Na someone give me a rundown on 520?

[milesalpha]

I have been testing this spell with a variety of armors and it shows absolutely no indication that it combines with other padding. Am I doing something wrong or is this just another simu masterpiece? My latest test was with 10x hcp robes and 98 trains in elemental control, and I took more critical bleeders in 2 hours than I had the previous week in robes without hcp.

Anyone have any suggestions?

[Whirlin]

I need logs of the hits that you sustained that resulted in bleeders to prove one way or another how padding is functioning.

Regardless, Critical padding from any/all sources is due to padding randomization, which can be anywhere between 5-currentpaddinglevel. So even if you have 60602502394r502342367489236496 points of padding, you can lose the RNG lottery and still end up with only 5 points of effective padding.

Additionally, 520 can be run in a magnitude of 'stances'. Anyone can utilize each stance, however if you have 0 lore ranks, it'll cost 99 to set your 520 to that element.

Water = Dispel protection every X seconds
Fire = Use CHANNEL on bolt spells from more defensive stances without AS penalty
Air = Encumbrance Reduction
Earth = More Padding when stunned
Lightning = Chance when stunned to stun the room

[milesalpha]

So it's just essentially a crapshoot, shoulda known. Ah well.

And forgot to say thanks, thanks.

[Viekn]

So for a wizard looking to minimize crit kills, is it essentially better to look at higher enchant armor first before incorporating any crit padding because of the crit randomization? Not that DS is an issue, but I'm staring to feel like a higher DS might do more to mitigate crits than actual padding.

Edit: Especially because we now have 520 that at least gives us some built in crit padding. I invested a moderate amount in some 3x swcp robes for 520 to stack padding on, but I'm wondering if I'd be better off with 6x/7x robes/fulls with no crit padding and just take the light/somewhat padding that 520 naturally gives me.

[milesalpha]

Well all I can tell you is I was using my 10x robes with 520 and was doing great. The second I had those robes padded to HCP everything has gone to shit. I receive severe crits every day now from the exact same creatures that couldn't scratch me before. I would much rather have the premium points back and dump the padding. I can't say it's worthless, but I can say it's worse than worthless. Whatever they say I see no evidence that the two combine as they claim.

Just as an example, went hunting this morning and the first creature I met, a lesser minotaur charged me and gave me a glancing blow with 1 point of damage, and a severe crit to my head. End of that run. Second run the same damn thing was done by the second creature I met. I'll give it another week for full testing but it's beginning to look like I will want this shit off my robes.

[Orthin]

If you have run the numbers and it is true and the purpose of the spell IS for it to stack then 100% submit a ticket.

Also some things about 520. If memory serves from my reading 20 lore in the given element it should offset that element not being your attuned element. Also I feel like while reading on the wiki it's 99 mana for the first cast only

[milesalpha]

Lores are irrelevant to me. The RNG is the problem and it is really one of the stupidest things I have every heard RNG used for. Researching back it was added in 2008 by some halfwit GM. The up shot is it made weaker paddings a little better, screwed the midrange levels completely, and made a tiny decrease to the super armors. I have a lot of experience with rng in other games. World of Tanks as an example. The RNG is applied to shooting because there is many factors that can randomize a shot, it is not applied to armor, because armor is static, it's thickness doesn't vary, there is nothing to randomize about it. I would regard padding to be the same thing. His reasoning sounded like gibberish to me. In essence though my 20 pt padding is worth as little as 5 at the whim of a dice roll. I would never have padded had I known this.

[milesalpha]

I think I have gotten the problem figured out, but I need confirmation from a gm. I'll pass it on as soon as I get it.

[milesalpha]

Whirlin' can I ask a question? (then he goas ahead and asks it anyway). I am wondering if 520 is RNG dependant. Being a recent spell and all, and not physical padding, its there a chance it escaped it. It is not mentioned on the wiki page. Whadyya think?

Waiting on a GM referral looking into it as well

[Dazmar]

Very curious to the outcome of this. Thanks for sharing.

[milesalpha]

Yep I am currently number 1 in premium referral so it should be soon.

[Gelston]

Yep I am currently number 1 in premium referral so it should be soon.

lol

[milesalpha]

I can't argue with that. Will have to take a brief break soon, but I'll be back and on til late.

[Gelston]

I can't argue with that. Will have to take a brief break soon, but I'll be back and on til late.

Yours is likely to be something only a specific GM can answer.

[milesalpha]

Yep figured it has to be a toughie. But I like sitting around so and I'm retired, so nothing but time on my hands. Off my break and back at number 1.

[milesalpha]

Update: Nothing to update. Still in the lineup. I think Gelston is exactly correct so I don't know how long this answer will take, but I'm going to get it one way or the other (naturally I haven't any idea what one what or the other means in this situation, but it sounded bold.)

[Viekn]

Update: Nothing to update. Still in the lineup. I think Gelston is exactly correct so I don't know how long this answer will take, but I'm going to get it one way or the other (naturally I haven't any idea what one what or the other means in this situation, but it sounded bold.)

I'm wondering what's the fastest option for your question: waiting for your assist, asking the question on the officials, or asking on the officials who the specific GM is in charge of your question subject and e-mailing their play.net address.

[Whirlin]

Whirlin' can I ask a question? (then he goas ahead and asks it anyway). I am wondering if 520 is RNG dependant. Being a recent spell and all, and not physical padding, its there a chance it escaped it. It is not mentioned on the wiki page. Whadyya think?

Waiting on a GM referral looking into it as well

I, I had them look into 520 in the last two months, with logs provided. All padding sources have the ability to he randomizes down to +5 padding, regardless of source. So if your hcp + 520 yields +20 crib padding, there's still a chance of of only getting +5 padding.

Furthmore, you're wearing robes, crit divisor 5, basically like wearing nothing at all. It's garbage.


Sorry for the delay, I've been in the hospital. Assume that was the reason for any spelling errors.

[Viekn]

Furthmore, you're wearing robes, crit divisor 5, basically like wearing nothing at all. It's garbage.

I'm confused. Is this more or less a blanket opinion on the effectiveness of robes for wizards? Leathers have a crit divisor of 6. Does that work out to be significantly better in the crit calculations than 5? Wasn't sure if I was reading too much in to that statement or not.

[milesalpha]

Thank you, well there we go folks, I trust we all accept Whirlin's post so I'm going to let my probably never gonna happen referral go. I rather like my garbage (it's all about the look, a 1500 year old would just look silly in armor, I figure I have a body that should be kept hidden)so I'll be sticking with them after their testing in the bowels had such lovely results.

[Fallen]

Thank you, well there we go folks, I trust we all accept Whirlin's post so I'm going to let my probably never gonna happen referral go. I rather like my garbage (it's all about the look, a 1500 year old would just look silly in armor, I figure I have a body that should be kept hidden)so I'll be sticking with them after their testing in the bowels had such lovely results.

Could always use an armor concealer that is altered to look like robes.

[Viekn]

Could always use an armor concealer that is altered to look like robes.

I'll be posting this one in a new auction tonight...A rich scarlet robe edged in thick gold cording - will hide soft leather, rigid leather, chain mail and plate mail armor which covers torso, arms and legs when it is worn, holds fairly small amount for several items

[milesalpha]

Yep I could, but I have a vision of who my character is. An old, one foot in the grave, the other on a banana peel, man. Too old and weak to carry much but his mind is sharp as a tack and the only thing left that is still working well (ok, it's me). Piling extra weight on him is something he/I would dislike (I also have a very bad back). It's just my little way of rping something, I have decided I won't be fighting in the big group battles far from the city because I hate walking. So I'll guard the town, or rather the porch steps while you young folk do all the heavy lifting. I will sit back and bitch about how you are doing.;)
Then I'll holler at you to "get off my lawn." Just a half crazed old wizard, 19 years of imprisonment will do that to you, nothing to pay any attention to. Sort of a cross between Fizban and Rincewind.

Besides, these robes seem to be doing a helluva job of keeping me alive, even in the Bowels.

[Tenser]

I, I had them look into 520 in the last two months, with logs provided. All padding sources have the ability to he randomizes down to +5 padding, regardless of source. So if your hcp + 520 yields +20 crib padding, there's still a chance of of only getting +5 padding.

Furthmore, you're wearing robes, crit divisor 5, basically like wearing nothing at all. It's garbage.


Sorry for the delay, I've been in the hospital. Assume that was the reason for any spelling errors.

I was under the assumption that crit divisor does not come into play on criticals resulting from a manuever attack. If that is the case, robes are probably fine as most of the time wizard don't get hit by AS attacks. Am I wrong?

[Winter]

Besides, these robes seem to be doing a helluva job of keeping me alive, even in the Bowels.

I think armour is over rated if you're a pure, however robes in GSIV are very lacklustre compared to every other RPG out there and need to be looked at. I remember when people used to carry around quaterstaves from the weapon shop because sword/board were so out of place for a caster then runestaves were introduced which changed all of that, the same imagination need to be applied to robes.

[Gelston]

I think armour is over rated if you're a pure, however robes in GSIV are very lacklustre compared to every other RPG out there and need to be looked at. I remember when people used to carry around quaterstaves from the weapon shop because sword/board were so out of place for a caster then runestaves were introduced which changed all of that, the same imagination need to be applied to robes.

But I think clerics should be in chain and use blunt weapons.

[Winter]

But I think clerics should be in chain and use blunt weapons.

That definately should be an option for them along with blunt and shield. If it were up to me I would do away with starting mana completley as it doesn't grow with stat increases like stamina, then have robes add mana equal to their ds enchant but it still contributes to the +50 mana cap from items.


edit- the robe change would have to be available to everyone in the same way the staff change was.

[Dazmar]

I was under the assumption that crit divisor does not come into play on criticals resulting from a manuever attack. If that is the case, robes are probably fine as most of the time wizard don't get hit by AS attacks. Am I wrong?

I am pretty sure crits from maneuver attacks are lessened by crit padding. I seem to handle worm burrows well with crit padded armor on stacked with 520. I also have slash protection added by Roblar. Any input on this would be appreciated.

[milesalpha]

Funny, I can't remember a single wizard/sorc who used a quarterstaff. I personally went for brawling in those early years (hard on tps but kinda fun to have). I do remember bitching a ton about the lack of proper staffs, but hell we were all wearing heavy hide armor in those days, we've come a long way.

[Winter]

Funny, I can't remember a single wizard/sorc who used a quarterstaff.

I used to use them the noun would change depending on what material it was made of, Ora quarterstaves were Ora rods for example.

[Fallen]

Clerics have some token legacy costs to physical skills that reflect their D&D archetype.

[Gelston]

Clerics have some token legacy costs to physical skills that reflect their D&D archetype.

They CAN viably use chain, but it is very frustrating at times. I had my cleric in chain.

[Gelston]

I used to use them the noun would change depending on what material it was made of, Ora quarterstaves were Ora rods for example.

wut

[Tenser]

I am pretty sure crits from maneuver attacks are lessened by crit padding. I seem to handle worm burrows well with crit padded armor on stacked with 520. I also have slash protection added by Roblar. Any input on this would be appreciated.

I know crit padding helps maneuver attacks, but I'm also pretty sure that the crit division of your armor (i.e. 5 for robes, 6 for soft leather, etc) does NOT come into play on maneuver attacks. This is why warriors still get their ass handed to them on maneuvers once in awhile even though they are wearing full plate.

[Aganii]

Tenser is right, afaik. Since your action penalty DOES play a role in maneuver attacks heavier armor can actually be a penalty (a double penalty in some cases vs things like lightning attacks being attracted to metal armor). This was not changed in SMRv2, either, but with more skills becoming a factor its a better representation.

[milesalpha]

Well I carry on with my testing. I have been giving them a good go in the Bowels and have only picked up minors (though the damage from 5 or 6 minors) forces a retreat. I upped the threat scale to include Elders and Jarls today (I am 82) and very happy to say, 4 dead Jarls, several dead Elders and not a scratch. So the 10x part is definitely working.

[drauz]

I have been giving them a good go in the Bowels and have only picked up minors

http://i.imgur.com/za6ltSh.jpg

[Riltus]

Crit padding will reduce critical damage regardless of the source. It's possible that there are a few exceptions to this general rule but I don't recall any specific examples. Also, as a general rule, a higher ASG armor will mitigate damage better than a lower one. Lower ASGs afford better avoidance but, once hit, less damage will be taken when wearing armor with a higher ASG.

Mark

[Tenser]

Crit padding will reduce critical damage regardless of the source. It's possible that there are a few exceptions to this general rule but I don't recall any specific examples. Also, as a general rule, a higher ASG armor will mitigate damage better than a lower one. Lower ASGs afford better avoidance but, once hit, less damage will be taken when wearing armor with a higher ASG.

Mark

The question is not 'does crit padding reduce critical damage in all cases'. Yes, crit padding helps with both AS based attacks and maneuver attacks. The question is, does the critical divisor of the AsG of the armor come into play on maneuver attacks? We know it does on AS based attacks, but I believe it does not on maneuver attacks. And that is why robes aren't really so bad if your character does not get hit by AS attacks due to a large DS. However, robes do have a poor CvA (about 6 less than full leather), so there is another reason to not wear robes.

Basically, if you don't get hit by AS attacks and your TD is high enough to not get hit by CS attacks, then robes will work fine.