Does anyone bolt with 705?

[Orthin]

Was thinking about spell aiming and saw 705 can be bolted and was curious if anyone bolts with it, if they like to bolt with it and is it effective? Got a 4x acuity staff and am COL so might be useful but I feel like the CS version probably trumps it

[Taernath]

The DFs and AvDs are exactly the same as Minor Acid.

Crit tables are very similar too, but non-fatal Disintegrate criticals seem to get higher stuns, but narrower margins, if that makes sense. Ex. a rank 5 eye crit is a 10 round stun for disintegrate, but a 7 round stun for acid, while a rank 2 is no stun for disintegrate, but a 1 round stun for acid.

[Maerit]

The primary reason sorcerers tend to bolt less is due to AS. 513 is a big deal. Sorcerers can do something similar with Star Curse, but way more tedious to manage.

[caelric]

Much as I love the idea of a bolting sorc, it just not compare well to a wizard bolting, or to using CS spells. It's perfectly viable, but nowhere near optimal.

[rolfard]

The bolts are very helpful if you consider how many hunting areas are avoided by sorcerers for TD reasons. I remember hunting the sheruvian temple watching my like-level friends who were rogues and wizards taking out everything including uphunting the harbingers, which I had to avoid because they were simply unwardable for me.

[Orthin]

I was curious to see if it was worth the 20 necro for the added flavor or if it adds disablers. I figured with the AS boost from COL and flares it might be a nice change for casting on certain targets but it sounds like overall the CS spells are the bread winners.

[Orthin]

The bolts are very helpful if you consider how many hunting areas are avoided by sorcerers for TD reasons. I remember hunting the sheruvian temple watching my like-level friends who were rogues and wizards taking out everything including uphunting the harbingers, which I had to avoid because they were simply unwardable for me.

Ah so may be worth just hanging on to for those situations. Expensive back-up plan TP wise but I think worth it, and will break up the tedium of 702 4 Life

[Taernath]

Ah so may be worth just hanging on to for those situations. Expensive back-up plan TP wise but I think worth it, and will break up the tedium of 702 4 Life

Necro lore and spell aim are extremely useful for sorcerers beyond just 705.

[Nathala Crane]

As my relatively low level sorc, I like having the option of bolting and/or wizard wands when creature TDs/CvA make things difficult. It's especially useful in warcamps, since it means I can ewave and capitalize on prone DS penalties via Balefire and other ball spells.

[Orthin]

yeah aiming is legit for 708 correct? Because if you don't 2x it isn't reliable?

[Maerit]

I've gone most of the last 3 years on my sorcerer with zero spell aim, and frankly it hasn't been missed. You can accomplish everything 708 does with 709 or 703. Since I like loot, I never use 720 outside of the arena.

It's more of a flavor skill for sorcs. The TPs spent on SA could be spent on more sorcerer spell ranks to up your CS. Never forget about 715 to reduce TD of your targets. Bolting a pure with high TD is probably slower than 715 + 719. You won't have this problem early on when mana is tight because creatures rarely have good TD until the mid 30s. Plus, you get TD pushdown with 703, so for casters you just 703, 715, 719. For squares, 709, 702/711/705... Whatever you prefer.

That's not to say SA is useless, but you could easily spend the points elsewhere.

[khorpulent]

Yeah, the only real practical use for SA is focused implosion. Why bother with plinking away with bolts or cursing stuff when you can just implode it? Disintegrate bolt is pretty uninspiring, and while 713 with a demon is neat, it's really just a party trick in my experience. I guess maybe you could make a case for being able to use wizard wands with a low-level sorc, but it seems like 702 is cheap and effective enough that I've never had mana issues even with lower-level sorcs. My first sorc did SA up until 75 or so, but I got rid of it and didn't regret it at all. I trained it back at like 9m exp. I never even bothered with the next sorc I made and it has worked out great.

I don't want to actually do the math to back this assertion up, but I would guess that wizards have more DS in offensive stance. I actually tried bolting with one of my sorcs for a while after 713 came out, but I kept getting my ass kicked when I got caught in offensive.

[nindon]

Personally, I don't use 705 as either a CS or a bolt spell when I am hunting alone, which is usually the case. It's alright in a group.

On the issue of Sorcerers bolting generally, I am a big fan of Balefire. I use it on bandits, on the second floor of Nelemar (but not usually on greater water elementals) and especially in the Elemental Confluence. In the Confluence, one shot of 702 followed by one shot of 713 usually kills an elemental. Including the demon flare (imp, of course), that combination costs 17 mana. It's the right combination of mana and speed. I also use web bolt on bandits and on some critters in Nelemar.

When using bolt spells in the Confluence or Nelemar, I usually use some bolt AS bonus spells from scrolls (307, 211, 513 and/or 215). I don't bother with those outside spells when hunting bandits.

[Stolis]

I've gone most of the last 3 years on my sorcerer with zero spell aim, and frankly it hasn't been missed. You can accomplish everything 708 does with 709 or 703. Since I like loot, I never use 720 outside of the arena.

Where SA has saved my butt is aiming limb disruption. Hard for some stuff to Cman you when they're missing a limb required for it. I'd love to have the higher CS with the 2020 extra TP's, but mine CS is high enough for now where I just prefer the safety net.

[Maerit]

Where SA has saved my butt is aiming limb disruption. Hard for some stuff to Cman you when they're missing a limb required for it. I'd love to have the higher CS with the 2020 extra TP's, but mine CS is high enough for now where I just prefer the safety net.

What is limb disruption doing for you that 709 isnt? Since 709 was changed to grasp of the grave, it's incredibly powerful at keeping targets locked down. Yes, 708 is a nice spell, but the cost of spell aim pre-cap doesn't seem to justify sacrificing lore or sorcerer spell ranks for a utility that's just as easily provided by 709 and 703.

[Allereli]

What is limb disruption doing for you that 709 isnt? Since 709 was changed to grasp of the grave, it's incredibly powerful at keeping targets locked down. Yes, 708 is a nice spell, but the cost of spell aim pre-cap doesn't seem to justify sacrificing lore or sorcerer spell ranks for a utility that's just as easily provided by 709 and 703.

I find 708 to be much more reliable than 709. in a one-on-one situation, I pick 708 unless there are no limbs to aim at

[drauz]

I find 708 to be much more reliable than 709. in a one-on-one situation, I pick 708 unless there are no limbs to aim at

Or trolls with their damn regeneration.

[Xred]

I just came back to gs in November after leaving gs in 1999 so I can't say much beyond my current experience. If I remember correctly focused maelstrom came out when I was level 10, so in gsiii I never got spell aim.

When I came back at level 80 or so I had two fixskills. I first fixskilled into a spell aim build, and hunted in the aqueduct in otf. I found bolting less effective, dangerous and tricky. I could only do damage if the monster was on the ground stunned. It was useful with dangerous monster bounties as my implode was quite strong. However, I soon did the math and realized how much this rare case of needing focused implode was. Further, spell aim comes at a large opportunity cost. Each level that you 2x in spell aim is 15 points. At 10 levels this is 150 points and about two and a half spells. So at 80 this was about 20 spells I could add to my CS or about... what 15 or so CS give or take. Because 99% of the casts I made were CS based and the opportunity cost of my CS, I decided to drop spellcaim and from level 80 to past cap.

That being said for fun and bandits, mostly I picked up spell aim. I estimate I pick up 10-15% of my exp from bandit runs. This is why I got spell aim. So many players get aggressive with bandits and kill them before I get a hit in so I can learn. I can 709 the bandits down, and that gives me task credit but I don't learn. Xred is currently 1x and can 709 or 117 then cast 713 baelfire, to get the splash damage. The point is not to do so much damage in bandits so everyone gets a tap so. Baelfire works nicely for that. And now I fry every time in bandits. This 1x costs 505 points or about... 2 or 3 CS. I think it's worth it for the fun. Plus with the 1x spell aim my focused implode is decent.

Summery: wait until post cap for spell aim, where you can have fun with it and the opportunity cost is low.

[Maerit]

I find 708 to be much more reliable than 709. in a one-on-one situation, I pick 708 unless there are no limbs to aim at

That's very interesting since 708 requires a 121+ end roll to severe a limb where 709 is a hidden formula based on necro lore and sorcerer spell ranks. I found, once I dumped SA and made sure I was 1x in necro and at least level +21 in sorc ranks, 709 pretty much took anything down.

[Allereli]

That's very interesting since 708 requires a 121+ end roll to severe a limb where 709 is a hidden formula based on necro lore and sorcerer spell ranks. I found, once I dumped SA and made sure I was 1x in necro and at least level +21 in sorc ranks, 709 pretty much took anything down.

well 709 wasn't around pre-cap for me. but precap I did have about 1x in necro, 2x spell aim, but not +21 in spell ranks, because diversification. I was also about 2.5x total in lores before cap with skinning skills. Now with 105 necro ranks I hunt mostly on the 2nd floor of nelemar where creatures (eg GWEs/sentries) are often over level 100. Obv. I'm not using 708 on those, but 709 does fail quite a bit on the initial cast. There are many ways to do things, do what you find fun. I found aimed 708 to be extremely fun and effective, especially on n'ecare in the Rift

[Stolis]

What is limb disruption doing for you that 709 isnt? Since 709 was changed to grasp of the grave, it's incredibly powerful at keeping targets locked down. Yes, 708 is a nice spell, but the cost of spell aim pre-cap doesn't seem to justify sacrificing lore or sorcerer spell ranks for a utility that's just as easily provided by 709 and 703.

709 is awesome, I use it too in swarms. 708 though keeps from having a maneuver attack from happening. Can't blow a fear horn, disarm, charge, etc. 709 does some of that, but it doesn't keep them down for very long.

[khorpulent]

In my experience, 709 takes down pretty much everything, even creatures that are 10+ levels above me. When my sorc hit 90 and could start doing Reim and bandit runs with my capped characters, I noticed that 709 would still hit creatures that I didn't have any hope of warding. This is likely because, like most sensible sorcs, I am heavily overtrained in sorc circle ranks (60+), so I am able to easily overcome a big level difference. While I did use 708 a bit before 709 was updated, the only real reason I see for it now is if I want to toy with something and blow off all its limbs for fun. I guess it could be useful in a situation where you're trying to avoid knocking down passersby.

But even one-on-one, I still prefer 709 to anything else. Not only will it knock down creatures more reliably than any other spell in the game, the arms will also take down any other creatures that stray into the room. The only drawback, of course, is that it knocks down players too.

[Maerit]

When hunting the bowels, 709 and I can stay in swarms easily. While hunting bandits, I can solo bandit bounties (sorcerer is in the 90s now) with minimal injuries just because I keep 709 going in the rooms where I am hunting the bandits. 709 was not eligible in the Arena!! That's ok, it's 1 at a time, so I just 717 them and they either run away, or they are stunned forever (717 will stun things that are immune to stuns as well).

In the EG dungeon, I was able to go with level 100+ groups at level 85 this past EG, and my 709 not only got me fried every single run, but gave me credit for the run as well. 709 does deal damage, and it's sufficient damage to generate XP from kills (especially if your group is fighting higher level critters).

I'm not premium, so I don't Reim, but 708 was not traditionally great against undead. I think you'd have to use 704 first to limb (708) non-corp, while 709 will generally pull down non-flying creatures with just one cast.

It is harder to use 709 in Warcamps due to the shroud, but I try not to warcamp on my sorcerer since it's just a death trap most of the time.

I am 40+ over my level in sorcerer ranks now in the early 90s. If I picked up spell aim, I would have to drop about 20 ranks in sorcerer spells to get 2x in spell aim, which drops my CS noticeably and reduces the power of 709 and other spells.

Everyone should enjoy playing their character however they want! I personally see no reason to elevate the mechanical benefits of 708 when the reality is that this profession comes equipped with numerous abilities, that don't rely on spell aiming, which accomplish the same or similar effects. If you pick up spell aiming for mechanical reasons, it should be noted that 708 is not the best reason - 720 is the best reason.

Also, you can still use 708 without AIM to randomly blow off limbs and your SA won't matter. It's just a 50% chance to hit a leg, and 25% chance to hit the right arm. You have a 25% chance to hit the useless left arm.