Damage weighting why isn't it popular?

[Larkan]

Not a complaint, more of a question so apologies if this is in the wrong box...

Back in GS3 it seemed to be a thing that damage weighting was quite popular, in particular for any class which ambushes from hiding.

Fast forward 20 years and it seems no one is particularly interested in damage weighting (or padding but that is a different matter) and it seems a lot of high end "ambushing" weapons like rapiers etc have crit weighting rather than damage.

Can someone explain what changed? Is this the result of a mechanics change? Doesn't need to be specific but just intrigued...

Thanks

Larkan

[hello]

Because the GS combat system runs on a "Gotcha!" system where one or two critical hits determines if you win or lose. It's rare (apart from some undead) where you'll be killing through attrition.

I really think that some changes should be made to critters where critical won't matter so much. For instance, I think ALL undead should be immune to stuns, I also think some Corporeal undead be immune to crit killing. I think intelligent live critters use armor accessories (padded helmets) to protect themselves.

[Warriorbird]

I wear a masterfully damage padded armor item fairly frequently. Weighting became less desirable due to change that made it more variable. I still know some people that use those damage weighted mattocks though.

[ArchSenex]

The short of it is that crits kill, and hitpoint damage really doesn't. Being able to do an extra 20 points of damage on every attack (which is really high weighting) means very little, but being able to increase the rank of criticals, even by 1 rank, can be the difference between almost no effect (stun-immune critters are everywhere) and instant-death.

Sorcerer Pain (711) which only does HP damage is made powerfull by the addition of RT, which nothing is immune to. If not for the RT locking, the spell would be significantly weaker. For many other spells, hitting multiple times etc. increases your chance of getting a critical, and thus makes them powerful.

So overall, the game is about getting crits more than anything else, at least right now. OTHER effects, like flares, are valuable because they either knock down or give a chance at a second crit etc.

[Whirlin]

Improving Critical Tier will also result in additional blood loss in addition to increased likelihood of death from criticals.

Only think damage weighting would be nice on would be an undead bane for non-corporeal

[hello]

Can corporeal undead like Zombies or Skeletons be stunned?

[time4fun]

Randomization is the reason damage weighting fell out of favor. I strongly believe that damage weighting should be exempt from randomization. To Whirlin's point, crit weighting already does what damage weighting does...and a lot more.

There needs to be some advantage to damage weighting that crit weighting doesn't have.

[time4fun]

Can corporeal undead like Zombies or Skeletons be stunned?

Some can

[hello]

Randomization is the reason damage weighting fell out of favor. I strongly believe that damage weighting should be exempt from randomization. To Whirlin's point, crit weighting already does what damage weighting does...and a lot more.

There needs to be some advantage to damage weighting that crit weighting doesn't have.

Oh snap, didn't know damage weighting was randomized as well. Yeah, then they're not even close, Crit weighting all the way.

[Stumplicker]

What they said, about damage weighting. A note about damage padding however, since you mentioned it: it is occasionally desirable, depending on the situation. Warrior types later on tend to be in full plate, with great crit resistance to start with, and most of their deaths come from being plinked to death by damage. In a situation like that, damage padding is sometimes preferable.

[Gelston]

If it wasn't randomized damage, it'd be a lot more popular at higher tiers. Even then though, it was always more of a lower level type of weapon.

[Dazmar]

My mage is in 7x damage padded leathers. Most of his deaths come from being knocked down and tapped to death. Seems to keep him alive a little longer in those situations.

[ArchSenex]

My mage is in 7x damage padded leathers. Most of his deaths come from being knocked down and tapped to death. Seems to keep him alive a little longer in those situations.

Interesting, my experience has been the opposite, it's almost always the crits that get me, so much so that I've been debating going sunfist for their crit padding a long time.

Granted they give damage padding too, and both is always best!


Do you channel your bolts? You might be staying in stance offensive longer than I do. I use more warding spells at my current level.

[Gelston]

Well, the OP is taking about weighting, rather than padding... But damage padding works a little better than damage weighting.

[Donquix]

Like whirlin mentioned, damage weighting doesn't even typically cause more damage than crit weighting. You need a very high amount to even have it do that, on average. And even then, you don't get the added benefit of the extra kill/stun/knockdown status effects. Damage weighting is just bad.

Now if you have like, a +40 damage weighted splitting short sword, go nuts with your mstrikes.

[Larkan]

What they said, about damage weighting. A note about damage padding however, since you mentioned it: it is occasionally desirable, depending on the situation. Warrior types later on tend to be in full plate, with great crit resistance to start with, and most of their deaths come from being plinked to death by damage. In a situation like that, damage padding is sometimes preferable.

When I left in GS3 this was the general wisdom, if you were a warrior take damage padding. But it actually doesn't seem to be the case now, I hesitate to guess but I think the HP gained from ensorcelled weapons may have changed this.....

It really seems now that even warriors (myself included) prefer crit.

[Ardwen]

lots of warriors still use damage pads, now theres other choices however, armor with TD boosts or kroderine are also very popular.i damage above 6 points gets randomized, so ya can never count on more then 7 of it, makes it much less awe inspiring

[Larkan]

Going back to the damage weighting on weapons however, I thought in GS3 there was a mechanic whereby ambushers would quite easily max on "crit rank" from any given attack (i.e. an attack from ambush would generally have a much higher chance to crit) and therefore damage weighting was preferable on a weapon as it would result in a better overall result... but maybe this is BS, I never really studied the mechanics....

[Ardwen]

If you have something that has masterful damage, in gs3 ya had 20 extra damage every attack, thats a buncha crit levels no matter how ya slice it, now its 7-20, or 10-11, which on heavy armors is a whopping rank.

[Larkan]

If you have something that has masterful damage, in gs3 ya had 20 extra damage every attack, thats a buncha crit levels no matter how ya slice it, now its 7-20, or 10-11, which on heavy armors is a whopping rank.

Ah okay, and now that rank is variable so it isn't such a good deal?

[Drew]

Damage weighting (damage padding has some uses for redux'd people) was a mechanic that wasn't terribly well thought out 20 years ago and has inexplicably never been changed. The problem was it was designed for a 20-25 level system. When critters have 100 HP getting 10 HP off per swing can be pretty good. You can nick someone to death in 10 swings. Something big like 20-30 points sounded downright broken. The problem is that as more creatures and greater levels were added the damage weighting had absolutely no scaling while critical weighting scaled very well.

Fixing damage weighting would be doing something like quadrupling the amount of HP damage it does as you go from level 1 to 50. So your 10 point weighted dagger would do 40 points at level 50. That could open up some unique build paths where you have multi-strikers with heavily damage weighted fast attack items actually killing creatures through attrition. You'd probably want to just remove the name damage weighting, leave damage padding as is or slightly adjusted and call the system I just proposed "serrated blades" or something similar.

[Dazmar]

Interesting, my experience has been the opposite, it's almost always the crits that get me, so much so that I've been debating going sunfist for their crit padding a long time.

Granted they give damage padding too, and both is always best!

Do you channel your bolts? You might be staying in stance offensive longer than I do. I use more warding spells at my current level.


I hunt in full offense but I am near cap and my mage armor spell provides crit padding on top of the damage padding my actual armor has. My ds is also very high so when I fall with rt in a swarm i usually end up nicked to death if death happens