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Turem
12-29-2004, 02:31 PM
Hey Im at work right now and was just skimming the boards and figured Id ask because it seems that there are some good number crunchers on here. Im a 23 Train Human Rogue, Two weapon edged user, who dosent pick and in COL.

I was wondering what a good set of base stats would be for this character? He was started back in 98 or so and sat untill about 2 months ago. He was sword and board but i figured id try something alittle more offensive and went TWC.

So I was just wondering what you guys thougth might be a good setup as far as stats go. Thanks for the help.

Jorddyn
12-29-2004, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Turem
So I was just wondering what you guys thougth might be a good setup as far as stats go. Thanks for the help.

There was a TWC rogue discussion on the official boards not long ago. You may want to go to the Rogue --> Rogue Training folder and skim back to see if you can find it.

Jorddyn

Edaarin
12-29-2004, 02:42 PM
Going to echo what Jorddyn said. There aren't many TWC rogues that post here (none that spring immediately to mind except maybe RangerD1's, and for a little while myself).

Turem
12-29-2004, 04:30 PM
Ahh ok thanks Ill definately try to check the offical boards out. You said there arent many TWC rogues about here, is that just here or in general? Any real reason why? Just curious, and btw thanks

Jorddyn
12-29-2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Turem
Ahh ok thanks Ill definately try to check the offical boards out. You said there arent many TWC rogues about here, is that just here or in general? Any real reason why? Just curious, and btw thanks

It's more difficult and dangerous than sword and shield. TWC is still very viable, though.

Jorddyn

Artha
12-29-2004, 04:44 PM
I'm going to suggest going THW instead.

Jorddyn
12-29-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Artha
I'm going to suggest going THW instead.

I have a friend who is TWC with katars, and it's fairly impressive. Of course, he's got a good 35 trains to work through still, so it may become more difficult.

Jorddyn

Artha
12-29-2004, 04:58 PM
TWC would be a lot better if it weren't for the 'You can't manage to use your second weapon' thing. That isn't a problem with THW, which, though you may swing less, you can unload a can or two full of whip ass in one shot.

Jorddyn
12-29-2004, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Artha
TWC would be a lot better if it weren't for the 'You can't manage to use your second weapon' thing. That isn't a problem with THW, which, though you may swing less, you can unload a can or two full of whip ass in one shot.

Interesting. Is that like the "you fail to find an opening" that we ambushers used to just love?

I wonder how often it happens...

Jorddyn

Artha
12-29-2004, 05:09 PM
I wonder how often it happens...

It's based on how many TWC and weapon ranks you have and critter level. If you 2x OHEs and 2x TWC, you should be able to swing at something like aged both times something like 100% of the time. However, the chance of success decreases as TWC ranks decrease or critter level increases.

Lomoriond
12-29-2004, 05:33 PM
Just to add my 2 cents to the mix

L picked up 1x twc at level 16 and saw about a 20% failure rate to 'find an opening" with the off-hand and a 50-75% failure rate on anything more than 5 levels over him

At level 23 I jumped him to 1.5x and only saw the failure 5% of the time, and about a 10-50% failure for stuff more than 5 over him.

At level 27 he went to full 2x and almost never saw a failure at like level and at 5+, maybe 5-10% while uphunting by more than 10 levels

And then with RSN i dropped TWC entirely (ranged/eged/twc just wasn't worth the points and ranged is more effective for me)

L is an elf with maxed dex/agi/dis

Hope that helps

L

Turem
12-29-2004, 06:53 PM
Right now Im like 2.3 or something like that in edged, and alittle over 2x in twc. At 24 I hunt reviers very easily, though I know they arent very much older then me. (28 maybe?)

Im in +22 imflass hauberk at the momment and use a Faehnor Waraxe in my main hand an a 4x lightning flaring shortsword in my off hand and its very effective. I will, once I find another, go with 2 faehnor waraxes and stop with Metal Breastplate.

Artha
12-29-2004, 07:00 PM
At 24 I hunt reviers very easily, though I know they arent very much older then me. (28 maybe?)

Reivers are 24 too.

Turem
12-29-2004, 07:01 PM
Oh and in regards to the THW and archery....

I tried THW at one point, but it seemed my DS was extremely low, but its been along time so I can only guess if it is as low now with twc as it was then. Ive debated about trying it again though, i can almost say I definately would if I could figure out how to overcome the huge ds loss I would take from it, and I figured Id attain more redux doing TWC and edged then with THW.

Concerning archery I tried that and did find it very effective with 3x hide,2xdodge, shadowmastery ect ect. But i honestly got tired of the ebladed arrows deal where if your arrow losses its eblade you cant rebundle it with the ebladed ones (makes since though) but it got really fustrating after awhile and it seemed to really be slow in a long fight with multiple targets in a room with some arrows losing thier eblade and some not

Turem
12-29-2004, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by Artha

At 24 I hunt reviers very easily, though I know they arent very much older then me. (28 maybe?)

Reivers are 24 too.

Well that would explain that, what about Arch Priestess and the like in the spider temple? They're pretty easy too but i have no idea of thier train.

What would be a good hunt for me around say 27-29 trains near the landing?

Artha
12-29-2004, 07:25 PM
Arachne priests/priestesses are 26. The mammoth arachnids are 30. The acolytes are 23.

At 27-29, I was hunting cyclops. But they're in Solhaven. They are, though, extremely easy.

Turem
12-29-2004, 07:41 PM
Thanks for that, but Ill check around too see what else i can find in that range.

Since you seem to be the obvious THW guru for rogues, what kind of training plan would you recommend for that type? What recommendations do you have to overcome the extreme lack of DS? Im in CoL so that helps alittle, but just seeing what you thought? Redux will help obviously, and I like the idea of trying to get into MBP, but as far as defense goes what would you recommend? 3x dodge? just wonderling

Fengus
12-29-2004, 07:47 PM
Yeh my rogue is THW also. Although I played my last rouge upto about lvl 15 with TWC, but this was before the most recent changes so haven't dealt with so much missing on the offhand.

However, a new tidbit uncovered in the research board showed that missing your target from ambushing can still randomly hit the aimed for target. What this means is that TWC has a slightly higher percentage to hit what they aim at, which is highly effective if you are ambushing somehitng that takes 4 or less crit level (which means it always crits).

Its no more or less viable than THW and I would go for it if its what sounds like fun to you. I'd leave the shields for the semis and other cowardly folk.

Turem
12-29-2004, 08:08 PM
Shields? /scoff

No shields for me, :up:

Artha
12-29-2004, 08:12 PM
No shields for me

There's hope for you yet.

Lomoriond
12-29-2004, 08:36 PM
For TWC really the best defense is a good offense. Your DS will be low so... don't miss! When I did TWC I used a hatchet in the right hand and a falchion in the left, and had a 6 second ambush RT... with two decent hitting weapons if the first missed the second almost always stunned.

Elves do have SOME good points....


For arrows:
E-bladed arrows work a certain way (same with blesses)

You get a pool of "shots" in the base bundle, when you pull an arrow it gets 2 shots out of that pool.
You shoot it and lose 1 shot.. then you can rebundle it and add that 1 shot back to the pool. Shoot it twice before rebundling and it loses its elbade/bless and can't be rebundled.

The real trick to deal with that nuisance is
to set up macros. But if you remember to only shoot once, you'll not lose your e-blade

Another trick is to get your arrows into bundles of 2 and have someone who can attune eblade them one by one, and bundle, bundle, bundle... Pretty sure theres a max shot pool, but i've been going a month on one bundle.



As for critters:
Arachne priests are 26, the arachnids are 30.... if you fancy a trip to haven you can do cyclops (28) or the lake (ki-lin are 28 and pra'eda are 29)

My warrior, rogue AND sorcerer all just went on to tegus/hunter trolls once out of the spider temple, but thats in illistim which is a whole nother mess of crap to deal with.


L

[Edited on 12-30-2004 by Lomoriond]

Turem
12-29-2004, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by Artha

No shields for me

There's hope for you yet.

God can I can only hope.

Turem
12-29-2004, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by Lomoriond
For TWC really the best defense is a good offense. Your DS will be low so... don't miss! When I did TWC I used a hatchet in the right hand and a falchion in the left, and had a 6 second ambush RT... with two decent hitting weapons if the first missed the second almost always stunned.

[Edited on 12-30-2004 by Lomoriond]

Thats pretty much the theology Ive taken, Swing two hard hitting weapons, add alittle higher RT, but if its dead,stunned,or legless, it really dosent matter about that extras 1sec.....usually. Thats why Im looking for a second Faehnor to use in my offhand hehe

Turem
12-30-2004, 01:04 AM
Strength (STR): 90
Constitution (CON): 80
Dexterity (DEX): 90
Agility (AGI): 90
Discipline (DIS): 70
Aura (AUR): 44
Logic (LOG): 66
Intuition (INT): 60
Wisdom (WIS): 50
Influence (INF): 20

By the way any help from the number crunchers out there? Heres mystarting stats, Human in race btw. Thanks

12-30-2004, 04:31 AM
i have an elf twc/rogue... basically here's are the pro's to TWC:

Style, it's just sooo cool to killify things with focused mstrike + twc + flaring blades, or faenor waraxes

Speed, depending on what you wield, it's two daggers in 3 seconds, two shortswords in 5 (maybe 4, i forget offhand), falchion/shortsword or other combo in 5

more parry...
Sure, you lose the Block that shield ppl get, but I seem to parry more often.


CONs

You can't take too many hits. You need to 2x PF, 3x, plus some torso chain to stay alive at later levels. (for redux and dodge). let me tell you 3x dodge is nice.

Because of the above, you'll have to give up hiding/ambush or picking to do well. if you're real fast, you might be able to fit everything in while 2x dodging and training 1x in PF.

Uphunting. Uphunting is tough to pull off over 5 levels, you'll miss with the offhand a bit even with 2x TWC.

I like it.. u2u me if you wanna see my current training plan at lvl 29

Artha
12-30-2004, 07:20 AM
Since you seem to be the obvious THW guru for rogues, what kind of training plan would you recommend for that type? What recommendations do you have to overcome the extreme lack of DS? Im in CoL so that helps alittle, but just seeing what you thought? Redux will help obviously, and I like the idea of trying to get into MBP, but as far as defense goes what would you recommend? 3x dodge? just wonderling

There's a few that work really well. StrayRogue had one motherb of a plan which was extremely magical, and he did pretty well with combat skills. I'm not exactly sure how he did it, though, so I'm not much help there. [edit: I went ultra physical, I'll post my plan if you're interested. And I'm sure you could work in picking if you're into that.]

As for redux, at 40 I have something like 39%. I used my fixskills to drop dodge down from 3x and get into MBP. I've loved it, except for the fact that spikethorn effing rapes me now.

As for defense, try not to get hit. This means not fighting swarms and aiming for the head/neck of most things you'll hunt. Generally, if the first hit isn't a kill shot, it'll do more than 100 damage and a stun and/or knockdown. Another thing is to have redux and some nice armor (FGB worked pretty well, MBP is great), so when you do get hit, you can keep on fighting. And you will get hit, but hardly ever hard.

[Edited on 12-30-2004 by Artha]

Turem
12-30-2004, 12:02 PM
Ok here my current TWC trainings, i know the armor is kinda over trained for 23 but im just trying to get hauberk worked off till MPB then im gonna drop to 1x per...

Two Weapon Combat..................| 150 50
Armor Use..........................| 150 50
Combat Maneuvers...................| 134 37
Edged Weapons......................| 150 50
Ambush.............................| 146 46
Physical Fitness...................| 146 46
Dodging............................| 146 46
Magic Item Use.....................| 25 5
Harness Power......................| 10 2
Stalking and Hiding................| 146 46
Perception.........................| 146 46
Climbing...........................| 45 9
Swimming...........................| 15 3

That MIU is being worked off now btw, its going to 0.

[Edited on 12-30-2004 by Turem]

Sean
12-30-2004, 12:05 PM
I believe Drektor is a human TWC rogue and reads these boards from time to time. You might want to try u2u'ing him incase he misses this thread.

Turem
12-30-2004, 12:16 PM
Any recommendations on my base stats? Im still looking at possibly doing two hander, but i just played around with it and dont see how you could really pull it off, If I droped to 2x armor, got rid of all of my twc and edged, and put all that into two hander I only got like 41 trains or something, What else would I have to drop down in to get this to work right?

Artha
12-30-2004, 12:19 PM
Any recommendations on my base stats? Im still looking at possibly doing two hander, but i just played around with it and dont see how you could really pull it off

Like so:

Aone (at level 40), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Armor Use..........................| 175 75 75
Combat Maneuvers...................| 162 62 62
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 184 84 84
Ambush.............................| 142 42 42
Physical Fitness...................| 162 62 62
Dodging............................| 184 84 84
Harness Power......................| 5 1 1
Survival...........................| 143 43 43
Stalking and Hiding................| 182 82 82
Perception.........................| 143 43 43
Climbing...........................| 70 15 15
First Aid..........................| 143 43 43

Level 0 Stats for Aone, Human Rogue

Strength (STR): 75
Constitution (CON): 70
Dexterity (DEX): 80
Agility (AGI): 80
Discipline (DIS): 70
Aura (AUR): 70
Logic (LOG): 75
Intuition (INT): 40
Wisdom (WIS): 60
Influence (INF): 40

Drektor
12-30-2004, 01:56 PM
Level 0 Stats for Drektor, Human Rogue

Strength (STR): 75
Constitution (CON): 78
Dexterity (DEX): 80
Agility (AGI): 75
Discipline (DIS): 78
Aura (AUR): 82
Logic (LOG): 58
Intuition (INT): 59
Wisdom (WIS): 55
Influence (INF): 20

Two Weapon Combat..................| 296 196
Armor Use..........................| 190 90
Combat Maneuvers...................| 296 196
Edged Weapons......................| 296 196
Ambush.............................| 290 190
Physical Fitness...................| 200 100
Dodging............................| 296 196
Arcane Symbols.....................| 99 23
Magic Item Use.....................| 99 23
Harness Power......................| 5 1
Survival...........................| 140 40
Disarming Traps....................| 236 136
Picking Locks......................| 286 186
Stalking and Hiding................| 296 196
Perception.........................| 200 100
Climbing...........................| 105 25
Swimming...........................| 90 20
First Aid..........................| 50 10
Trading............................| 140 40
Pickpocketing......................| 296 196

Hunt with flaring daggers and pick up hamstring.
Since you aren't lockpickin do more PT I guess.
When ambushing don't be afraid to aim for the back or abdomen.

One rank of HP boosts my mana to a whoppin 11 but lets me use all my battle signs at once.

Turem
12-30-2004, 01:56 PM
Oh so you only did alittle over1x in ambush. Didnt think about that. Also how come so low on the perception, wouldnt you want to keep that atleast 2x for aiming that claid?

Artha
12-30-2004, 01:57 PM
Ok here my current TWC trainings, i know the armor is kinda over trained for 23 but im just trying to get hauberk worked off till MPB then im gonna drop to 1x per...

Hauberk and MBP take the same amount of ranks for the maneuver penalty.


Oh so you only did alittle over1x in ambush. Didnt think about that. Also how come so low on the perception, wouldnt you want to keep that atleast 2x for aiming that claid?

I only swing a claidh to screw around. For real hunting I use a 6x battle axe. I don't always hit what I'm aiming for, but I have a decently high success rate (75-80%).

[Edited on 12-30-2004 by Artha]

Turem
12-31-2004, 12:31 PM
Ahh good info, Im seriously gonna have to look into that. Though after thinking about it, It would be kinda cool to swing a two hander, though the catch is, Id like to have some spells up to about 415. Now that would be pretty nasty setup

Artha
12-31-2004, 12:50 PM
Stay did it. I really am not sure how.

hectomaner
12-31-2004, 04:01 PM
level 50 human rogue

starting stats


Strength (STR): 90
Constitution (CON): 60
Dexterity (DEX): 90
Agility (AGI): 90
Discipline (DIS): 70
Aura (AUR): 70
Logic (LOG): 50
Intuition (INT): 50
Wisdom (WIS): 60
Influence (INF): 30

Two Weapon Combat..................| 204 104
Armor Use..........................| 180 80
Combat Maneuvers...................| 193 93
Edged Weapons......................| 204 104
Ambush.............................| 204 104
Physical Fitness...................| 165 65
Dodging............................| 204 104
Arcane Symbols.....................| 130 35
Harness Power......................| 5 1
Stalking and Hiding................| 225 125
Perception.........................| 225 125
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 90 20

Fengus
12-31-2004, 10:12 PM
What the hell do you want 415 for?


Many rogues go to 410, I'm trying to get that by 40, but I may stop along the way cause I'm sacrificing CM to do it. My goal was to get 406 by 24, which is kinda handy but only worth it cause I needed lores for my doubling.

Now that MoC is becoming important, I may either rush 410 quicker or ignore it for some MoC. Its pretty bad for me now, I lose like 40 DS from just 2 attacks. Which sucks when you don't have much DS to begin with.

01-01-2005, 02:17 PM
This is the training plan I might go for as well!

Trinitis
01-01-2005, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Turem
Right now Im like 2.3 or something like that in edged, and alittle over 2x in twc. At 24 I hunt reviers very easily, though I know they arent very much older then me. (28 maybe?)

Im in +22 imflass hauberk at the momment and use a Faehnor Waraxe in my main hand an a 4x lightning flaring shortsword in my off hand and its very effective. I will, once I find another, go with 2 faehnor waraxes and stop with Metal Breastplate.

And if/when the armor changes roll in, you will be unable to hunt unless you make changes. hehe.

With TWC, your main defence is not being visible so they can't get a swing off. Once the changes go through, your a sitting duck.

Turem
01-03-2005, 12:36 AM
At that point ill either have a fixskills or just reallocate it off, no biggie there

AnticorRifling
01-03-2005, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Adredrin

Originally posted by Turem
Right now Im like 2.3 or something like that in edged, and alittle over 2x in twc. At 24 I hunt reviers very easily, though I know they arent very much older then me. (28 maybe?)

Im in +22 imflass hauberk at the momment and use a Faehnor Waraxe in my main hand an a 4x lightning flaring shortsword in my off hand and its very effective. I will, once I find another, go with 2 faehnor waraxes and stop with Metal Breastplate.

And if/when the armor changes roll in, you will be unable to hunt unless you make changes. hehe.

With TWC, your main defence is not being visible so they can't get a swing off. Once the changes go through, your a sitting duck.

He will still be very viable if the armor changes happen. Being trained for hauberk or higher means that he's over trained for wearing brig or lighter armor needed to hide without penalty. He then will have the choice of either unlearning the ranks and finding other venues to apply the points or he can keep the ranks and have the choice of wearing heavy armors if he decides to hunt something that is blind but hits hard, or any other situation where he might find the advantage of wearing a heavier class of armor.

Zook.

Artha
01-03-2005, 09:10 PM
I know that when the armor changes come in, I'm dropping armor down to 30 ranks and going back to 3xing dodge. God damn spikethorn.

Turem
01-03-2005, 11:10 PM
[/quote]

He will still be very viable if the armor changes happen. Being trained for hauberk or higher means that he's over trained for wearing brig or lighter armor needed to hide without penalty. He then will have the choice of either unlearning the ranks and finding other venues to apply the points or he can keep the ranks and have the choice of wearing heavy armors if he decides to hunt something that is blind but hits hard, or any other situation where he might find the advantage of wearing a heavier class of armor.

Zook. [/quote]

Exactly what i was thinking, though I doubt i would keep the ranks though, just drop them and triple dodge or maybe pick up afew spells. Probably the later.

Gizmo
01-06-2005, 06:47 PM
11th Train Rogue

Two Weapon Combat..................| 102 24
Armor Use..........................| 58 12
Combat Maneuvers...................| 58 12
Brawling...........................| 102 24
Ambush.............................| 102 24
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 45 9
Physical Fitness...................| 58 12
Dodging............................| 102 24
Harness Power......................| 15 3
Stalking and Hiding................| 132 36
Perception.........................| 102 24

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 1