DR Vault Armor and Weapons - HCP/HCW 6x

[Gizmo]

These items now act as High End Shop Items.

What this means is, the price will rise after every purchase of said items...similar to those items in the high end shop

[SonoftheNorth]

Yup I just saw the brig is at 21k bs now.

[Amerek]

I really dislike this mechanic in general.

[Thilvynn]

Sigh...needed 7k more scrip to grab me a sword and armor...there really isn't a point to DR for me anymore.

[SonoftheNorth]

Well he could've closed the shop 3 days ago then even more people would be complaining.

[Taernath]

Yup I just saw the brig is at 21k bs now.

How many did you purchase?

[SonoftheNorth]

How many did you purchase?

I bought my stuff the first day for 12.5k instead of selling off my scrip.

[Tyronebiggums]

they needed to just pick something, and live with it. Flip flopping like this wasn't the wisest idea.

[Maerit]

After over 100 of the 6x items in the shop sold in 3 days, it made sense that it had to be stemmed somehow.

There's been a lot of failures in DR for QC of items. First run I went to had 4x/4x runestaves for 250BS. Next run they were 2500BS.

[Taernath]

So is it closed now or what?

[Nathala Crane]

This is a fucking circus at this point.


So is it closed now or what?

>go struc
Some unseen force is preventing you from doing that.

Yup.

[Maerit]

So is it closed now or what?

It was changed to be like the high-end shop, so the items increase in price as they sell. Lowest threshold was being used, but most stuff is over 20k BS now.

Oh... closed too apparently

[drauz]

http://i.imgur.com/PR5bk6J.gif

[Androidpk]

it made sense that it had to be stemmed somehow

why does it make sense?

[Nathala Crane]

http://i.imgur.com/PR5bk6J.gif

Pretty fucking much. This, along with the gatcha/cell phone pricing model they've been going with for a lot of the paid quests? It's starting to grate.

[Taernath]

It was changed to be like the high-end shop, so the items increase in price as they sell. Lowest threshold was being used, but most stuff is over 20k BS now.

Oh... closed too apparently

Is the 20k+ BS after purchasing an item or not? I bought something at 15k, just wondering what the scaling is now.

[Fortybox]

And bloodscrip goes.....


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/assets/150109112203-line-graph-ground-breaking-1024x576.png

[Donquix]

why does it make sense?

did you think ~12m, or 15m for that mater, market value. Or ~6m and a few hours of your time (for which you also get a ton of exp and other hopper items) if you do the quest yourself seems like appropriate pricing for 6x HCW/HCP gear? I mean look at everyone freaking out and falling over themselves to to get in on it because they all know it's an aberrant deal.

It was the same thing when they fixed the spider bags. Like really guys...you thought that was intended? really? No, you knew it was bs. (pun)

The only truly fucked up thing here is how long it took them to fix it. Which is total bait and switch getting people to spend fucking thousands upon thousands on jars before fixing it. Great for the people that got in on it before it was fixed, especially at 12k, but how many people are currently working their way up explicitly to get the 15k for these items that now have their fuck all to show for it? Even if the bloodscrip market holds and they can sell that scrip, etc., it was sold under some fucked up pretense.

[Androidpk]

did you think ~12m, or 15m for that mater, market value. Or ~6m and a few hours of your time (for which you also get a ton of exp and other hopper items) if you do the quest yourself seems like appropriate pricing for 6x HCW/HCP gear? I mean look at everyone freaking out and falling over themselves to to get in on it because they all know it's an aberrant deal.

It was the same thing when they fixed the spider bags. Like really guys...you thought that was intended? really? No, you knew it was bs. (pun)

The only truly fucked up thing here is how long it took them to fix it. Which is total bait and switch getting people to spend fucking thousands upon thousands on jars before fixing it. Great for the people that got in on it before it was fixed, especially at 12k, but how many people are currently working their way up explicitly to get the 15k for these items that now have their fuck all to show for it? Even if the bloodscrip market holds and they can sell that scrip, etc., it was sold under some fucked up pretense.

I don't consider 6x HCW/HCP all that OP.

[drauz]

did you think ~12m, or 15m for that mater, market value. Or ~6m and a few hours of your time (for which you also get a ton of exp and other hopper items) if you do the quest yourself seems like appropriate pricing for 6x HCW/HCP gear? I mean look at everyone freaking out and falling over themselves to to get in on it because they all know it's an aberrant deal.

It was the same thing when they fixed the spider bags. Like really guys...you thought that was intended? really? No, you knew it was bs. (pun)

The only truly fucked up thing here is how long it took them to fix it. Which is total bait and switch getting people to spend fucking thousands upon thousands on jars before fixing it. Great for the people that got in on it before it was fixed, especially at 12k, but how many people are currently working their way up explicitly to get the 15k for these items that now have their fuck all to show for it? Even if the bloodscrip market holds and they can sell that scrip, etc., it was sold under some fucked up pretense.

Even after Wyrom was just talking about how they carefully consider the prices? It is no secret that Simu has no idea how to properly price their items. This time people thought they underpriced them instead of their usual WAY overpricing things.

They should open it back up and offer everything at the original price for 24 hrs and then put in this is terrible pricing scheme. They would also need multiple forum posts and e-mail saying exactly what is going to happen.

[Taernath]

I don't consider 6x HCW/HCP all that OP.

I'm not a merchantninja but 6x gear, and HCP/W gear is fairly rare off-the-shelf separately, let alone combined.

[Androidpk]

Even after Wyrom was just talking about how they carefully consider the prices? It is no secret that Simu has no idea how to properly price their items. This time people thought they underpriced them instead of their usual WAY overpricing things.

They should open it back up and offer everything at the original price for 24 hrs and then put in this is terrible pricing scheme. They would also need multiple forum posts and e-mail saying exactly what is going to happen.

It's either serial incompetence or bait & switch.

[Androidpk]

I'm not a merchantninja but 6x gear, and HCP/W gear is fairly rare off-the-shelf separately, let alone combined.

I know it's rare to be sold off the shelf but I still don't think it's OP.

[SonoftheNorth]

[LNet]-GSIV:Malyrion: "I demand a mickey mantle for the price it cost in 19522222222222" (01:31:18)



Basically sums up this shop.

[drauz]

I'm not a merchantninja but 6x gear, and HCP/W gear is fairly rare off-the-shelf separately, let alone combined.

I mean if you consider it "off the shelf".. I don't consider 6x? greater elemental flares or 6x/6x t4 nervestaves as off the shelf but they were sold the same way.

[Donquix]

I know it's rare to be sold off the shelf but I still don't think it's OP.

For one, 6x HCP/HCW is really, really good. It's obviously not the best in the game, but it's really damn good. most other shit with fun flares and scripted features and all that is more exciting...but HCW and HCP just quietly kill shit and save your life. They're the blue collar workhorses of good gear. On what is essentially 1 off max enchant, realistically, for most people.

That aside, it's not about being op. It's about being priced, conservatively, 10m under value. Even if you got nothing but the HCP/HCW. But you also get on average what...2-3m from random treasure wins? Even if you get a 35k pawn item from every run for a book of 50 tickets that's 1.75m. Not even accounting for the potential to get items worth a few hundred k to 1m+ on the lucky side.

Previous mass sold things like fel hafters and FGB sit around 10m. An extra 2 enchants, available in nearly every desirable base, etc. etc.

So like you said: gross incompetence or obvious bait and switch.

[Donquix]

I mean if you consider it "off the shelf".. I don't consider 6x? greater elemental flares or 6x/6x t4 nervestaves as off the shelf but they were sold the same way.

the greater elemental flares are fun, but they aren't even kind close to being as universally good as straight weighting / padding. They also sold for 5-8k more scrip.

The runestaff likewise sold for at least 5k more scrip (and honestly i think is still a good deal at 20k)

[SonoftheNorth]

Fel hafters didn't sell for 10m off the shelf though.

[Donquix]

Fel hafters didn't sell for 10m off the shelf though.

It's an example of market value for that caliber of item now. I realize all the previous good off the shelf items sold for, often times hilariously so, less than the player market value. Most of those occurrences were ridiculous fuckups themselves.

Honestly pricing is way out of whack for a lot of items, in both directions, at DR.

Spider bag at 15k, lol 200k IW flares come to mind as things priced too high.

[SashaFierce]

So mad at myself for not spending all the bloodscripz on buying everything in this shop.

[drauz]

the greater elemental flares are fun, but they aren't even kind close to being as universally good as straight weighting / padding. They also sold for 5-8k more scrip.

The runestaff likewise sold for at least 5k more scrip (and honestly i think is still a good deal at 20k)

Um... ok .... Crit weighting sounds awesome on a runestaff but....

The point wasn't to consider which item is the best thing sold at DR. It was to show that the items sold here aren't the usual merchant items.

[Taernath]

I mean if you consider it "off the shelf".. I don't consider 6x? greater elemental flares or 6x/6x t4 nervestaves as off the shelf but they were sold the same way.

Off the shelf mean you can buy it as much as you want with no merchant interaction. I'd imagine if hundreds of those things start going out they'll be re-evaluated too.

There's some serious power creep going on with DR.

[SonoftheNorth]

I think the most asinine thing is people who didn't buy the item deciding it should be converted to 6x swcw for everyone.

[SonoftheNorth]

SIMU-WYROM

Okay, here is the deal with the shop. Prices are reset. They are going to scale much more slowly. I will monitor sales over the week and see how it goes.

Keep in mind, that with this gear being so cheap, buying tons of it for resale may not be a wise decision. I don't see the market bouncing back on these specific sets. So try to only buy what you need.

I'll be reopening the shop in a few moments.

[SashaFierce]

They scale at 1% for every 5 sold (per object)

[Ghost]

My first DR, but to me this event felt very profitable with tons of goodies and awesome deals. Not sure if this is norm or it's just special this time around.

You don't think this is some kind of prelude to them further nerfing crit weighting padding by adding crit weight padding to critters or something.

[Nephelem]

They should have reclaimed the original 12 items that went out, refunded script and if neccesary the real life cash, and told people to eat a dick when they threatened to quit. Instead they buckled and kept them in. Panic mode kicked in when they saw lockers filling with them and realized they just annihilated the low/mid tier of weapons and armor. So they switch to scaling, people start fucking crying again, and they fold a second time. This was a massive fuck up.

[drauz]

My first DR, but to me this event felt very profitable with tons of goodies and awesome deals. Not sure if this is norm or it's just special this time around.

You don't think this is some kind of prelude to them further nerfing crit weighting padding by adding crit weight padding to critters or something.

Creatures have had padding for a long time already...

[Warriorbird]

Seems like a good result, all told. And I don't have one person moving up the prices on the more realistic deal by 1500 BS.

[ArchSenex]

People's response to this on the forum boggles my mind. If spending 20-50 dollars on Simucoins means that you're entitled to super-awesome treatment, I'm pretty sure there's a lot of us who should be getting daily catered meals and cell phone numbers to every GM.

[Warriorbird]

People's response to this on the forum boggles my mind. If spending 20-50 dollars on Simucoins means that you're entitled to super-awesome treatment, I'm pretty sure there's a lot of us who should be getting daily catered meals and cell phone numbers to every GM.

Seemed pretty mild to me. People get touchier about what is basically cash purchases from a company that involves time/effort to acquire.

[drauz]

People's response to this on the forum boggles my mind. If spending 20-50 dollars on Simucoins means that you're entitled to super-awesome treatment, I'm pretty sure there's a lot of us who should be getting daily catered meals and cell phone numbers to every GM.

You mean when people bought simucoins because they wanted a specific item. Then Simu said there was a change and there would be no other changes. Then they said there were more changes and the price would scale upwards. So the people who bought enough to cover the item they wanted now had to buy more and more to get the item they wanted from the start.

Its not about entitlement, its about getting what is promised.

Imagine you went to buy a car, they tell you a price and you go get financing. When you are back at the dealership they tell you the price has risen since there was a temporary demand on that car. You now have to get financing for the extra amount. You would be pissed/annoyed. DR is obviously on a smaller scale (well some people do drop enough for a used car on DR) but it holds true.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsW9MlYu31g

[Kronius]

You mean when people bought simucoins because they wanted a specific item. Then Simu said there was a change and there would be no other changes. Then they said there were more changes and the price would scale upwards. So they people who bought enough to cover the item they wanted now had to buy more to get the item they wanted from the start.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsW9MlYu31g

Yeah, so, the credibility goes out the window when you say, "This is what we're doing, we're not changing it again..." so people set down a specific path, right wrong or indifferent... and then you flip the scrip (see what I did there) again. Ehh, what a CF.

[ArchSenex]

Imagine you went to buy a car, they tell you a price and you go get financing. When you are back at the dealership they tell you the price has risen since there was a temporary demand on that car. You now have to get financing for the extra amount. You would be pissed/annoyed. DR is obviously on a smaller scale (well some people do drop enough for a used car on DR) but it holds true.



Actually, your example is an interesting choice, because it says that people should be prepared for this eventuality based on what happens in the real world. When buying a car or house, this CAN happen, and until you actually make the sale, it is possible that the price of something goes up.

What people should be upset about isn't that that script prices change, it's the fact that they shouldn't be offering an intermediary currency. If you want to have your purchases be stable Dollars to items, then they should be petitioning that Duskruin items should just be cash shop items. These Items should just cost $45 or something. They purchased a virtual currency, with which they intended to attempt to earn a second virtual currency, to then buy the item.

Hence, there's now three opportunities for the price to rise on you between plan and execution. Simucoins could get more expensive. Bloodscip could become harder to get (and, amusingly, is inconsistently easy to get. People who can get 250 per run get it way cheaper than people running the sewers). The items could change prices.

[Ghost]

one thing is for certain. Gemstone is finally now aptly named, it's a merchanting game with the fantasy rpg part playing a secondary role. Meh, still buying 100+ shovels in the next EG lol.

[ArchSenex]

one thing is for certain. Gemstone is finally now aptly named, it's a merchanting game with the fantasy rpg part playing a secondary role. Meh, still buying 100+ shovels in the next EG lol.

Oh yeah. Most games try to avoid RMT, but Gemstone has been a pure cash economy for twenty+ years. The whole silvers thing is just a side currency. Any other game I've played, the forums would be filled with people attacking those complaining about the price increase for being a bunch of "Pay 2 Win assholes" who should do things I won't even mention on THIS forum.

[drauz]

Actually, your example is an interesting choice, because it says that people should be prepared for this eventuality based on what happens in the real world. When buying a car or house, this CAN happen, and until you actually make the sale, it is possible that the price of something goes up.

No, the price of a house or car doesn't fluctuate like that.

[Neveragain]

Cash sales is why Gemstone can't have nice things.

[Ghost]

Cash sales is why Gemstone can't have nice things.

also probably the only thing that's keeping the game alive.

[Eodus]

Clearly the correct choice was made. Economically speaking, allowing this gear to continue flowing at the price they were going for would have significantly affected the world economy. In fact, did. Or will. Although I'm not sure how many went out, I know it was a lot.

This whole "do the right thing and let me keep raping you, Simu" argument has many holes, and you know damn well it does. Just because she wore a short skirt to DR that day doesn't make it okay.

[chalion]

Clearly the correct choice was made. Economically speaking, allowing this gear to continue flowing at the price they were going for would have significantly affected the world economy. In fact, did. Or will. Although I'm not sure how many went out, I know it was a lot.

This whole "do the right thing and let me keep raping you, Simu" argument has many holes, and you know damn well it does. Just because she wore a short skirt to DR that day doesn't make it okay.

The problem is they had a chance to "set it right" once pretty early. At one point only 12 items went out for sale. Instead of doing what was best for game balance they adjusted the price upwards just a bit and allowed sales again. At that point "consent" in your analogy was given.

[Neveragain]

also probably the only thing that's keeping the game alive.

Hard to say, though it's very obvious that the cash market dictates game policy. That's fucking sad.

[Ghost]

Clearly the correct choice was made. Economically speaking, allowing this gear to continue flowing at the price they were going for would have significantly affected the world economy. In fact, did. Or will. Although I'm not sure how many went out, I know it was a lot.

This whole "do the right thing and let me keep raping you, Simu" argument has many holes, and you know damn well it does. Just because she wore a short skirt to DR that day doesn't make it okay.

More afraid about any "insider shenanigans" that happens with situations like this. Not saying it did, but even a casual review of the price list would've caught the mispricing, which lends me to think that low-mid management could or might've set something up for some easy money. Just doesn't make a lick of sense that someone didn't sit there and and think wait a minute, 6x Heavy gear going for this ridiculous price?! over a 3 day period, just a bit fishy.

[Eodus]

The problem is they had a chance to "set it right" once pretty early. At one point only 12 items went out for sale. Instead of doing what was best for game balance they adjusted the price upwards just a bit and allowed sales again. At that point "consent" in your analogy was given.

Yeah, but using the Tea analogy for sexual consent, logic would dictate that as soon as I decide I don't want more tea, it is my right to refuse further tea.

For those not aware this is actually a thing:
https://youtu.be/oQbei5JGiT8

Anyhow, whomever was behind the pricing of this HCP/HCW gear is clearly a socialist in disguise. Burn the communistas, burrrrnnnn themmm!!

That is all.

[Viekn]

Yeah, but using the Tea analogy for sexual consent, logic would dictate that as soon as I decide I don't want more tea, it is my right to refuse further tea.

For those not aware this is actually a thing:
https://youtu.be/oQbei5JGiT8

Anyhow, whomever was behind the pricing of this HCP/HCW gear is clearly a socialist in disguise. Burn the communistas, burrrrnnnn themmm!!

That is all.

That tea video is awesome!

[cwolff]

The weighting on these things is crit or damage weighting?

[Ghost]

The weighting on these things is crit or damage weighting?

crit, hence why we're talking about it so much.

[time4fun]

Jesus you people need more going on in your lives.

[Neveragain]

More afraid about any "insider shenanigans" that happens with situations like this. Not saying it did, but even a casual review of the price list would've caught the mispricing, which lends me to think that low-mid management could or might've set something up for some easy money. Just doesn't make a lick of sense that someone didn't sit there and and think wait a minute, 6x Heavy gear going for this ridiculous price?! over a 3 day period, just a bit fishy.

Realistically speaking, technology depreciates rapidly and it only makes sense that 6x HCP armor would become cheaper and more readily available over time. Granted some items become more valuable over time because of collector value, though this would not be the case with this armor or the "technology" it provides.

I don't recall mass outcry from 8 track owners when Sony released the Walkman.

Having better off the shelf items at these events will only increase sales, hell I almost bought the shit to go and I stopped doing paid events years ago because it's always vanilla ice cream.

All in all, fuck the cash value people have placed on items that's on them for doing so. Asking a company to stick with the horse and buggy when they have a model A ready to roll off the production line because you own a horse and buggy is fucked up.

[Androidpk]

Crash the market! Crash the market!

[drauz]

Crash the market! Crash the market!

https://media1.giphy.com/media/Q2W4hziDOyzu0/giphy.gif

[Taernath]

>get scale
A sales clerk says, "Some dark leather scalemail will cost 15150 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

>;totalsolution

[Ghost]

Market needs to be rebalanced, at this rate we'll all be wielding messiah swords blessed by Jesus and Buddha by the time next DR rolls around.

Anyone give a thought about "conditional victories"? Like leveling to 50 with just 4x gear or making it to cap without armor or equivalent. I guess reward could be a pre-name title a permanent +2 to all stat bonuses, some token but readily noticeable.

[Maerit]

Realistically speaking, technology depreciates rapidly and it only makes sense that 6x HCP armor would become cheaper and more readily available over time. Granted some items become more valuable over time because of collector value, though this would not be the case with this armor or the "technology" it provides.

I don't recall mass outcry from 8 track owners when Sony released the Walkman.

Having better off the shelf items at these events will only increase sales, hell I almost bought the shit to go and I stopped doing paid events years ago because it's always vanilla ice cream.

All in all, fuck the cash value people have placed on items that's on them for doing so. Asking a company to stick with the horse and buggy when they have a model A ready to roll off the production line because you own a horse and buggy is fucked up.

What you're saying isn't really relevant to the conversation. SIMU has traditionally made powerful equipment harder to obtain over time, rather than easier. They release something awesome and powerful that's super cool, realize it will impact game balance, and then limit the release dramatically.

Their model is actually for the sake of keeping the company in business. This game is a "sustainable" game model. If you want them to release awesome powerful stuff, change the game balance, it requires the company to spend substantially more money to continue changing the game balance and tweaking things. Your capped hunting grounds are not designed to be curb-stomped by everyone wielding powerful equipment. As you release more and more powerful equipment, devaluing these items in the market, you slowly lose your players due to the lack of "challenging content".

Take WoW as a model of the "ever changing" model. You could spend years getting the top-end equipment, and then they release a new patch with a level cap increase, and the crappy "common" equipment is better than the items you had to put so much effort into obtaining. If we ask SIMU to keep releasing high-end equipment frequently, it's not only a detriment to the in-game economy, it has long lasting effects on the game balance, future design, and requires investment into adding new challenging content to the game to retain players.

At the end of the day, it's the right decision to protect the "sustainable" design of this game, and the market value of the equipment to ensure that these items remain a luxury and not a necessity.

[Eodus]

What you're saying isn't really relevant to the conversation. SIMU has traditionally made powerful equipment harder to obtain over time, rather than easier. They release something awesome and powerful that's super cool, realize it will impact game balance, and then limit the release dramatically.

Their model is actually for the sake of keeping the company in business. This game is a "sustainable" game model. If you want them to release awesome powerful stuff, change the game balance, it requires the company to spend substantially more money to continue changing the game balance and tweaking things. Your capped hunting grounds are not designed to be curb-stomped by everyone wielding powerful equipment. As you release more and more powerful equipment, devaluing these items in the market, you slowly lose your players due to the lack of "challenging content".

Take WoW as a model of the "ever changing" model. You could spend years getting the top-end equipment, and then they release a new patch with a level cap increase, and the crappy "common" equipment is better than the items you had to put so much effort into obtaining. If we ask SIMU to keep releasing high-end equipment frequently, it's not only a detriment to the in-game economy, it has long lasting effects on the game balance, future design, and requires investment into adding new challenging content to the game to retain players.

At the end of the day, it's the right decision to protect the "sustainable" design of this game, and the market value of the equipment to ensure that these items remain a luxury and not a necessity.

So what you're really saying is that Simu needs to remove the level cap, hire more devs, and start creating higher-level hunting grounds to keep post-cap players more engaged?

Yes, please.

[Fortybox]

Jesus you people need more going on in your lives.

Aw...you were doing so well this past month.

And then you gotta open your mouth.

[Fortybox]

Market needs to be rebalanced, at this rate we'll all be wielding messiah swords blessed by Jesus and Buddha by the time next DR rolls around.

Anyone give a thought about "conditional victories"? Like leveling to 50 with just 4x gear or making it to cap without armor or equivalent. I guess reward could be a pre-name title a permanent +2 to all stat bonuses, some token but readily noticeable.

Dramaqueen

[Ghost]

So what you're really saying is that Simu needs to remove the level cap, hire more devs, and start creating higher-level hunting grounds to keep post-cap players more engaged?

Yes, please.

Strangely enough the best times I had with GS were pre-50's, think the only reason people harp on the end-game is the silver generation is significantly higher at those levels. I'm curious what would happen if people were given a choice to remort or start again with a couple of perks or continue to stay at cap.

[Taernath]

Dramaqueen

lol, seriously

The game isn't going to end because of a flash sale on decent gear.

[Fortybox]

What you're saying isn't really relevant to the conversation. SIMU has traditionally made powerful equipment harder to obtain over time, rather than easier. They release something awesome and powerful that's super cool, realize it will impact game balance, and then limit the release dramatically.

Their model is actually for the sake of keeping the company in business. This game is a "sustainable" game model. If you want them to release awesome powerful stuff, change the game balance, it requires the company to spend substantially more money to continue changing the game balance and tweaking things. Your capped hunting grounds are not designed to be curb-stomped by everyone wielding powerful equipment. As you release more and more powerful equipment, devaluing these items in the market, you slowly lose your players due to the lack of "challenging content".

Take WoW as a model of the "ever changing" model. You could spend years getting the top-end equipment, and then they release a new patch with a level cap increase, and the crappy "common" equipment is better than the items you had to put so much effort into obtaining. If we ask SIMU to keep releasing high-end equipment frequently, it's not only a detriment to the in-game economy, it has long lasting effects on the game balance, future design, and requires investment into adding new challenging content to the game to retain players.

At the end of the day, it's the right decision to protect the "sustainable" design of this game, and the market value of the equipment to ensure that these items remain a luxury and not a necessity.

You're so wrong. Simu made more money off of this.

This game is too expensive as it is. It is absolutely ridiculous that players have to pay hundreds of dollars to get decent gear just because a certain few players are controlling the market.

If prices were lower it would entice more people to play. You have it all backwards.

[Eodus]

Strangely enough the best times I had with GS were pre-50's, think the only reason people harp on the end-game is the silver generation is significantly higher at those levels. I'm curious what would happen if people were given a choice to remort or start again with a couple of perks or continue to stay at cap.

Some of my best memories were from the 90's... being so freakin' excited about learning 719... stone giants were fun... many great memories of the graveyard as well, before all that... constantly chasing Candor around for pickpocketing... hunting 20+ levels up with implosion and a backpack full of broadswords at level 20 in Darkstone... being super excited about a 4x elven longsword... but yeah, if I could have the same feeling of significant challenge / adrenaline with a significantly post-cap player in uber gear on a hunting ground designed to brutally rip limb from limb anyone who steps foot... that'd be pretty great, too. As a player who doesn't hunt strictly for the purpose of silver, I see your point... however, I think that half of the exhilaration of such well-crystallized memories really came from exploring new and mysterious territory, not from repeating the same shit I've been doing on and off for 20+ years, starting back from ground zero.

That's just memberberries! The time has come for expansion.

[Fortybox]

Some of my best memories were from the 90's... being so freakin' excited about learning 719... stone giants were fun... many great memories of the graveyard as well, before all that... constantly chasing Candor around for pickpocketing... hunting 20+ levels up with implosion and a backpack full of broadswords at level 20 in Darkstone... being super excited about a 4x elven longsword... but yeah, if I could have the same feeling of significant challenge / adrenaline with a significantly post-cap player in uber gear on a hunting ground designed to brutally rip limb from limb anyone who steps foot... that'd be pretty great, too. As a player who doesn't hunt strictly for the purpose of silver, I see your point... however, I think that half of the exhilaration of such well-crystallized memories really came from exploring new and mysterious territory, not from repeating the same shit I've been doing on and off for 20+ years, starting back from ground zero.

That's just memberberries! The time has come for expansion.

Expansion in end-game content. We don't need more expansion...a meteor needs to hit EN.

[Ghost]

You're so wrong. Simu made more money off of this.

This game is too expensive as it is. It is absolutely ridiculous that players have to pay hundreds of dollars to get decent gear just because a certain few players are controlling the market.

If prices were lower it would entice more people to play. You have it all backwards.

You make a solid point.

But, the game is too small to break free of the gravitational pull of the few players that've played for years and amassed hundreds of billions between them all.

It's why Wyrom is so hardpressed to really cater to brand new players all the while keeping the lifers happy. It's too risky and finding ways to monetize more from the existing player base than expanding said playerbase is much safer.

I really do think they need to find ways to make different conditions of victory instead of this silvers over everything model. It'll go to longevity of the game and bigger more inclusive playerbase.

Otherwise keep your eye on the $/silvers exchange rate, soon as it starts dropping to some extremely low level you know the end is near.

[Eodus]

You make a solid point.

But, the game is too small to break free of the gravitational pull of the few players that've played for years and amassed hundreds of billions between them all.

It's why Wyrom is so hardpressed to really cater to brand new players all the while keeping the lifers happy. It's too risky and finding ways to monetize more from the existing player base than expanding said playerbase is much safer.

I really do think they need to find ways to make different conditions of victory instead of this silvers over everything model. It'll go to longevity of the game and bigger more inclusive playerbase.

Otherwise keep your eye on the $/silvers exchange rate, soon as it starts dropping to some extremely low level you know the end is near.

I'd say the first step to preventing that would be having a working knowledge of economics, and for folks to stop talking about the sky falling all the time. I swear half the people crying about a GS market crash are paid trolls from other RP-centric MUDs (which technically Gemstone is not, but we're not going to crawl down that rabbit hole) trying to chip away at the perceived market value of Elanthian silver.

The profit motive is innate. Every human being alive has it within them. Profit could be any one of: money, friends, happiness, moral superiority, butterfly collections, HCP/HCW gear, bling, awesome sauce, what have you. But trying to force the profit motive into a box, in Marxian fashion, is a strict logical fallacy with history, mathematics, and basic understanding of human psychology as proof. We are human beings. We are not machines.

The GS economy mirrors a RW economy more than a lot of people realize. It's quite interesting to watch. Except when somebody makes a mathematical error and the whole damn thing comes down unless there's a executive director who has the balls to do what's right for everyone. Not just the handful of merchants who bought 20 or 30 of these with the intention of making a massive personal profit.

[Eodus]

All that said, so long as the merchants who bought said items do not undercut the current market pricing, the secondary market should not be affected. That is a big IF, though.

[ArchSenex]

It's why Wyrom is so hardpressed to really cater to brand new players all the while keeping the lifers happy. It's too risky and finding ways to monetize more from the existing player base than expanding said playerbase is much safer.



Yeah, doesn't help that the lifers will actively and viciously tear apart new people, especially when the propose a change that things be more modern. Apparently, it's a personal attack to do something that might devalue work you did 20 years ago, or reduce the value of something you bought a decade past. "I paid 50 million silvers for this back at {Event that happened 15 years ago} and only over my dead body will you allow other people to have a version of it for less than that!"

[Eodus]

Yeah, doesn't help that the lifers will actively and viciously tear apart new people, especially when the propose a change that things be more modern. Apparently, it's a personal attack to do something that might devalue work you did 20 years ago, or reduce the value of something you bought a decade past. "I paid 50 million silvers for this back at {Event that happened 15 years ago} and only over my dead body will you allow other people to have a version of it for less than that!"

Yeah, certain items will naturally be devalued over time. Folks need to get over that. Oldtimers will still appreciate the intrinsic historical value. But taking a centric portion of the market (primary and secondary), that is to say, HCW/HCW gear that would cost a great deal of time and/or silver to wizard-enchant, and pad with PP, or to add padding/weighting in some other way... then selling it for SIGNIFICANTLY less is a slap to the face of every wizard, and to every account owner with enough points to pad / scrip to add weighting, and who did so using the standard methods.

Drawing in the crowds to DR with the sweet scent of cherry pie is one thing. Turning it into a HCP/HCW brothel for $15-a-go (a completely hypothetical and symbolic number) is another thing entirely.

[Wyrom]

Not that I really need to justify much, but I did react to the issue as soon as it was made aware to me. Things happen at times that go over me or tie my hands though. Sticking to my original decision was my plan, and that was dropping the armor to 6x and +5 padding/weighting. That's just not the reality I got to live in though.

[Neveragain]

What you're saying isn't really relevant to the conversation. SIMU has traditionally made powerful equipment harder to obtain over time, rather than easier. They release something awesome and powerful that's super cool, realize it will impact game balance, and then limit the release dramatically.

Their model is actually for the sake of keeping the company in business. This game is a "sustainable" game model. If you want them to release awesome powerful stuff, change the game balance, it requires the company to spend substantially more money to continue changing the game balance and tweaking things. Your capped hunting grounds are not designed to be curb-stomped by everyone wielding powerful equipment. As you release more and more powerful equipment, devaluing these items in the market, you slowly lose your players due to the lack of "challenging content".

Take WoW as a model of the "ever changing" model. You could spend years getting the top-end equipment, and then they release a new patch with a level cap increase, and the crappy "common" equipment is better than the items you had to put so much effort into obtaining. If we ask SIMU to keep releasing high-end equipment frequently, it's not only a detriment to the in-game economy, it has long lasting effects on the game balance, future design, and requires investment into adding new challenging content to the game to retain players.

At the end of the day, it's the right decision to protect the "sustainable" design of this game, and the market value of the equipment to ensure that these items remain a luxury and not a necessity.

Release of Legion = 10 million subs

:Mic Drop:

[Neveragain]

Yeah, certain items will naturally be devalued over time. Folks need to get over that. Oldtimers will still appreciate the intrinsic historical value. But taking a centric portion of the market (primary and secondary), that is to say, HCW/HCW gear that would cost a great deal of time and/or silver to wizard-enchant, and pad with PP, or to add padding/weighting in some other way... then selling it for SIGNIFICANTLY less is a slap to the face of every wizard, and to every account owner with enough points to pad / scrip to add weighting, and who did so using the standard methods.

Drawing in the crowds to DR with the sweet scent of cherry pie is one thing. Turning it into a HCP/HCW brothel for $15-a-go (a completely hypothetical and symbolic number) is another thing entirely.

I think the same thing when I see phones that can carry more music than I could used to fit in the cabin of my vehicle 10 years ago. You have any idea how many times I have had to replace my Zep II album? Technology is the Devil!

[Allereli]

Not that I really need to justify much, but I did react to the issue as soon as it was made aware to me.

I think that's what the problem was. Rather than close the shop and think it through, you immediately pulled the trigger, then immediately reversed, then reversed again, then lowered the price again.

[cwolff]

The items in this shop....if it doesn't specifically say crit weighting or padding then is it just damage weighting/padding?

[Allereli]

The items in this shop....if it doesn't specifically say crit weighting or padding then is it just damage weighting/padding?

it means an item was not purchased to check. the specified ones were purchased by others and assessed. The sign did not get updated to specify the type

eta: while they have all been critical, we have to be careful about what we assume when we make the list and have to go by GM intention (a sign or message board post) or actual testing.

[Taernath]

Sticking to my original decision was my plan, and that was dropping the armor to 6x and +5 padding/weighting.

Retroactively or on future sales? There is 5x, +5 padded armor for 2.5k BS a room away.

[cwolff]

it means an item was not purchased to check. the specified ones were purchased by others and assessed. The sign did not get updated to specify the type

eta: while they have all been critical, we have to be careful about what we assume when we make the list and have to go by GM intention (a sign or message board post) or actual testing.

That's good to know and a little scary. Is it just me or shouldn't that be something they advertise?

Wyrom, are you able to comment on this?

[Ghost]

Not that I really need to justify much, but I did react to the issue as soon as it was made aware to me. Things happen at times that go over me or tie my hands though. Sticking to my original decision was my plan, and that was dropping the armor to 6x and +5 padding/weighting. That's just not the reality I got to live in though.

It's somewhat worrying that this flew under your radar as 6x hcw/hcp items should most definitely be under your personal list of things to look out for. Understandably, I realize you also delegate work to subordinates but be aware that your subordinates are essentially volunteers and thus have different levels of culpability and motivation toward the game. That is to say, selfish not-legit intentions could be in the works especially in a game where the in-game/RL exchange is so liquid.

Bottom line, I had a feeling the pricing wasn't done personally by you but something that important should've been reviewed by you or a trusted top GM personally before going live, it really isn't that long a list.

Edit: Honestly, whoever did price that gear should really be looked into. If you even play the game half-assed for a few months and listen to merchant banter you would immediately know that 6x hcw gear is worth way more than the 12k bs price tag. A senior GM, which I assume who made the call on the pricing, should immediately know something was off just at a cursory glance.

[Taernath]

That's good to know and a little scary. Is it just me or shouldn't that be something they advertise?

It should be, yeah, but you always need to exercise caution at merchant events and wait until item stats are known before you buy.

[Donquix]

Um... ok .... Crit weighting sounds awesome on a runestaff but....

The point wasn't to consider which item is the best thing sold at DR. It was to show that the items sold here aren't the usual merchant items.

that wasnt the point i was making. at all. woosh.

[Tisket]

Not that I really need to justify much, but I did react to the issue as soon as it was made aware to me. Things happen at times that go over me or tie my hands though. Sticking to my original decision was my plan, and that was dropping the armor to 6x and +5 padding/weighting. That's just not the reality I got to live in though.

I do think you need to justify the poor sentence construction in your post however. I expect better from someone who is a GM in a text based game.

[Wrathbringer]

blahblahblah

go away, macgyver.

[Androidpk]

I do think you need to justify the poor sentence construction in your post however. I expect better from someone who is a GM in a text based game.

Says the adult that can't figure out how to get said text based game to work on her computer.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ghost]

I do think you need to justify the poor sentence construction in your post however. I expect better from someone who is a GM in a text based game.

Come to think of it, re-reading Wyrom's post, maybe the pricing wasn't at fault but the gear was created incorrectly. That is, they meant to put 6x +5 gear out there but made an honest mistake and put 6x, +10 instead?

6x, +5 for 12k BS would be more in-line with market.

[Tisket]

Says the adult that can't figure out how to get said text based game to work on her computer.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

At least I can articulate my issue using clear and concise sentence construction.

[Wyrom]

I think that's what the problem was. Rather than close the shop and think it through, you immediately pulled the trigger, then immediately reversed, then reversed again, then lowered the price again.

By immediately pull the trigger, you mean had an hour long discussion. And I didn't have a choice on the reversal. Let's try not to assume too many things are factual.


That's good to know and a little scary. Is it just me or shouldn't that be something they advertise?

Wyrom, are you able to comment on this?

The items are all crit, we don't retroactively change item properties. Scripts sometimes get updated though. Not sure what the doom and gloom is there. That's certainly making an issue out of a null one.

[Wyrom]

I do think you need to justify the poor sentence construction in your post however. I expect better from someone who is a GM in a text based game.

Yeah, sorry. PC is serious business. I'll remember that.

[Androidpk]

At least I can articulate my issue using clear and concise sentence construction.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc271/Drummerpete/COOKIE.png

[Tisket]

Yeah, sorry. PC is serious business. I'll remember that.

See that you do.

Carry on.

[ArchSenex]

That's good to know and a little scary. Is it just me or shouldn't that be something they advertise?

Wyrom, are you able to comment on this?

In most normal events, if critical information is left off a sign, the community asks and it gets added (from what I've seen). I would not consider anything happening with this shop typical. The only time information is not deliberately provided is when the sign intentionally says "for you to figure out" but that is almost always for fluff items, priced appropriately (for instance, the painting easels had many unknowns, but that was well communicated)

[Amerek]

Things like this have been happening throughout the entire history of Gemstone. Hell, there were people with gold rings set to the juggernaut who were buying FGB for weeks, if not months, after the event.

Its just a new evolution of the game. Just like FGB set the padding market and Duskruin sewers crushed the 5x market, this will change things a little. But I think the economy will still thrive and be interesting.

I really do hate the scaled pricing mechanics and the fact that the choice Duskruin gear doesnt get rotated every event. But this D&D fuckup has really made up for that imo.

[Neveragain]

It's somewhat worrying that this flew under your radar as 6x hcw/hcp items should most definitely be under your personal list of things to look out for. Understandably, I realize you also delegate work to subordinates but be aware that your subordinates are essentially volunteers and thus have different levels of culpability and motivation toward the game. That is to say, selfish not-legit intentions could be in the works especially in a game where the in-game/RL exchange is so liquid.

Bottom line, I had a feeling the pricing wasn't done personally by you but something that important should've been reviewed by you or a trusted top GM personally before going live, it really isn't that long a list.

Edit: Honestly, whoever did price that gear should really be looked into. If you even play the game half-assed for a few months and listen to merchant banter you would immediately know that 6x hcw gear is worth way more than the 12k bs price tag. A senior GM, which I assume who made the call on the pricing, should immediately know something was off just at a cursory glance.

So whoever priced this gear should be investigated because they didn't pay attention to an OOC out of game monetary value?

I give 2 huzzahs! to the GM who priced these. 1, for ignoring out of game pricing and the 2nd for creating a merchant that has mastered a technology making it more readily available to the common man and a better protected Elanthia. It don't get no realer than that.

I wonder how many more simucoins were purchased because of the availability of these items to the masses? (This is all that should matter)

[Allereli]

By immediately pull the trigger, you mean had an hour long discussion. And I didn't have a choice on the reversal. Let's try not to assume too many things are factual.

yes, an hour is pretty immediate when there's over a week left in the event. However, I agreed with your initial assessment to confiscate the sold items and put the original intended ones out. People knew it was an error, it was too good to be true. No one wanted to post on the officials asking about the shop when they kept asking on the Prime channel. Gee I wonder why. I'm sure there are a few people who are new, but I'm not buying all the sob stories.

[Wyrom]

I'm also on 4 hours of sleep since Saturday, just as an FYI. Unfortunately, I did not get to go to sleep last night.

[Ghost]

By immediately pull the trigger, you mean had an hour long discussion. And I didn't have a choice on the reversal. Let's try not to assume too many things are factual.



The items are all crit, we don't retroactively change item properties. Scripts sometimes get updated though. Not sure what the doom and gloom is there. That's certainly making an issue out of a null one.

As PM aren't you the final word on all decisions?

And I think you're kinda letting this slide a bit too easily, you know well that a lot of people play due to the merchanting aspect of the game, flooding the market with items at 1/3 the going rate is not a light issue, at least I don't think it is.

[Gelston]

Interesting, looks like someone from Corporate is managing GS more closely then eh?

[Ososis]

As PM aren't you the final word on all decisions?

And I think you're kinda letting this slide a bit too easily, you know well that a lot of people play due to the merchanting aspect of the game, flooding the market with items at 1/3 the going rate is not a light issue, at least I don't think it is.

You are so tiresome.

[Ghost]

I'm also on 4 hours of sleep since Saturday, just as an FYI. Unfortunately, I did not get to go to sleep last night.

Probably should get some sleep then, come back fresh. I'm not entirely satisfied with the current situation on the items -and I purchased a couple- but it's not like anything in GS can't be reversed.

[ArchSenex]

but I'm not buying all the sob stories.

I know. Now, in my case, it really was my late son's dying wish that I own a set of 6x HCP Armor. Won't you please think of my son?

[Ghost]

You are so tiresome.

hey man, it's a solid point. I bought a couple of them too, but at this point I'm worried about future events. If power scaling ceases to have any meaning then the game ceases to have meaning for a lot of people.

[evasive1]

The sign reads heavily padded and weighted. The price was the mistake, if anything. I don't understand the push to have items confiscated and reverted... nothing went out with unintentional stats. Quantity, sure. Pull a log of sales over x amount to any one character and refund their BS if you want, but this push by a select few to get Wyrom pissed enough to make yet another decision, is baffling. Let him make the calls he is designated to do.

I for one am thrilled to own even a single 6x hcw or hcp item for such a reasonable price; I had my eyes on a 5x fire flaring short sword right up until I saw it priced at 4k bloodscrip.

[Allereli]

I'm also on 4 hours of sleep since Saturday, just as an FYI. Unfortunately, I did not get to go to sleep last night.

exactly, I think sometimes the best thing to do with these issues, especially when sleep deprived, is nothing. Close the shop and sleep on it is always my vote for the first course of action.

[Whirlin]

hey man, it's a solid point. I bought a couple of them too, but at this point I'm worried about future events. If power scaling ceases to have any meaning then the game ceases to have meaning for a lot of people.

Give it a rest.

[Taernath]

However, I agreed with your initial assessment to confiscate the sold items and put the original intended ones out. People knew it was an error, it was too good to be true. No one wanted to post on the officials asking about the shop when they kept asking on the Prime channel. Gee I wonder why. I'm sure there are a few people who are new, but I'm not buying all the sob stories.

If you think it's a shitshow now, just imagine what would happen if you confiscated the hundreds (thousands?) of items that went out of that shop.

Things should only be confiscated if they are bugged or gamebreaking. These items were good, too good, maybe, for what you have to do to get them, but not gamebreaking.

[Allereli]

If you think it's a shitshow now, just imagine what would happen if you confiscated the hundreds (thousands?) of items that went out of that shop.

Things should only be confiscated if they are bugged or gamebreaking. These items were good, too good, maybe, for what you have to do to get them, but not gamebreaking.

the initial number was 12. Anyone who bought multiples knows exactly what they were doing. These items may not break the game, but they're certainly going to affect the player market for a long while, something that staff has emphasized is good to keep healthy. It was known from the moment someone explored the shop that something not approved for the event was available in mass amounts.

[Ghost]

Give it a rest.

roger that. anyhow, still looking forward to my first EG, this hasn't changed my plans in that regard. Like I said before, DuskRuin was amazingly better than DM, since I was breaking even in the sewers and gaining in the arena I actually could focus on the event itself, all of which was a blast!

[Eodus]

I'd just like to know how many of these went out so the community can have an eye on what sort of impact this is actually going to have. It's a mild game-changer for sure... the only thing that'll ever "break" GS will be if people stop nerding out to oldschool shit. And I don't want to live in a world like that.

[Ghost]

the initial number was 12. Anyone who bought multiples knows exactly what they were doing. These items may not break the game, but they're certainly going to affect the player market for a long while, something that staff has emphasized is good to keep healthy. It was known from the moment someone explored the shop that something not approved for the event was available in mass amounts.

OK one last tidbit. Just so I'm on the same page as everyone. A set of 6x HCP armor would run a person on the open market what? 35-40 million? 12k BS right before the start of DR is worth 13 mil?

Maybe my pricing is way off and this isn't as bad as it seems?

[Allereli]

OK one last tidbit. Just so I'm on the same page as everyone. A set of 6x HCP armor would run a person on the open market what? 35-40 million? 12k BS right before the start of DR is worth 13 mil?

Maybe my pricing is way off and this isn't as bad as it seems?

I don't think your pricing is too far off. Maybe 25-40m depending on the armor group not considering the Premium Point market.

[evasive1]

I had trouble getting 35m for 7x HCP MBP that was very slash resistant

[Eodus]

I don't think your pricing is too far off. Maybe 25-40m depending on the armor group not considering the Premium Point market.

Considering the time/cost to wizard-enchant a set of armor up to 6x, and then pad it with premium points, it's a large margin. But what can be done, if Wyrom's hands are tied on the issue? He's working literally around the clock and taking shit sandwich after shit sandwich with a smile. What else can be done but bicker about it, I suppose.

[Eodus]

I had trouble getting 35m for 7x HCP MBP that was very slash resistant

Was that the set that's also moderately vulnerable to shocking attacks?

[Allereli]

MBP

not a popular armor type.

[Allereli]

What else can be done but bicker about it, I suppose.

get sleep, discuss the situation, learn lessons, implement new procedures that focus QC on shops like this, make sure everyone on staff is on the same page in what is allowed.

[Wyrom]

the initial number was 12. Anyone who bought multiples knows exactly what they were doing. These items may not break the game, but they're certainly going to affect the player market for a long while, something that staff has emphasized is good to keep healthy. It was known from the moment someone explored the shop that something not approved for the event was available in mass amounts.

You're only thinking about the people who purchased the actual item. Not the numerous amount of people who ran to the SimuCoin store to buy in for these items specifically. And I think that's where there is some disconnect. And this is where my hands get tied. If it weren't for the sign in that room, we'd have a whole different situation.

It's a situation where we just need to be more careful and be sure to triple check things. A lot of us (GMs) get into a habit of checking item builds, and assume all the other stuff is correct. QC typically is more concerned if the item is put together properly. This mistake illustrates what happens when we glance over shops. This is Duskruin's 7th run, and we got in a routine that we thought worked. We also built a lot of new items this time around. The rooms before the vault are more the culprit of why we missed this. As I've stated, the gear in the vault should have been +5 for weighting/padding, just like the rooms before it. The difference was suppose to be the enchant.

Mistakes happen. This one is a rather small one in terms of integers being screwed up on 14 of the 1473 objects in Duskruin. The player market is really the thing to suffer. Game balance can always be adjusted if needed.

[time4fun]

Watching the pages and pages of people freaking out about not getting 6x HCW/HCP gear reminds me of this (http://deadstate.org/americas-spoiled-entitled-teenagers-ruined-christmas-on-twitter-this-morning/)

[evasive1]

Was that the set that's also moderately vulnerable to shocking attacks?

Yep. Thond got 40m for it eventually so that's good.

[Ghost]

You're only thinking about the people who purchased the actual item. Not the numerous amount of people who ran to the SimuCoin store to buy in for these items specifically. And I think that's where there is some disconnect. And this is where my hands get tied. If it weren't for the sign in that room, we'd have a whole different situation.

It's a situation where we just need to be more careful and be sure to triple check things. A lot of us (GMs) get into a habit of checking item builds, and assume all the other stuff is correct. QC typically is more concerned if the item is put together properly. This mistake illustrates what happens when we glance over shops. This is Duskruin's 7th run, and we got in a routine that we thought worked. We also built a lot of new items this time around. The rooms before the vault are more the culprit of why we missed this. As I've stated, the gear in the vault should have been +5 for weighting/padding, just like the rooms before it. The difference was suppose to be the enchant.

Mistakes happen. This one is a rather small one in terms of integers being screwed up on 14 of the 1473 objects in Duskruin. The player market is really the thing to suffer. Game balance can always be adjusted if needed.

Ahhhhh, I see Wyrom's point now. He's basically saying people went to the Simustore and paid X RL dollars for advertised as 6x HCP. If he were to go back in and change the items, it would be a scam on simu's part.

Wow, what a predicament.

Could you at least tell us how many of said items went out in total, that way we can readjust in the player market, make it a softer landing.

[ArchSenex]

Could you at least tell us how many of said items went out in total, that way we can readjust in the player market, make it a softer landing.

All of them? All that could, and would, and possibly will be. Just assume this stuff is worth as much as a 4x wand bow.

[Maerit]

OK one last tidbit. Just so I'm on the same page as everyone. A set of 6x HCP armor would run a person on the open market what? 35-40 million? 12k BS right before the start of DR is worth 13 mil?

Maybe my pricing is way off and this isn't as bad as it seems?

This is the thing. I believe people are over-valuing the HCP market. HCW is actually a slightly higher market than padding. I've been browsing PC sales, and found 6x HCP Brig sold for 25mil in 2106, and 6x HCP Plate was estimated for 30mil in 2016. A 6x HCW splitting handaxe was estimated at 50mil - but it was SPLITTING.

The original price set for 24 hours was 12.5k BS - during a time when BS was selling from 1,300 - 1,500 per. This means someone spent roughly 16mil-18mil for the item. The next day the items were 15,000 BS, and the price of BS was still 1,300 per. So closer to 20mil. It's important to note that it did not necessarily cost each player this much "silvers" to obtain the items, but the bloodscrip could have been converted into silvers instead of equipment.

While lower than average sales of 6x HCP equipment, it's not so dramatic. This is the same thing that happened with the 5x DCP armor that sold for 3500 BS around 1.5 years back. BS was 1,000 per at that time, and the 5x DCP armor was selling for between 6-8mil in 6 months after DR closed.

This 6x equipment is going to do the same. It may never bounce back up to over 30mil in value, but it will come back up to mid 20s.

Another positive market trend is that BS has retained it's value much longer this run than it ever has in previous runs. Usually after the first few days, BS value drops dramatically as everyone has finished buying the high-end gear, and have turned to farming their scrip instead of buying. We're still seeing an average of 1.2k silvers per BS at this stage in the event.

[Ghost]

This is the thing. I believe people are over-valuing the HCP market. HCW is actually a slightly higher market than padding. I've been browsing PC sales, and found 6x HCP Brig sold for 25mil in 2106, and 6x HCP Plate was estimated for 30mil in 2016. A 6x HCW splitting handaxe was estimated at 50mil - but it was SPLITTING.

The original price set for 24 hours was 12.5k BS - during a time when BS was selling from 1,300 - 1,500 per. This means someone spent roughly 16mil-18mil for the item. The next day the items were 15,000 BS, and the price of BS was still 1,300 per. So closer to 20mil. It's important to note that it did not necessarily cost each player this much "silvers" to obtain the items, but the bloodscrip could have been converted into silvers instead of equipment.

While lower than average sales of 6x HCP equipment, it's not so dramatic. This is the same thing that happened with the 5x DCP armor that sold for 3500 BS around 1.5 years back. BS was 1,000 per at that time, and the 5x DCP armor was selling for between 6-8mil in 6 months after DR closed.

This 6x equipment is going to do the same. It may never bounce back up to over 30mil in value, but it will come back up to mid 20s.

Another positive market trend is that BS has retained it's value much longer this run than it ever has in previous runs. Usually after the first few days, BS value drops dramatically as everyone has finished buying the high-end gear, and have turned to farming their scrip instead of buying. We're still seeing an average of 1.2k silvers per BS at this stage in the event.

Good points. But, that surge in BS was somewhat unusual and I fear that the vault situation could've played a role in that. Again, at this point since the items will remain as is, I think at least the management can do is give us an idea of how many of these vault items went out. Personal opinion, others may not care as much.

[ArchSenex]

Honestly, Gemstone's economy has never made any sense to me.

A capped character is 400-500, double capped can be gotten for 600-700... these are characters that take 3-6 YEARS at 40 hours a week to get.

Converting that to silvers.. apparently, 3-6 Years is worth what... 2 sets of nice armor? Entire characters are worth less than a bow... and some of the really crazy items cost 3-5 capped characters.

[Gelston]

Honestly, Gemstone's economy has never made any sense to me.

A capped character is 400-500, double capped can be gotten for 600-700... these are characters that take 3-6 YEARS at 40 hours a week to get.

Converting that to silvers.. apparently, 3-6 Years is worth what... 2 sets of nice armor? Entire characters are worth less than a bow... and some of the really crazy items cost 3-5 capped characters.

In most games gear is worth more than characters. BIS gear is what gets you into raids and makes you worth a crap.

[Maerit]

In most games gear is worth more than characters. BIS gear is what gets you into raids and makes you worth a crap.

Plus, characters cost money (subscription) and equipment doesn't. Though it would be interesting if SIMU made it possible to "rent" equipment for a couple bucks.

[ArchSenex]

In most games gear is worth more than characters. BIS gear is what gets you into raids and makes you worth a crap.

My experience was different, what got me into raids was that I had friends, and what made me worth a crap was that I was almost always the last to die. But you're ignoring the fact that in those games, gear and characters are completely bound together, and getting a character to raiding level takes a week at best. If it took a week to get a character to cap in GS, i'd get them being cheap. But it takes a lot longer than that.

[kcostell]

OK one last tidbit. Just so I'm on the same page as everyone. A set of 6x HCP armor would run a person on the open market what? 35-40 million?

Most recent pre-DR sale I could find was 20 million for 6x HCP, max light, spiked brig.

[Gelston]

My experience was different, what got me into raids was that I had friends, and what made me worth a crap was that I was almost always the last to die. But you're ignoring the fact that in those games, gear and characters are completely bound together, and getting a character to raiding level takes a week at best. If it took a week to get a character to cap in GS, i'd get them being cheap. But it takes a lot longer than that.

Hah, my friends wouldn't let me into Master mod ops unless I had gear that was good for master mod. If you didn't have the gear, you were getting one shotted. Tons of wipes just aren't good. The beginner stuff, sure, you use that to gear up for the harder content.

Eitherway, there are tons and tons of capped characters, and you can get there in 9 or so months. Longer than the majority of MMOs, but it is doable. Some of this gear, on the other hand, took lots more work and lots more time (and lots more pure luck) to create.

[Ghost]

I think it has a lot to do with the fact that you don't compare yourself to others based on what level you are in GS, mainly because there is very little player to player compeitition and also there is healthy stratification based around hunting grounds. Gear is the one aspect that transcends all that because now your 25th level character is significantly more powerful or unique than a similar 25 th level character.

[Wrathbringer]

Ahhhhh, I see Wyrom's point now. He's basically saying people went to the Simustore and paid X RL dollars for advertised as 6x HCP. If he were to go back in and change the items, it would be a scam on simu's part.

Wow, what a predicament.

Could you at least tell us how many of said items went out in total, that way we can readjust in the player market, make it a softer landing.

stfu macgyver.

[Neveragain]

Newer player: I'm real close to cap bro, I'm looking forward to being able to hunt OTF.

Older player: Oh yea it awesome man but you will need 6x HCP armor to do worth a shit there.

Newer player: Where can I get that?

Older player: I just so happen to have some all you have to do is give me $200 and it's yours.

Newer player:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYJDlbSCEXo

[Androidpk]

Anyone close to cap isn't a new player.. :|

[Astray]

Anyone close to cap is definitely not a new player. That shit takes YEARS.

[Fortybox]

Watching the pages and pages of people freaking out about not getting 6x HCW/HCP gear reminds me of this (http://deadstate.org/americas-spoiled-entitled-teenagers-ruined-christmas-on-twitter-this-morning/)

And there you go opening your mouth again. Nobody cares what you think.

[Astray]

Watching the pages and pages of people freaking out about not getting 6x HCW/HCP gear reminds me of this (http://deadstate.org/americas-spoiled-entitled-teenagers-ruined-christmas-on-twitter-this-morning/)

Oh you.

[Donquix]

And there you go opening your mouth again. Nobody cares what you think.

Someone's triggered.

[Donquix]

so what are the current prices sitting at for all the shit on this like third attempt to fix the situation? specifically, for things i might want. that's the important part.

[Taernath]

so what are the current prices sitting at for all the shit on this like third attempt to fix the situation? specifically, for things i might want. that's the important part.

Everything is currently between 15k and slightly over 16k.

[Fortybox]

Someone's triggered.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/171/410/703.jpg

[Ghost]

It's currently between 15k and 16k.

With bloodscrip prices coming down a bit they are still a great deal.

[beldannon5]

some people are trying to buy for less but it's still selling pretty decent

[Donquix]

Everything is currently between 15k and slightly over 16k.

It's fun seeing the things still at base price. Falchion was less than I expected it to be at but like, not exactly a dearth of mid-range falchion/handaxe to choose from already I guess. Plus i suppose people would have had to have bought them post-reset so, folks may have already loaded up.

[Neveragain]

Anyone close to cap isn't a new player.. :|

I said newer.....

I thought the 10 years it took me was a pretty good pace.

[Neveragain]

In most games gear is worth more than characters. BIS gear is what gets you into raids and makes you worth a crap.

Only raiding I have done is WOW, our group lasted from mid-vanilla to the end of Burning Crusade. First starting out most of us just had shit from 5 mans at best, think I even had a green when we first entered Molten Core. Mid-BC shit started getting too serious for my blood and WOW pretty much has been a PvP game for me since.

[Herachio]

so what are the current prices sitting at for all the shit on this like third attempt to fix the situation? specifically, for things i might want. that's the important part.

A sales clerk says, "Some dark vultite platemail will cost 15764 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

A sales clerk says, "Some dark augmented chain will cost 16898 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

A sales clerk says, "Some dark leather scalemail will cost 16080 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

A sales clerk says, "Some dark double leather will cost 17408 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

A sales clerk says, "Some flowing dark silk robes will cost 15301 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

[Donquix]

aug chain. all them bards with their poor neglected non-headcoverage base needs getting in on that sweet, sweet HCP action.

[Tenser]

Just curious, how does it look on the HCW weapons?

[Herachio]

Just curious, how does it look on the HCW weapons?

A sales clerk says, "A dark vultite espadon will cost 15000 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

A sales clerk says, "A dark vultite warlance will cost 15764 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

A sales clerk says, "A dark vultite tetsubo will cost 16080 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

A sales clerk says, "A dark vultite braquemar will cost 15454 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

A sales clerk says, "A dark vultite machete will cost 15608 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

A sales clerk says, "A dark vultite whip-blade will cost 15000 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

A sales clerk says, "A dark vultite fist-scythe will cost 15000 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

A sales clerk says, "A dark vultite butcher knife will cost 15150 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

A sales clerk says, "Some dark leather boots will cost 15608 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

A sales clerk says, "Some dark leather gauntlets will cost 15764 Duskruin Arena bloodscrip to purchase."

[Neveragain]

Since this thread is no longer offering up the entertainment it once did I took a gander at the officials.


I get that the GMs are volunteers, and I'm not directing my anger at them personally, but when things happen that affect the player base, it's good to see more than just $$ and game balance goes out the window. It was literally insignificant sums that were being initially complained about, and now the people to pay the price are your long-term subscribers who are slapped in the face by the devaluation of gear that we had worked years for and saved Premium points for over multiple years. No, not everyone resells stuff, but many people do attempt to upgrade. That market is now gone. I'm sure next run someone will trot out an excuse as to why we can't add padding at reasonable prices any more, which yet again punishes the people who spend more on Duskruin than $60 every few decades just so a quick buck can be made now. So you've catered to your casual players and the profiteers and screwed over your average long-term loyal customer.

It clearly doesn't pay off either to either actually believe the information we're told. Things will be changed anyway to accommodate everyone who claims they didn't know better about XYZ, never mind that literacy and personal responsibility should be encouraged in this text game we're playing in 2017. It's the people who actually attempt to make informed decisions based on GM provided information who end up screwed because you then flip-flop and cave to a few complaints about how they'll pull $60 from this game, never mind that they had never paid into pay events before to begin with. It was an honest mistake in the first place. It should have been refunded/revoked instead of harming the entire game and future development restrictions.


So Wyrom's quote on the PC... this would be really the ultimate slap in the face if suddenly everyone in certain AsGs is expected to have HCP armor because you gave away everything for free. I'd rather you don't sell things at all, or revoke and refund, instead of selling people things and then nerfing the game so we're back to square zero after wasting time and money.

Fleurs, I don't have the time or ambition to pick apart all the hypocrisy in your statements.

I will focus on the "Casual Player" that you label like they are some cancer upon the gaming community. The casual player is the core of the market share, the vast majority of customers DON"T have the privilege of living their life out in a 25 year old fantasy text based game. Virtually every gaming company targets the casual player because they are smart enough to understand that making your product inclusive generates more revenue. I would bet dollars to donuts that having this gear available at a lower cost, roughly 15 million silvers is not free not by a long shot, generated more revenue for SIMU.

Players like you who want to keep things exclusive are a bane to growth and improvement. Your gear that's comprised of nothing but 0's and 1's that you place so much value on will be worth spit when the servers shut down because SIMU didn't change with the demands of today's consumer.

There's a reason the Model-T isn't the top selling vehicle in todays market.

[Mogonis]

That grammar is all over the place. Like so much that I don't know what some sentences mean.

[Taernath]

slapped in the face


slapped in the face


slapped in the face

http://i.imgur.com/13MN3Bq.gif

[Androidpk]

Nothing makes me cringe harder than some entitled moron saying they're getting slapped in the face by a videogame company.

[Gelston]

Nothing makes me cringe harder than some entitled moron saying they're getting slapped in the face by a videogame company.

haha, that is the most overused line on most MMO forums. Soandso is a slap in the face!

[ArchSenex]

I will focus on the "Casual Player" that you label like they are some cancer upon the gaming community. The casual player is the core of the market share, the vast majority of customers DON"T have the privilege of living their life out in a 25 year old fantasy text based game.

I am boggled by this every day with Gemstone and some of the older players, who become downright enraged when you suggest you should be able to enjoy a game while spending LESS than 80 hours a week playing it. I mean, it seems a bit much to say that if you aren't willing to commit to the game the equivalent in time of working 2 full time jobs, you don't want to earn things.

[Ghost]

haha, that is the most overused line on most MMO forums. Soandso is a slap in the face!

The deed is done, word on the grapevine is close to a thousand 6x HCW/HCP weapons and armor went out to hundreds of characters. Will this break the mid tier market, yeah it will. Does it matter? No, not really. Fleurs needs to calm down.

[Viekn]

Nothing makes me cringe harder than some entitled moron saying they're getting slapped in the face by a videogame company.

Honestly, her whole rant just makes me want to burn the whole fucking thing down and tell people to go outside and play!

[time4fun]

Honestly, her whole rant just makes me want to burn the whole fucking thing down and tell people to go outside and play!

Who- Our Lady of Perpetual Angst, Fleurs?

I don't understand her. She is one of the DR power players, and she does nothing but complain EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

If you hate it so much- why do you spend so much time in it?

[Maerit]

This is equivalent to the crash in the claidhmore and katana market due to DR (though mauls contributed as well). Prior to DR, I sold two +12 Imflass Claidhmores for around 8mil each. These days, you'd be lucky to get 4mil. I have a +8 claidhmore that was found in DR (by someone else) that I doubt I could get 2 mil for.

Hell, I think even sephwir ranged weaponry has taken a dive due to the ability to find these items in the sewers.

You can also find HCW equipment in the sewers and arena. I found a 3x HCW handaxe that was also +12 to OHE enhancive. Someone snagged that up from me for right around 8mil.

[Ghost]

This is equivalent to the crash in the claidhmore and katana market due to DR (though mauls contributed as well). Prior to DR, I sold two +12 Imflass Claidhmores for around 8mil each. These days, you'd be lucky to get 4mil. I have a +8 claidhmore that was found in DR (by someone else) that I doubt I could get 2 mil for.

Hell, I think even sephwir ranged weaponry has taken a dive due to the ability to find these items in the sewers.

People got to read between the lines, this is all being done intentionally. In fact, if I were a fly on the wall of a grand council meeting between Wyrom and all the senior GMs, I wouldn't be surprised if I heard terms like "casuals", "item inflation", "inclusion", "Simucoins", and "how to proceed without pissing off the old timers."

Wyrom is a fucking smart bastard as well as the handful of senior GMs manning this ship, they know and can literally see how the GS economy is being siphoned into the hands of these "old school" or whatever you want to call them, players, and that's sucking the oxygen out of the mid-tier and bottom casual players who ultimately utilize the simustore by paying actual non-GSified US dollars cash.

Fuck, you may actually need a doctorate in economics to manage Gemstone now.

[Wrathbringer]

Stfu macgyver

[Neveragain]

I am boggled by this every day with Gemstone and some of the older players, who become downright enraged when you suggest you should be able to enjoy a game while spending LESS than 80 hours a week playing it. I mean, it seems a bit much to say that if you aren't willing to commit to the game the equivalent in time of working 2 full time jobs, you don't want to earn things.

Her argument that the game will be too easy is so disingenuous...I mean it's totally ok if it's easy as long as you buy into the cash market.

How dare a customer use the power of the purse, only Fleurs can use that tactic to sway policy.

[ArchSenex]

Her argument that the game will be too easy is so disingenuous...I mean it's totally ok if it's easy as long as you buy into the cash market.

How dare a customer use the power of the purse, only Fleurs can use that tactic to sway policy.

oh, im sure there are several quiet people who spend as much if not more.

[Androidpk]

Who- Our Lady of Perpetual Angst, Fleurs?

I don't understand her. She is one of the DR power players, and she does nothing but complain EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

If you hate it so much- why do you spend so much time in it?


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b6/f9/0c/b6f90c8daaaffe66bcf625643cf2014d.jpg

[Neveragain]

oh, im sure there are several quiet people who spend as much if not more.

From SIMU's position, I would think that things like REIM is the way to go. With the release of new "instances" like gear from the lower tier instances could be released in shops at paid events or even from 24/7 vendors. If one of SIMU's goals is to remove silvers from the economy, this is one way to do it. I.E. Gear score requirements.

[chalion]

I am 100% convinced Fleurs is not a real person as you would expect, instead they are the perfect troll. My praise to them for reaching trollvana, that state of mind where they troll even if they dont think they are. Seriously, theirs posts almost always include contradicting statements, attacks on others while claimining to be the victim and other cry bully tactics bordering on politicism while being entirely incapable of selfawareness. I am in awe of their ability to troll.

[ArchSenex]

From SIMU's position, I would think that things like REIM is the way to go. With the release of new "instances" like gear from the lower tier instances could be released in shops at paid events or even from 24/7 vendors. If one of SIMU's goals is to remove silvers from the economy, this is one way to do it. I.E. Gear score requirements.

ive never seen any mmo bother to remove currency. it devalues naturally. they put in new currencies, which is scrip and reim points. so you are correct about reim being the way of modernity.

[Ghost]

If Reim doubled the exp drain or consolidated the need to play insane hours to get anywhere in the game, it would be my bread and butter method of playing the game forever.

[Wrathbringer]

I am 100% convinced Fleurs is not a real person as you would expect, instead they are the perfect troll. My praise to them for reaching trollvana, that state of mind where they troll even if they dont think they are. Seriously, theirs posts almost always include contradicting statements, attacks on others while claimining to be the victim and other cry bully tactics bordering on politicism while being entirely incapable of selfawareness. I am in awe of their ability to troll.

yeah, she's horrible. And the thing is, she posts so much that if you ignore her, no conversations make sense anymore.

[Ososis]

If Reim doubled the exp drain or consolidated the need to play insane hours to get anywhere in the game, it would be my bread and butter method of playing the game forever.

Really? If you got double exp somewhere you would go to that place? Next you will be telling me you would hunt places with better loot!

This is one of the many reasons you are frustrating, you always give logically specious reasoning to attempt to get more for YOU in every aspect from F2P to Reim. You are not a voice of the community like you try to come across, you are selfish and full of baseless conspiracy theories that you spout as facts. Some of which are pretty hefty allegations against the core team behind GSIV.

[Dazmar]

With the absurd amount of 5x, 6x and weighted gear found in the arena and sewers it makes me wonder how they will restore game balance. 5x is the new vultite it seems. See them selling for 50k to 100k vanilla. I bid on a 6x shield the other day near peak hours and got it for 200k. I thought I was clever by keeping my 4x HCW falchion when I quit 7 years ago but with all these 6x HCW weapons out there (1000 sold?) I bet the value of my falchion just got cut in half. Makes me wonder if they will revisit talks of breakage to fix the situation and piss even more people off.

[Neveragain]

If Reim doubled the exp drain or consolidated the need to play insane hours to get anywhere in the game, it would be my bread and butter method of playing the game forever.

I'm speaking of post-cap content so experience is a non-issue, skills and abilities are improved through gear stats. Tiered instances open up a lot of opportunity for both the company and the player base.

Next up, CvC zones, player created factions and town conquest.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt1W0F0yObg

[Whirlin]

Simu should just every piece of armor purchased in excess of a 3rd set by a single individual explode when picked up. Just to teach people not to bitch so damn much about every little thing.

[Ghost]

Really? If you got double exp somewhere you would go to that place? Next you will be telling me you would hunt places with better loot!

This is one of the many reasons you are frustrating, you always give logically specious reasoning to attempt to get more for YOU in every aspect from F2P to Reim. You are not a voice of the community like you try to come across, you are selfish and full of baseless conspiracy theories that you spout as facts. Some of which are pretty hefty allegations against the core team behind GSIV.

Yeah, not when it costs extra money to access these places. So, you're buying time, exactly like anyone here would when buying silvers or gear or whatever for RL dollars.

[Androidpk]

Simu should just every piece of armor purchased in excess of a 3rd set by a single individual explode when picked up. Just to teach people not to bitch so damn much about every little thing.

They should just all of it and then some.

[Ghost]

Guys, I honestly think this was taken way out of proportion. For the times and past perspective it's not anything new. Remember that hole in the ground merchant in town square all those years ago selling the heavy padded plate and fel hafters off the shelf. Shit evolves, 5x is the new 4x Heavy weighting is the new fire flare. Move on.

And yeah I personally lost 30~40 million without doing shit because my fel hafter collection just all tanked, am I pissed? nahh, it's a fucking game, easy come easy go. Chill.

[Androidpk]

HCP is readily available to anyone that wants it via GS. It isn't a big deal.