Lake_(video_game)

This game was the best.

Tgo01

08-09-2017, 11:31 AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odell_Lake_(video_game)

This game was the best.

Holy shit, I remember playing that game in like 3rd grade and thinking it was the shit. No wonder a 30 year old MUD still keeps me entertained.

SonoftheNorth

08-09-2017, 11:32 AM

Holy shit, I remember playing that game in like 3rd grade and thinking it was the shit. No wonder a 30 year old MUD still keeps me entertained.

It taught me to fear and respect large birds.

barbarous

08-09-2017, 12:11 PM

Holy shit, I remember playing that game in like 3rd grade and thinking it was the shit. No wonder a 30 year old MUD still keeps me entertained.

Here you go, donno if it's against the rules (who reads those).

https://www.bat.org/race/duck

bunnymustdie

08-09-2017, 12:40 PM

Questions bc I don't play or have any interest in other MUD games:

Do they have large festivals like EG?
How much item customization is there?
How much do they take player feedback on item design?
How much GM support is there for player-run events/groups?

(answers of "less/same/more" are cool if you don't want to write an essay bc I don't really want to read one)

One reason I support a change to EG is the change from it becoming a complete rat race to "get my money's worth," to instead be "pay for what I have time to do." I've already posted displeasure on the officials about the new shell currency along with audibly groaning at the 'con announcement loud and close enough for Wyrom to hear me, but I'm open to seeing the format change.

My experience with other MUDs are mostly with free ones. They don't really have festivals like EG, though many would have simple events during holidays. Could be just a special turkey monster you kill for rewards during thanksgiving or 3x exp during christmas.

Usually there's less item customization. Keep in mind a lot of other MUDs out there are more hack and slash games similar to WOW, where you kill stuff, get stronger equipment, and move on. There's less of an emphasis on special items that make your character unique. Where there is item customization, there isn't as much rules about it (materials, nouns, etc) like GS have. I had a container changed into a "foul smelling chamber pot" in a different MUD years ago and the GMs were cool with it.

For the most part other games out there do take player feedback on items and game play in general, probably the same as here on average. Players are a precious commodity MUDs fight with each others over, if players provide feedback most GMs will listen.

There's support for player events/groups. Usually less than here.

A lot of stuff I mentioned above can be boiled down to a matter of man power. Most MUDs out there are not run by a for-profit corporation with a big staff. They're working with a much smaller staff of completely unpaid volunteers, and they adapt accordingly.

Narthsin

08-09-2017, 07:21 PM

The PC and their relationship with Wyrom...

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/f9/f930d7049180f943b0eedc0e8893d6d477b2e443cee97da64a f7aa79ede67ae5.jpg

Malisai

08-11-2017, 03:00 PM

I dislike making EG MC based. Id prefer if there there was a 100% ticket i could buy. Then if folks didnt want the entire ticket, they could just use MC for that part.

I HATE the digging thing. I like digging. They should make two digger games. The first is silver based and just like digging we always known. Then make special MC shovels that you can buy that uses a second simucoin only hopper. Honestly, im looking at probably not buying anything for EG this year instead of spending the money for a ticket.

Gelston

08-11-2017, 03:01 PM

Viekn

08-11-2017, 03:09 PM

I HATE the digging thing. I like digging.

LOL, wut?

Gelston

08-11-2017, 03:11 PM

LOL, wut?

I took it to mean she hates that digging will cost simucoins instead of silvers because she likes to dig.

Malisai

08-11-2017, 08:53 PM

LOL, wut?

I like the digging game. I hate they are changing it to be a MC.

Fallen

08-16-2017, 02:12 AM

I think at some point something must have been severely misunderstood. There have been a lot of accusations thrown out in the thread based on the announcement at SimuCon for Ebon Gate.

One thing I want to say is, we're not milking anyone of anything. At the end of the day, most everyone is enjoying themselves at these events. People are having fun. People are going to these new venues more than ever before. And not everyone is paying a whole lot. There is always the case where someone wants it all. There is always the cases of buyer's remorse. Not everyone feels they got their money's worth. But participation is still quite high.

On top of that, last year we had an immense number of high end items and services available for silvers. We probably did more last year than we have in the last 7 years. Only event that I can think that came remotely close is EG 2009, followed by RtCF/CCF. And those were gated by pricier tickets. The things last year? All non-pay events. Sure, we had pay events as well, but I am strictly talking about everything else. GS also has a very lively secondary market. Everything is basically on sale for silvers in the player market. You don't have to spend a dime at Duskruin, because there are people selling slips and tokens for silver around the clock. I see it every single time.

We are able to do much more with the game. We've conquered huge projects. And we have a great roster of GameMasters who are constantly working on things they both enjoy and make the game prosper. We're also giving back in ways we've never been able to before. We have the SimuCoin Rewards that are monthly extras for all of our subscribers.

Yes, we have a more robust event schedule. We do not plan each event to have the same attendance though. Surprised as you might be, but we have thousands of subscribers. We also have hundreds of active F2P users. We try to make things appeal to all of our players. If events aren't your thing, we have a great base game with plenty to do.

Touching base one last time about Ebon Gate, we haven't really talked much about the event. We will have activities that take silvers. We will have activities that take SimuCoin entries. We will use a mix of currencies. There will be a lot of options available to people. We've been doing a real decent job of balancing this event that appeals to those that felt the $50 was too much for a ticket, as well as those that don't mind spending the former ticket price.

You're definitely free to your opinions. If you're not having fun with GemStone IV, there is nothing stopping you from finding a new source of entertainment. We'll be here though if you want to come back. We'll likely be a bit bigger though (we peaked 700 online the other night for a short while).

Wyrom, PM

Gelston

08-16-2017, 02:17 AM

You're definitely free to your opinions. If you're not having fun with GemStone IV, there is nothing stopping you from finding a new source of entertainment.

The fucking arrogance though.

beldannon5

08-16-2017, 02:21 AM

It does seem very arrogant. I have talked to him in person and he doesn't seem that way though. Tone maybe?

Gelston

08-16-2017, 02:22 AM

It does seem very arrogant. I have talked to him in person and he doesn't seem that way though. Tone maybe?

I don't think he realizes it. He probably isn't trying to be, but that is the type of shit PLAYERS say, not PMs.

Tenlaar

08-16-2017, 02:24 AM

It does seem very arrogant. I have talked to him in person and he doesn't seem that way though. Tone maybe?

More likely the awareness that his position at Simutronics wouldn't let him talk down to people without repercussions when they're standing in front of him. No mods there to pull people's words...or fists.

Tgo01

08-16-2017, 02:27 AM

We'll likely be a bit bigger though (we peaked 700 online the other night for a short while)

That's misleading. Everyone had their alts and F2P accounts logged in because everyone wanted to see who won the raffles. Like seriously within 5 minutes of the raffles being drawn 200 people had logged off.

Viekn

08-16-2017, 02:41 AM

You're definitely free to your opinions. If you're not having fun with GemStone IV, there is nothing stopping you from finding a new source of entertainment.

The fucking arrogance though.

Ok, so there are two ways to see his statement...

1. You don't like what we're doing? Fuck you, go play something else.

2. You don't like what we're doing? I appreciate that. We are trying hard though so if you don't like the direction we are heading, maybe there are other options that would be more fun for you.

Gelston, I don't know if you actually still play or not, but if you do and if you've played for awhile and had some experience with Wyrom in game or on these boards, do you honestly think it's more scenario 1 or 2? I've never even met him in game, but he's clarified a couple of things with me via PM on these boards regarding other issues and he's always come across as being more as scenario 2 vs. scenario 1 to me. If that's the case, I don't know why you always seem to gravitate toward being so skeptical of his tone or motivations.

Gelston

08-16-2017, 02:43 AM

Ok, so there are two ways to see his statement...

1. You don't like what we're doing? Fuck you, go play something else.

2. You don't like what we're doing? I appreciate that. We are trying hard though so if you don't like the direction we are heading, maybe there are other options that would be more fun for you.

Gelston, I don't know if you actually still play or not, but if you do and if you've played for awhile and had some experience with Wyrom in game or on these boards, do you honestly think it's more scenario 1 or 2? I've never even met him in game, but he's clarified a couple of things with me via PM on these boards regarding other issues and he's always come across as being more as scenario 2 vs. scenario 1 to me. If that's the case, I don't know why you always seem to gravitate toward being so skeptical of his tone or motivations.

I've played since AOL d00d. I've had a lot of experience with Simutronics. Perhaps I still have thoughts of Solomon, but this isn't the only time I've seen Wyrom coming off as arrogant. The line didn't even need to be said in the first place.

I took it as "You don't like it, leave. We don't need you. We're growing anyways."

Tgo01

08-16-2017, 02:47 AM

I took it as "You don't like it, leave. We don't need you. We're growing anyways."

That's certainly what it comes across as. Sort of like "Bitch you seen our numbers lately? We don't need you."

Taernath

08-16-2017, 02:50 AM

Wasn't he saying something earlier about Simu 'barely making ends meet' and using that to justify the price restructuring?

*/edit here it is:

I've said this before and I'll say it again, the all-inclusive event ticket was not helping us grow. We hardly made our targets when it came to those revenue streams.

Tenlaar

08-16-2017, 02:50 AM

It's easy to disregard the "if you don't like it, leave" sentiment when looked at as an individual occurrence. It's not. It's something that he says entirely too often to be brushed off as not knowing how it comes across.

drauz

08-16-2017, 02:52 AM

Pretty much any time he talks about micro-transactions he comes across kinda dickish.

Here is how I hear it:

"This is what we are doing, get on board or gtfo of the way. Cause we aren't going back. Whatley got a taste of this good money and there is no stopping it now."

Viekn

08-16-2017, 02:55 AM

I took it as "You don't like it, leave. We don't need you. We're growing anyways."

That's certainly what it comes across as. Sort of like "Bitch you seen our numbers lately? We don't need you."

Fair enough. I see it completely differently; as if he genuinely wants you to be happy and would rather you play something else if GS doesn't do it for you. Not sure if it's just the way I see the world, or maybe I haven't been around long enough to be as jaded. Wyrom definitely isn't sugar coating anything though, so I think he, along with the other GM's/Staff, deserve to hear from as many players as possible whether they agree with direction of the game or not.

Gelston

08-16-2017, 02:58 AM

Fair enough. I see it completely differently; as if he genuinely wants you to be happy and would rather you play something else if GS doesn't do it for you. Not sure if it's just the way I see the world, or maybe I haven't been around long enough to be as jaded. Wyrom definitely isn't sugar coating anything though, so I think he, along with the other GM's/Staff, deserve to hear from as many players as possible whether they agree with direction of the game or not.

Don't get me wrong, the GM staff of the last few years has been amazing as far as communication and not being super dicks. It still comes out sometimes though. I swear, the GMs used to act like they were babysitters and we are all unruly children in needing of scolding. Some still do, but not as often.

Jhynnifer

08-16-2017, 06:10 PM

Jhynnifer

08-16-2017, 06:17 PM

My only concern is if this is JUST 2017 or some kind of perpetual deal where if you keep hitting numbers you'll keep getting bonuses. This would be truly fucked up.

You don't honestly think that, once they've seen how much people are willing to pay at EG, this won't become the new norm?

hahaha.

Gelston

08-16-2017, 06:17 PM

You don't honestly think that, once they've seen how much people are willing to pay at EG, this won't become the new norm?

hahaha.

You shouldn't talk to it.

tyrant-201

08-16-2017, 06:17 PM

I was a little disappointed that I wouldn't have the extra vacation days this year to take EG off, but now that they're bastardizing the tradition I really don't care anymore. The 5 Duskruins a year on top of Dollhouse events isn't enough to suck every possible dollar out of it's playerbase, let's ruin the best yearly event too.

Hurray.

Not a fan of changing Ebon Gate either. I get the "give it a shot" mentality, but some things are better off left alone. It's a very clear and deliberate cash grab, it definitely runs the wrong way.

Kobold

08-16-2017, 06:19 PM

I was a little disappointed that I wouldn't have the extra vacation days this year to take EG off, but now that they're bastardizing the tradition I really don't care anymore. The 5 Duskruins a year on top of Dollhouse events isn't enough to suck every possible dollar out of it's playerbase, let's ruin the best yearly event too.

Hurray.

Exactomundo. This one fucking event one event needed to be kept sacred/old school/non-slot-machine-we're-going-to-flip-you-upside-down-and-shake-you-event. But whatever. Money talks.

Taernath

08-16-2017, 06:20 PM

Tgo01

08-16-2017, 06:23 PM

Not a fan of changing Ebon Gate either. I get the "give it a shot" mentality, but some things are better off left alone. It's a very clear and deliberate cash grab, it definitely runs the wrong way.

You'll pay more for less and you'll LIKE IT! There were almost 700 people logged in at once the other day, over half of which were alts/F2P accounts that were afk the whole night because they had to be in the Lands to win the raffle, Simu doesn't need you!

Kobold

08-16-2017, 06:27 PM

Simutronics responds vvvv

https://media.giphy.com/media/XpOnIoIDxsfTy/200.gif

Roblar

08-16-2017, 06:36 PM

2nd time you mentioned F2P in that count.

Yes, the count is exaggerated by the raffle drawing/needing to be in game.

No, F2P had nothing to do with it as they could not enter the raffles.

Kobold

08-16-2017, 06:39 PM

Roblar

08-16-2017, 06:45 PM

Well none of the CHE/MHO ones could so that would be a sad mistake I hope.

Gelston

08-16-2017, 06:45 PM

Well none of the CHE/MHO ones could so that would be a sad mistake I hope.

Kobold is hello/macgyver. He is full of shit.

Tgo01

08-16-2017, 06:50 PM

2nd time you mentioned F2P in that count.

Yes, the count is exaggerated by the raffle drawing/needing to be in game.

No, F2P had nothing to do with it as they could not enter the raffles.

Seems like such a minor thing to nitpick. My overall point was a lot of those people were logged on just because they had to be logged on to win the raffles, as evidenced by the logged on population dropping by almost 200 within minutes of the close of the raffle, presumably many more were also logged on just for the raffle but were in fact afk and thus didn't logoff right after the drawing had taken place.

I wasn't sure if F2P could participate in the raffle.

Roblar

08-16-2017, 07:03 PM

That is true as I mentioned in the second line. Just correcting an error.

Androidpk

08-16-2017, 07:09 PM

There is an easy solution to this, vote with your wallet.

BLZrizz

08-16-2017, 07:10 PM

, let's ruin the best yearly event too.

I attended last year. All I experienced were 100-person GALD lines and 1/200 raffle odds. What exactly made it "best" for you? I did not receive the value I paid for the ticket.

I know everyone has pitchforks out, but I glean from Wyrom's posts that his primary efforts appear to be aimed at reducing GM man-hour commitment while maximizing player value. If you buy into the assumption that minimizing mandatory GM time commitment leads to happier GMs, which leads to a better game overall, then you might be able to see the silver lining here and not just assume it's a straight cash grab.

Min/maxers who spent 22-hours/day digging will likely be the only ones affected; I suspect the average player will come out ahead on value per dollar spent over the old model. Those min/maxers will never leave and will always pay, so there's really no harm in reducing the value that they receive.

Kobold

08-16-2017, 07:11 PM

I attended last year. All I experienced were 100-person GALD lines and 1/200 raffle odds. What exactly made it "best" for you? I did not receive the value I paid for the ticket.

I know everyone has pitchforks out, but I glean from Wyrom's posts that his primary efforts appear to be aimed at reducing GM man-hour commitment while maximizing player value. If you buy into the assumption that minimizing mandatory GM time commitment leads to happier GMs, which leads to a better game overall, then you might be able to see the silver lining here and not just assume it's a straight cash grab.

Min/maxers who spent 22-hours/day digging will likely be the only ones affected; I suspect the average player will come out ahead on value per dollar spent over the old model. Those min/maxers will never leave and will always pay, so there's really no harm in reducing the value that they receive.

This... might be true. Good point. I'll retract and hold out until after the event to make judgement.

Kobold

08-16-2017, 07:12 PM

Kobold is hello/macgyver. He is full of shit.

Gelston is really bitter about being born a man... :(

Steve

08-16-2017, 07:17 PM

You know what would make Simutronics reconsider its policy of fucking everybody up the ass? Get about 300 people together, and have every one of them cancel all of their accounts at the same time. It's called a boycott. Something the modern age has lost due to how megacorporations structure their companies. But Simutronics is a tiny company, with a limited playerbase. You take away 300-500 accounts in a single day, make your demands, and you win the argument. Instantly. They will reverse their course. And in the words of Michael Scott, you don't have to wait out Dunder Mifflin. You just have to wait out Wyrom.

Kobold

08-16-2017, 07:20 PM

Steve

08-16-2017, 07:21 PM

I would argue that this would hurt employees more than the owners but in this case since all the employees are volunteers except Wyrom thevscales are more in balance.

But would suggest to do this after the event goes live and all the cards are laid bare.

It's been made pretty clear that Simutronics has very few paid employees. Most of the development is done by volunteers. And a boycott doesn't lose them any money because they would cave instantly with a chunk of the playerbase that size gone, and everyone can re-activate their accounts, potentially even on the same day. You saw a very small version of this happen when they removed the 6x HCP/HCW last Duskruin and caved instantly. You start taking away real money from them, and they'll cave even faster. Too many people look at Simutronics like it's in charge. The people who buy their product are in charge, and if the people who buy their product don't like it, they can cast a vote to change the marketing, but they have to do it together.

Edit: the one big potential downside is that almost certainly Wyrom would end up fired regardless of the outcome, but at this point he's kind of asking for it anyway.

Kobold

08-16-2017, 07:26 PM

It's been made pretty clear that Simutronics has very few paid employees. Most of the development is done by volunteers. And a boycott doesn't lose them any money because they would cave instantly with a chunk of the playerbase that size gone, and everyone can re-activate their accounts, potentially even on the same day.

Edit: the one big potential downside is that almost certainly Wyrom would end up fired regardless of the outcome, but at this point he's kind of asking for it anyway.

I partly agree with you. But the logisitics to pull something like that off would require a lot of coordination. I'm uncertain this motley crew is able to get something like that into the planning stage, probably something Wyrom and Simu have calculated for.

But yes the essence of what you're suggesting is sound.

I don't think Wyrom would get fired. Wyrom right now is 'feeling' for that threshold point when the balloon pops, I think one large pushback would reign in the current profit adventurism he and Simu are on.

However, the question is, does Wyrom have a point? Will the game get better for everyone if we go further and further down this path? I'm not sure either way.

beldannon5

08-16-2017, 07:39 PM

i think raffles and merchants will be much worse. A lot of the raffles were under 100 or close to it. I for see 250-400 or more if it's cheap but we will see. :) and yes the digging thing better be comparable to the normal pricing for eg or I will be sad and angry. but like everything else I will probably get over it or just not play

Winter

08-16-2017, 07:39 PM

Exactomundo. This one fucking event one event needed to be kept sacred

Stillfront on their website mentions that GSIV has a small loyal base, now if you know that your income and company's survival is based on keeping that small base happy then I wouldn't have touched Ebon's gate with a barge pole. When it comes to events it really is the game's only real sacred cow.

drauz

08-16-2017, 08:08 PM

I know everyone has pitchforks out, but I glean from Wyrom's posts that his primary efforts appear to be aimed at reducing GM man-hour commitment while maximizing player value. If you buy into the assumption that minimizing mandatory GM time commitment leads to happier GMs, which leads to a better game overall, then you might be able to see the silver lining here and not just assume it's a straight cash grab.

How does changing digging effect GM time?

If the price is low enough, tons more people will be in those raffles and waiting in the GALD lines. I predict the lines will be much worse.

Gelston

08-16-2017, 08:10 PM

How does changing digging effect GM time?

I don't think it does. It is a straight up cash grab, plan and simple. Digging is gambling. They are making gambling into purely real money.

Viekn

08-16-2017, 08:13 PM

I wouldn't have touched Ebon's gate with a barge pole. When it comes to events it really is the game's only real sacred cow.

What makes it a sacred cow? Is it the flat $50 then everything else just costs silvers? Is it the cool items for sale? Is it the GALD? Is it the digging? The more specific people are about exactly what makes it sacred allows for better development on Simu's side. I have no idea how it will turn out, but if in the end you spent $50 spread across multiple simucoin purchases and got more or less the same out of the event that you always did, would you (anyone for that matter) still be upset at the changes?

2nd question is if the future of the game was at stake because of profit margins, doesn't it make sense to make changes? While these changes are a completely different direction than anything Simu has done, in the end if it means the game is around for another 20+ years I think you have to consider that. Listen, if special events are THE thing you (again this is the metaphorical "you" and not specifically you Winter) enjoyed about Gemstone and it was specifically how they ran them previously, then yeah, you're getting shafted and the game isn't going to offer you what it used to. If just the game in general though (hunting, growing your character, hanging out with friends, etc.) is what you like, then nothing is changing in that regard and the event changes being made are only going to support the game portion itself lasting longer, and are thus good.

Viekn

08-16-2017, 08:18 PM

How does changing digging effect GM time?

I don't think it does. It is a straight up cash grab, plan and simple. Digging is gambling. They are making gambling into purely real money.

You know what I'm starting to think? That it's the possibility of endless digging for silvers only going away that is tweaking people the most. I'm seriously starting to think that a lot of people here have some gambling issues and the mere possibility of not being able to do it endlessly by gambling silvers only is hitting a nerve.

Gelston

08-16-2017, 08:19 PM

What makes it a sacred cow? Is it the flat $50 then everything else just costs silvers? Is it the cool items for sale? Is it the GALD? Is it the digging? The more specific people are about exactly what makes it sacred allows for better development on Simu's side. I have no idea how it will turn out, but if in the end you spent $50 spread across multiple simucoin purchases and got more or less the same out of the event that you always did, would you (anyone for that matter) still be upset at the changes?

2nd question is if the future of the game was at stake because of profit margins, doesn't it make sense to make changes? While these changes are a completely different direction than anything Simu has done, in the end if it means the game is around for another 20+ years I think you have to consider that. Listen, if special events are THE thing you (again this is the metaphorical "you" and not specifically you Winter) enjoyed about Gemstone and it was specifically how they ran them previously, then yeah, you're getting shafted and the game isn't going to offer you what it used to. If just the game in general though (hunting, growing your character, hanging out with friends, etc.) is what you like, then nothing is changing in that regard and the event changes being made are only going to support the game portion itself lasting longer, and are thus good.

I think because it is our longest yearly pay festival. It has been run a certain way for so long we don't like seeing it changed. Perhaps some people will be getting more value, but for people that played the games and all that, they won't be. Wyrom even said they won't get the same value for $50.

You know what I'm starting to think? That's it's the possibility of endless digging for silvers only going away that is tweaking people the most. I'm seriously starting to think that a lot of people here have some gambling issues and this is hitting a nerve.

Of course people have gambling issues. Just about EVERY game cashes in on it too. ESO, STO, SWTOR, etc have mystery boxes that you use RMT to acquire/open. Now GS is monetizing digging. I kinda consider it predatory.

Kobold

08-16-2017, 08:21 PM

What makes it a sacred cow? Is it the flat $50 then everything else just costs silvers? Is it the cool items for sale? Is it the GALD? Is it the digging? The more specific people are about exactly what makes it sacred allows for better development on Simu's side. I have no idea how it will turn out, but if in the end you spent $50 spread across multiple simucoin purchases and got more or less the same out of the event that you always did, would you (anyone for that matter) still be upset at the changes?

2nd question is if the future of the game was at stake because of profit margins, doesn't it make sense to make changes? While these changes are a completely different direction than anything Simu has done, in the end if it means the game is around for another 20+ years I think you have to consider that. Listen, if special events are THE thing you (again this is the metaphorical "you" and not specifically you Winter) enjoyed about Gemstone and it was specifically how they ran them previously, then yeah, you're getting shafted and the game isn't going to offer you what it used to. If just the game in general though (hunting, growing your character, hanging out with friends, etc.) is what you like, then nothing is changing in that regard and the event changes being made are only going to support the game portion itself lasting longer, and are thus good.

Let's not kid ourselves the game is in no way shape or form from getting deplugged. This isn't some 100 man operation requiring several servers to run, it's MUD played by a couple hundred people at a time. There is support and some deserved profiting, then there is all-out GREED What people are arguing is that this is the latter and not the former.

I still say we wait until the actual product is displayed before us before condemning it.

drauz

08-16-2017, 08:23 PM

What makes it a sacred cow? Is it the flat $50 then everything else just costs silvers? Is it the cool items for sale? Is it the GALD? Is it the digging? The more specific people are about exactly what makes it sacred allows for better development on Simu's side. I have no idea how it will turn out, but if in the end you spent $50 spread across multiple simucoin purchases and got more or less the same out of the event that you always did, would you (anyone for that matter) still be upset at the changes?

2nd question is if the future of the game was at stake because of profit margins, doesn't it make sense to make changes? While these changes are a completely different direction than anything Simu has done, in the end if it means the game is around for another 20+ years I think you have to consider that. Listen, if special events are THE thing you (again this is the metaphorical "you" and not specifically you Winter) enjoyed about Gemstone and it was specifically how they ran them previously, then yeah, you're getting shafted and the game isn't going to offer you what it used to. If just the game in general though (hunting, growing your character, hanging out with friends, etc.) is what you like, then nothing is changing in that regard and the event changes being made are only going to support the game portion itself lasting longer, and are thus good.

No other event had digging and it was the last pay event where once you paid your $50, there wasn't anything else to buy with RL $.

If my favorite restaurant started doing poorly I would still have a problem if they sold crack to make ends meet.

Kobold

08-16-2017, 08:28 PM

No other event had digging and it was the last pay event where once you paid your $50, there wasn't anything else to buy with RL $.

If my favorite restaurant started doing poorly I would still have a problem if they sold crack to make ends meet.

<chuckle> OK hold on back up.

To be fair to Simu and Wyrom, isn't gambling with silvers the same as gambling with RL money to hardcore gamblers...just the money is going to SIMU rather than silver sellers. Yeah.. gotcha there.

Taernath

08-16-2017, 08:32 PM

You know what I'm starting to think? That it's the possibility of endless digging for silvers only going away that is tweaking people the most. I'm seriously starting to think that a lot of people here have some gambling issues and the mere possibility of not being able to do it endlessly by gambling silvers only is hitting a nerve.

The digging-for-cash thing wasn't too bad when it was confined to a single event. Now that they've got a taste for the $$ they made at DR, other events will start looking more and more like DR.

Kobold

08-16-2017, 08:51 PM

The digging-for-cash thing wasn't too bad when it was confined to a single event. Now that they've got a taste for the $$ they made at DR, other events will start looking more and more like DR.

Then DON'T PLAY. Yeah, I sound like Wyrom but the dude has a point!

Mogonis

08-16-2017, 09:01 PM

Then DON'T PLAY. Yeah, I sound like Wyrom but the dude has a point!
Don't you have banks to rob?

subzero

08-16-2017, 09:17 PM

Don't you have banks to rob?

That was a good time.

Tgo01

08-16-2017, 10:36 PM

2nd question is if the future of the game was at stake because of profit margins, doesn't it make sense to make changes?

There is no way in hell the future of the game is anywhere close to being at stake. I'd be shocked if just the money they rake in from subscriptions isn't enough to keep GS going.

Sure, the future of other games Simu works on might be at stake, like their thriving mobile game business.

Kobold

08-16-2017, 11:31 PM

There is no way in hell the future of the game is anywhere close to being at stake. I'd be shocked if just the money they rake in from subscriptions isn't enough to keep GS going.

Sure, the future of other games Simu works on might be at stake, like their thriving mobile game business.

It costs them almost zero to run the game if it comes down to it. Anyone of our computers could host the game, heck Tillmen can host this game if you can get a copy of the source. This game is pure frosting on top of whatever revenue they get from their mobile division.

Mogonis

08-16-2017, 11:38 PM

It costs them almost zero to run the game if it comes down to it. Anyone of our computers could host the game, heck Tillmen can host this game if you can get a copy of the source. This game is pure frosting on top of whatever revenue they get from their mobile division.
It doesn't cost almost zero for the co-location hosting and ISP uptime, which likely also includes a service level agreement.

Steve

08-16-2017, 11:39 PM

It doesn't cost almost zero for the co-location hosting and ISP uptime, which likely also includes a service level agreement.

Based on the costs SWGEmu incurs with about 1500 concurrent players at any given time, it's not going to be a whole lot. SWGEmu is fully transparent, and including offsite backups, hosting and bandwidth usage, they come in between $1700 and $1900 every month, with three times the playerbase and similar, if not greater bandwidth usage.

Mogonis

08-16-2017, 11:44 PM

There's also salary for Chris and anyone else onsite.

Gelston

08-16-2017, 11:51 PM

There's also salary for Chris and anyone else onsite.

Because they like to style themselves as a corporation. I'm fairly confident GS could be run from some dudes house if need be. No need for offices.

Kobold

08-16-2017, 11:59 PM

Gemstone by itself makes well over $500,000 per year on subs alone, throw in events like Duskruin and EG etc. and you get the idea.

Allereli

08-17-2017, 12:48 AM

There's also salary for Chris and anyone else onsite.

let's not ever forget about the fire extinguishers

Tgo01

08-17-2017, 12:58 AM

let's not ever forget about the fire extinguishers

Hey fire extinguisher inspections don't grow on trees!

drauz

08-17-2017, 01:01 AM

let's not ever forget about the fire extinguishers

There's a water cooler, no need for extinguishers.

bunnymustdie

08-17-2017, 01:18 AM

let's not ever forget about the fire extinguishers

You can just rent those on a per day basis for when the inspectors come by (if ever). There are also cheap fake fire extinguishers you can buy as an alternative.

Tgo01

08-17-2017, 01:29 AM

let's not ever forget about the fire extinguishers

For those who might not know the reference: one time on the officials there was some uproar about how it seems no money goes back towards developing GS (after all the GMs are all basically volunteers) and Solomon tried to defend Simu's stance by saying they were a real business with a real office and it needed upkeep and he listed off a bunch of paid staff that Simu has (none of which work on GS, they work on other products such as Dragons of Elanthia and Simu's mobile game market) and another GM piped up with some common "expenses" a company with an office has. He listed things like a cleaning crew to clean the office, electricity, rent, then to really scrape the bottom of the barrel he said things like plants and fire extinguishers which also required paying a company to inspect them periodically.

Oh yeah, Solomon did mention one paid employee that works on GS, like the IT guy or something, but let's be honest, it's the same guy who works on all of their games and computer networks and shit, he's not employed to solely work on GS.

Mogonis

08-17-2017, 01:30 AM

Gemstone by itself makes well over $500,000 per year on subs alone, throw in events like Duskruin and EG etc. and you get the idea.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/173/576/Wat8.jpg?1315930535

Tgo01

08-17-2017, 01:32 AM

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/173/576/Wat8.jpg?1315930535

I suppose it's possible. That's only about 2800 basic accounts, figure some of those are premium and plat and shattered. Might be a bit high but I think it's in the ballpark.

Mogonis

08-17-2017, 01:33 AM

Let's suppose $500,000 is in the ballpark. He said well over that. It's a stretch.

Steve

08-17-2017, 01:47 AM

Let's suppose $500,000 is in the ballpark. He said well over that. It's a stretch.

Is it? As was said, that's 2800 basic accounts. How many people have just one basic account with one character? How many people are Premium? How many have ever purchased an event ticket? A simucoin?

Hell, assuming Dreaven has zero premium accounts and every account he has is just a single character, he pays $2340 per year ALONE.

Couple that with, again, as was said, the fact that any Simutronics staff is of course working on their other properties in addition to Gemstone, all of which ALSO bring in revenue, I'd say $500,000 is a lowball estimate on Gemstone alone.

drauz

08-17-2017, 01:52 AM

I seem to remember that something like half ( at least ) are premium.

Steve

08-17-2017, 01:53 AM

Here ya go. This isn't going to be 100% accurate, but it's going to be close based on my experience dealing with companies on it:

http://www.buzzfile.com/business/Simutronics-Corporation-301-330-0726

State of Inc:Maryland
Location Type:HQ
Revenue:$ 3,368,123
Employees:2
Facility Size:N/A

Tgo01

08-17-2017, 02:02 AM

Let's suppose $500,000 is in the ballpark. He said well over that. It's a stretch.

True, I wouldn't say well over 500,000 dollars, but it's probably around there. The usual peak is what, around 400? Figure 4 times as many active accounts for a good estimate and figure they're all basic and that's about 300k a year. So yeah, I'd put the figure more at around 350k-400k.

Hell, assuming Dreaven has zero premium accounts and every account he has is just a single character, he pays $2340 per year ALONE.

Shit, maybe it is time I quit GS :O

BLZrizz

08-17-2017, 02:05 AM

Tgo01

08-17-2017, 02:05 AM

Employees:2

Holy shit.

Tgo01

08-17-2017, 02:07 AM

No need to guess, it's easy enough to ballpark.

http://www.stillfront.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/SF-Q117-Report-Presentation-v1.0.pdf

Slide 13 lists Simu revenue at 4.1m Swedish Krona in Q1, which is roughly $508,000 over 3 months. Figure roughly $250k/quarter for GS4 equals $1 million in revenues/ year.

Yeah but we were trying to figure out how much comes just from monthly subscriptions. It's tough to know how much of that is subscriptions and how much comes from stuff such as paid events an SimuCoin store, although I would be surprised if paid events/SimuCoin store is half what they get from subscriptions, I think one time Solomon said they rely mostly on subscriptions but its been a while since Solomon was in charge so who knows how things are different now.

Taernath

08-17-2017, 02:07 AM

We have this discussion every few months. Simu is not losing money on GS. We (and DR) are probably the thing keeping them afloat. It's the mobile shit they've embraced the past few years that's sucking up their resources.

Tgo01

08-17-2017, 02:09 AM

It's the mobile shit they've embraced the past few years that's sucking up their resources.

Simu couldn't even get a quarter of a million in a Kickstarter to get Dragons of Elanthia off the ground. The noobs.

Taernath

08-17-2017, 02:13 AM

Simu couldn't even get a quarter of a million in a Kickstarter to get Dragons of Elanthia off the ground. The noobs.

*30 seconds of Whatley laughing maniacally*

Tgo01

08-17-2017, 02:16 AM

*30 seconds of Whatley laughing maniacally*

What was odd about Dragons of Elanthia is didn't they say the game was more or less finished, they just needed funding to advertise it or some shit and since they couldn't raise 250k in a Kickstarter they just scrapped the whole thing?

I wish I had "Let's develop this fully fleshed out game but fuck it let's not release it" money.

BLZrizz

08-17-2017, 02:23 AM

Yeah but we were trying to figure out how much comes just from monthly subscriptions. It's tough to know how much of that is subscriptions and how much comes from stuff such as paid events an SimuCoin store, although I would be surprised if paid events/SimuCoin store is half what they get from subscriptions, I think one time Solomon said they rely mostly on subscriptions but its been a while since Solomon was in charge so who knows how things are different now.

Ok. Check this: http://www.stillfront.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/SF-Year-End-16-Report-Presentation.pdf

Slide 14 lists GS IV with Daily Active user figure of 1,536 and Monthly Active User figure 3,064.

Let's assume conservatively that 1500 of those MAU's are premie, that's $60k/mo, + $22.5k/mo assuming vanilla basic for the other half = $82,500 on subs/mo.

Edit...that may be a bit high because I didn't account for F2Ps. Lets say of the 3000, subtract 10% for F2P. 2700, let's say 50% of the DAU figure is a closer estimate of premie users, so 750 premies and 1950 basics = $59,250/mo

$177,750 per quarter on subs, against $250k per quarter total revs, so $72,250/quarter on events is probably a more accurate estimate.

Tgo01

08-17-2017, 02:28 AM

Ok. Check this: http://www.stillfront.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/SF-Year-End-16-Report-Presentation.pdf

Slide 14 lists GS IV with Daily Active user figure of 1,536 and Monthly Active User figure 3,064.

Let's assume conservatively that 1500 of those MAU's are premie, that's $60k/mo, + $22.5k/mo assuming vanilla basic for the other half = $82,500 on subs/mo.

Man, 3000 active accounts, I was low balling it.

I also wonder why the GMs had all of this doom and gloom about DR being in trouble at Simucon because they were losing so many players yet according to that link DR only has about 100 fewer active accounts than GS and GS is still in pretty good shape.

But maybe DR's numbers have been on a downward trajectory for a while and GS has been stable or even growing. Wasn't it just a few years ago that DR was the golden child of Simu and GS was the red headed step child?

Steve

08-17-2017, 02:33 AM

Man, 3000 active accounts, I was low balling it.

I also wonder why the GMs had all of this doom and gloom about DR being in trouble at Simucon because they were losing so many players yet according to that link DR only has about 100 fewer active accounts than GS and GS is still in pretty good shape.

But maybe DR's numbers have been on a downward trajectory for a while and GS has been stable or even growing. Wasn't it just a few years ago that DR was the golden child of Simu and GS was the red headed step child?

Until 2015, DR was actually ahead of GS according to Mudstats. They didn't have in depth statistics like they can with other muds, but they were able to keep average player counts based on their 2 hour check in system.

Tgo01

08-17-2017, 02:34 AM

Steve

08-17-2017, 02:37 AM

Also interesting that Simu's EBITDA margin is 34% which must include paying all of their employees who work on other games and even fire extinguisher expenses. GS is a fucking cash cow.

But they're struggling and need to introduce microtransactions into every new and existing system on top of the most expensive subscription model of any game OR THEY'LL GO OUT OF BUSINESS!

subzero

08-17-2017, 02:37 AM

What was odd about Dragons of Elanthia is didn't they say the game was more or less finished, they just needed funding to advertise it or some shit and since they couldn't raise 250k in a Kickstarter they just scrapped the whole thing?

I wish I had "Let's develop this fully fleshed out game but fuck it let's not release it" money.

It was probably about ten years outdated when they were finished with it.

Taernath

08-17-2017, 02:40 AM

I also wonder why the GMs had all of this doom and gloom about DR being in trouble at Simucon because they were losing so many players yet according to that link DR only has about 100 fewer active accounts than GS and GS is still in pretty good shape.

What were they saying?

Fallen

08-17-2017, 02:46 AM

Also interesting that Simu's EBITDA margin is 34% which must include paying all of their employees who work on other games and even fire extinguisher expenses. GS is a fucking cash cow.

This has always been my problem with GS in general. It generates a lot of money, but seemingly little of it is returned to the game itself. It just goes on to fund other ventures.

Tgo01

08-17-2017, 02:46 AM

But they're struggling and need to introduce microtransactions into every new and existing system on top of the most expensive subscription model of any game OR THEY'LL GO OUT OF BUSINESS!

I better double my number of accounts right away!

It was probably about ten years outdated when they were finished with it.

But it was the first game to have dragon riding mechanics! Or something.

What were they saying?

Whereas the GS GMs (Well...Estilid...) were taking questions the DR GMs only discussed ways to get more new people (legit new players and not alts) to play DR because their current model wasn't working and DR won't survive at the rate they're going. The main chick specifically said DR isn't losing money or anything like that but stressed that something needed to change because they are losing existing players much faster than they are gaining new players.

Androidpk

08-17-2017, 02:54 AM

This has always been my problem with GS in general. It generates a lot of money, but seemingly little of it is returned to the game itself. It just goes on to fund other ventures.

http://68.media.tumblr.com/bc59be6a89af324ded9dc87973b06a2f/tumblr_o36kxrBRO81qg39ewo1_500.gif

Taernath

08-17-2017, 02:58 AM

This has always been my problem with GS in general. It generates a lot of money, but seemingly little of it is returned to the game itself. It just goes on to fund other ventures.

You'd think they'd feed their golden goose every once in a while.

Taernath

08-17-2017, 03:03 AM

Whereas the GS GMs (Well...Estilid...) were taking questions the DR GMs only discussed ways to get more new people (legit new players and not alts) to play DR because their current model wasn't working and DR won't survive at the rate they're going. The main chick specifically said DR isn't losing money or anything like that but stressed that something needed to change because they are losing existing players much faster than they are gaining new players.

It has got to suck going to Simucon and being told that.

Fallen

08-17-2017, 03:06 AM

You'd think they'd feed their golden goose every once in a while.

I guess Wyrom drawing a salary is an example of that.

Sounds like DR needs a Wyrom.

Kobold

08-17-2017, 09:56 AM

I guess Wyrom drawing a salary is an example of that.

Sounds like DR needs a Wyrom.

Wyrom can't fix DR. DragonRealms' problems are much more deeply ingrained and is systemic, aka one of the parts of the holy trinity in game design for RPGs is completely broken (combat, loot, leveling).. and it's definitely not combat or loot both of which is easily arguable as being superior to GS.

DR's experience system is broken, while it is expected for a Gemstoner with regular 2 hours of play a day to reasonably cap in 5 years (especially with the new EXP changes like Lumnis, long term exp gain), in DR you couldn't even hit the theoretical cap in 5. Even if you hit circle 150, the power curve just keeps growing and growing (a level 155 in DR would utterly destroy a level 150.. like the same diff between a level 0 and level 100 in GS). In GS you do get a power bump especially with semi classes but overall it's more horizontal progression (versatility) and less vertical I can kill 10 people just 5 levels below me.

Which brings me to the last tidbit. DR is toxic like you wouldn't believe. It's sole purpose in terms of mechanics is not to climb the critter ladder (like it is in GS) but to "PWN" people of lower skills or circles below you. Thus in GS you get this happy harmony between players with groups like 'Hand of the Arkati' appearing with the sole purpose of helping each other finish quests or REIM dungeons what have you, plus classes are designed with spells and skills to help other players. So, in that way it runs like a traditional mmo.

In DR killing creatures or the creatures themselves might as well not exist.There's no point to them apart from finding 4 to dance with and set a script to. It's all about the PvP (the only outlet in terms of actually "playing" the game) which usually ends up being toxic and pushing people away.

So, as a wrap up, I'll quote what a wise man once said, "Yeah, it's fucked."

Jhynnifer

08-17-2017, 10:07 AM

Simu couldn't even get a quarter of a million in a Kickstarter to get Dragons of Elanthia off the ground. The noobs.

Well that game wasn't very good, extremely awkward controls, Everquest-level graphics, etc.

Gelston

08-17-2017, 10:10 AM

Well that game wasn't very good, extremely awkward controls, Everquest-level graphics, etc.

I sorta get it working "okay" when I remapped it to an XBox controller. It was still pretty bad though.

Methais

08-17-2017, 10:35 AM

There is an easy solution to this, vote with your wallet.

As if those people have enough self control to not go to an event and piss away all their money for little to nothing.

Surely you jest, good sir.

beldannon5

08-17-2017, 10:54 AM

I am taking a class on self control because of these changes

Methais

08-17-2017, 12:45 PM

It doesn't cost almost zero for the co-location hosting and ISP uptime, which likely also includes a service level agreement.

Not to mention the cost of fire extinguisher inspections. At least that's what Solomon told us.

EDIT: Dammit

Kobold

08-17-2017, 12:52 PM

Not to mention the cost of fire extinguisher inspections. At least that's what Solomon told us.

EDIT: Dammit

Toilet paper in the bathrooms!

Methais

08-17-2017, 01:13 PM

What was odd about Dragons of Elanthia is didn't they say the game was more or less finished, they just needed funding to advertise it or some shit and since they couldn't raise 250k in a Kickstarter they just scrapped the whole thing?

I wish I had "Let's develop this fully fleshed out game but fuck it let's not release it" money.

They probably looked at it, realized they were in the year 2013 or whenever it was while their game looked like a first generation PS2 game and came to their senses and blew the kickstarter money on coke and strippers.

Tgo01

08-17-2017, 01:17 PM

They probably looked at it, realized they were in the year 2013 or whenever it was while their game looked like a first generation PS2 game and came to their senses and blew the kickstarter money on coke and strippers.

But it had real Dragon riding mechanics!

Methais

08-17-2017, 01:23 PM

But it had real Dragon riding mechanics!

How innovative of them and...oh wait!

Dragons of Elanthia: 2013
http://download.gamezone.com/uploads/image/data/1155618/DragonsofElanthia_ss17.jpg

Panzer Dragoon, Sega Saturn 1995:
https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/1512/243007-pd_1.jpg

Tgo01

08-17-2017, 01:25 PM

How innovative of them and...oh wait!

Dragons of Elanthia: 2013
http://download.gamezone.com/uploads/image/data/1155618/DragonsofElanthia_ss17.jpg

Panzer Dragoon, Sega Saturn 1995:
https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/1512/243007-pd_1.jpg

But you could upgrade both the dragon AND the rider! That shit alone explains the 18 year difference.

Methais

08-17-2017, 01:27 PM

But you could upgrade both the dragon AND the rider! That shit alone explains the 18 year difference.

https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/walkingdead/images/3/3f/Shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140829235648

Methais

08-17-2017, 01:28 PM

I changed my mind.

http://cdn.overclock.net/8/8a/8a8b6ea0_its-my-money-and-i-need-it-now.jpeg

poison_Owns

08-17-2017, 09:27 PM

Micro-transaction events have allowed us to have events like Frontier Days and the Premium Festival and all of the other amazing free stuff that happens in game. I'm so grateful.

Tgo01

08-17-2017, 09:29 PM

Micro-transaction events have allowed us to have events like Frontier Days and the Premium Festival and all of the other amazing free stuff that happens in game. I'm so grateful.

You.

Get out.

Taernath

08-17-2017, 09:54 PM

Micro-transaction events have allowed us to have events like Frontier Days and the Premium Festival and all of the other amazing free stuff that happens in game. I'm so grateful.

https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/wut-gif-20.gif

is he trolling?

Gelston

08-18-2017, 08:29 AM

Yeah, it costs GM so much to do events. Good thing SimuCoins exist to finance projects like Savants.

Methais

08-18-2017, 11:48 AM

Micro-transaction events have allowed us to have events like Frontier Days and the Premium Festival and all of the other amazing free stuff that happens in game. I'm so grateful.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/67149de0d5489c261e092a06d542515e/tumblr_mgblkb4kCV1rbfgffo1_400.gif