Usin mah fixskill, seeking advice...

[nocturnix]

So, after I came back to the game from a 2 year break (been back a few months now), I realized I need water lore. My wizard is primarily a support character and enchanter. I hunt with my main (a bard) and my wizard together and the combo is great, can definately reccommend the synergy.

Right now I have a ton of firelore, likely more than I need. And because I am enchanting quite a bit these days, I am considering my options.

I am weighing going FULL on water lore, for maximum mana pool gains on enchanting.

The issue is right now I hunt trolls with my bard mainly because fire wrecks them so hard. We will be looking for a new hunting area soon (currently at marsh keep in RR) so perhaps the switch to water lore will work well in conjunction with finding a new hunting area that hates water/ice. The other question is, do I want to go full water lore, or combine it with earth for some of the benefits or fire for some of the benefits from firelore.

Also, sanity check on my training for enchanting/hunting purposes would be nice too.

XXXX (at level 53), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 30 6
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 5 1
Physical Fitness...................| 153 53
Arcane Symbols.....................| 210 110
Magic Item Use.....................| 210 110
Spell Aiming.......................| 210 110
Harness Power......................| 153 53
Elemental Mana Control.............| 175 75
Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 155 55
Perception.........................| 90 20
Climbing...........................| 140 40
Swimming...........................| 10 2


Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 40


Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 33


Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 55
Training Points: 20 Phy 0 Mnt (1634 Phy converted to Mnt)


Planning also to re-jigger my spell ranks to shift a few ranks from wizard to minor elemental for better AS from elemental targeting. I'm definately keeping the overtraining in EMC, the 4x multicast and spellups are just too nice as a support character right now.

Thanks in advance on your thoughts.

[Maerit]

You should probably just split the lore from 55 fire to 25 fire and 20 water. Drop down from 2x AS to 1x AS (unless you're invoking a lot of scrolls?) and use those TPs for spell ranks and to get 1x in perception for maneuver defense. Not sure about the benefit of having 6 vs 4 trains in Armor Use. Might regain a few TPs there too.

[nocturnix]

OK current plan:

XXX (at level 53), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 4
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 1
Physical Fitness...................| 53
Arcane Symbols.....................| 53
Magic Item Use.....................| 110
Spell Aiming.......................| 110
Harness Power......................| 53
Elemental Mana Control.............| 75
Elemental Lore - Water..............| 35
Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 20
Perception.........................| 53
Climbing...........................| 40
Swimming...........................| 2


Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 40


Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 35 (or so)


Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 53
Training Points: 20 Phy 0 Mnt (1634 Phy converted to Mnt)

Is 1x in wizard circle OK for enchanting? From what I understand overtraining is not needed really. I'd just like to be able to do regular 7x enchants easily for now, not looking to do anything fancy.

[SonoftheNorth]

Don't forget water lore beefs up acid

[nocturnix]

Yah and never tried cone of elements...

[Tenser]

I don't have any fire lore at level 91 and my fire spells still work great. Your plan with 20 fire and 35 water lore looks great. Good enchanting skills with 2x MIU and 1x wizard spells. I am guessing 7x will be a breeze with that.

[mighty1u2]

The best use for fire lore (offensively) is unlocking steam bolt. Only need 20 fire lore for that. I would go with 20 fire lore and the rest in water lore until you get all the water lore you need/want.

[hello]

Quick easy 3 step plan to improve any Wizard.

1.) Check in to any Inn.
2.) Choose 86 on menu.
3.) Pick Sorcerer.

[n0551n3n0m1n3]

25 air lore(extra disk space + 505 bolt + -1 haste), then if you use steam(great vs robes, shit vs everything else) get 20 fire, then stack water upto the highest seed threshold you can. Acid is great for hunting, best imo except if you are in GoS and laying waste to troll camps. 1x wizard base is good for enchanting, I don't think overtraining helps.

[hello]

25 air lore(extra disk space + 505 bolt + -1 haste), then if you use steam(great vs robes, shit vs everything else) get 20 fire, then stack water upto the highest seed threshold you can. Acid is great for hunting, best imo except if you are in GoS and laying waste to troll camps. 1x wizard base is good for enchanting, I don't think overtraining helps.

GoS or CoL best for Wizard, that is the real question..

[nocturnix]

25 air lore(extra disk space + 505 bolt + -1 haste), then if you use steam(great vs robes, shit vs everything else) get 20 fire, then stack water upto the highest seed threshold you can. Acid is great for hunting, best imo except if you are in GoS and laying waste to troll camps. 1x wizard base is good for enchanting, I don't think overtraining helps.

Thanks, disk space would be nice indeed since i now carry all boxes on my wizard instead of my Bard. Right now I'm at 30 water, 20 fire. We may hunt non-trolls soon lets see, if so the water could come more into play in terms of hunting.

[nocturnix]

GoS or CoL best for Wizard, that is the real question..

My wizard is COL, and I love it. Wouldnt change for the world. However, i have a baby wizard I am leveling up now to help with my GOS ranger since he is not doing so hot solo at the moment (he is a really weird mutant build so needs a little extra help at lower levels).

[hello]

My wizard is COL, and I love it. Wouldnt change for the world. However, i have a baby wizard I am leveling up now to help with my GOS ranger since he is not doing so hot solo at the moment (he is a really weird mutant build so needs a little extra help at lower levels).

Hm, interesting. I too found GoS to cater best to mutant builds; plugs a lot of deficiencies in these wierd build types.

[Dintarl]

May not be what you're looking for, but I wanted to put it out there that bolting is entirely unnecessary. My wizard uses 502 as a primary spell, with 516 to keep mana up and 512 to keep swarms or dangerous maneuvery-stuff from being an issue. 502 fire is absolutely deadly against trolls and just about all undead. The others are still potent. You can attune to always use your element, or attune random to use a random element every time it casts.



Name: Lofe Race: Burghal Gnome Profession: Wizard (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 38 Expr: 2437549 Level: 48
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 97 (8) ... 97 (8)
Constitution (CON): 92 (31) ... 92 (31)
Dexterity (DEX): 82 (26) ... 82 (26)
Agility (AGI): 67 (18) ... 67 (18)
Discipline (DIS): 89 (14) ... 91 (15)
Aura (AUR): 82 (21) ... 82 (21)
Logic (LOG): 79 (24) ... 79 (24)
Intuition (INT): 79 (19) ... 79 (19)
Wisdom (WIS): 87 (18) ... 87 (18)
Influence (INF): 85 (12) ... 85 (12)




Lofe (at level 48), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Physical Fitness...................| 150 50 50
Arcane Symbols.....................| 150 50 50
Magic Item Use.....................| 150 50 50
Harness Power......................| 148 48 48
Elemental Mana Control.............| 150 50 50
Elemental Lore - Water.............| 150 50 50
Survival...........................| 150 50 50
Perception.........................| 150 50 50
Climbing...........................| 105 25 25
Swimming...........................| 105 25 25
First Aid..........................| 150 50 50

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 48 48

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 30 30

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 47 47
Training Points: 8 Phy 0 Mnt (1432 Phy converted to Mnt)

He fills his 10k mana every week without a problem, and is already doing 7x enchants.

[nocturnix]

Interesting, can you post a log of a hunt?

I like bolting, but still would be cool to see how you hunt and handle swarms. Cheers.

[Dintarl]

I don't tend to get swarmed much in kiramon these days, but I'd be glad to post what he does in there. I have him attuned random for the place, because fire does very little to electrobugs, but, interestingly enough, lightning does quite well. As do air/earth/ice.

I used 512 quite liberally when I was hunting in lesser/greater moor wights/baesruhkas/etc. First cast prevents maneuvers and lowers AS/DS. Didn't really need to drop the second to fully freeze all the things.

[nocturnix]

Cool show me a hunt, was just curious to see how coldsnap works too, never tried it.

[Whirlin]

Armor Use..........................| 30 6
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 5 1
Physical Fitness...................| 153 53
Arcane Symbols.....................| 210 110
Magic Item Use.....................| 210 110
Spell Aiming.......................| 210 110
Harness Power......................| 153 53
Elemental Mana Control.............| 175 75
Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 155 55
Perception.........................| 90 20
Climbing...........................| 140 40
Swimming...........................| 10 2

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 40
Minor Elemental....................| 33
Wizard.............................| 55


I'm not in the water camp. Most of the stuff it adds are mana. Yes, we can talk about extra DF on 904/whatnot... but honestly, +1 AS through dedicating the TP towards MnE will yield the same thing, plus extra accuracy, spell duration, DS etc. The spell unlocks at 20 ranks I can agree to. Steam bolt is good versus non-corporeal critters, since the damage tables on it relatively suck, and there's a super thin margin where it's more advantageous than the others.

The extra flaring cycles are neat, but usually don't result in decreasing number of hits to a mob by 1, so I consider them relatively cosmetic.

As far as training goes, the only thing I would say is to keep total lores to just 1x, extra TP should be dumped into a spell circle for AS from 513/425. Which, looks like you did.
If you want to enchant more, keep the wiz ranks, but you'll get more hunting ability out of more MjE/MnE.

Armor use... should be 8 for fulls I believe?
MOC: You can likely find a cheap +1 Ranks enhancive to save yourself the TP. That's a lot of TP to dedicate to a subset of spells' ball effects.
You can drop AS down to 1x if you want. MIU's double dipping with use/recharging/whatnot, I like the higher numbers as a wizard, but AS... if you have a pocket sorc to recharge scrolls, keep it, otherwise 1x will be fine. the 2x cost/benefit ends up being roughly even with a rank of MnE, and MjE even provides more DS by comparison.
EMC: same as AS, you can drop it down to 1x to save some points. There's not really enough that relies on it, and 2xing it is expensive.

Perception/climbing/swimming: You can get perception up to 1x level, climbing/swimming to (done at) 50 ranks, and never think of them again. Extra points can go into research if they exist.

As far as lores... depends on your hunting style, since you have a bard, your bard can utilize disablers cheaper/more easily than your wizard.
Air: I'm a fan of tonis bolt as an initial disabler to a single target due to the decent damage round, high likelihood of stun, and knockdown effects. But if you bard opens, saves you some mana, and lullaby is ridiculous.. Honestly, disk space is negligible, and there's incredibly limited benefits to haste until you hit 55 ranks of air lore.
Water: The major acid bolt is nice at 30 ranks... but water is fairly lackluster outside of that. Good for mana. I guess good for enchanting? But, training for enchanting is like training for trading, you're sacrificing your ability to hunt to make more money. Can always merchant/etc to make some money! Major acid will run you 6 mana per cast, and run lower DFs versus 906, but offer splash damage against multiple targets. It's nice, but 907 is also right there for a ball effect. 1710's DFs are slightly better against some armor classes, definitely more mana efficient, but you have the training opportunity cost to consider.
Fire: You get steam bolt at 20 ranks. High DF, low chance of crit kill. Perfect for non-corporeals. You also get stacking AS buffs from 513, weighting flares from 425. Overall, the most offensive heavy build.
Earth: Predominantly a warmage benefit. You don't need this.

[Orthin]

My 30 warmage is actually hunting ice trolls and skeletal ice trolls right now using just 502 and it's 166 CS versus 98-106 TD and it's 4-8 mana on average to kill either. Haven't tried other undead yet with 502 but plan and may scrap all my spell aim and use bow and CS only to hunt

[Dintarl]

Just emailed you a log with a kiramon hunt sample and some additional fire 502s in wights/baesruhkas, Nocturnix.

I get a lot of one-shot kills on undead with fire 502.

[Dintarl]

This reminded me that I need to make my mud-mage. Water/Earth, bolting. Double up on 512 in swarms, then channel an earth-based 518 for that shatter effect.

Shatter: If a target is encased in ice (i.e., failed Cold Snap warding twice) and the caster CHANNELs a bolt that causes a rank 5+ impact (505(?), 510, 1709) critical, there is a (Water Lore skill bonus / 3) chance that the injury location will shatter, completely destroying it and causing 50% of the target's max health in concussion damage.

[nocturnix]

I'm not in the water camp. Most of the stuff it adds are mana. Yes, we can talk about extra DF on 904/whatnot... but honestly, +1 AS through dedicating the TP towards MnE will yield the same thing, plus extra accuracy, spell duration, DS etc. The spell unlocks at 20 ranks I can agree to. Steam bolt is good versus non-corporeal critters, since the damage tables on it relatively suck, and there's a super thin margin where it's more advantageous than the others.

The extra flaring cycles are neat, but usually don't result in decreasing number of hits to a mob by 1, so I consider them relatively cosmetic.

As far as training goes, the only thing I would say is to keep total lores to just 1x, extra TP should be dumped into a spell circle for AS from 513/425. Which, looks like you did.
If you want to enchant more, keep the wiz ranks, but you'll get more hunting ability out of more MjE/MnE.

Armor use... should be 8 for fulls I believe?
MOC: You can likely find a cheap +1 Ranks enhancive to save yourself the TP. That's a lot of TP to dedicate to a subset of spells' ball effects.
You can drop AS down to 1x if you want. MIU's double dipping with use/recharging/whatnot, I like the higher numbers as a wizard, but AS... if you have a pocket sorc to recharge scrolls, keep it, otherwise 1x will be fine. the 2x cost/benefit ends up being roughly even with a rank of MnE, and MjE even provides more DS by comparison.
EMC: same as AS, you can drop it down to 1x to save some points. There's not really enough that relies on it, and 2xing it is expensive.

Perception/climbing/swimming: You can get perception up to 1x level, climbing/swimming to (done at) 50 ranks, and never think of them again. Extra points can go into research if they exist.

As far as lores... depends on your hunting style, since you have a bard, your bard can utilize disablers cheaper/more easily than your wizard.
Air: I'm a fan of tonis bolt as an initial disabler to a single target due to the decent damage round, high likelihood of stun, and knockdown effects. But if you bard opens, saves you some mana, and lullaby is ridiculous.. Honestly, disk space is negligible, and there's incredibly limited benefits to haste until you hit 55 ranks of air lore.
Water: The major acid bolt is nice at 30 ranks... but water is fairly lackluster outside of that. Good for mana. I guess good for enchanting? But, training for enchanting is like training for trading, you're sacrificing your ability to hunt to make more money. Can always merchant/etc to make some money! Major acid will run you 6 mana per cast, and run lower DFs versus 906, but offer splash damage against multiple targets. It's nice, but 907 is also right there for a ball effect. 1710's DFs are slightly better against some armor classes, definitely more mana efficient, but you have the training opportunity cost to consider.
Fire: You get steam bolt at 20 ranks. High DF, low chance of crit kill. Perfect for non-corporeals. You also get stacking AS buffs from 513, weighting flares from 425. Overall, the most offensive heavy build.
Earth: Predominantly a warmage benefit. You don't need this.

This is very helpful info thanks Whirlin.

I am not really enchanting for profit, more for fun. I like being able to take projects on and enchant them up myself when i find a cool project item that is enchantable. And doing that faster is worth sacrificing some hunting ability for me. Wizards are so powerful already, and duoing with a bard, we currently obliterate trolls with some fire lore. Having enough for a ball version of 906 is all that is needed at this point really.

Let's see how much this water lore helps with enchanting.