Dell Dilemma

[Wezas]

So for Xmas I got $150 in Dell Gift Cards.

They say Home & Home Office, but I'm hoping that Dell will allow me to buy things from their "Small Business" section as well. Small business seems to have better deals/rebates/less crappy printer add-ons.

Minimum Requirements:

2.8ghz P4 or higher (preferably with HT technology)
Ram - 256 is fine, go for 512 if it's free (going to upgrade anyways)
No OS (though the servers seem to be the only ones with that option)
Hard Drive - most of the PC's offer an 80gb upgrade for $30
CD-rom - whatever's free (CD-RW if it's free)
3.5 Floppy
PCI Express
No Monitor (have one already)
No Special Video Card (going to upgrade)


I've been looking at some of their servers... which they say "CANNOT BE USED AS A DESKTOP" - but look like pretty sweet deals. Not sure why I couldn't use it as a desktop by adding a video card into one of their PCI Express slots:

PowerEdge SC420 (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=sc420&s=bs d)

2.8ghz P4, 800mhz FSB
Free upgrade to 512MB DDR2 400mhz
1.44M Internal Floppy
48x CD (free)
1 year basic coverage
80gb 7.2k RPM HD
Onboard NIC

Final Price - $363 - $150 (gift certificates) = computer for ~ $200

There's also the PowerEdge SC1420 (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=sc1420&s=b sd) with the 2.8ghz Xeon processor for $589. And the PowerEdge 700 (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=pe700&s=bs d) that comes with 3 years of Parts + Onsite Labor (Next Business Day).

Any other suggestions from Dell's website?

(this was also posted on the WoW Guild board in their "Tech Soup" section)

[Parkbandit]

Is Dell the computer of choice for many people? I'm thinking of upgrading my computer already.. and giving the one I'm on to my kids.

I don't upgrade anything.. I just pop it out of the box and plug it in. What would you suggest for WoW? That's the most strain my computer will take.. everything else is email, web browsing and word/excel.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Is Dell the computer of choice for many people? I'm thinking of upgrading my computer already.. and giving the one I'm on to my kids.

Well, I use a dell for my work laptop and so does my girl. Haven't had any problems with it. And their deals are usually pretty damn good.


I don't upgrade anything.. I just pop it out of the box and plug it in. What would you suggest for WoW? That's the most strain my computer will take.. everything else is email, web browsing and word/excel.

Here's WoW's system requirements:

Windows® System 98/ME/2000/XP OS:

800 MHz or higher CPU
256 MB or more of RAM
32 MB 3D graphics card with hardware transform and lighting, such as GeForce 2 or better
4 GB or more of available hard drive space
DirectX® 9.0c or above
A 56k or higher modem with an Internet connection

Pretty much anything purchased now will run it - though a better video card and more memory would definately help.

Dell, however, is notorious for not having AGP slots on it's lower (cheaper) model PC's. So you'd have to go the PCI express route for an upgraded video card, which isn't such a bad thing.

[Parkbandit]

I can certainly tell the difference between a High server like Ardent Dawn and a medium/low server like Dune... I rarely get any major league lags like I did when I went to towns like Ironforge.

It was so damn painful in Ironforge..

[Sente]

I'm running WoW fine on a Poweredge SC420. Upped the RAM to 1 GB and got a Radeon X300. Total cost was just under $600.

If you do go the Poweredge SC420 route, be sure to read up on the tech forums. You have to preform a bit of surgery on the PCI-E slot to get the video card to work. The slot is a 8 bit PCI-E and there aren't any 8 bit as of yet, just 16 bit cards. You can get a 16 bit card to work in there by cutting out two separators inside the slot.

[Edited on 1-3-2005 by Sente]

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Sente
I'm running WoW fine on a Poweredge SC420. Upped the RAM to 1 GB and got a Radeon X300. Total cost was just under $600.

If you do go the Poweredge SC420 route, be sure to read up on the tech forums. You have to preform a bit of surgery on the PCI-E slot to get the video card to work. The slot is a 8 bit PCI-E and there aren't any 8 bit as of yet, just 16 bit cards. You can get a 16 bit card to work in there by cutting out two separators inside the slot.


Good to know where's someone using a poweredge. Yeah, I think I might go the server route even if I can't use my $150 in gift cards. I might just use them to buy (or help buy) a nice flat panel monitor or other equipment. And thanks for the info on the PCI Express.

[Parkbandit]

What's the reasoning behind using a server instead of a regular desktop? Is it the savings or are they somehow more powerful?

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
What's the reasoning behind using a server instead of a regular desktop? Is it the savings or are they somehow more powerful?

Cheaper basically. They don't have to install any operating system on there. Also there is tons of expandability (4 hard drives, anyone?) and better (free) tech help for problems (3Yr Parts + Onsite Labor (Next Business Day))

And No OS = No crappy software/shareware that Dell puts on that I don't want. But I'm still keeping my mind open to some of their desktops - I just don't see the same deals there.

[Varsus]

Dells are the pc of choice for people because they do not know better. They promote alot ect and give out crap tec support.

If you sit down and put the numbers together (assuming that dell only uses new parts (ya right) heh) you can build a better pc from scrap using new name brand parts that all come with there own manufacturer warranty (usually 3 yrs unless you buy OEM) (loosing you that great over seas tec support)

I own a computer repair shop and 90% of my business consists of Dells. They may work great for a lot of people but when it comes down to putting them side by side with other systems the price is not the same

If you do have the willingness to look at other options, I price out a lot of systems off www.newegg.com

The only problem being that if you are not computer savvy you need to find someone to put it together for you.

Just my input.

-Varsus

[Wezas]

Understood, Varsus.

And that's the direction I was heading in the beginning.

My problem is I don't have the time to put my own PC together. Unlike you, this would be the first PC I would have totally put together (motherboard on up). Not to mention the $150 in gift certificates I have.

$574 for a 2.8ghz P4, w/ 512mb DDR (I'll upgrade it further), Internal 3.5" floppy, CD, 3 years Parts & Onsite Labor (next business day), 80gb HDD, Onboard NIC, etc.

Can you price me all the parts/pieces I'd need to make a similar machine from scratch?

Just glancing at Pricewatch:


it's $200 for the CPU/Motherboard combo at that speed - and that's the cheapest one they have.

Memory is cheap, about $50 for a cheap stick of 512 (or 2 256's)?

Floppy, CD-rom, NIC maybe another $50

Case, another $50

HDD, another $60

So that's already about $400 (going by the cheapest cheap end products on Pricewatch) - I went there instead of Newegg because newegg didn't have the CPU/Mobo combos easily findable.

So for an extra $175 I get to not have the hassle of putting it together, and get 3 years parts & on-site support (next day).

It just seems worth it to me.

[Edited on 1-3-2005 by Wezas]

[Anebriated]

I pieced together a computer(no moniter/keyboard/mouse) for roughly $640. It will be my first venture at building my own but I have wanted to try for awhile.

[Sean]

I stopped building my own systems because I found that unless I was carrying components from system upgrade to system upgrade I'd rather have the ease of just buying the system itself.

[Edited on 1-3-2005 by Tijay]

[Varsus]

Ill try and sit down and price one out for you when I get off work.

I can totally relate to your situation and that is why dell is great for so many people. I don't even have time to build new systems and thats what I do.

-Varsus

[Wezas]

Well Dell did what I thought they would - told me I couldn't use my gift cards in their "small business" section.

So now I'm looking possibly using the $150 to purchase something in their electronics department. A new printer or decent chunk out of a flat panel monitor.

[Back]

Go HD LCD. Your eyes/face/brain will thank you later.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Backlash
Go HD LCD. Your eyes/face/brain will thank you later.

But my wallet will kick me in the balls now.

[Marl]

If you live anywhere near GA area there is a new electronics store in Atl that has GREAT deals on stuff like 8x dual dvd burner-$50 bucks.....3.2 p4 cpu and motherboard-$179...... 512mb Ram-50 bucks etc etc I am planning on building one myself from them and priced it around 400 bucks minus moniter

[YancyDC]

The Dell 2001FP monitor is the sexiest thing ever made. You can get them for around $600. You need to see it to believe it.

[AnticorRifling]

Flat panel?

Daddy wants this one Me want flat panel (http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/product_detail/product_detail_view.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@030057264 1.1104860947@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccdladddhlgehggcfngcf kmdfondfgf.0&landing=monitors&category=hp&subcat1= flat_lcd&product_code=P9612A%23ABA&catLevel=3)

[Tsa`ah]

Thanks so much Wezas, I've been crunching and comparing for the last two hours. Fucker.

The SC420 looks too good to pass up and somewhere amid my searching for board specs I came across a x16 to x8 adapter that would negate the need to cut into the slot ... now I have to find it again.

I can't find board specs though. So I'm just throwing this out there.

I could stand this system more if it was bare bones. Just the case, the board, cpu, and the power supply. If they were willing to throw in a pair of 516 dimms for 40 bucks more ... I'd bite that too.

Dell is pseudo reaming on the HD, optical, and floppy options, I guess this is to make up for the super cheap processor and mem upgrades. That and I would feel better with a beefed up power supply, 305 is good ... but 350 is better.

As it stands, you can get a pair of Maxtor 200GB 7200rpm HDs from newegg.com for 228.00, or a pair of 160's for 270.00 from Dell.

I'm thinking about the system with a 19 inch sony lcd from circuit city. Or if that pinch doesn't settle with the wife, a 17 inch lcd from newegg.

[Edited to add the Dell name to the expensive 160MBs.]

[Edited on 1-4-2005 by Tsa`ah]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Flat panel?

Daddy wants this one Me want flat panel (http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/product_detail/product_detail_view.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@030057264 1.1104860947@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccdladddhlgehggcfngcf kmdfondfgf.0&landing=monitors&category=hp&subcat1= flat_lcd&product_code=P9612A%23ABA&catLevel=3)

Oh please bitch.. you're married. You have as much chance of getting that as I do.

:rolleyes:

[AnticorRifling]

Tell me about it.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
I can't find board specs though. So I'm just throwing this out there.


http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/pedge_sc420?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz&~tab=specstab#t abtop

[Tsa`ah]

I meant the board specs ... what brand and model.

[Wezas]

Also, just found this deal if you don't mind generic:

160gb, 7200RPM ATA HDD w/ 8mb - $70 at CompUSA (No rebates) (http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=300018)

[Drew2]

Serial ATA is where it's at.

[Neildo]

I totally agree with Varsus. Building your own computer is the way to go. Saves you money, gives you better warranties, and the computer winds up being a LOT faster.

Actually no, I don't totally agree with him, I disagree with his last part on requiring computer savviness to build a computer. It's so darned simple, you have no idea. Sorry, I don't mean to put you outta business. :p If anyone is interested with slightly tinkering with their system or wanting to build a whole new computer from scratch, there's a magazine out in stands until March by PC Gamer called "The PC Building Bible". It's bright red, hard to miss, and it explains everything so simple that anyone can do it.


I'm running WoW fine on a Poweredge SC420. Upped the RAM to 1 GB and got a Radeon X300. Total cost was just under $600.

If you do go the Poweredge SC420 route, be sure to read up on the tech forums. You have to preform a bit of surgery on the PCI-E slot to get the video card to work. The slot is a 8 bit PCI-E and there aren't any 8 bit as of yet, just 16 bit cards. You can get a 16 bit card to work in there by cutting out two separators inside the slot.

$600 for all that? Man, you could have built a system way more powerful for that price. Not only that, but this surgery you have to perform to make that thing work will void your warranty, and get this, that involves more work and is more dangerous to the parts than building a system from scratch. If you had to do all that yourself to get your graphics card to work, you'll have no problem whatsoever in building a machine from scratch.


My problem is I don't have the time to put my own PC together.

Other than having to wait for the computer parts, which if you buy from Newegg will arrive in 2-4 days, it only takes a couple hours to put a system together. And most of the time is having to wait back and do nothing while Windows and all your drivers get installed automatically. It's simple, really.


Go HD LCD. Your eyes/face/brain will thank you later

Make sure it has a 12ms response time though. These are the little things that people don’t notice. Most LCDs have a 25ms response time and when playing games, watching movies, or doing other things that have a lot of scrolling, motion, etc, it’ll make things blur a lot while in motion. Now that’ll add eye/face/brain strain, heh.


The Dell 2001FP monitor is the sexiest thing ever made. You can get them for around $600. You need to see it to believe it.

It looks nice, but there’s some things that need to be taken into consideration when it comes to bigger monitors. That thing is a 20” widescreen which means it’ll have a high ass resolution of 1600x1200. Things are nice and sharp, but you have to keep in mind that the higher the resolution, the harder it is on your system. This means you’ll need an expensive graphics card ($400-500 range) and nice cpu and all that to make the thing run well so it’s not slow and choppy. That LCD has a 16ms response time though and that’s cool as it’s not the normal 25ms so no noticable blurring effects will happen.

I bought a nice Phillips 19” (1280x1024 resolution) LCD last month and it has the magical 12ms response time.. it was $430 at the time. I’d recommend that if anyone is in the market for one.


$574 for a 2.8ghz P4, w/ 512mb DDR (I'll upgrade it further), Internal 3.5" floppy, CD, 3 years Parts & Onsite Labor (next business day), 80gb HDD, Onboard NIC, etc.

Can you price me all the parts/pieces I'd need to make a similar machine from scratch?

Just glancing at Pricewatch:

Newegg and Monarchcomputer are the two best sites to buy from. I usually buy from Newegg but right now I’d buy from Monarchcomputer right now if I were you. Newegg has been doing way too much advertising lately which is making the prices of everything go up a more due to supply and demand.

Now, do you want a system build using those exact specs or would you rather have a better system for around the same price? And by better, I mean that’ll blow that one away. And do you also have any parts you have that could go into the new system only to save money to buy even better stuff. If not, I can buy all cheap stuff on par that you would get with places like Dell. The thing with building your own system is that the more you spend, the more you save. Spending $20 extra on a part is nothing but that can mean a huge jump in item quality and speed, and that would cost a lot more if someone like Dell was using those parts.

AMD 64 3000+ Socket 939 90nm, $140 (3000+ is faster than a P4 3.0, which are both faster than your P4 2.8 and then the 939 90nm which is a Winchester core is also faster than similar 3000+ CPUs. So that’s a triple leap right there)

MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum nForce3 Ultra, $140 (darn price has gone up since these are real popular. I could pick a cheaper mobo but I’d recommend this as it’s a real good one)

Floppy, doesn’t really matter what kind you get since they’re basically obsolete. They cost around $5.

CD-ROM, doesn’t really matter what kind you get either. They’re around $15-20. You didn’t mention if you wanted a burner, DVD player, and whatnot. If you want all of the above, you can get a Sony combo drive, cd reader/writing that also reads DVDs for around $30-35.

RAM, you list 512mb, but I recommend a gig. And I’d usually recommend some OCZ or other brand since it’s good for overclocking to make your system even faster than what it’ll be, but I’ll just choose some regular value pack stuff that is good for what you’ll use it for. You can get two sticks of 512mb Cosair value RAM (PC-3200 DDR) for around $145.

Hard Drive, since you’re watching your budget I can’t recommend the fast 10,000 RPM SATA Raptors so I’ll have to pick something else. You have 80 gigs listed so I’ll grab one of those and a western digital one is $80 for a serial-ata. That’s the minimum connection you should get these days as they’re a lot faster and the cord connectors aren’t those wide ass grey IDE cables anymore. So score more speed here too.

Since you won’t be doing any overclocking or serious gaming, your system ought to be pretty cool so can just use the stock heatsink and fan that comes with your CPU. It also comes with some thermal paste applied so you don’t need to buy some arctic 5 to keep it even cooler. If you wanted to get some anyways, it’s like $12.

Well so far the price is at $530, leaving $44 left to buy a case if you’re needing a new one. The one that would come with your computer would be really crappy too. It’d only have two fans, wouldn’t have good airflow circulation, and it’d keep your system real hot because of that. Oh, and it’d have a crappy power supply too which wouldn’t provide much power so you’d have the occassional reboot, blue screen of death, or other common problem which is usually not because of Windows but because of a weak power supply. I’d recommend no less than 400 watts and make sure it has more than two fans to have good circulation. That would cost around $70-80, but I’d go out and get a grab something that’s at least $100. Make it a real good case and then you’d be able to use it forever. On my gaming rig I paid $160 for mine but it’s 500 watts (for future graphic cards), has like 6 fans, a fan speed control, and a CPU and HD temp display. The kinda stuff Dell and all them will never have, not even on their latest systems made for gaming.

So let’s break the bank with that $75 case and it brings your total to $605. That’s $31 more than the other system, but it could be lower if I chose other less expensive parts which would still be faster than the other system you have in mind. Not to mention if you use your old hard drive, that’ll save $80 too. Also as for tax, if you buy out of state from some of these places, you won’t incur any tax so you only have to pay for shipping which they also have lots of cool deals to get free shipping so that’s a bonus also. But yeah, all your stuff is a lot faster, every single part of it for around the same price as that other system.

The only thing left to get is a graphics card (which the other system doesn’t come with either) and for that system I’d recommend the Nvidia 6600 GT as it’s the best bang for the buck for now. It’s $200 but you’ll be able to play any game, even the most demanding games on that system with no trouble whatsoever. And since you said you’d be upgrading the RAM on that other P4 system, that money can go towards the graphics card, or if ya shop around for those parts, you can save money there as well. Oh yeah, and with those parts, you will still be able to overclock your system a tad. With that motherboard, it comes with a program that lets you easily do it (it can change the settings for you automatically). You can overclock it at least 5% without having to buy a better heatsink, fan, thermal paste, or anything else since you have the coolest (cold) processor out there (and if you wanna buy that stuff later, a good heatsink is around $40-60, the thermal paste is $12, and a tornado fan is $10). AMD processors are a lot cooler than Pentiums which mean they can be overclocked better but the Winchester core you’re getting is the coolest of all AMD cores.

Is all that okay with ya?

- N

[Back]

Wow, thats a lot of work. Do you actually put all this shit together yourself? What I mean is, did you just pick this shit out and some dude put it together for you? Or did you actually put all this together yourself with your sodering iron?

[Neildo]

Wow, thats a lot of work. Do you actually put all this shit together yourself? What I mean is, did you just pick this shit out and some dude put it together for you? Or did you actually put all this together yourself with your sodering iron?

Um, heh, was that to the person tweaking their Dell computer to run their graphics card or in general to building a computer?

If it's in regards to building a computer, heh, the only tool needed is a screwdriver. We don't buy chips and build a motherboard from scratch or anything like that, lol. It's just like a monitor or keyboard in that you buy a part and plug it in except for the stuff in the case, we plug it inside. Or better yet, like building a car or a bike. You just buy all the parts and put em together.

For the motherboard, you just screw it into the case. For the CPU, you slide the pins where it's supposed to go. Then you put a heatsink on top of it and fan on top of that. For the graphics card, it just slides into a slot in the motherboard. Then the hard drive, you slide it into it's own area in the case and plug a cord into the hard drive and then into the motherboard and take a cord from the power supply and plug it into the hard drive too. For the CD-ROM and floppy, you slide it into place like the hard drive and plug cords into those spots and then into the motherboard as well. That's it. It's as simple as that.

People get scared when having to configure things when you first turn it on too. It's simple. The BIOS these days automatically detects everything so you shouldn't have to do anything. Once it's powered on, you get a command prompt, then just pop in the Windows CD and install it as usual. Then any CDs that came with your graphics card or other components, you pop them in and install those too. That's it. Easy, eh?

The only hard part, if you want to call it that, is knowing what components to buy. All you have to do is make sure to look at the type of socket your motherboard is and then make sure your CPU is the same socket and if it's made for Intel or AMD (I suggest AMD as they're less expensive and they're the fastest processors for gaming. Intel is for things like graphic design and more business situated things kind of how PCs vs Macs are). For RAM, you make sure the speed matches the motherboard which the specs are on the motherboard so that’s easy. For the graphics card, you just make sure you have the right type of slot, PCI, AGP, or PCI-Express. For the Hard Drive, you look at your motherboard again and see what kind of slots it has available. It can either be an IDE (the fat grey cable) or the newer S-ATA cable. The motherboard is what everything connects into. That’s the most important part. Once you know what type of motherboard you have, you’ll know what everything else has to be to match up to it. And when trying to find components that match up with certain numbers, if you go to a place like Newegg.com, they have a search function where you can be totally specific and it'll show you what types of items fit that criteria.

And as far as brand names are concerned, the only difference is quality. Some brands may make faster RAM, a faster graphics card, and that’s about it. That’s the easy explination for all that anyways.

- N


[Edited on 1/8/05 by Neildo]