Pure weakness = head crits

[nocturnix]

Been dying to head crits ALOT lately. Its like creatures know i am wearing augmented chain and just go for my head constantly. Having nothing on my head feels like a huge weakness. But I guess there is nothing i can do about it. What do other pure bards do?

[Tgo01]

With augmented chain you still have the equivalent of like brig on your head or something.

My bard is pure and he's in augmented chain as well.

[hello]

Been dying to head crits ALOT lately. Its like creatures know i am wearing augmented chain and just go for my head constantly. Having nothing on my head feels like a huge weakness. But I guess there is nothing i can do about it. What do other pure bards do?

If you're a shorter race this will happen. Also, plenty of crit padded greathelms.. like they go for 25k a piece not that hard to fix.

[nocturnix]

But if i wear a greathelm then my spell hindrance goes up to hauberk, right?

@tg01 - maybe its my lack of crit padding on my aug chain then. I used to wear a 6x/hcp set and have since switched to 10x 0cp (waiting for my premium points to afford the HCP on it)....perhaps thats why i'm dying constantly now...(aug chain without hcp)

As for race I am a Dark Elf, is that a short race?

[Whirlin]

If you're a shorter race this will happen. Also, plenty of crit padded greathelms.. like they go for 25k a piece not that hard to fix.
A) Please provide 5 Critters that are too short to hit the head on an average height player.
B) Greathelm would swap the hindrance ASG
C) Beyond ability to hit, there's no known change on where you hit based on relative height.

Going back to OP:
A) What style pure are you? Runestaff or Shield?
B) What is head-critting you? AS/DS resolved attacks, CMANs?
C) What's your training/outside spells like? Are you running Luck?

[Tgo01]

But if i wear a greathelm then my spell hindrance goes up to hauberk, right?

@tg01 - maybe its my lack of crit padding on my aug chain then. I used to wear a 6x/hcp set and have since switched to 10x 0cp (waiting for my premium points to afford the HCP on it)....perhaps thats why i'm dying constantly now...(aug chain without hcp)

As for race I am a Dark Elf, is that a short race?

Dark Elf is medium height race, it's what my bard is too.

The loss of hcp might be the problem, but then again you did gain +20 DS so it depends on what kind of rolls are killing you and what kind of weapons.

Also yes, don't wear a helm :O

[nocturnix]

Going back to OP:
A) What style pure are you? Runestaff or Shield?
Runestaff (i know its slightly inferior to shield (i have read your guide sir), but I do it for RP reasons)
B) What is head-critting you? AS/DS resolved attacks, CMANs?
Mostly flesh golems double swing knocks me down and stuns me (it almost always happens when there are two in the room), then im stunned next shot is usually head critting me. Also cmans have killed me lately too. To be fair, I will admit I carry a crap-ton of boxes, i know thats a no-no for cmans etc. but....how else am i supposed to keep the loot form my hunt?
C) What's your training/outside spells like? Are you running Luck?
I currently am running 1003, 1007(i hunt with a wizard), 1010...should i also run mirrors and luck? feels like that would be really expensive for me now (180 mana)

My DS seems very low compared to my wizard. OK i know it will NEVER compare to a wizard's DS, but its like HALF. I think there is some environment pushdown, or perhaps its dropping a ton when i am full on boxes...its about 230 DS at the end of my hunt. Usually starts i think max at 320? My wizards is like 420+. Do we just have to kind of live with low DS? Was hoping my 10x armor would help with that. But it still feels very low.

[Tgo01]

At the very least add luck, helps with so many things.

Do you remember to use 1040 for when you're stunned?

Also your DS is probably low because it takes a lot of spell ranks to use a runestaff, I think 8 per level is the bare minimum people recommend with 10-12+ being ideal.

I'm just assuming you don't have many spell ranks because it's expensive as a bard to get to the 10-12+ range.

[hello]

Going back to OP:
A) What style pure are you? Runestaff or Shield?
Runestaff (i know its slightly inferior to shield (i have read your guide sir), but I do it for RP reasons)
B) What is head-critting you? AS/DS resolved attacks, CMANs?
Mostly flesh golems double swing knocks me down and stuns me (it almost always happens when there are two in the room), then im stunned next shot is usually head critting me. Also cmans have killed me lately too. To be fair, I will admit I carry a crap-ton of boxes, i know thats a no-no for cmans etc. but....how else am i supposed to keep the loot form my hunt?
C) What's your training/outside spells like? Are you running Luck?
I currently am running 1003, 1007(i hunt with a wizard), 1010...should i also run mirrors and luck? feels like that would be really expensive for me now (180 mana)

My DS seems very low compared to my wizard. OK i know it will NEVER compare to a wizard's DS, but its like HALF. I think there is some environment pushdown, or perhaps its dropping a ton when i am full on boxes...its about 230 DS at the end of my hunt. Usually starts i think max at 320? My wizards is like 420+. Do we just have to kind of live with low DS? Was hoping my 10x armor would help with that. But it still feels very low.

Are you wearing outside spells? Contrary to what a lot of knuckleheads here say, if you're wearing just your profession's spells (and depending upon profession) the game is actually quite difficult to hunt on level or slightly above your level (A couple levels above) especially early to mid levels. There's a reason why half the game's population ends up in Dreavenings... and it's not for Dreaven's iced tea.

[nocturnix]

I have my own + thurfels, strength, blurs, 101/107 and 103 while it lasts. So basically spirits + wizard spells in addition to my own. Should be enough. I mean i cause destruction and mayhem, offense is definately not an issue at all. It's defense that feels a bit weak. And its head crits killing me. Just wondering if it will get worse as i start more difficult areas.

[hello]

I have my own + thurfels, strength, blurs, 101/107 and 103 while it lasts. So basically spirits + wizard spells in addition to my own. Should be enough. I mean i cause destruction and mayhem, offense is definately not an issue at all. It's defense that feels a bit weak. And its head crits killing me. Just wondering if it will get worse as i start more difficult areas.

wow, yeah that should be enough. Not exactly sure what the problem is then. Try fighting in stance advance or forward? EBP at lower stances actually comes into play quite a bit.

[nocturnix]

EBP?

Why would i want to hunt in anything lower than guarded, wouldnt that mean lower DS?

[hello]

EBP?

Why would i want to hunt in anything lower than guarded, wouldnt that mean lower DS?

Higher = greater offense(aka stance advance, offensive etc.) in my lexicon. Lower = more defense (aka stance guarded, defensive)

If you're hunting in stance guarded consistently and still getting killed frequently with all those spells mentioned, I think bards need a looking into by the GMs (can't believe I'm saying this since they are monsters after 70ish and go full spell-bard).

[nocturnix]

I think its due to too many boxes + CMs/DS pushdown from encumberance thats getting me. I tend to hunt on the more risky side. And where I hunt I can end up completely full on boxes in all my epic deepend containers, so im like mega encumbered. But again, how do you pull loot home from a hunt?

[hello]

I think its due to too many boxes + CMs/DS pushdown from encumberance thats getting me. I tend to hunt on the more risky side. And where I hunt I can end up completely full on boxes in all my epic deepend containers, so im like mega encumbered. But again, how do you pull loot home from a hunt?

Hm, since I swing I'm rarely above somewhat encumbered. If you're at "perhaps you should lighten your load", you're asking for deaths.

[nocturnix]

Sure, so do most people return back to camp after they pick up one box? or two? I get 3-6 in one hunt, which encumbers me badly disk or not.

[Tgo01]

Sure, so do most people return back to camp after they pick up one box? or two? I get 3-6 in one hunt, which encumbers me badly disk or not.

I typically head back before I get too encumbered. With 509 running and a disk you should be able to carry a few boxes before becoming encumbered.

Also do you train in CM or perception? Do you have at least 1x in PF?

[Whirlin]

Higher = greater offense(aka stance advance, offensive etc.) in my lexicon. Lower = more defense (aka stance guarded, defensive)
If you're hunting in stance guarded consistently and still getting killed frequently with all those spells mentioned, I think bards need a looking into by the GMs (can't believe I'm saying this since they are monsters after 70ish and go full spell-bard).

Nobody uses that terminology, because the shield is measured top, highest as being 100% defensive on the front ends for the last forevers.



Going back to OP:
A) What style pure are you? Runestaff or Shield?
Runestaff (i know its slightly inferior to shield (i have read your guide sir), but I do it for RP reasons)
B) What is head-critting you? AS/DS resolved attacks, CMANs?
Mostly flesh golems double swing knocks me down and stuns me (it almost always happens when there are two in the room), then im stunned next shot is usually head critting me. Also cmans have killed me lately too. To be fair, I will admit I carry a crap-ton of boxes, i know thats a no-no for cmans etc. but....how else am i supposed to keep the loot form my hunt?
C) What's your training/outside spells like? Are you running Luck?
I currently am running 1003, 1007(i hunt with a wizard), 1010...should i also run mirrors and luck? feels like that would be really expensive for me now (180 mana)

My DS seems very low compared to my wizard. OK i know it will NEVER compare to a wizard's DS, but its like HALF. I think there is some environment pushdown, or perhaps its dropping a ton when i am full on boxes...its about 230 DS at the end of my hunt. Usually starts i think max at 320? My wizards is like 420+. Do we just have to kind of live with low DS? Was hoping my 10x armor would help with that. But it still feels very low.
Your DS IS crap by comparison... There's a reason I recommend shields! I took the path of lower defense, and now my defense is lower... Yes... that's you. You also seeing a DS pushdown with two critters when you're at a lower stance because of Multi-opponent combat pushing you down towards offensive from guarded. The reason wizards don't observe this as often is because they can just hang out in offensive and pick their noses.

Bards are very different than wizards. Encumbrance hurts at least 10x as much with a bard as with a wizard. If we ignore CMANs for a moment, you may still be 1x dodge, and you're still running 1019. Both of these are adding dodge, which gets reduced by encumbrance. So, more carrying, less dodging, less DS. Whereas a wizard's DS contribution from dodge is isolated to the +20 (subject to air lore) bonus on 911. You shouldn't be picking up ANY boxes on a bard if a wizard is there with capacity... .... ... After you've filled BOTH disks. Don't forget about disks. You can also use sonic armor for some free encumbrance due to how lightening works on armor... but if you're alternatives are HCP or 10x, sounds like physical is the way to go.

Alright, provide your full training, lets have a full look at you!

[Ososis]

You should really disregard everything Hello says about game mechanics. Even when he is correct it is purely by accident.

[nocturnix]

Strength (STR): 70
Constitution (CON): 50
Dexterity (DEX): 50
Agility (AGI): 78
Discipline (DIS): 59
Aura (AUR): 89
Logic (LOG): 81
Intuition (INT): 45
Wisdom (WIS): 50
Influence (INF): 88



Name: xxx Race: Dark Elf Profession: Bard (shown as: Spellsinger)
Gender: Male Age: 0 Expr: 3118201 Level: 56
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 90 (20) ... 90 (20)
Constitution (CON): 70 (5) ... 72 (6)
Dexterity (DEX): 83 (26) ... 83 (26)
Agility (AGI): 96 (28) ... 96 (28)
Discipline (DIS): 72 (1) ... 72 (1)
Aura (AUR): 100 (35) ... 127 (48)
Logic (LOG): 88 (19) ... 88 (19)
Intuition (INT): 63 (11) ... 63 (11)
Wisdom (WIS): 72 (16) ... 72 (16)
Influence (INF): 100 (20) ... 109 (24)

xxx (at level 56), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 15 3
Armor Use..........................| 165 65
Blunt Weapons......................| 10 2
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 5 1
Physical Fitness...................| 156 56
Dodging............................| 96 22
Arcane Symbols.....................| 15 3
Magic Item Use.....................| 132 36
Harness Power......................| 156 56
Elemental Mana Control.............| 86 19
Mental Mana Control................| 158 58
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 4 0
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 10 2
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 159 59
Perception.........................| 66 14
Climbing...........................| 140 40
Swimming...........................| 50 10


Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 31


Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 64
Training Points: 39 Phy 0 Mnt (1718 Phy converted to Mnt)
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

Dont rip me too hard, i know i need work. I have fixskill, not affraid to use it. I'd like to keep runestaff, is the DS loss that bad from going runestaff instead of shield? Really like my nervestaff.

I know for example i need to bring up my MNE ranks to 2/3rd etc. What else?

[nocturnix]

Weird stuff is my enhancives by the way, currently dead as a doornail so cant take em off atm. :D

[hello]

Play monks then come back to playing Bards. You'll feel like you've been buffed.

[Tgo01]

I'd like to keep runestaff, is the DS loss that bad from going runestaff instead of shield? Really like my nervestaff.

You could always do shield + runestaff, of course your DS takes a hit from using a shield with a runestaff but with enough shield training you actually end up with more DS.

Might as well keep PF at max, it's the best defense against CM. I mean you're practically fully trained, but you can squeeze in 2 more ranks!

Also CMAN training would go a long way towards protecting against CMANs, as would perception.

I'll just assume the TWC, sorc lore and spirit lore comes from enhancives :p

[nocturnix]

You could always do shield + runestaff, of course your DS takes a hit from using a shield with a runestaff but with enough shield training you actually end up with more DS.

Might as well keep PF at max, it's the best defense against CM. I mean you're practically fully trained, but you can squeeze in 2 more ranks!

Also CMAN training would go a long way towards protecting against CMANs, as would perception.

I'll just assume the TWC, sorc lore and spirit lore comes from enhancives :p

So nothing glaringly wrong here with training? I think whirlin's advice was the key thing, encumberance = death for bard pures more so than my wizard. So time to shift box carrying to wizard.

Yes, as mentioned above - weird stuff is from my enhancives due to the fact that i'm dead in RR right now and cant take them off.

[hello]

So nothing glaringly wrong here with training? I think whirlin's advice was the key thing, encumberance = death for bard pures more so than my wizard. So time to shift box carrying to wizard.

Yes, as mentioned above - weird stuff is from my enhancives due to the fact that i'm dead in RR right now and cant take them off.

Oh snap... you hunt RR? Wow, going HARDCORE there eh?

[Tgo01]

So nothing glaringly wrong here with training?

Well if you're dying to maneuvers I would really consider getting some CM training and perception. If DS is low could also try more dodge ranks.

But you should start with never hunting encumbered and see if that solves the problem first.

[Maerit]

If you want to use a runestaff, I'd be 1x in MIU/AS/HP/MMC/ and a lore of your choice. The reason why RS defense is always higher for pures vs semis is because they also train in additional spell ranks and sometimes double up on magical skill training (like 2x MIU for wizards or EMC+SMC for sorcerers), which is not possible for you to accomplish.

However, you can definitely get more DS with runestaves if you focus on at least 1x in the above mentioned categories. I'm guessing all the other things that are a couple of ranks are from random enhancives, and not TPs. With your training, I'm not sure if you qualify for the full runestaff DS bonus.

Are your dodge ranks from training or from spells?

[nocturnix]

Dodge ranks are from training.

I could try to increase magical skills, at what point do i hit diminishing returns, i guess not before 1x? I need the EMC to better hunt with my wizard and swap mana back and forth with him. I could bring MIU up to 1x, but getting AS might mean i need to drop another skill. I guess i need to hit tsoran's skill sheet.

[kcostell]

You can ring out from the Marsh Keep back to RR (the secret room in the study). If you're getting encumbered, just make a quick trip back to town to unload a bit, then go back hunting.

[hello]

My monk needs a buff, Finros buff my monk.

[nocturnix]

My monk needs a buff, Finros buff my monk.

I dont want to jump on the whole "rip on hello" bandwagon, but why are you talking about monks? Thats some really crazy ADD topic deviation man.

Anyways, i will try carrying boxes on my wizard from now on and see what my DS maneuverability is unencumbered, i sort of treated my Bard like my sorc/wiz in terms of not really caring about encumberance.

[Whirlin]

Strength (STR): 70
Constitution (CON): 50
Dexterity (DEX): 50
Agility (AGI): 78
Discipline (DIS): 59
Aura (AUR): 89
Logic (LOG): 81
Intuition (INT): 45
Wisdom (WIS): 50
Influence (INF): 88



Name: xxx Race: Dark Elf Profession: Bard (shown as: Spellsinger)
Gender: Male Age: 0 Expr: 3118201 Level: 56
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 90 (20) ... 90 (20)
Constitution (CON): 70 (5) ... 72 (6)
Dexterity (DEX): 83 (26) ... 83 (26)
Agility (AGI): 96 (28) ... 96 (28)
Discipline (DIS): 72 (1) ... 72 (1)
Aura (AUR): 100 (35) ... 127 (48)
Logic (LOG): 88 (19) ... 88 (19)
Intuition (INT): 63 (11) ... 63 (11)
Wisdom (WIS): 72 (16) ... 72 (16)
Influence (INF): 100 (20) ... 109 (24)

xxx (at level 56), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 15 3
Armor Use..........................| 165 65
Blunt Weapons......................| 10 2
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 5 1
Physical Fitness...................| 156 56
Dodging............................| 96 22
Arcane Symbols.....................| 15 3
Magic Item Use.....................| 132 36
Harness Power......................| 156 56
Elemental Mana Control.............| 86 19
Mental Mana Control................| 158 58
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 4 0
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 10 2
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 159 59
Perception.........................| 66 14
Climbing...........................| 140 40
Swimming...........................| 50 10


Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 31


Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 64
Training Points: 39 Phy 0 Mnt (1718 Phy converted to Mnt)
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

Dont rip me too hard, i know i need work. I have fixskill, not affraid to use it. I'd like to keep runestaff, is the DS loss that bad from going runestaff instead of shield? Really like my nervestaff.

I know for example i need to bring up my MNE ranks to 2/3rd etc. What else?
can you confirm that it's without enhancements? A few odd numbers in there.

[Fortybox]

Just pointing out my monk is around your level and doing just fine!

[Ceph]

C) What's your training/outside spells like? Are you running Luck?
I currently am running 1003, 1007(i hunt with a wizard), 1010...should i also run mirrors and luck? feels like that would be really expensive for me now (180 mana)
.

my bard is 54 currently, running 1003, 6, 7, 10, and 19 - but i stab things for a living. thats 32 mana a cycle (stopping and restarting 1003 via Tgo's songmanager) and with all that up, and keeping up a handful of sunfist sigils, i'm still net positive mana on a normal hunt.

guess i'll finish reading the thread now and see what other useful info is in here.

[adred]

https://gswiki.play.net/Defensive_strength

try training in those skills if your DS is too low

[Whirlin]

Just need confirmation on skills less enhancives, and can provide some better guidance and do some comparisons