looking at jumping the CoL ship, for Voln... anything I'm missing or not considering?

[grapedog]

So, from a purely mechanical point of view, what I normally use in CoL are just the basic AS/DS/TD signs, and I'll run with Sign of Swords quite a bit but not all the time, like the others. But it looks like Voln mastery, step 26, the AS/DS is pretty much equal. CoL does offer a bit more TD protection, later in their tree, for a spirit cost, but I rarely/never use it currently. Especially with the spell tanking available through a dreavening.

Other things I'll miss with CoL, from again a mechanics perspective, Staunching, Healing, and Thought signs. I saw that Voln has it's own symbol for health restoration, which isn't as powerful as Sign of Healing, but would do the trick. I can use a crystal amulet to keep up the local thought net, which is annoying, but doable. Staunching not being available kind of sucks, that's a really helpful sign, and it doesn't look like there is any Voln equivalent.

One of my main reasons for even considering the jump, is the cramped hunting areas at my level, skill-set. My weapon can't be blessed, so that eliminates pretty much every single undead option, unless I wanna switch to a different weapon, and rely on blesses from nice people. With undead being not an option, I'm stuck farming only certain locations. Also, more than 70% of my bounties end up being undead, which I just remove, wait and ask for a new one. 3 out of 4 times, it's another undead bounty.

I'm planning on switching to UAC as well with the fixskills coming, changing over from a sword/board. It seems that with Voln, and going UAC, it would be a nice combo, allowing me to bless my fists and feet, until I unlock the step where Kai makes my fists able to damage undead without a bless.

Things I like about Voln, aside from the generic AS/DS/Whatnot boosts are the Symbols of Diminishment, Recall, and the last four steps, when death happens, or to try and avoid it.

So, the ultimate question, is there anything mechanically I'm not looking at, not thinking about.

I'd love for you to share your thoughts and ideas, before I make this jump.

[SonoftheNorth]

Well once you finish col you are done and voln requires favor upkeep.

[Roiken]

Sounds like you are a rogue or a warrior? Either or I wouldn't switch to voln because you are having a rough patch hunting bounties at your particular level, because that is the aspect that is going to change faster than your society choice. However seeking should end up nice and return but comes with the up keep of the favor as mentioned. If you are a square the ability to get a body out of most places should come in handy another benefit for voln. If the spirit drain from Col is stressing you may just be going through the mid 30's patch everyone has growing pains. At least with COL the signs continue to grow longer in length as you continue to level.

[Ososis]

Voln is boss. Never done any others so I may be biased. Two other symbols that are super handy are Symbol of Seeking, and Symbol of Return. You can take friends and corpses with you and some of the places they can get you to or from are pretty damn helpful. For example, find a corpse somewhere up in Icemule that can't be dragged over one of the many undraggable bullshits in the area. Symbol of Return to get them to Voln, then Symbol of Seeking (only usable in Voln) to the frozen garden, and then you have a draggable path back to town.
Just to be clear, kai blesses ALL your UAC.

I only ran into favor issues during the undead gap, and even then the favor I had built up before then lasted me almost all the way through. Now the undead gap has been lessened and with Reim you can really pull favor from anywhere. As I said I have not played with others but I like that favor is it's own separate entity, I don't need mana or to watch my spirit (<75% fucks you up).

If you do go voln, grab an acorn from TSC when you find one and stick it in your pocket. They are only there when you don't need them. Also, you TURN the ring. God damn ring.

[drauz]

Now that favor doesn't get set to 0 every time you complete a step it is much more manageable, especially when you finally become a master.

One thing to note is that the higher level you are the easier it is to advance in Voln. The amount of favor you earn is directly effected by the level of the creature. If it doesn't effect your RP I would suggest that you start with CoL and then around 30-50 switch to Voln. You can easily master in a couple weekends.

[drauz]

Also symbol of transcendence is amazing.

Symbol of Recall gives you your spells back which is amazing including outside spells.

can keep yourself preserved after death forever.

Symbol of Dreams regens spirit/mana/and health at huge rates.

You are sacrificing a little AS/DS/TD for huge utility gains.

[Orthin]

Yes for UAC voln is awesome. You can use any UAC gear without a bless but if makes that gear 0x. So if you are running with a bless and it runs out, your hunt isn't over you just take a UAF debuff and keep on keeping on or you never bless your shit and run 0x forever which is what I do.

[hello]

Order of Luukos man. It's coming soon (if Wyrom has any creative bone in his body). Blood sacrifices, cool kill spells that work only on the living, and orgies, oh man the fucking orgies. Order of Luukos, you can't beat it!

[Stumplicker]

Voln 4 lyfe. Switch. You'll never regret it. I switched to Voln from Sunfist at level 40, mastered by 43, upon mastering had 120 spins, ran Reim about three times and I've been uncountable ever since. Just run Reim once a month or so with a big group and you'll have plenty of favor to never have to worry about favor again.

And as was stated here already, lots of cool skills, plus your DS/TD is the same skill, in protection, so fewer things to type! I'm always a fan of that. I go to reim every night, stack up symbol courage, protection, and supremacy for 30 minutes' worth, and only have to type anything to re-bless my grabbers and kickers, and even then I forget sometimes, and symbol of Kai's whatever lets that be viable still.

[Warriorbird]

Another hidden reason is you can wear kroderine gear as Voln and still use your abilities.

[bunnymustdie]

Also symbol of transcendence is amazing.



Seconding this. It'll save your life, at least some of the times.

[Ceyrin]

The thing I miss most about CoL is sign of thought. I hate having to wear a crystal amulet to use the thought net.

[Donquix]

The thing I miss most about CoL is sign of thought. I hate having to wear a crystal amulet to use the thought net.

http://whatyearisit.info/img/what_year_is_it.jpg

[BriarFox]

You should also consider Guardians of Sunfist, the third society. https://gswiki.play.net/Guardians_of_Sunfist

[Tisket]

The worse thing about Voln is being forced to listen to those damn droning monks each step.

[SonoftheNorth]

so fewer things to type! I'm always a fan of that.


Lol like you type.

[khorpulent]

With the exception of wracking, Voln does everything better than COL. Well sure, you get a little more AS/DS/TD from COL (against living), but from a mechanical standpoint, Voln is just superior.

It's worth noting that the Voln UAC stuff (excepting Smite) isn't terribly useful because it ignores the enchant/properties of your UAC gear without a bless. Smite is neat, though. As far as staunching/healing go, symbol of restoration works just as well.

The favor upkeep can be annoying, but like someone else said, now that step favor and the favor you use are tracked separately, it's not a problem -- the last character I mastered had 650 spins by the time he finished. And these days, a trip or two with a big Reim group is enough to keep you stocked up on favor for life, unless you like to spam symbol of sleep or something. I'm pretty sure that the favor cost per step scales with level, though, so I don't think it's actually quicker at higher levels. You will gain more steps per level at the upper end, though, simply because each level takes more exp. I do think that you collect more favor to actually use at higher levels, though, because favor is level-based.

One thing to keep in mind is that, once you drop COL, you'll be taking a big hit to your AS/DS/TD for quite some time until you gain some ranks in Voln. I'd recommend making sure that you're at a place where you have an undead hunting area that will still work for you without your signs/symbols.

And as BriarFox mentioned, you should also consider Sunfist. You'll get +35 AS/DS, +20 TD, free HCP that stacks, HCW against hated foes, and some other really useful stuff. Plus, if you're a fan of ESP, you'll get sigil of contact! I prefer Sunfist slightly from a mechanical perspective, but the stamina/mana requirements can be a bit intense at lower levels. If you consider Sunfist, I strongly recommend getting stamina recovery enhancives (especially if you're a square who uses a lot of maneuvers, anyhow). I switched my warrior from Voln to Sunfist at 90 and was quite happy with the switch, but it definitely made it hard to do all my regular warrior stuff (surge, berserk, other maneuvers) and keep up the more expensive sigils, until I got some hefty stamina enhancives. But if you can afford the stamina/mana, I say it's worth it for the free HCP alone.

[hello]

If you hunt at least 50% undead, Voln is a must, and overall better than the other two.

[Ososis]

If you hunt at least 50% undead, Voln is a must, and overall better than the other two.

What is this number based on? Nothing? OK, just checking.

[zennsunni]

Society choice is simple to me now: Small race caster? CoL. Kill lots of Undead? Voln. Everything else? Sunfist.

[Stumplicker]

Society choice is simple to me now: Small race caster? CoL. Kill lots of Undead? Voln. Everything else? Sunfist.

I dunno. I was a Sunfist master prior to going Voln, and it was nice, don't get me wrong, but man...I like to use my stamina for mstriking. And the TD sigil is only like 90 seconds long. And none of the skills stack. So you're constantly upkeeping stuff, and constantly out of stamina. And that's coming from someone who 3x's Physical Fitness.

[Donquix]

Society choice is simple to me now: Small race caster? CoL. Kill lots of Undead? Voln. Everything else? Sunfist.

I just can't get into sunfist. I dunno, on my semis maybe because they have fuckall to use stamina on for the most part, especially until later levels, but I kept putting characters in GoS because it was new and I kept just getting frustrated with how short the durations are.

I do love me some determination though.

[grapedog]

My main, the one I'm debating on making the switch with, is an almost 50 rogue. Right now I'm pretty much stuck hunting Roa'ters and Kiramon in Darkstone, around the landing. I could leave the landing, but I like it there. I like the bustle, i like the busy-ness of it. I also like the services offered, with the relative ease of finding bards, healers, clerics and whatnot, especially late at night since I'm a west coast player.

Roa'ters are never boring,and I hunt them for boxes for guild reps, but they are almost out of my exp range. Kiramon are in my range, but they can be boring, and crowded, and drop no boxes. Voln, and being able to self bless, or hunt without a bless while UAC, would just open up more options. I could stay in CoL and get blesses from others, but I hate begging for a bless, it just irks me. I enjoy being mostly self sufficient in that regard.

Looking over maps, it doesn't look like it gets much better in the landing in the next few levels for what to hunt, that isn't undead. IMT and Pinefar have some options, and that's possible, but I like the idea of all of undead being opened up. More choice, less crowds, not having to turn down undead bounties.

I have an almost 20 paladin in GoS, and I like the society, I like it's mechanical benefits, and the ability to always find like level creatures to hunt and fry off of is nice, even if the treasure sucks. Though I'd hate to try and be an ambusher dealing with those swarms sometimes when you are in a camp.

Is there going to be a level range soon where it opens up with more choice for non undead hunting? Or is that one of the banes of the landing is living critter choice.

[Fiend394]

With the exception of wracking, Voln does everything better than COL. Well sure, you get a little more AS/DS/TD from COL (against living), but from a mechanical standpoint, Voln is just superior.



What are you using to justify this assertion?

Mechanically, CoL wins in almost all aspects for most classes....

[Ososis]

What are you using to justify this assertion?

Mechanically, CoL wins in almost all aspects for most classes....

Perhaps you should elaborate upon your opinion as khorpulent did.

[drauz]

My main, the one I'm debating on making the switch with, is an almost 50 rogue. Right now I'm pretty much stuck hunting Roa'ters and Kiramon in Darkstone, around the landing. I could leave the landing, but I like it there. I like the bustle, i like the busy-ness of it. I also like the services offered, with the relative ease of finding bards, healers, clerics and whatnot, especially late at night since I'm a west coast player.

Roa'ters are never boring,and I hunt them for boxes for guild reps, but they are almost out of my exp range. Kiramon are in my range, but they can be boring, and crowded, and drop no boxes. Voln, and being able to self bless, or hunt without a bless while UAC, would just open up more options. I could stay in CoL and get blesses from others, but I hate begging for a bless, it just irks me. I enjoy being mostly self sufficient in that regard.

Looking over maps, it doesn't look like it gets much better in the landing in the next few levels for what to hunt, that isn't undead. IMT and Pinefar have some options, and that's possible, but I like the idea of all of undead being opened up. More choice, less crowds, not having to turn down undead bounties.

I have an almost 20 paladin in GoS, and I like the society, I like it's mechanical benefits, and the ability to always find like level creatures to hunt and fry off of is nice, even if the treasure sucks. Though I'd hate to try and be an ambusher dealing with those swarms sometimes when you are in a camp.

Is there going to be a level range soon where it opens up with more choice for non undead hunting? Or is that one of the banes of the landing is living critter choice.

I actually like symbol of mana over wracking. Yes you get more mana back from wracking but you take a huge spirit loss and you DS goes to shit. I can get 100 mana back for the cost of 1 deed which is usually enough to do what I wanted to on a hunt.

If you are spelling up and want to wrack you can use symbol of dreams with similar results. You will be back at full mana in 3-5 minutes and can be used back to back to back unlike wracking.

Like I said before Voln offers a -9 AS/DS but for that you get so much more. With 9 AS being almost nothing of consequence at later levels it was a no brainer for me. My sorc is a Volner for life. Plus hes a dark elf so 1 wrack means like 2 years to get his spirit back.

[drauz]

My main, the one I'm debating on making the switch with, is an almost 50 rogue. Right now I'm pretty much stuck hunting Roa'ters and Kiramon in Darkstone, around the landing. I could leave the landing, but I like it there. I like the bustle, i like the busy-ness of it. I also like the services offered, with the relative ease of finding bards, healers, clerics and whatnot, especially late at night since I'm a west coast player.

Roa'ters are never boring,and I hunt them for boxes for guild reps, but they are almost out of my exp range. Kiramon are in my range, but they can be boring, and crowded, and drop no boxes. Voln, and being able to self bless, or hunt without a bless while UAC, would just open up more options. I could stay in CoL and get blesses from others, but I hate begging for a bless, it just irks me. I enjoy being mostly self sufficient in that regard.

Looking over maps, it doesn't look like it gets much better in the landing in the next few levels for what to hunt, that isn't undead. IMT and Pinefar have some options, and that's possible, but I like the idea of all of undead being opened up. More choice, less crowds, not having to turn down undead bounties.

I have an almost 20 paladin in GoS, and I like the society, I like it's mechanical benefits, and the ability to always find like level creatures to hunt and fry off of is nice, even if the treasure sucks. Though I'd hate to try and be an ambusher dealing with those swarms sometimes when you are in a camp.

Is there going to be a level range soon where it opens up with more choice for non undead hunting? Or is that one of the banes of the landing is living critter choice.

Also at 50 you could make the short travel to bonespear those creatures are right at your level range and would keep you busy for 10 levels. Don't even have to stay in Solhaven.

[Donquix]

What are you using to justify this assertion?

Mechanically, CoL wins in almost all aspects for most classes....

1996 called. They want their opinions on societies back.

[Ososis]

I always found the quickest way to farm favor was to find the biggest critter I could reliably 1 shot. If you have to hard battle undead creatures at your level, you can turn WAY more favor/hour by farming something half your level if you can pop their heads easy enough. I used Nedum Vereri to fast track favor much longer than I probably should have. They just splatter so quick I can 100% safely just churn out favor. Obviously you are forgoing XP and loot if you underhunt to that degree, but to fast track your steps, or to just get a few K favor in your pocket its a good strategy. Especially if you are drunk and want to be productive but not get murdered.

[drauz]

I always found the quickest way to farm favor was to find the biggest critter I could reliably 1 shot. If you have to hard battle undead creatures at your level, you can turn WAY more favor/hour by farming something half your level if you can pop their heads easy enough. I used Nedum Vereri to fast track favor much longer than I probably should have. They just splatter so quick I can 100% safely just churn out favor. Obviously you are forgoing XP and loot if you underhunt to that degree, but to fast track your steps, or to just get a few K favor in your pocket its a good strategy. Especially if you are drunk and want to be productive but not get murdered.

When my capped sorc switched to voln I went to bonespear for a weekend and mastered. Like you say I was able to blast thru them in about 1-2 casts and for the first 10 steps I think I spent more time running from Solhaven to landing and doing the tasks than actually killing creatures.

[Ososis]

Because I was curious I looked at the amount of favor required to achieve Symbol of Blessing at different trainings, and how many like-level critters that comes out to.
Favor earned per LL kill
round up((Character Level ÷ 15) × creature level) = Units of Favor
lvl 20----26
lvl 50---167
lvl 100--667

Like Level Kill=LLK
Symbol of blessing
Formula: 100 + (( level^2 × 5 ) ÷ 3 )

lvl 20----766 favor-------30 LLK
lvl 50----4,266 favor-----25 LLK
lvl 100---16,766 favor---25 LLK

Hmm. I am gonna look into this a bit more with more data sets. Also I may have buggered a number so feel free to call me out if I mucked it up.

[drauz]

Because I was curious I looked at the amount of favor required to achieve Symbol of Blessing at different trainings, and how many like-level critters that comes out to.
Favor earned per LL kill
round up((Character Level ÷ 15) × creature level) = Units of Favor
lvl 20----26
lvl 50---167
lvl 100--667

Symbol of blessing
Formula: 100 + (( level^2 × 5 ) ÷ 3 )

lvl 20----766 favor
lvl 50----4,266 favor
lvl 100---16,766 favor

LL kills to achieve the step
lvl 20----30 kills
lvl 50----25 kills
lvl 100--25 kills


Hmm. I am gonna look into this a bit more with more data sets. Also I may have buggered a number so feel free to call me out if I mucked it up.

Do they TRUNC these calculations? I didnt see that on the wiki, so it would more than likely be 1 more kill to achieve rank up.

[Ososis]

Do they TRUNC these calculations? I didnt see that on the wiki, so it would more than likely be 1 more kill to achieve rank up.
No idea, I just did basic rounding which is probably wrong,


Made a quick spreadsheet. This is the TOTAL like level kills required to master Voln.

Train-------LLK
10---------7429
20---------4093
30---------3467
40---------3220
50---------3114
60---------3060
70---------3021
80---------2999
90---------2985
100--------2972

[grapedog]

I find it striking the difference between finishing voln at 50, and 100, it's so little, compared to level 10.

[Ososis]

I find it striking the difference between finishing voln at 50, and 100, it's so little, compared to level 10.

Aye, that's actually what compelled me to look deeper into it. Seems like any work on voln before 20 is pretty meaningless, you will train up before you make a dent. Of course any progress is some progress but it would probably be more beneficial for Voln to grind XP instead of favor during those early times.

[drauz]

Aye, that's actually what compelled me to look deeper into it. Seems like any work on voln before 20 is pretty meaningless, you will train up before you make a dent. Of course any progress is some progress but it would probably be more beneficial for Voln to grind XP instead of favor during those early times.

Exactly why I said unless you want it as an RP tool it is far more beneficial to start with CoL and at 20-30 switch to voln. It truely is night and day.

[Lovend]

So, from a purely mechanical point of view, what I normally use in CoL are just the basic AS/DS/TD signs, and I'll run with Sign of Swords quite a bit but not all the time, like the others. But it looks like Voln mastery, step 26, the AS/DS is pretty much equal. CoL does offer a bit more TD protection, later in their tree, for a spirit cost, but I rarely/never use it currently. Especially with the spell tanking available through a dreavening.

Other things I'll miss with CoL, from again a mechanics perspective, Staunching, Healing, and Thought signs. I saw that Voln has it's own symbol for health restoration, which isn't as powerful as Sign of Healing, but would do the trick. I can use a crystal amulet to keep up the local thought net, which is annoying, but doable. Staunching not being available kind of sucks, that's a really helpful sign, and it doesn't look like there is any Voln equivalent.

One of my main reasons for even considering the jump, is the cramped hunting areas at my level, skill-set. My weapon can't be blessed, so that eliminates pretty much every single undead option, unless I wanna switch to a different weapon, and rely on blesses from nice people. With undead being not an option, I'm stuck farming only certain locations. Also, more than 70% of my bounties end up being undead, which I just remove, wait and ask for a new one. 3 out of 4 times, it's another undead bounty.

I'm planning on switching to UAC as well with the fixskills coming, changing over from a sword/board. It seems that with Voln, and going UAC, it would be a nice combo, allowing me to bless my fists and feet, until I unlock the step where Kai makes my fists able to damage undead without a bless.

Things I like about Voln, aside from the generic AS/DS/Whatnot boosts are the Symbols of Diminishment, Recall, and the last four steps, when death happens, or to try and avoid it.

So, the ultimate question, is there anything mechanically I'm not looking at, not thinking about.

I'd love for you to share your thoughts and ideas, before I make this jump.

Hello, I haven't played in 20 years, I'm just trolling the forums. But I can say on this topic, I went through this exact ordeal at the time on my level 58 rogue. I decided to switch to VOLN and I was a lot happier with all the utility and goodies that it came with, and I only lost a little bit of strength. Relying on critical strikes, I realize the loss in attack strength didn't really hurt my character much at all.

However, I will say, this switch came in a phase of boredom and need for change. The steps it took to master voln was very fulfilling and enjoyable, and the community (where COL had none) was very positive on my staying-power within the realm of paying my subscription every month.

That said, the loss of sign of madness was felt. I rarely ever used the ability, but just having it available was a big tool in the rogue toolkit. I used to PvP, and my rogue had a few RP-PVP moments where I tracked down enemies or hired targets, or just for RP purposes got into PVP situations where I needed Madness to ensure a quick end to a PvP encounter. I was able to take down legends dozens of levels above my head, just because of the grand poohbah's evil signs. And one of the highlights of my entire gemstone life was being able to defend River Rest single-handidly during the rift expansion event where the mobs invaded the entire game, every city, and with a orange crystal (heroism buff), blue crystal, + sign of madness, I was able to kill vvrael invaders 50 levels above me. (needed like a 60 roll or better to get about 118+ total roll). I brought down about 6 vvrael in River Rest and was hallowed the savior of RR for months by city goers. That would never have been possible without being a member of CoL.

So it's a tough decision. If you value the ability to defend yourself, or be a character not to mess with, CoL is the best bet. I'm not 100% sure but maybe some classes won't see the huge benefit of sign of madness, but if you are one of them, you should think twice and be 100% sure the switch is worth it.