Hurling - best returner...

[nocturnix]

So if I can ever afford it, I would like to buy a returner for my mutant PURE hurling ranger. He currently uses a 4x bandolier, but I wanted something more beefy and blessable to compliment any gaps from my bandolier. Since handaxes have alot of limitations in terms of crit table (yah I wish i could get my hands on a spear bandolier, but good f-ing luck) and likely wont work well against heavier armor, I thought I could fill that gap with a returner. Also, perhaps I could use the returner as an opener, like taking out the legs or something like this.

Any ideas? I'd like to hear from those who have experience with hurling, as my knowledge is, admittedly, still limited.

[Archigeek]

I don't have much for problems with handaxes as returners. They do pretty well vs all armor types. They are the most available type of returner other than perhaps chakrams and discus, and those are only good vs lightly armored foes. Also, returners are far better than bandoliers. They're less hassle and can be improved and therefore have been. Good luck trying to improve a bandolier. The alternative is probably a hammer. Also good, but not quite as many of them around.

[nocturnix]

I don't have much for problems with handaxes as returners. They do pretty well vs all armor types. They are the most available type of returner other than perhaps chakrams and discus, and those are only good vs lightly armored foes. Also, returners are far better than bandoliers. They're less hassle and can be improved and therefore have been. Good luck trying to improve a bandolier. The alternative is probably a hammer. Also good, but not quite as many of them around.

Thanks Archigeek, A hammer sounds kind of cool. Would that be warhammer base? (ohb)?

[Archigeek]

Thanks Archigeek, A hammer sounds kind of cool. Would that be warhammer base? (ohb)?

Yes. They are cool, and there are a few really outstanding returning hammers out there.

[nocturnix]

Yes. They are cool, and there are a few really outstanding returning hammers out there.

What is an example of a really cool returning hammer?

And also, does the returner script affect player-enchantability?

[hello]

What is an example of a really cool returning hammer?

And also, does the returner script affect player-enchantability?

There's a god auction Chakram (Xena's circle throwy weapon) that hits everything in the room and returns to the user. I forgot what it's called exactly, possibly Ardwen would know more.

https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/hercxena/images/9/97/Chakram_in_return.jpg

[Ososis]

What is an example of a really cool returning hammer?

And also, does the returner script affect player-enchantability?

As I understand it from my talks with Roblar, (consume with salt) the SCRIPT spot does not block enchanting/blessing. These would include returner, splitter, knockout, a couple others, and nervestaffs (though nervestaffs sold at duskruin have an acuity flare in the FLARE spot, which WILL block enchanting/blessing.) I'll try to find a link.


EDIT
https://gswiki.play.net/Item_properties

So this doesn't seem to clarify about player enchant ability, but I do feel it implies that what i said is correct.

[nocturnix]

As I understand it from my talks with Roblar, (consume with salt) the SCRIPT spot does not block enchanting/blessing. These would include returner, splitter, knockout, a couple others, and nervestaffs (though nervestaffs sold at duskruin have an acuity flare in the FLARE spot, which WILL block enchanting/blessing.) I'll try to find a link.

Yes, that is what I thought.

I just want to know which perfect weapon base to keep handy in case one day I get lucky as hell and won "make a weapon a returner". Then I can always enchant it up later to improve it.

[Gizmo]

Returners script do not interfere with player enchanting along with a lot of other combat weapon and item scripts.

That's the nice thing about returners for enchanting purposes.

I pondered rolling a ranger to try camo with my chronomage daggers since they are the only returner that allows you to stay hidden in attempts at retaining that nice hidden bonus but never got around to it

[Menos]

My experience is fairly limited, but I am a fan of spears for throwing. Lots of puncture, relatively good DFs, very fast speed. They do have some downsides; the training threshold is higher (poles/thrown/brawl), they are in pretty darn limited supply and seem to be expensive.

Chain spears are fairly attainable but have the extra retract roundtime and can only be thrown in the one handed form.

Spear bando's are also out there, as you mentioned above.

I'm not sure on the total number of returning/stringed spears, but I get the feeling it is fairly small.

[nocturnix]

My experience is fairly limited, but I am a fan of spears for throwing. Lots of puncture, relatively good DFs, very fast speed. They do have some downsides; the training threshold is higher (poles/thrown/brawl), they are in pretty darn limited supply and seem to be expensive.

Chain spears are fairly attainable but have the extra retract roundtime and can only be thrown in the one handed form.

Spear bando's are also out there, as you mentioned above.

I'm not sure on the total number of returning/stringed spears, but I get the feeling it is fairly small.

Spears are my dream really for this character. His RP is a sort of tribal/witchdoctor type. He has a really great alteration set already with shrunken heads, bones, etc. Really really cool character and a spear would fit that perfectly. However, I kind of put the spear dream aside as I could never justify spending obscene amounts (500-1,000$) on a single weapon. I tried awhile ago to convince an owner of a spear bando to part with it, but I believe there are two still around and no one would ever give it up.

I remember now why i went bando in the first place: i can stay hidden with a bando. Chronomage daggers/scripts would be nice as well, but i'm not sure how good pure dagger hurling would be. I suppose hidden eye aimed shots would be your MO.

[Archigeek]

My experience is fairly limited, but I am a fan of spears for throwing. Lots of puncture, relatively good DFs, very fast speed. They do have some downsides; the training threshold is higher (poles/thrown/brawl), they are in pretty darn limited supply and seem to be expensive.

Chain spears are fairly attainable but have the extra retract roundtime and can only be thrown in the one handed form.

Spear bando's are also out there, as you mentioned above.

I'm not sure on the total number of returning/stringed spears, but I get the feeling it is fairly small.

There may have been one or two made, with a revised script. The reason they aren't normally allowed with the returner script is because this:


With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a black glaes throwing axe into flight.
You throw a black glaes throwing axe at a darkly inked fetish master!
AS: +685 vs DS: +491 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +94 = +318
... and hit for 117 points of damage!
Hard blow to the fetish master's ear!
Deep gash and a terrible headache!
The fetish master is stunned!

Your glaes throwing axe spins rapidly through the air, the blade whooshing audibly with each revolution. As it completes its arc, it reverses direction and lands solidly in your right hand, ready to throw again.

Roundtime: 4 sec

The whole thing makes zero sense for a spear. Now, in true Gemstone fashion, you can come up with a way and a logic no matter how contorted, to make anything make "sense." There was a GM who was going to add the script and said it would work with spears, but then took a look at it and changed their minds. I wouldn't be surprised if someone went ahead and did it and changed the wording some way, or just didn't realize what they were doing and went with it with the normal wording.

The chain spears are super cool but are not as mechanically effective as a regular returner.

As for enchanting, the only thing to be concerned about was always the risk. No matter how small the risk, the things are just worth too much to lose if there is some risk there. I have probably done about a dozen returner enchants with PPs, but I don't think I've ever had a mage do one. With the changes to mage enchanting maybe that's a safer bet, but I was never comfortable enough with it to risk something worth a small fortune.

[nocturnix]

There may have been one or two made, with a revised script. The reason they aren't normally allowed with the returner script is because this:



The whole thing makes zero sense for a spear. Now, in true Gemstone fashion, you can come up with a way and a logic no matter how contorted, to make anything make "sense." There was a GM who was going to add the script and said it would work with spears, but then took a look at it and changed their minds. I wouldn't be surprised if someone went ahead and did it and changed the wording some way, or just didn't realize what they were doing and went with it with the normal wording.

The chain spears are super cool but are not as mechanically effective as a regular returner.

As for enchanting, the only thing to be concerned about was always the risk. No matter how small the risk, the things are just worth too much to lose if there is some risk there. I have probably done about a dozen returner enchants with PPs, but I don't think I've ever had a mage do one. With the changes to mage enchanting maybe that's a safer bet, but I was never comfortable enough with it to risk something worth a small fortune.

Thats alot of returners, 2 at least. Did you buy them, or win them? How rare is it to win "make this weapon a returner" or whatever you want to call it.

[SonoftheNorth]

I recommend javelin bando

[Archigeek]

Thats alot of returners, 2 at least. Did you buy them, or win them? How rare is it to win "make this weapon a returner" or whatever you want to call it.

I've purchased most of the returners I've owned, and a couple of ethereal strings.

[Aluvius]

Your best bet for a blessable hurler is likely going to be a chainspear, at least so far as being able to actually acquire on any time soon.

They are equivalent to a bandolier in utility, plus they can be used in melee mode with neat flares. They seemed to flare at a greater than standard rate with my testing (the melee flares).

The main downside for use as a blessable weapon is that they stink vs things the spear won't stick in .. like non corporeal undead. You still have the retract rt, but they don't flare. :(

In general, I think the javelin/spear hurlers are the best if you're hunting crittable targets. I've used a chainspear and handaxe hurler/bando. The chainspear was consistently more deadly since you could aim at the eye with piercing only damage.

Against non crittable the handaxe versions have the best df/avd mix.

[Archigeek]

The way I see it, the most important thing about hurling is efficiency. A handaxe hurls in 3 seconds, 4 seconds if aimed. You also get a certain amount of melee DS bypass. This all means you can kill quickly with far fewer set-up moves required. All of that trumps basically any other factor, unless you've got something with really bad DF's. So the real answer to your question is that whatever kills the fastest is the best weapon for you.

Unless you want something just for the badass-ness of it, then go chain spear or chronomage dagger from hiding. Both of those are super cool in my opinion.

Edit: I also think that the chainspear was meant to be the answer to the aforementioned reasons why a spear returner didn't make sense. That and I and others specifically asked for it ala Mortal Combat's Scorpion: "fatality!"

[Stunseed]

While Kerl is quite on about the setup....

Man, what I wouldn't give to get the maul bando off of Wulfhen. Game breaking stuff right there.

[hello]

While Kerl is quite on about the setup....

Man, what I wouldn't give to get the maul bando off of Wulfhen. Game breaking stuff right there.

Shutup Stunseed you mad because Tsin will always be better than you.

[Stunseed]

Shutup Stunseed you mad because Tsin will always be better than you.

I'm mad because you have terrible grammar. I wouldn't put myself in Tsin's league because I have standards, and the man could flat out sell Astin Martins.

[hello]

I'm mad because you have terrible grammar. I wouldn't put myself in Tsin's league because I have standards, and the man could flat out sell Astin Martins.

Aston Martins, and they are highly overrated.

[Archigeek]

Aston Martins, and they are highly overrated.

Selling a highly overrated product, sounds perfect for Tsin.

[hello]

Selling a highly overrated product, sounds perfect for Tsin.

Tsin was a connoisseur and businessman and sold 10x the product at half the playing time, you're just jealous.

[Archigeek]

Tsin was a connoisseur and businessman and sold 10x the product at half the playing time, you're just jealous.

Hahaha! Now that's funny.