UN biting the hand that feeds it

[Parkbandit]

The UN classifying the US as "stingy" due to "ONLY" giving 15 million in initial aid towards the tsunami disaster really irritates me to no end. No other country contributes nearly as much as we do and hasn't for the past 50 some years. I think the problem is.. they can't skim nearly enough for their own greed off 15 million and that is what is upsetting them.

Where would the UN be without the US? That's right.. completely defunct. We provide more of everything to that corrupt organization and it's still not enough.

What is the UN's role in the world today? Is it time to simply pull out of it and let it die on it's own? The idea of a world body that does have some global power is a great idea on paper.. but we saw with Iraq that they really only have power on that paper.

[Nieninque]

15 million dollars for a disaster that killed over 20 thousand people is nothing though.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Nieninque
15 million dollars for a disaster that killed over 20 thousand people is nothing though.

How much did Great Britian contribute? I heard France has given a whopping $130,000 and Canada and Germany gave 1 million. I also understand that our 15 million was for immediate aid.. and we've given 20 million more.

Once again, the United States is coming to the aid of those that cannot provide for themselves. Especially in the area of the world that this disaster happened.. most were pretty happy with the events of 9-11-01.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Nieninque
15 million dollars for a disaster that killed over 20 thousand people is nothing though.

How much did Great Britian contribute? I heard France has given a whopping $130,000 and Canada and Germany gave 1 million. I also understand that our 15 million was for immediate aid.. and we've given 20 million more.

Once again, the United States is coming to the aid of those that cannot provide for themselves. Especially in the area of the world that this disaster happened.. most were pretty happy with the events of 9-11-01.

You misunderstand me.
I am not saying that the US did not give enough so they are worse than everyone else, I am saying 15b million is fuck all in terms of re-building the mess that the regions hit by the tsunami will need.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the UK will also offer some derisory amount that wont even scratch the surface of whats needed.

If this had been a financial disaster, you can bet the money would be pouring in.

The UK government spend around 7 or 8 million pounds a year (so near 15 million dollars) just on transport for the cabinet members.

They also run a export credit guarantee scheme which underwrites debts accrued by dubious businesses (notably arms exporters) when they default on the export deals. That accounts for around £240 million a year (over the last ten years) so around 500 million dollars a year, paying off arms deals to underdeveloped countries where the oppressive regimes have not paid for the arms we have sold them.

I could think of a better use of money. Im pretty sure that would apply to the US too.

[GSTamral]

The European Union, which of itself as a whole is larger than the United States, has offered 4 million.

Odd that the UN doesn't come down on them.....

The amount the US is giving is paltry, but thats an initial amount. I am sure that will go up. The "liberal socialist pigs" in Europe will probably hold fast at their 4 million dollar contribution.

For all the banter and abuse the right wing hawks in the US seem to take, they do always seem to take the initiative and donate the most in these situations....

In short, to hell with the UN. The UN still hasn't even held a meeting to start delivering aid from their own budget. For them to complain that we only give a small amount is retarded. We have poor people and people in need here in the US to take care of first.

[hectomaner]

Originally posted by Nieninque
15 million dollars for a disaster that killed over 20 thousand people is nothing though.

15 million dollars is a lot of fucking money. period. especially since it was GIVEN to them to help them.

shit man, i give the bum that lives outside my apartment 1 dollar, hes a happy fucking camper, he dont say wtf man, you stingy bastard.

and if you ask me, its a lot more then they deserve to get from us. any time we hand out free money, we get ripped on. i say fuck everyone and their needy countries. why help them when everyone just turns on us after we do it?

We are the world's largest foreign aid contributor hands down.

What pisses me off is that Powell has been answering all the press inquiries about foreign aid, and Bush hasn't popped up on TV to say shit yet I don't think

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by GSTamral
The European Union, which of itself as a whole is larger than the United States, has offered 4 million.

$40.5 Million dollars in fact.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4129579.stm


Odd that the UN doesn't come down on them.....

They are. You just dont hear that because that isnt news-worthy in the US.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4130127.stm

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Nieninque
They are. You just dont hear that because that isnt news-worthy in the US.

You're not allowed to ruin their "Everyone hates America and only America no matter what!" rant. Stop it.

Raven

[Valthissa]

want to do something positive:

http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/my-pay-page/PX3BEL97U9A4I/104-2614499-6758337

or not.

C/Valth

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Nieninque
15 million dollars for a disaster that killed over 20 thousand people is nothing though.

how many hungry Americans would that 15 million have helped in 2005?

I am sick of my tax dollars being used for other countries.

[Trinitis]

You know, this subject is hard for me..

On one hand, I completely agree with TOJ and others. I'm tired of us being shit on no matter what we do. We pay all these taxes every year, a portion of it is given out (without asking us who gets what, I might add), and we still get called greedy. I'd be hard for me to turn down a bill to stop giving aid to any other country.

But on the other hand, I also feel, that being we are a "super power" of the world, and we are trying (IMO) to bring some sort of order to the "lesser" countries. This takes aid. Money, time, help, etc etc. So I also feel we should help where we can, when we can.

In ending. If I was walking into a store, and one of the bell ringers sneered at me and called me a stingy asshole for only giving a dollar or two, I'd not only take my dollar back, I'd most likely bust his damn head.

Adredrin, you got me sold!

We take our money back and invade these sorry excuses for countries! March on!

- Arkans

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Adredrin

In ending. If I was walking into a store, and one of the bell ringers sneered at me and called me a stingy asshole for only giving a dollar or two, I'd not only take my dollar back, I'd most likely bust his damn head.

If you walked out of Harrods with thousands of pounds worth of shopping, and on your way into your limo decided to give 50p to the homeless bod begging outside, while I am sure he would be grateful for something, Im pretty sure that he would also be thinking you were a stingy fucker.

The UN weren't bemoaning the US alone, in fact, the account that I posted above doesnt even mention the US. It talks about the rich nations. You know, they also have a point.

As rich nations we get to make all the decisions. We get to do things we want. If less wealthy countries disagree, we make them agree. We have the money and that brings power. We like showing how rich and powerful we are...until it comes to dealing with the after effects of things like this. Then we are that stingy fucker we are being accused of. If that makes you feel uncomfortable about yourself, then maybe you should look at why, because it is true.

[Edaarin]

$15M is NOTHING.

Do you have any idea how much money goes to Israel every year?

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Edaarin
$15M is NOTHING.

Do you have any idea how much money goes to Israel every year?

$5,525,800,000 apparently

http://www.wrmea.com/us_aid_to_israel/

[Edited on 29-12-04 by Nieninque]

[Tsa`ah]

Several nations receive between 100 mil and 50 bil annually in aid from the US. It's rather irrelevant how much Israel, Saudi Arabia, Russia, or Mexico receive.

You could say that Russia's 40.5 mil donation was made in the name of Russia via the US when you consider 5.6 bil IDO grant from US funds.

It's not hard to donate big when you're using US funds to do it.

So let's look at a slightly larger picture.

Sri Lanka - Recipient of 577 mil in aid
Thailand - Recipient of 131.5 mil in aid
Indonesia - Recipient of 43 billion from 97 - 00
India - Recipient of 2.9 billion and lots and lots of US jobs.

So the US didn't up and cough up a few more billion dollars in aid the moment the Tsunamis rolled through, aside from this very costly and needless war taking up a huge chunk of cash ... we're actually rather strapped for cash at the moment.

Sometimes I feel like the US should just draw all the troops in, stop the aid dollars from flowing and tell everyone to go fuck themselves. Unfortunately that would be economic disaster.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
So let's look at a slightly larger picture.

Sri Lanka - Recipient of 577 mil in aid
Thailand - Recipient of 131.5 mil in aid
Indonesia - Recipient of 43 billion from 97 - 00
India - Recipient of 2.9 billion and lots and lots of US jobs.


How much do the US take in debt repayments from those same countries?

In one hand and out the other...

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Sometimes I feel like the US should just draw all the troops in, stop the aid dollars from flowing and tell everyone to go fuck themselves. Unfortunately that would be economic disaster.

Either I'm turning liberal or you are turning conservative.. because I feel like that right now.

[EmpressBtch]

Isn't the US Navy doing SAR as well? I guess thaey work for free?

[DeV]

15 million barely scratches the surface and our government knows it which is why they have increased the aid by a larger but still relatively small amount. There are Americans who are willing to sacrifice their vacations as well as time with their family to help with this national disaster; those are the folks I applaud.

[Warriorbird]

Eh. Considering how much Bush has flipped off the UN, it doesn't suprise me that they'd attack American credibility.

For my own part, I favor shockingly conservative ideas like balancing the budget and trying to reduce the deficit. The Republican party isn't really fiscally conservative anymore, however, unless it concerns paying less money to poor people.

[DeV]

Plus, these are third world countries we're talking about. It makes it harder to give when there is nothing to gain. Rightfully so?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by DeV
15 million barely scratches the surface and our government knows it which is why they have increased the aid by a larger but still relatively small amount. There are Americans who are willing to sacrifice their vacations as well as time with their family to help with this national disaster; those are the folks I applaud.

15 million was the initial sum that was quickly put into action. Don't confuse that with 'Hey, we'll give them 15 million and if they bitch some more, we'll up it a little' because that's simply not the case.

And no one is stopping Americans from contributing on their own. I know of at LEAST 4 different funds that have been set up in the Tampa Bay area to help with this disaster.

I simply think the UN has outlived their true usefulness. I have zero faith that all the money we contribute to the UN will actually go to aid those that need it.. and not lining someone's pockets while they sit and watch.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Nieninque
[quote]As rich nations we get to make all the decisions. We get to do things we want. If less wealthy countries disagree, we make them agree. We have the money and that brings power. We like showing how rich and powerful we are...until it comes to dealing with the after effects of things like this. Then we are that stingy fucker we are being accused of. If that makes you feel uncomfortable about yourself, then maybe you should look at why, because it is true.

No where does it say we HAVE to give these people this money. Atop of that, the general public don't get to choose who gets the aid, or how much. But you don't hear "Stupid fucking greedy US Government." you hear "Stupid fucking greedy Americans".

Am I the only person thats getting sick of being blamed for shit I don't do? I work, I attend college (when I can afford it), a soild 20% of everything I make, I never see again (between income taxes, fees for college, sales tax, etc etc) and that 20% is used in ways I have no control.

Beyond that, like stated before, most of the places hit are third world countries. 15 million dollars is a TON of money when your re-building simple wooden huts/houses and supplying food. No one said we had to provide these people with the Hilton.

I'm still torn on this subject really. I feel really strongly that we have every right to tell the UN to STFU and shove it up their ass. But I still feel we should be giving that 15mil.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Adredrin

Originally posted by Nieninque
As rich nations we get to make all the decisions. We get to do things we want. If less wealthy countries disagree, we make them agree. We have the money and that brings power. We like showing how rich and powerful we are...until it comes to dealing with the after effects of things like this. Then we are that stingy fucker we are being accused of. If that makes you feel uncomfortable about yourself, then maybe you should look at why, because it is true.

No where does it say we HAVE to give these people this money. Atop of that, the general public don't get to choose who gets the aid, or how much. But you don't hear "Stupid fucking greedy US Government." you hear "Stupid fucking greedy Americans".

Touchy?
Firstly, we (rich nations) fleece the fuck out of poorer nations when it is to our interests (Tsa'ah already mentioned jobs in India as if that is us doing the Indians a favour - moreso it is more profitable to pay them less to do the same job that it would take to pay someone here to do the same thing.) We exploit them. As a result we have a moral obligation to do something about the crap things that happen in the places we are screwing into the earth.

Secondly, if you read the links that I posted earlier in the thread, it wasnt even about Americans...it was Rich nations that the UN said were being stingy. That would include the EU, Russia, Japan etc. The American media is just so fucking egotistical that they have this impending need to report it as "THE UN SAIYS WE R STINGEE!!!".

The US is included within that "rich nations" definition, but by no means is it alone in the (justifiable) criticism. And it's pretty fucking obvious that when people are talking about Nations, they are talking about the decision-makers within that nation (i.e. Government) rather than the man or woman on the street.

What does reflect on the man or woman on the street is the response that is seen in this thread "FUCK THEM THEN...IF THEY DONT LIKE WOT WE GAVE THEM, WE WILL TAKE OUR TROOPS HOME AND LEAVE THEM TO IT!" or "LETS INVADE THEM THEN...THAT WILL SHOW THEM!". That reflects on the average American...

[Trinitis]

No, we (The leading nations) don't fleece the lesser nations. The top 5% of the public (IE the very rich, large company owers) do. Personally, I get angry when I call a support place for something..and I'm talking to some guy in India. I did not ask of the jobs to be moved there. I'd rather them be here.

Once again, its choices we (as the public) pay for, but have no say in. It don't matter who we vote in, thats not going to change.


What does reflect on the man or woman on the street is the response that is seen in this thread "FUCK THEM THEN...IF THEY DONT LIKE WOT WE GAVE THEM, WE WILL TAKE OUR TROOPS HOME AND LEAVE THEM TO IT!" or "LETS INVADE THEM THEN...THAT WILL SHOW THEM!". That reflects on the average American...

Do I agree with these standings? No. Do I understand why they are upset? Absolutely. I guess I'm the only person that tries to understand where other people are comming from anymore. If Bill Gates donated $50,000 to help aid these people, most people would laugh and call him a greedy bastard. I'd call him a good man. He did not HAVE to give that money. $50,000 is a lot more then I can afford to donate (actually, its $50,000 more then I can afford to donate), so at least he is able and willing to help.

Never look a gift horse in the mouth, is how the saying goes if I remember right. I always grew up accepting, and being thankful for the small ammounts my parents gave to me. If I wanted more, I did not bitch about it. To do so was to get the funds removed period. What I did was get a job, and work for what I wanted.

[Nieninque]

What job do you think the Sri Lankans can get?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Nieninque
What job do you think the Sri Lankans can get?

I had not realized that it was the US's responsibility to make sure every nation on this planet was successfully taking care of all of it's citizens. I thought it was up to each country.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Nieninque
What job do you think the Sri Lankans can get?

Where in the rules of life is it our job to make sure every single person in the world has a job? We help were we can. We give what is an option to give. In case you forgot, we are in the middle of rebuilding another country right now. I don't care if you, or any other country agrees with what we did and are doing or not..we are doing it. Its costing lots of money. At the same time, we've got millions of people in the US starving and unable to support themselves. We've got our own damn problems.


But yes..we are suposed to forget everything and help Joe Blow in some distant country get a job, by paying his wages for a year.

FYI A while ago yesterday the US revised it to 35million for the first round of aid instead of 15mil.

[Warriorbird]

"I have zero faith that all the money we contribute to the UN will actually go to aid those that need it.. and not lining someone's pockets while they sit and watch. "

Yet you support America's efforts in Iraq.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
And no one is stopping Americans from contributing on their own. I know of at LEAST 4 different funds that have been set up in the Tampa Bay area to help with this disaster.

I simply think the UN has outlived their true usefulness. I have zero faith that all the money we contribute to the UN will actually go to aid those that need it.. and not lining someone's pockets while they sit and watch. Eh, I'm not posting to defend the usefulness or ueslessness of the UN. I'm simply saying our government should follow the example of regular citizens who are stepping up in extraordinary ways. Resources or money. Either way is beneficial.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
"I have zero faith that all the money we contribute to the UN will actually go to aid those that need it.. and not lining someone's pockets while they sit and watch. "

Yet you support America's efforts in Iraq.

Using the word "yet" there makes little sense as I have been a big outspoken opponent to how the UN lined their own greedy pockets with the Food for Oil Program and how they were completely ineffective in their 11 year dealing with Iraq. Iraq bolsters my case for disolving the UN.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by DeV
Eh, I'm not posting to defend the usefulness or ueslessness of the UN. I'm simply saying our government should follow the example of regular citizens who are stepping up in extraordinary ways. Resources or money. Either way is beneficial.

I think this disaster has once again demonstrated how kind and giving our great nation is.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by DeV
Eh, I'm not posting to defend the usefulness or ueslessness of the UN. I'm simply saying our government should follow the example of regular citizens who are stepping up in extraordinary ways. Resources or money. Either way is beneficial.

I think this disaster has once again demonstrated how kind and giving our great nation is. You might be right.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by DeV
Eh, I'm not posting to defend the usefulness or ueslessness of the UN. I'm simply saying our government should follow the example of regular citizens who are stepping up in extraordinary ways. Resources or money. Either way is beneficial.

I think this disaster has once again demonstrated how kind and giving our great nation is. You might be right.

Not sure what you would like the US to do immediately DeV. I think 35 million, teams of relief workers, military S&R, setting up a International Coalition to oversee the relief funds distributing, moratoriums on debts, US military supplies, etc is far and above anything the other countries are doing.

And this is just a start of our relief efforts for an area of the world that regards the United States the bad guy in the world.

[DeV]

Originally posted by ParkbanditThe UN classifying the US as "stingy" due to "ONLY" giving 15 million in initial aid towards the tsunami disaster really irritates me to no end.


Originally posted by Parkbandit
Not sure what you would like the US to do immediately DeV. I think 35 million, teams of relief workers, military S&R, setting up a International Coalition to oversee the relief funds distributing, moratoriums on debts, US military supplies, etc is far and above anything the other countries are doing.

And this is just a start of our relief efforts for an area of the world that regards the United States the bad guy in the world. I could see if the UN was the only one classifying us as stingy then you’d have a great point but they aren’t and you don’t. I can see where your irritation comes from and your reaction to the UN’s sentiments is understandable. However, we as a nation don’t take kindly to criticism even from our own fellow citizens so it’s understandable that we wouldn’t from outsiders. It went from 15 million to 35 million...that says something.

We're doing the right thing.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by ParkbanditThe UN classifying the US as "stingy" due to "ONLY" giving 15 million in initial aid towards the tsunami disaster really irritates me to no end.


Originally posted by Parkbandit
Not sure what you would like the US to do immediately DeV. I think 35 million, teams of relief workers, military S&R, setting up a International Coalition to oversee the relief funds distributing, moratoriums on debts, US military supplies, etc is far and above anything the other countries are doing.

And this is just a start of our relief efforts for an area of the world that regards the United States the bad guy in the world. I could see if the UN was the only one classifying us as stingy then you’d have a great point but they aren’t and you don’t. I can see where your irritation comes from and your reaction to the UN’s sentiments is understandable. However, we as a nation don’t take kindly to criticism even from our own fellow citizens so it’s understandable that we wouldn’t from outsiders. It went from 15 million to 35 million...that says something.

We're doing the right thing.

You see it going from 15 million to 35 million as a reaction to what the UN spokesperson said. I don't.

I think the US has ALWAYS been there for the world and this disaster was and will be no different. Climb aboard World.. we have mighty strong shoulders.

[Nieninque]

The news here just said that in Sri Lanka alone over 20 000 people died. Around 1.5 million people have lost their homes. Not mud huts, houses. Homes. You reckon that $24 a head is going to sort that out?
I dont.

And the saddest part of this debate is the whole "Why is it my job to bail them out? Why should I have to do anything?"

I hope you never live to be in a similar situation to them...

DEV do you know why it was only 15million in the first place? Because that was all that was in the fund. Now the U.S. Agency for International Development has to go to congress to beg for money because their coffers are empty.

[DeV]

The US has put itself in a position where we are EXPECTED to react better than any other country in a time of crisis. It's sort of like a side job or one that goes along with having the type of super-power and resources we posses.

I do believe the international reaction had something to do with the increase in aid because why such a small number initially?

read above post genius

[Sean]

Originally posted by Nieninque
The news here just said that in Sri Lanka alone over 20 000 people died. Around 1.5 million people have lost their homes. Not mud huts, houses. Homes. You reckon that $24 a head is going to sort that out?
I dont.

And the saddest part of this debate is the whole "Why is it my job to bail them out? Why should I have to do anything?"

I hope you never live to be in a similar situation to them...

Whats $1 US worth in Sri Lanka. I guess I'd have to know what the buying power of the $24 is before I'd scoff at it.

[Nieninque]

I'm pretty sure it isnt 1/35th of a house

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave
read above post genius I can't say the same for you.





The US Agency for International Development on Tuesday added $20 million to an earlier pledge of $15 million, soon after UN Emergency Relief Coordinator Jan Egeland had characterised the aid earlier announced by the US and other Western countries as "stingy."
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1175012,00130154.htm It is probably a biased source. I found this article while trying to locate sources to confirm your statement.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Just because I'm curious, for all those saying the United States should send tons more aid, how much have you contributed so far?

[GSTamral]

The UN, from where the statement generated, has shown the smallest mobilization of manpower to the region.

Japan, US, India, and Australia have shown the largest mobilization.

[DeV]

The increase to 35 million says alot. The United States, namely, Colin Powell has already stated that more aid will likely follow in the future and will surpass the numbers we are seeing today. I think regular citizens are doing an excellent job as well. Humanitarian aid will always surpass that of government aid in times like this and that speaks volumes.
My girlfriend and I have made cash donations through the Red Cross.

[GSTamral]

My company will be flying in large amounts of supplies once they are allowed to land there. It is actually very difficult to get aid there right now. Very difficult.

[Parkbandit]

I ate at an Indian Restaurant on Monday.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I haven't donated anything yet, and not sure I will. I did renew my annual donation to the National Head Start Association yesterday though.

Just curious how much those who scream that the United States doesn't do enough are donating or their own money.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
I haven't donated anything yet, and not sure I will.

H8T3R!!11

[Sean]

I'm curious to the people insisting that we should send more aid in terms of dollars where they would draw the line? Do we rebuild every house? What would be an acceptable amount? Can we ever give enough?

[DeV]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I ate at an Indian Restaurant on Monday. Now that's where I draw the line. I tried Indian food once and :barf:

[Iqxero]

Originally posted by Tijay
Whats $1 US worth in Sri Lanka. I guess I'd have to know what the buying power of the $24 is before I'd scoff at it.

At todays exchange rate, an American dollar is about 104.35 Sri Lankan rupees.


Edited because P /= E.

[Edited on 12-29-2004 by Iqxero]

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Nieninque
The news here just said that in Sri Lanka alone over 20 000 people died. Around 1.5 million people have lost their homes. Not mud huts, houses. Homes. You reckon that $24 a head is going to sort that out?
I dont.

And the saddest part of this debate is the whole "Why is it my job to bail them out? Why should I have to do anything?"

I hope you never live to be in a similar situation to them...

Since your better at finding these facts, reports, numbers, etc etc..

Do me a favor. Find out how much Aid the US got when half of new york was shattered into peices and our national stock market fell through the floor.

Thanks :)

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

While part of me wants to agree with you Adredrin, I'm not a proponent of a walled in nation that doesn't interact with others. We should act as we want the rest of the world to act, instead of letting them dictate to us how we should.

We should send aid, but we should also focus on programs within the US. How much aid we send should not be determined by our GNP or any thing else, but by how much we can afford to aid them, and still maintain our own budgets/programs/etc.

[Trinitis]

As I stated in my first post of this thread, I think we SHOULD be giving aid. What I don't agree with is A) The general public gets no say so in who we aid, or how much we send. And B) No mater how much we aid, or who we help, it is never "good enough" for the other countries in the world. I'm sick of them bitching at us, when most of the time, its the US thats the first to hand out huge sums of money.

[Tsa`ah]

Here's a potential solution.

Make all formal gatherings (balls, galas, inaugurations, etc .. ) BYOB and get your own damned cab.

We'll save billions just for this kind of shit.


[Edited on 12-29-2004 by Tsa`ah]

[Iqxero]

I also don't really think it's fair to say we are donating 24 dollars per person that lost their home. I think it's fairer to say we are donating 0 dollars to each person for their home.

Someone from Florida might be able to correct me if I'm wrong, but when hurricanes wipe out stretches of your state, the government aid money isn't being divvied up to replace houses. It's being sent to restore power, rebuild roads, administer medical aid and food to people who have no where else to eat or sleep anymore. I took it to mean that if you didn't have insurance on your home or possessions, you where SOL.

I know next to nothing about Sri Lanka's geography, but isn't (or wasn't) about half of it 3 feet above sea level? I would not then consider it a far stretch of the imagination to think that some if not most of the houses and buildings destroyed did have some insurance coverage of one form or another.

We are sending money to recover bodies from the water and destroyed buildings, clear out the debris from said buildings, rebuild roads and power grids, and to provide the system for which the Sri Lanka people can (through whatever means available to them) rebuild their own homes, resorts, and what have you.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Iqxero
I also don't really think it's fair to say we are donating 24 dollars per person that lost their home. I think it's fairer to say we are donating 0 dollars to each person for their home.

Someone from Florida might be able to correct me if I'm wrong, but when hurricanes wipe out stretches of your state, the government aid money isn't being divvied up to replace houses. It's being sent to restore power, rebuild roads, administer medical aid and food to people who have no where else to eat or sleep anymore. I took it to mean that if you didn't have insurance on your home or possessions, you where SOL.

I know next to nothing about Sri Lanka's geography, but isn't (or wasn't) about half of it 3 feet above sea level? I would not then consider it a far stretch of the imagination to think that some if not most of the houses and buildings destroyed did have some insurance coverage of one form or another.

We are sending money to recover bodies from the water and destroyed buildings, clear out the debris from said buildings, rebuild roads and power grids, and to provide the system for which the Sri Lanka people can (through whatever means available to them) rebuild their own homes, resorts, and what have you.

:yeahthat:

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I ate at an Indian Restaurant on Monday. Now that's where I draw the line. I tried Indian food once and :barf:

Yea.. but all the proceeds for the day were going to the relief fund.. so I took my management staff out to lunch there.

Yea.. not a big fan.. MUCH rather have a cheeseburger.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Here's a potential solution.

Make all formal gatherings (balls, gallas, inagurations, etc .. ) BYOB and get your own damned cab.

We'll save billions just for this kind of shit.

Serve hot dogs at all official functions. Vegetarians get a carrot on a bun instead, ketchup optional.

Heads of state are greeted by a grade school band throwing home-made confetti.

White Apartment rather than White House.

AirForce1 traded-in for AirBus1.

The House of Representatives stops holding elections every freakin' 2 years. 6 year staggered terms, 2 terms tops for all high level Federal jobs except the Presidency, INCLUDING the Supreme Court.

Nix "No Child Left Behind" or rename it the more appropriate "Unmanageable Teacher Evaluation with Unrealistic Goals."

Jorddyn, semi-serious

[DeV]

:yeahthat:

[Sean]

I might be an asshole for saying this but why is this that much different than any other natural disaster. Where was everyone harping for more more more when Ivan devistated the Grenada and Jamaica? Were we at home watching election news? Worrying about Florida? No big humanitarian outcry for 90% of Grenada's population that was effected. Did the US give aid? Of course we did because thats what we do. Did the UN give aid? Yea they did too. But no one suggesting that we should solve everything for them. But whatever I'll conceed that this might just be my bias as my family was actually effected by Ivan.

[Nieninque]

Actually, no-one is saying that the US should solve everything for Sri Lanka and the other countries affected by this.
Someone was bitching about a misrepresented news report where someone said that rich nations are so tight that they squeak when they walk. From there the discussion descended into Why are people so mean about teh US when we help everyone out?

It isnt any different from any natural disaster. It will soon be forgotten by all who arent directly affected by it

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Nieninque
What does reflect on the man or woman on the street is the response that is seen in this thread "FUCK THEM THEN...IF THEY DONT LIKE WOT WE GAVE THEM, WE WILL TAKE OUR TROOPS HOME AND LEAVE THEM TO IT!" or "LETS INVADE THEM THEN...THAT WILL SHOW THEM!". That reflects on the average American... I am extremely confident that the average American is neither a soldier nor a frequent wearer of hats with Communist Party logos. I am less confident that the American you speak of was joking, but still pretty sure.

Yay for Japan, btw. It's nice to see how far they've come.

Christ, 24 US dollars can buy a whole fucking village there. I swear, that place looked no different before the Tsunami than after the Tsunami. Perhaps this is just a way to whipe out those horrible villages and start things back up normally.

- Arkans

This 15 million can be used to help US citizens that need the help. I can't believe this, why arn't we helping Americans first?

[Methais]

Kinda like Noah's Ark! AT CHRISTMAS TOO IT R SIGN FR0M G0D OMGZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111

[Edited on 12-30-2004 by Methais]

FUCKING PWNED!!!!!111111

- Arkans

:shoot::shoot::shoot::shoot:

[GSLeloo]

What I find so horrible is that people are fighting over numbers when thousands of people just lost their lives... does that seem a little ridiculous? Anything is better than nothing and we shouldn't use a tragedy to attack one another.

[Warriorbird]

Laughing at other countries' disasters really displays a lot of balls. Gosh.

[Edited on 12-30-2004 by Warriorbird]

[Syberus]

No one gave me shit when my house burned down and I live in this country.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Nieninque
I'm pretty sure it isnt 1/35th of a house

What the fuck?

It's not America's job to rebuild every single house. It is a world effort.

Jesus Christ, whine more.

[Warriorbird]

I liked the recent comparison between the costs of the Bush inaguration and the amount of aid promised.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
I liked the recent comparison between the costs of the Bush inaguration and the amount of aid promised.

I expect you would.. seeing how you hate Bush and that hatred makes you prone to illogical comparisons.

It's like comparing it to the cost of Clinton's Library... it's a stupid comparison that makes you look like you have a personal grudge more than you have a valid point.

[Hulkein]

I find it sad that people use the death of over 100,000 people as a vehicle for political gain.

[Warriorbird]

I don't hate Bush. I just disagree with a lot of his decisions/what he stands for. The only politician I actually actively hate is not an American.

I think the "UN biting the hand that feeds it." is just about as partisan and just about as silly. Attacking the UN is a blatantly divisive action that has serious repurcussions and has been used for political gain.

If anything I was amused by the comparison. That's pretty sick in retrospect. But those type of actions only count as bad when non Republicans do it. You sure didn't call out Arkans and Methais for similar, Hulkein.

[Edited on 12-31-2004 by Warriorbird]

[Hulkein]

I wasn't really talking about you Warriorbird, more the politicians and pundits who actually came up with the comparison and have been using it to further their cause.

[GSLeloo]

I agree with Hulkein. It's not just one side it's all sides. This is a world tragedy and it's no one's fault, there's no country to blame and start a war over. It is simply a pure tragedy and to argue over money and use it to mudsling is ridiculous and incredibly sad.

[Warriorbird]

Eh. No one is untainted by it. From Lee Atwater and Karl Rove to James Carville or Micheal Moore, the pool is always dirty.

[DeV]

Exactly. Wars usually start over the most miniscule of reasons. Sometimes over missunderstandings and other times its those wishing to further their political career. Even in times of mass disaster politics will find its way into the mix.

I still fail to see how this disaster is America's problem in the least. Arn't people whining here that schools are underfunded? 15 million would be a step in the right direction.

- Arkans

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Arkans
I still fail to see how this disaster is America's problem in the least. Arn't people whining here that schools are underfunded? 15 million would be a step in the right direction.

- Arkans

15 mill? Replace that million with billion and I'll agree.

15 mill may help a small inner city district with structural up keep but not much beyond that.

On a side note, some of the complaints can die now. India, while accepting our jobs with open arms, is refusing foreign aid specifically aimed for disaster relief. They will however accept the annual aid checks ... just nothing for the disaster.

I think aiding one American school district is a far more worthy cause.

- Arkans

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird

I think the "UN biting the hand that feeds it." is just about as partisan and just about as silly. Attacking the UN is a blatantly divisive action that has serious repurcussions and has been used for political gain.


I don't think it's just a Republican idea that the UN's usefulness in this world is minimal and has been quickly degrading for a while now. I don't think it's just a Republican investigation that uncovered the widespread corruption in the UN with such programs as the "Oil for Food" program.

I do believe that if you are comparing the amount spent on the Inaugural ceremony of George Bush to the amount of aid we initially contributed to the tsunami stricken countries.. then you are in fact doing so for political gain... however retarded the actual comparison is. I would be just as critical on the retarded Republicans for comparing it to the 125 million that was spent on Clinton’s Library in Arkansas. I'm just thankful I didn't hear any stupid comparisons from them.. yet.

[Warriorbird]

Just did. And denying the anti UN stuff is a Republican idea is just hilarious, man. Look at the people who forwarded it. Coincidentally they all happen to be conservatives. Hmm.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Just did. And denying the anti UN stuff is a Republican idea is just hilarious, man. Look at the people who forwarded it. Coincidentally they all happen to be conservatives. Hmm.

I was using the cost of Clinton's Library to show you how stupid your comparison was. I'm sorry you were unable to get that from my posting.

So.. as a Democrat.. you have no problem with the UN's "Oil for Food" program with pre-war Iraq?

Why does that not surprise me.

[Warriorbird]

You're a Republican. You're attacking it right now. All the people who've brought those notions forward are Republicans. It's been used for political gain... by Republicans. The same people who care about Iraq but didn't give a damn about Rwanda. Yeah. So damn moral. The same people who are supposed to be about fiscal responsibility... yet aren't unless it's somebody else's fiscal responsibility.

Shockingly enough, I have a problem with many things the UN does. At the same time, as a person, I understand that international diplomacy is actually useful.

Mmm. Failiures to communicate.

It's amusing hearing the "I'm not bias you are!" comeing from WarriorBird.

[Parkbandit]

Oh.. so whenever someone posts something that they themselves consider a retarded comparison.. that automatically MUST be their belief.

YOU posted this: I liked the recent comparison between the costs of the Bush inaguration and the amount of aid promised.

Obviously you meant to bring this into the debate to show that Bush is stupid for spending that much on his inaguration and not spending so much more for the aid.

I in turn posted this:

It's like comparing it to the cost of Clinton's Library... it's a stupid comparison that makes you look like you have a personal grudge more than you have a valid point.

I even stated that IT'S A STUPID COMPARISON... so I obviously don't agree with it. Clearly I posted that to show you how fucking retarded your argument was. It does NOT mean I agree with it.

I can't debate with you Warriorbird.. because you simply lack the fundamental skills.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
YOU posted this: I liked the recent comparison between the costs of the Bush inaguration and the amount of aid promised.

Obviously you meant to bring this into the debate to show that Bush is stupid for spending that much on his inaguration and not spending so much more for the aid.
Maybe it's just me but I thought he was saying he found the comparisons amusing to the point of being ridiculous.

[Tsa`ah]

It doesn't matter what either posted, it would be taken as bias.

The inauguration, the mayoral ball, any state event since the birth of the office of the President of the US, Congress, Senate, and the Supreme court ... is overly extravagant over priced and of no benefit to anyone but those in power or chums to those in power.

We need to stop footing the bills for parties and libraries. Fuck them, living or dead.

The people are better served with that cash going to where it's needed. Be it in the states or over seas.

Fuck ... buy some god damned armor for our troops and stop pissing it away on first class air fair, security, and lodging for suck ups who can afford to pay for that shit on their own.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Parkbandit
YOU posted this: I liked the recent comparison between the costs of the Bush inaguration and the amount of aid promised.

Obviously you meant to bring this into the debate to show that Bush is stupid for spending that much on his inaguration and not spending so much more for the aid.
Maybe it's just me but I thought he was saying he found the comparisons amusing to the point of being ridiculous.

It's you. Being a reader of Warriorbird's past posts.. I do not believe that it was his intention to show how stupid some Democrats were by comparing the two. He certainly would have used a better term than "liked" if he had.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
It doesn't matter what either posted, it would be taken as bias.

The inauguration, the mayoral ball, any state event since the birth of the office of the President of the US, Congress, Senate, and the Supreme court ... is overly extravagant over priced and of no benefit to anyone but those in power or chums to those in power.

We need to stop footing the bills for parties and libraries. Fuck them, living or dead.

The people are better served with that cash going to where it's needed. Be it in the states or over seas.

Fuck ... buy some god damned armor for our troops and stop pissing it away on first class air fair, security, and lodging for suck ups who can afford to pay for that shit on their own.

If you say that we should save this money and put it back into our country.. I'm all for it.

If you say that we should save this money and give it away to all the other countries of the world.. I'll disagree.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
It's you. Being a reader of Warriorbird's past posts.. I do not believe that it was his intention to show how stupid some Democrats were by comparing the two. He certainly would have used a better term than "liked" if he had.


Originally posted by Warriorbird
If anything I was amused by the comparison. That's pretty sick in retrospect. But those type of actions only count as bad when non Republicans do it.

[Tsa`ah]

There are many ways to utilize such funds over-seas that will directly benefit US citizenry and US military personnel abroad.

Sometimes it is necessary to aid people other than ourselves, just not at the expense of ourselves. Unfortunately ... that is what our government does.

[Parkbandit]

It's called backtracking on it when he was called out. He's a damn Democrat.. it's almost 2nd nature.

:D

How would aiding Sri Lanka (then getting ripped by the UN) help US citizens or the US Military?

- Arkans

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Arkans
How would aiding Sri Lanka (then getting ripped by the UN) help US citizens or the US Military?

- Arkans

And this would be believable if you believed in helping the poor and those with less lifechances in your own country. Just when people propose that initiatives are aimed at those groups that need it in the US, the argument is "Why should my tax dollars go towards paying for .."

single parents
children
poor people
minority ethnic groups
upgrading shit housing estates
minimum wage
etc etc

Basically, Arkans wants his money spent only in ways that he personally benefits. Well, it just doesnt work that way.

Neininque, you obviously know very little to nothing about my political beliefs. I'll ask the following questions and if you can answer them, then by all means, you are correct. If not, then FUCKING PWNED!!!11

1. How does aiding soldiers abroad help ME PERSONALLY?

2. How does aiding an under funded school district help ME PERSONALLY?

3. How does upgrading an under funded police precinct aid ME PERSONALLY?

4. How does creating work programs for the poor AID ME PERSONALLY?

Neininque, there really is no direct way, besides putting a smile in my face. So please do all of us a favor and actually learn what I stand for when it comes to my country before trying to make a comment about me.

What do I believe in short? An excellent life for all AMERICAN CITIZENS before even considering to aid people of other countries.

- Arkans

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Nieninque

And this would be believable if you believed in helping the poor and those with less lifechances in your own country. Just when people propose that initiatives are aimed at those groups that need it in the US, the argument is "Why should my tax dollars go towards paying for .."

single parents
children
poor people
minority ethnic groups
upgrading shit housing estates
minimum wage
etc etc

Basically, Arkans wants his money spent only in ways that he personally benefits. Well, it just doesnt work that way.

Guess I'm an asshole. I'd rather my taxes go to most of those you've listed. I hate the raising of the Minimum wage crap..so I don't agree with that one.

But I'd rather see my taxes going to helping people here in the US, as long as they are actually NEEDY, and not people just sucking off the US tit. I can't stand the people who are milking the welfare system by dropping another puppy every 10 months, insted of working like a normal human.

And yes, raising the minimum wage is just about the dumbest thing you can do.

- Arkans

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Arkans

What do I believe in short? An excellent life for all AMERICAN CITIZENS before even considering to aid people of other countries.

- Arkans

And that is what disgusts me about you and your kind.

[Syberus]

Originally posted by Arkans
And yes, raising the minimum wage is just about the dumbest thing you can do.

- Arkans

Economically speaking it really wouldn't have any effect on the long run, so yes it's incredibly stupid.

Once again, the left preaching tolerance.

What disgusts me about your kind is that you would shove a dagger into the back of your country for a bunch of people that spit on you. Shame, shame, shame, shame.

- Arkans

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Nieninque

And that is what disgusts me about you and your kind.

Ok...So you'd rather feel good about yourself for sending a bunch of aid to another country, then use that money to aid the suffering and help the people who live next to you?

Is that not a very...self distruction point of view?

Edit to add : I HATE YOU ARKANS

Ahem. What he said.

[Edited on 12-31-2004 by Adredrin]

:whistle:

- Arkans

[GSLeloo]

I think circumstance matters. If we're comparing a homeless man in America who won't try and get even a job like at McDonalds (which makes that by choice) to a natural disaster where there was no choice involved it just happened... I'd rather give it to them.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Adredrin
I can't stand the people who are milking the welfare system by dropping another puppy every 10 months, insted of working like a normal human. To add to that it's not only those who are having children and on welfare. It's also men and women around our age(early 20s) who are abusing the system on a state level.

From subsidized housing to receiving money from the local authorities for being out of work(by choice) in order to pay their utility bills to those who have full time jobs and are not letting the housing authorities know this and pay little to no rent.

The abuses of the welfare system are non discriminatory as this is a issue currently benefiting white males to black females and everyone else in between. I'd rather my tax dollars not help any one of them.

This is completely a non-issue though. There are so many US citizens that could use the help (and would appreciate it) that it isn't funny.

- Arkans

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Arkans
Once again, the left preaching tolerance.

What disgusts me about your kind is that you would shove a dagger into the back of your country for a bunch of people that spit on you. Shame, shame, shame, shame.

- Arkans

First of all, how would I?
Secondly, how have the people in Sri Lanka spit on you?
I just have this vision of a whole bunch of people from different places sharing the planet we live on...I know, idealistic, but I like that. It sickens me when people are like "No...I dont want to give to those people who have been killed in their fucking hundred thousands, because I would like a better school here...so until that has happened, those black people can continue to die because I dont care."

When 9/11 happened, I was in no way shape or form affected directly. Apart from the fact that it was the day before my birthday, which made my birthday sucky...but thats highly superficial. In real terms, I wasnt affected.

Were there people in the UK that were badly off at the time that happened? Sure there were. There still are. Did I object to money being sent to the US? No. In fact, do you know what I did? I phoned the council up and got permission to do facepainting in town to raise money for the relief fund. I raised over £100 ($200), because I was fucking sickened by the devastation that had been caused and the loss to so many families. I guess that's me sticking a knife in the back of my country huh? Oh...actually it isnt. It's called humanitarianism. It's called looking out for people and helping people who need it because they are people who need it. No qualifications. They are in need.

If that makes me bad, Arkans, fuck...I'm bad. At this point in time, the people in Sri Lanka are pretty much in need and your "I am only into helping out AMERICANS" point of view disgusts me. Truly. I almost feel as though I wasted my time, effort and compassion doing things for your country men and women, but I know that not everyone is so egocentric as you, so I dont.

[Edited on 31-12-04 by Nieninque]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Adredrin

Originally posted by Nieninque

And that is what disgusts me about you and your kind.

Ok...So you'd rather feel good about yourself for sending a bunch of aid to another country, then use that money to aid the suffering and help the people who live next to you?

Is that not a very...self distruction point of view?
Very valid points but what I have a problem with is the fact that the government has this money set aside for times of disaster for other countries already when it could be used to benefit those who need it in our own country. So, it's not as if we as citizens have a say so on how the money is being spent. It ultimately falls on the governments hands.
We complain that we shouldn't send the money overseas but in retrospect we do not make those decisions. We do not have that power.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Adredrin

Originally posted by Nieninque

And that is what disgusts me about you and your kind.

Ok...So you'd rather feel good about yourself for sending a bunch of aid to another country, then use that money to aid the suffering and help the people who live next to you?

Is that not a very...self distruction point of view?

Edit to add : I HATE YOU ARKANS

Ahem. What he said.

[Edited on 12-31-2004 by Adredrin]

Actually, I would rather this money be sent abroad to help people who are dying, than be spent on arms.

That would be so non-destructive it's unbelievable.

First of all, how would I?

Secondly, how have the people in Sri Lanka spit on you?
I just have this vision of a whole bunch of people from different places sharing the planet we live on...I know, idealistic, but I like that. It sickens me when people are like "No...I dont want to give to those people who have been killed in their fucking hundred millions, because I would like a better school here...so until that has happened, those black people can continue to die because I dont care."

Neininque, please understand the usage of simple sayings. I understand people are not "spitting on me" in a literal sense. Why does it sicken you when people want to aid their own country? Help their own homes? You'd rather England suffer and send money over to some third world country? Yeesh, I feel bad for the citizens of your country. Also, why do you always bring in race Neininque? No one here mentioned skin color, but you threw it out quite quickly, perhaps you are really the rascist one? Oh, and by the way, idealism never leads to success, realism on the other hand does.

Go ahead and feel like you wasted your time helping my country as well, Neininque. We don't need your money if you are going to hold it over our heads everytime Americans complain about spending money in ways we disagree with. What *IS* stabbing your country in the back is screaming about how money that is badly needed by said country's citizens over to some unappreciative disaster area.

- Arkans

And shit, Neininque, if you want to hold stuff over the head of Americans, we can just as easily go further back and say, "WELL YOU BRITZ OWE US ERVRYTHING CUZ IF IT WAZ NOT 4 US U'D ALL B SPEEKING GERMAN OR RUSSIAN"... Give me a fucking break. I really hope England has some patriots left or a thought process like this is going to screw over some people real soon real hard.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by DeV
Very valid points but what I have a problem with is the fact that the government has this money set aside for times of disaster for other countries already when it could be used to benefit those who need it in our own country. So, it's not as if we as citizens have a say so on how the money is being spent. It ultimately falls on the governments hands.
We complain that we shouldn't send the money overseas but in retrospect we do not make those decisions. We do not have that power.

Agreed DeV. If people remember from my first post in this thread, I feel we SHOULD be giving aid. I agree with helping them. What I don't agree with is us (as in the US) being called "stingy" because we only sent X ammount. Thats bullshit. We give what we give. The last people to be complaining about donations should be the people getting the donations.

I'm having money problems myself IRL right now, and if my parents or a friend gave me a few bucks, I sure as hell ain't going to cry about it not being enough! Luckly, I've got great friends, and a wonderful mother (when she's not being weird..) and I think I'll be ok.

But 15 million dollars is 15 million dollars. 95 million dollars is 95 millions dollars. Money is money. It's all helpful, no matter the ammount. Am I the only person who holds this point of view?

So yes, maybe Arkans is being a little too far to one side or the other (I can never tell far left from far right..mainly cause I never really care to figure it out). But I can see his point of view. If your just going to bitch about what we give you. Then STFU and give it back.

Far right, Adredrin. I am very proud to consider myself a nationalist.

- Arkans

[DeV]

I don't feel that anyone besides an American citizen has a right to say the US isn't doing enough, IMO. I agree with you in that respect. Any amount will make a difference at this point. However, I don't think the people who have been directly affected by this disaster has bitched about anything or said we haven't given enough. They are too busy counting their dead and trying to locate lost loved ones.

How many have stepped up to tell the UN to STFU and are thankful to America though?

- Arkans

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Arkans
Neininque, please understand the usage of simple sayings. I understand people are not "spitting on me" in a literal sense.

So explain the metaphorical spitting that is going on, because I dont get it...


Why does it sicken you when people want to aid their own country? Help their own homes?

That's not what sickens me. It sickens me when people will only help their own, to the exclusion of all others. Thats the sick part. Helping out your countrymen is fine and dandy, but US citizens lose nothing by helping out those hit by this tsunami.


You'd rather England suffer and send money over to some third world country? Yeesh, I feel bad for the citizens of your country.

As I said, the citizens of those countries that have offered aid will not be disadvantaged by the governments of those countries doing so.


Also, why do you always bring in race Neininque? No one here mentioned skin color, but you threw it out quite quickly,

Because it just so happens that it is 100k black people that are dying. If it was 100k white people, it would be a different response.
<edited out a bunch of typical jingoistic BS>

[HarmNone]

I grew up in Indonesia; not on the island of Sumatra, which has been devastated by this disaster, but on Java to its south. This has hit me pretty hard, since I came to love the country and its people. I've travelled in Sri Lanka, and remember very fondly the lovely town of Trincomalee, with its friendly, outgoing people, which was hit hard by the tsunami.

Am I willing to help? Damned right I am! Will I give all that I can? Damned right I will! Do I give here? Same freaking answer! Those who need, and deserve, help are not deserving because of their location, their ethnicity, nor their skin color. They are deserving simply because of their need.

[GSLeloo]

I think that it's hard to compare schools needing repair and homeless people with things like this. http://www.themaxx.com/offensive/pages/picpile/19130.php

But that's just me and I know people have different opinions but that picture I think is the difference.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Adredrin
What I don't agree with is us (as in the US) being called "stingy"

And therein lies the problem.
The US wasnt highlighted as being stingy. It was a comment about RICH NATIONS...which accounts for several countries, not just the US.

Egotistical or what?

[DeV]

Originally posted by Arkans
How many have stepped up to tell the UN to STFU and are thankful to America though?

- Arkans We're waiting on you!

But seriously, when it comes down to it the UN has little to no influence in the policies governing America and what actions we take concerning other countries.
We can take the heat and tell them to shove it in ways that the average Joe would never know about.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Nieninque
I just have this vision of a whole bunch of people from different places sharing the planet we live onSo long as they aren't drug users, right?
Originally posted by Arkans
idealism never leads to successThanks to people like you. :(

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Nieninque
I just have this vision of a whole bunch of people from different places sharing the planet we live onSo long as they aren't drug users, right?

Provided they arent attacking other people, they fit into my ideal

Neininque, how is it that I can avoid bringing up race and making it a factor, but you can't? Really, put your racial views and biases aside for a bit and discuss the facts. Yeesh, it gets old with you sometimes.

Also, no one here will ever convince me that a life from another country should be more important to me than a life of an American citizen. Sorry, we have people living here in terrible conditions. They could use a helping hand and I say take the 15 million and help these people. So no, the citizens won't be disadvantaged, but they sure as hell won't be helped in anyway.

Damn the UN and their European lackies who want to call Americans stingy. We've given more to this planet than any country could have hoped to, yet we are still stingy. Give me a break.

- Arkans

Uhh..

Latrinsorm, shall we start naming off idealistic views that failed miserably that really wern't influenced by my type of thinking?

- Arkans

[Syberus]

You realize that we are.. one of those rich nations.. and by calling them stingy it includes us right?

[DeV]

I'd like to see those Saudi bastards offer some of their billions toward the relief effort.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Arkans
Neininque, how is it that I can avoid bringing up race and making it a factor, but you can't? Really, put your racial views and biases aside for a bit and discuss the facts. Yeesh, it gets old with you sometimes.

I say it outright. It is implicit in what you say.
Saying "I'm not a racist", doesnt make it true,


Also, no one here will ever convince me that a life from another country should be more important to me than a life of an American citizen.

Do you think it is as important as that of an American citizen?


Sorry, we have people living here in terrible conditions. They could use a helping hand and I say take the 15 million and help these people. So no, the citizens won't be disadvantaged, but they sure as hell won't be helped in anyway.

I say, sure, help out those at home...but rather than taking the money from people that are more needy that the ones you prioritise, take away the money that is spent on pointless things like election campaigns, government transport costs, buraucracy...and use that to help the needy.


Damn the UN and their European lackies who want to call Americans stingy. We've given more to this planet than any country could have hoped to, yet we are still stingy. Give me a break.

- Arkans I repeat...this wasnt targeted at the US. But then you have your head so fucking firmly implanted up your own arse, you will never hear that message, even if it is on neon flashing lights on top of the white house.

The point was about rich nations being stingy. That included the "European lackies"

Newsflash. Not everything in llife is about the fucking US!

[HarmNone]

Agreed, DeV. I'm also wondering how much countries like Brunei and Kuwait have forked over...

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Syberus
You realize that we are.. one of those rich nations.. and by calling them stingy it includes us right?

Of course...as are the European "Lackies" that are being condemned by the US right wing on the PC.

[Edited on 31-12-04 by Nieninque]

[Syberus]

So by also including the European nations it no longer includes us? Regardless of who else it includes the US is still part of the statement.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

<I say, sure, help out those at home...but rather than taking the money from people that are more needy that the ones you prioritise, take away the money that is spent on pointless things like election campaigns, government transport costs, buraucracy...and use that to help the needy. >

But the US is Capitalist...

:soapbox:

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Syberus
So by also including the European nations it no longer includes us? Regardless of who else it includes the US is still part of the statement.

And it was also true.

At the time the statement was made, the amounts of aid that were being promised were pitiful. The US' 15 million dollars. The UK at the time had promised £400k with is around $800k. The EU collectively had offered 40 million dollars, but that isnt going to touch the costs of what is needed.

It was fair criticism.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Nieninque


And it was also true.

At the time the statement was made, the amounts of aid that were being promised were pitiful. The US' 15 million dollars. The UK at the time had promised £400k with is around $800k. The EU collectively had offered 40 million dollars, but that isnt going to touch the costs of what is needed.

It was fair criticism.

Right, cause people GIVING you money means your in your perfect right to bitch about it not being enough, right?

ITS FREE MONEY! YOU JUST GOT HANDED A 15 MILLION DOLLAR CHECK. STFU, SAY THANKYOU, AND SMILE!!

[Syberus]

Originally posted by Adredrin

Originally posted by Nieninque


And it was also true.

At the time the statement was made, the amounts of aid that were being promised were pitiful. The US' 15 million dollars. The UK at the time had promised £400k with is around $800k. The EU collectively had offered 40 million dollars, but that isnt going to touch the costs of what is needed.

It was fair criticism.

Right, cause people GIVING you money means your in your perfect right to bitch about it not being enough, right?

ITS FREE MONEY! YOU JUST GOT HANDED A 15 MILLION DOLLAR CHECK. STFU, SAY THANKYOU, AND SMILE!!


This is also kind of how I see it, I don't understand why these people are for some reason operating under the assumption that we owe them large sums of money. And that when we DO give money they complain about the amount. Now I realize that it was most likely not the people of the country themselves that complained, or even the country but the UN that said something, however the point remains.

Neininque, truly, I think it is YOU who is the rascist. No bones about it. You demand to put race into every single debate as if you think people of a different race than yours are inferior and you need to feel bad about it. Seriously, leave it alone. Race isn't part of this. Take YOUR rascist beliefs and put them on hold. Yeesh. There really is a time to fuck around and a time to have a normal debate, I'm sorry you can't seperate the two.

As of right now, I believe the US citizen is the most important thing there is to the US government and to other US citizens (OMG YES BLACK PEOPLE TOO SINCE U LUV TO BRING UP RACE!!11) and we shouldn't make any mistakes about this. The US government is here to provide for the people and it should do that first and worry about OTHER COUNTRIES second.

Hey, you want to talk about horrible beurocratic methods? LOOK AT YOUR OWN BACKYARD. Everytime I go to Europe I feel nauseus by all the red tape! It is absolutely ridiculous, to do anything there, you just about have to prove that you are NOT an elephant. Please, what we have in the US is NOTHING compared to the cluster fuck you have in Europe.

I think that European countries are FAR more stingy than the US is. How much did France give again? What? US gave more than England? Crap, sorry your podunk, elitist, socialist nation cannot do even 1/10th on its own to what the US can. Jealousy is a bitch.

- Arkans

[Trinitis]

Actually Arkans, as of this morning on the talk radio I have on, England donated roughly 95 million after getting called stingy.

FYI, it'll be used as a defense ;)

[Hulkein]

:up:

Hahahaha

I love it! The socialists scurry and panic when the big bad UN looks at them in a mean way. Good work, Koffi (however you spell your name, you corrupt fuck) you have one more socialist island in your pocket!

- Arkans

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Adredrin


Right, cause people GIVING you money means your in your perfect right to bitch about it not being enough, right?

ITS FREE MONEY! YOU JUST GOT HANDED A 15 MILLION DOLLAR CHECK. STFU, SAY THANKYOU, AND SMILE!!

It wasnt given to the UN. It was given in aid to the people that need it. The UN is well within it's rights to say WTF are we supposed to do with this.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Nieninque

It wasnt given to the UN. It was given in aid to the people that need it. The UN is well within it's rights to say WTF are we supposed to do with this.

Oh fucking christ. Pull your head out of your ass, then come post again later. Thanks.

[HarmNone]

Hold it a minute! The PEOPLE who were so horribly affected by this tragedy aren't saying anything to anybody. They're trying to find and deal with their dead loved ones, and recoup what lives they might have had before the tsunami hit and destroyed all in its path.

Words like "That ain't enough, sukkah!" aren't coming from these PEOPLE! They're coming from bureaucrats who don't know their asses from third base! Who the hell gives a flying fuck what those idiots say?

Believe me, the PEOPLE are thankful for anything and everything they get. I know they are. Many of them have told me so, face to face.

If we have to throw rocks, let's aim them in the proper direction, eh?

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Arkans
Neininque, truly, I think it is YOU who is the rascist. No bones about it. You demand to put race into every single debate as if you think people of a different race than yours are inferior and you need to feel bad about it. Seriously, leave it alone. Race isn't part of this. Take YOUR rascist beliefs and put them on hold. Yeesh. There really is a time to fuck around and a time to have a normal debate, I'm sorry you can't seperate the two.

I am not fucking around. That you dont realise that race plays a part in everything that happens (esp. in politics) only goes to confirm my thoughts about you.


As of right now, I believe the US citizen is the most important thing there is to the US government and to other US citizens (OMG YES BLACK PEOPLE TOO SINCE U LUV TO BRING UP RACE!!11) and we shouldn't make any mistakes about this. The US government is here to provide for the people and it should do that first and worry about OTHER COUNTRIES second.

Firstly, thanks for proving my point.
Secondly, of course a government should be looking after it's citizens. Guess what though? It doesnt exist in a vacuum. There is a whole world beyond the US borders and it can, whilst looking after (or possibly attempting to look after) its own - though I dont see much of that from Bush) can help out other people. That whole multi-tasking thing. The US pokes its fucking nose in where it wants to and then you are saying "Hey this has nothing to do with us"? Na uh. It doesnt work both ways.


Hey, you want to talk about horrible beurocratic methods? LOOK AT YOUR OWN BACKYARD. Everytime I go to Europe I feel nauseus by all the red tape! It is absolutely ridiculous, to do anything there, you just about have to prove that you are NOT an elephant. Please, what we have in the US is NOTHING compared to the cluster fuck you have in Europe.

You are going way off the mark here mister.
I hate the way the Government runs in the UK. I am not saying the US sucks and the UK is great. U am saying they both suck.


I think that European countries are FAR more stingy than the US is. How much did France give again? What? US gave more than England? Crap, sorry your podunk, elitist, socialist nation cannot do even 1/10th on its own to what the US can. Jealousy is a bitch.

Firstly, it's not a competition. Secondly, the UK matched the US.
Big deal. They were still both coerced into doing what they should have done from the start.

[Edited on 31-12-04 by Nieninque]

[Trinitis]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041231/ap_on_re_as/tsunami&cid=516&ncid=2337

There. Happy now? We've sent 350 million dollars, plust 2 full navy groups (a dozen ships) full of supplies. Atop of that, we are working in group with Japan, India, and Australia to coordinate a world wide relief and reconstruction effort.

So stop crying and move on now.

Edited to add :

Lets not forget the conversion..

so we've given 36,522,500,000 rupies to help pay for their food and rebuilding. Not including we are going to be assisted in the rebuilding efforts.

[Edited on 12-31-2004 by Adredrin]

[Warriorbird]

So...do you favor the war in Iraq, Arkans?

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Adredrin
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041231/ap_on_re_as/tsunami&cid=516&ncid=2337

There. Happy now? We've sent 350 million dollars, plust 2 full navy groups (a dozen ships) full of supplies.
[Edited on 12-31-2004 by Adredrin]

how many years would it take those countries to earn 350 million?

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
So...do you favor the war in Iraq, Arkans?

I am not Arkans but the war in Iraq is only creating a super Iran. So I am against it.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by theotherjohn

how many years would it take those countries to earn 350 million?

This is my concern..why?

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Adredrin

Originally posted by theotherjohn

how many years would it take those countries to earn 350 million?

This is my concern..why?

and yet you still responded

[Trinitis]

You directed the post at me, of course I'm going to respond.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Adredrin
You directed the post at me, of course I'm going to respond.

I was not aware using information you provided by quoting you was directing a post at you

Yes, I favor the war in Iraq

And Goddamn... I cannot believe we blew so much money on this.

- Arkans

Yes, I favor the war in Iraq

And Goddamn... I cannot believe we blew so much money on this.

- Arkans

[Warriorbird]

So.... what ground do you have to stand on making those other statements... relative to the $87 billion?

The $87 billion should have definatly been spent on the troops. I'll be damned if the US military is under equipped.

- Arkans

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Adredrin
What I don't agree with is us (as in the US) being called "stingy"

And therein lies the problem.
The US wasnt highlighted as being stingy. It was a comment about RICH NATIONS...which accounts for several countries, not just the US.

Egotistical or what?
Okay Im going to get a little offensive here i appologise up front.
Nieninque, you dumb Liberal Cunt. The comment made was that “Rich Western Countries who’s leaders [government] think their people want lower taxes “ You see We here in America have over the last few years had a debate about lower taxes. It has been much publicized in this country, so a UN official who lives in this country, sees this countries news, and makes a comment like that is obviously directing it at a certain place. How much has England's taxes gone down over the last few years?

again I am sorry it just pisses me off to no end when some foreigner thinks they can tell us what is right and wrong for our country to do and what our people can say or feel should be done with THEIR own god damn money.
Guess what else, YOU went out of your way to get money to help the US after 9/11 your fucking government didn’t send a damn dime so your argument can go fuck itself, along with you.


Sorry.

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Arkans
How many have stepped up to tell the UN to STFU and are thankful to America though?

- Arkans We're waiting on you!

But seriously, when it comes down to it the UN has little to no influence in the policies governing America and what actions we take concerning other countries.
We can take the heat and tell them to shove it in ways that the average Joe would never know about.

Are you clueless?
do you know how much time we wasted and how many lives we lost because we had to telegraph our invastion of Iraq though our actions at the UN. Wake up/

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave
:blah: :blah: :blah:

I started to respond to this, but realised it was the biggest pile of dogshit ever posted on PC, so decided not to bother.

Dave, you are a twat

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave

Are you clueless?
do you know how much time we wasted and how many lives we lost because we had to telegraph our invastion of Iraq though our actions at the UN. Wake up/

:rofl:

So lives were lost because you couldnt start killing people as soon as you would have liked?

Originally posted by Nieninque


I am not fucking around. That you dont realise that race plays a part in everything that happens (esp. in politics) only goes to confirm my thoughts about you.
my god, Perhaps in your world it does. I dont care what color anyone is, it means shit to me, as I am sure it does to most people (granted there are the exceptions like YOU) give it up already racist.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave
my god, Perhaps in your world it does. I dont care what color anyone is, it means shit to me, as I am sure it does to most people (granted there are the exceptions like YOU) give it up already racist.

LOL

I recognise that people are treated differently (despite assurances to the contrary from the colour-blind, such as yourself) according to their skin colour. Deny it all you want. Its the truth.

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Dave

Are you clueless?
do you know how much time we wasted and how many lives we lost because we had to telegraph our invastion of Iraq though our actions at the UN. Wake up/

:rofl:

So lives were lost because you couldnt start killing people as soon as you would have liked?

Yes American lives, which is what I am most concerned with. Soldiers who have given up everything to fight for America. Their lives are more important to me than anyones.

[Nieninque]

Those lives would have been saved a damn sight easier if there had been no invasion.

Uhm, when there is a delay in orders on how to react to the enemy, there will always be casualties. Please learn something about warfare.

- Arkans

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Dave
my god, Perhaps in your world it does. I dont care what color anyone is, it means shit to me, as I am sure it does to most people (granted there are the exceptions like YOU) give it up already racist.

LOL

I recognise that people are treated differently (despite assurances to the contrary from the colour-blind, such as yourself) according to their skin colour. Deny it all you want. Its the truth.
Watch out the white man is going to bring you down. The mentality you have only perpetuates what you want to see happen. When one expects something they will eventually find it.

Originally posted by Nieninque
Those lives would have been saved a damn sight easier if there had been no invasion.

Sometimes the means even though bad are worth the ends.

[Warriorbird]

But only when your party bosses say so. Never otherwise.

I suppose that those that follow blindly are the best soldiers.

:rolls eyes:

[Nakiro]

I know I'm treated differently because of my skin color. I can tell that there are some black, asian, or mexican people who think that when I'm trying to be conginel to them that I'm just acting like I'm better than them.

But you know, whatever floats your boat. I still say thank you for my burritto or thank my groccery bagger at the end of the night anyway.

Warriorbird, tell me, when have I been in a position to comment on our actions in other military conflicts?
Go ahead and ask me if we should have gone into the Balkans, I DARE YOU. Was not a (R) in office when that happened now was it?

I have learned a little something since I have been in Arizona, It is smart not to Assume, often what you think are facts can change or they never were really facts.

[Warriorbird]

Okay. Sure.

Balkans, Rwanda, Somalia...

North Korea or Nigeria for future hypotheticals.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Nakiro
I know I'm treated differently because of my skin color. I can tell that there are some black, asian, or mexican people who think that when I'm trying to be conginel to them that I'm just acting like I'm better than them.

But you know, whatever floats your boat. I still say thank you for my burritto or thank my groccery bagger at the end of the night anyway.

Most racist post in this thread yet.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Dave
Go ahead and ask me if we should have gone into the Balkans, I DARE YOU.

But do you double dog dare him?

One can only hope, toss Iran and Syria in there too. Might as well say China if they decide to see how big their balls are with Taiwan. I would support every damn one of them if “I” agree with the reasons for going there.

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage

Originally posted by Dave
Go ahead and ask me if we should have gone into the Balkans, I DARE YOU.

But do you double dog dare him?
Naw he was to scared to take the dare, he would wet himself if I dubble dogged him.

[Warriorbird]

"if “I” agree with the reasons for going there. "

That's the critical phrase, no? Ironically, I doubt you'd have agreed to those under Democratic leadership, because, "You" didn't agree with the reasons for going there.

Originally posted by Warriorbird
"if “I” agree with the reasons for going there. "

That's the critical phrase, no? Ironically, I doubt you'd have agreed to those under Democratic leadership, because, "You" didn't agree with the reasons for going there.

Um you missed it I think. : points to all the places you mentioned in your previous posts: the answer to the question of should we have gone in there with the United States Military is yes.
Clinton, who is a democrat, was in charge at the time. If Kerry was in charge right now I would still support all of those actions that I stated in my last post. Just because Bush is in charge does not mean that I agree with what is done. I agree with it because of my personal beliefs and convictions. Beliefs and convictions of my own that are strong enough that I am willing to put my life on the line to fight for. Can you say the same about yours? If so you are welcome to take up arms against the "American Aggressors" if you feel what we are doing is so wrong. (yes, yes that is an extreme but strong enough to prove my point)
What I believe drives my actions, not which political party is currently in charge of the government.

[Edited on 12-31-2004 by Dave]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Adredrin
What I don't agree with is us (as in the US) being called "stingy"

And therein lies the problem.
The US wasnt highlighted as being stingy. It was a comment about RICH NATIONS...which accounts for several countries, not just the US.

Egotistical or what?

As THE Richest nation on this world.. I don't think it's egotistical at all to assume the ill informed UN stooge was talking about the US.

[Warriorbird]

Eh. When you consider our deficit...no. With that said, I do think the fellow was.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Nieninque
Those lives would have been saved a damn sight easier if there had been no invasion.

In true British Fashion.. ala Chamberlain.

Well played Chap.

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage

Originally posted by Nakiro
I know I'm treated differently because of my skin color. I can tell that there are some black, asian, or mexican people who think that when I'm trying to be conginel to them that I'm just acting like I'm better than them.

But you know, whatever floats your boat. I still say thank you for my burritto or thank my groccery bagger at the end of the night anyway.

Most racist post in this thread yet.

My point exactly.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Eh. When you consider our deficit...no. With that said, I do think the fellow was.

You have no concept of what the deficit really is.. do you?

[Diamondback]

I have to admit that the recent increase in promised aid from the US should silence all but the most militant critics for some time.

U.S. Boosts Tsunami Aid Tenfold to $350M <-------------------------Click link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=4&u=/ap/20041231/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/tsunami_us)

[Warriorbird]

:chuckles: Just about as much concept as you do about international diplomacy.

[Warriorbird]

Certainly. I think that's a totally reasonable figure now.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
:chuckles: Just about as much concept as you do about international diplomacy.

God.. another stupid comparison.

I give.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Arkans
How would aiding Sri Lanka (then getting ripped by the UN) help US citizens or the US Military?

- Arkans

Never even suggested that. Apparently our system of public education needs some serious work.

However, not offering aid when we are able is a self destructive act. I'm not in favor of tempting karma in such a manner.

The point was/is frivolous spending at the expense of our citizenry.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by DeV
I'd like to see those Saudi bastards offer some of their billions toward the relief effort.

They're too busy spending the cash we send them.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Dave

Are you clueless?


This is not a question you should be asking.

[Fission]

One thing that bothered me was sifting through news, and right after reading about the amount of aid given for this tsunami, reading about Eric Milton getting $25.5 mil to play a game for 3 years.

There's plenty of very well-paid celebrities/entertainers who often feel they should have a say in politics too ... but where are they when people need help in circumstances like this?

:shrug:

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by Dave

Are you clueless?


This is not a question you should be asking.
What is it you’re implying with that comment? Am I clueless on things? Of course. Do I know some about how stalling an assault giving the enemy time to maneuver, adjust, and prepare for the attack and how that can affect the success of a mission? Yep. One of our militaries greatest strengths is our ability to surprise the enemy, even in large scale assaults.

Any specific question you wish to ask aside from making snide side comments that add nothing?

[Warriorbird]

"God.. another stupid comparison. "

I've been reading you too long.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Dave
Any specific question you wish to ask aside from making snide side comments that add nothing?

I would sooner seek out a zit faced 16 year old burger flipper for military question before asking your opinion on toilet paper.

To reiterate .... you, of all people, shouldn't ask people if they're clueless. A blind man doesn't know he's talking to another blind man unless he is told. You're not much different.

Since this thread has taken the ugly turn from disaster aid to Iraq, you have done nothing but shown ignorance ... which is par for the course, tiring but par.

We didn't have to go into Iraq. We had no reason. Our lives in the States and abroad were no in danger. Our troops were not sent in as defenders. They were sent in as poorly armored invaders.


Yes American lives, which is what I am most concerned with. Soldiers who have given up everything to fight for America. Their lives are more important to me than anyones.

Were they defending the US, I would agree. The lives of our troops were endangered by the administration, not the Iraqi.


Sometimes the means even though bad are worth the ends.

Go get shot up and come back with that attitude. I feel for anyone that has to serve next to you.


Naw he was to scared to take the dare, he would wet himself if I dubble dogged him. .

More like shit his self laughing. We can predict your responses with a 98% accuracy.

Tas' ah, you speak of my ignorance. yet to me yours is apparent to me at least. I'll leave it at that.

one more thing

Go get shot up and come back with that attitude. I feel for anyone that has to serve next to you.
Good thing you were to big of a pussy to join then huh, and you will never have to worry about fighting next to me. At least your "brother" got it right, and has my respect even though our paths have never and prolly will never cross.

[Edited on 1-1-2005 by Dave]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave
Are you clueless?
do you know how much time we wasted and how many lives we lost because we had to telegraph our invastion of Iraq though our actions at the UN. Wake up/ We have guys on the PC who are currently in Iraq and and don't spew anywhere close to the amount of nonsensical bullshit that you do. I can respect that. Your opinion on anything government related is laughable at best.

Tell me how many lives we lost because we had to telegraph our invasion of Iraq. I really want to know. Also, provide sources of your information.

Also, re-read my statement. The UN has LITTLE to NO (keywords: Little and No) say so on what our government does HERE in AMERICA or concerning other countries. The UN was against our invasion of IRAQ, but guess what, we went in anyway. That is a huge deal and hence the meaning behind my statement.

Now you wake the fuck up.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Dave
one more thing

Go get shot up and come back with that attitude. I feel for anyone that has to serve next to you.
Good thing you were to big of a pussy to join then huh, and you will never have to worry about fighting next to me. At least your "brother" got it right, and has my respect even though our paths have never and prolly will never cross.

[Edited on 1-1-2005 by Dave]

Not that I want to stick up for a bleeding heart liberal, but...

Not going into the military != being a pussy.

Make fun of his diplomacy via karma.. or any other thing he says regarding politics.

Making a statment that I he would feel bad if anyone was to go into combat with me because I hold political beliefs different from his own is just as foolish.

Originally posted by DeV
We have guys on the PC who are currently in Iraq and and don't spew anywhere close to the amount of nonsensical bullshit that you do. I can respect that. Your opinion on anything government related is laughable at best.

There are different jobs in the military, people have different knowledge and views on some things because of the jobs they do, what they learn to do those jobs, as well as personal views. (mind you that my views are very near the same as before my joining, and they have become more steadfast since.)


Tell me how many lives we lost because we had to telegraph our invasion of Iraq. I really want to know. Also, provide sources of your information.
You know I would not be able to give you numbers, but please use common sense. If you go to war, and people know your coming and have months to prepare, plan, and maneuver its going to go better for them than if they had only a week to do the same. If you can not understand that I won't be able to explain it to you any further.


Also, re-read my statement. The UN has LITTLE to NO (keywords: Little and No) say so on what our government does HERE in AMERICA or concerning other countries. [I heard exactly what you said there and responded to that part of it] The UN was against our invasion of IRAQ, but guess what, we went in anyway. That is a huge deal and hence the meaning behind my statement.

Number One, SOME members of the UN were against it, not the entire body. Two, the actions of a world body, no matter how corrupt, affects the decisions made in relation to foreign policy. If you think the UN has no influence on politics in this country I fear you have a lot to learn.

[Nieninque]

Dave youre a fucking moron.
You are unable to string together a bunch of words, spelled correctly and making sense in any language other than gibberish and yet you try to present as being able to make sense of highly complex arguements, when it is obviously a trial for you to get your buttons done up in order.
You joined the army and just as you finished your basic training became party to the reasoning for decisions made at presidential level. You were privvy to material and information that top generals would be having and you posted it here for our benefit. If we were to believe the bullshit you spew, President Bush calls you on the bat-phone to discuss his next decision.
You are a prick. No more. No less. You are an expert on nothing. You couldnt argue your way out of a WI meeting. Do us all a favour and fuck off.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave
Number One, SOME members of the UN were against it, not the entire body.

Actually, the majority were against it. Now what's that word that was being hoisted around all over the place in terms of justifying what's happening in Iraq? Oh yeah...DEMOCRACY. Now if the majority of the UN said lets not invade just now, WHAT HAPPENED TO DEMOCRACY? Oh yeah, its selective democracy.

:whistle:

[DeV]

Originally posted by Nieninque
Dave youre a fucking moron.
Thanks for summing it up Nieninque. You are not worth a reply, Dave.

[Tsa`ah]

Military turned me down in 91 Davie. Asthma and all.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Nieninque
Dave youre a fucking moron.
You are unable to string together a bunch of words, spelled correctly and making sense in any language other than gibberish and yet you try to present as being able to make sense of highly complex arguements, when it is obviously a trial for you to get your buttons done up in order.
You joined the army and just as you finished your basic training became party to the reasoning for decisions made at presidential level. You were privvy to material and information that top generals would be having and you posted it here for our benefit. If we were to believe the bullshit you spew, President Bush calls you on the bat-phone to discuss his next decision.
You are a prick. No more. No less. You are an expert on nothing. You couldnt argue your way out of a WI meeting. Do us all a favour and fuck off.

Were you around when he posted as Edine? I'd say just about everyone else here already came to that conclusion and just dismiss him as an egotistical wishes he knew it all wanna be.

Does anyone actually take him seriously?

The best part is just making him look stupid repeatedly. That's the only reason I actually acknowledge his posts.

[Edited on 1-1-2005 by Suppa Hobbit Mage]

[Edaarin]

RangerD1 > Dave

[Edaarin]

You know what...I just finished reading that whole exchange between Arkans and Nieninque...

...and I agreed with almost everything Arkans said. What the fuck...when did I turn white?

Although I'll be damned if I approve of how my tax dollars are being spent. I'm not all that interested in making sure every American has an excellent life. I'm interested in every deserving American having an excellent life. Receiving welfare money while popping out child after child? To paraphrase Chris Rock, fuck that, go get a job and STOP FUCKING.

[theotherjohn]

Canada has already announced a unilateral moratorium on foriegn debt payments from the countries affected

The UK and Germany are among countries proposing the same freeze on debt payments.

How in the hell does freezing debt affect those few who are affected by the wave?

I watch BBC out of Australia and there are already hourly reports about how those getting aid are eating and living better right now than before the wave.

[DeV]

Originally posted by theotherjohn
I watch BBC out of Australia and there are already hourly reports about how those getting aid are eating and living better right now than before the wave. Where did the reports say those people are living currently?

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by DeV
Where did the reports say those people are living currently?

Sri Lanka was the last report. You should have seen how giddy the people were because they are getting free advertisment world wide for their country and it's tourism "problem"

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Edaarin
You know what...I just finished reading that whole exchange between Arkans and Nieninque...

...and I agreed with almost everything Arkans said. What the fuck...when did I turn white?

Although I'll be damned if I approve of how my tax dollars are being spent. I'm not all that interested in making sure every American has an excellent life. I'm interested in every deserving American having an excellent life. Receiving welfare money while popping out child after child? To paraphrase Chris Rock, fuck that, go get a job and STOP FUCKING.

Welcome to the fold Edaarin. We are glad to have a token asian in our ranks.

:)

[Trinitis]

Wow, I never thought I'd be grouped with Park, Edaarin, and Arkans..but..Heya guys! :duh:

[Sean]

Originally posted by theotherjohn

Originally posted by DeV
Where did the reports say those people are living currently?

Sri Lanka was the last report. You should have seen how giddy the people were because they are getting free advertisment world wide for their country and it's tourism "problem"

I think what she meant to say was they might be eatting better and having a better 'quality of life' but yet they still don't have homes.

[DeV]

Originally posted by theotherjohn
You should have seen how giddy the people were because they are getting free advertisment world wide for their country and it's tourism "problem" I doubt the countless number of children who lost entire familes are giddy at all. Those in government will always try and capitalize from a disaster of any sort.