Level 70 Empath Onceover

[Erous]

We have a pure casting empath that just turned 70. Looking for feedback on skills placement as we start to decide which higher end content we'll be tackling.

Currently a GoS Master
Doesn't have mana problems unless wither is used
Working on additional CM for cdefense, curious on thoughts regarding this placement
Triple PF


at level 70), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 130 35 35
Combat Maneuvers...................| 40 8 8
Physical Fitness...................| 313 213 213
Arcane Symbols.....................| 171 71 71
Magic Item Use.....................| 171 71 71
Harness Power......................| 171 71 71
Spirit Mana Control................| 171 71 71
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 171 71 71
Survival...........................| 171 71 71
Stalking and Hiding................| 0 0 0
Perception.........................| 171 71 71
Climbing...........................| 145 45 45
Swimming...........................| 145 45 45
First Aid..........................| 242 142 142

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 31 31

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 40 40

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 91 91

[khorpulent]

Those CM ranks aren't worth the points. My empath is at 13.5m exp and still has zero CM ranks. I'm not really sure why have 35 armor ranks either -- all you need is 8 for doubles if you're a pure. I guess you're wearing LBP or something? If you are, I don't know how you can stand the hindrance.

While it's nice being 3x skinning skills, you could probably bring your FA down to 1x unless you just really farm skins hardcore. It's actually cheaper to 2x FA than to 1x/1x FA/Survival, but I hate slipping on ice so I do survival.

I am personally a proponent of spell aiming for empaths, especially from like 50-90, but it does shave like 10 points off your CS. You might be able to afford it if you dropped the CM/Armor Use/FA ranks like I just mentioned. A lot of people put off SA for empaths until post-cap, but it’s just really limiting if your only attack spells are 1106/1115. There are some areas you simply won’t be able to hunt without bolts. I used 1110 all through the bowels (which is kind of dumb, really, cause plasma ignites bowels gas), cause 1106 doesn’t work on so much stuff in there.

If you don’t do SA, you need to take some steps to beef up your 1115. For 1115 to be effective, you’ll want some summoning lore, and probably more empath ranks for CS. You might also think about channeling in more offensive stances or going open-handed. Summoning lore gives you a chance to add a fifth damage cycle to 1115. The 5th cycle is a high-damage cycle like the 4th. Often cycles 4 and 5 do 100+ damage, whereas 1-3 are pretty weak. Summoning lore has the potential to significantly increase the damage you do with 1115. I think the percentage chance for the 5th cycle is like 2/3 of your summoning ranks (e.g. 90 ranks gives a 60% chance, or something like that).

However, since you’re GoS, blessing lore is also incredibly helpful because of how it works with 1107. But you only need 65 ranks of blessing lore to get 100% of your stamina from 1107, so I’d drop your blessing ranks down to 65 and start putting ranks in summoning.

Telepathy lore is also kind of handy. If you do train SA, you get extra warding cycles from 1110 at 5 and 20 ranks of telepathy. It also increases the chance that 1117 will propagate damage. You might also consider a few ranks of MMC so you can meet the thresholds for increasing number of targets with 1117. I think you gain additional targets at 10, 24, 50, 100 ranks. MMC is cheap and 1117 is incredibly useful, so I’d get at least 5 ranks.

You could also gain some CS by getting more ranks in empath circle. You get .5 CS for every rank above level from 21-60, so get as many ranks as you can. If you really wanted to maximize your empathy CS, you could actually drop down to 20 ranks in both spiritual circles and put those ranks in empathy instead. You get .33 CS for ever rank up to 2/3 your level (42 spell ranks in your case), but only .1 CS for ever rank after that, so you could pick up a little extra CS that way. I think you'd gain 5 or 6 CS if you dropped down to 120/220 and put those points in empath circle. Of course, 225/130 are pretty useful, so you may not want to make that sacrifice. I just went up to 120/225 until my 90s, I think.

I also notice that you have zero transformation lore. I don’t know how you can stand the high healing RT, but I guess if you don’t heal much it could be tolerable. It’s nice to have 50 ranks in transformation to unlock a second daily use of 1150, though. You’ll need 57 ranks at cap for zero hard RT from healing.

[Erous]

Good points all around, thanks. And you touched on exactly what we've been debating, whether or not we wanted to sacrifice CM for SA. The reason for the 35 armor is because I run a 78 paladin with fluidity, so she benefits from the hindrance savings. Would you say going to brig isn't worth the cost considering fluidity?

[Tenser]

Does the empath get hit while hunting? Most CS casters don't get hit too often, so the armor training seems it would be of low value.

[khorpulent]

I mean, hindrance is just a personal preference. I can't stand even 1% hindrance, but if you can make brig work, the extra protection certainly won't hurt.

But as for the CM, any benefit you get from the 8 ranks is totally negligible compared to the benefits you'd get from putting the points elsewhere. If nothing else, put the points into more empath circle ranks so you can boost your CS and have more success with 1120. Sympathetic creatures won't hit with you with maneuvers, after all.

Usually people who eschew SA put all the extra points into spell ranks for the extra CS. Spell aiming gives you more versatility, but you can certainly do without it. It just depends on whether or not you're willing to be completely unable to hit some creatures. Pretty much the only time my empath bolts at this point is when using 111 + 1117 in troll warcamps, and sometimes I use 1110 when I'm trying to avoid ruining skins.

Honestly, if I had to do it again I might skip SA until post-cap, now that I've seen how powerful 1115 can be with summoning lore + open handed channeling. Although I did use wizard wands well into my 60s, so maybe I’d have kept it up until that point.

Just keep in mind that, once you move out of minotaurs or wherever you’re hunting now, 1115 will be your bread and butter. And while CS will be a big deal, summoning lore also makes a SIGNIFICANT difference in how effective your 1115 will be. I went through levels 70-90 or so thinking that Wither just wasn’t that good, I think mostly because I didn’t have any summoning lore and I had points tied up in spell aiming.

Still, it’s a tricky balance, because those 65 summoning ranks essentially mean an extra ~150 mana every 5 minutes from 1107. I personally think it’s kind of worth it to go over 1x in spiritual lore, just for those benefits. My empath is currently at 65 and 80 ranks in blessings and summoning, respectively.

[khorpulent]

Does the empath get hit while hunting? Most CS casters don't get hit too often, so the armor training seems it would be of low value.

This makes sense, although you could probably only convert those extra 27 ranks into something like 3 spell ranks.

Also, isn't it 40 ranks for brig? I'm at work and can't check the wiki, but I'm pretty sure that's right. You're certainly going to have more problems with maneuvers if you're under-trained.

[Erous]

This makes sense, although you could probably only convert those extra 27 ranks into something like 3 spell ranks.

Also, isn't it 40 ranks for brig? I'm at work and can't check the wiki, but I'm pretty sure that's right. You're certainly going to have more problems with maneuvers if you're under-trained.

35 for brig. She's a dirty half-elf, so her maneuver abilities aren't sub par. She's uphunting n'care and aivren with me on Plane 3 and she gets hit, A LOT...me too for that matter, but their fear ability is what gets her the most, dropping her DS. Not sure if its the brig, PF trains or a combination that's kept her alive.

[khorpulent]

Oh, it's actually 30 for brig. That frees up 75 PTP right there!

[Arqueto]

30 ranks is only for maneuvers - 35 still for MjS and Empath hinderance.