any f2p improvements?

[gemstoneiii]

wyrom hi there. player from mid 90s checking in. wondering if you are ever going to make f2p fully functioning so people can access your game fully without having to pay double the sub. thanks mate. cheers.

[Androidpk]

If you want to access the full game then get a sub. The f2p is meant to offer you a taste, like a demo.

[gemstoneiii]

If you want to access the full game then get a sub. The f2p is meant to offer you a taste, like a demo.

heh right a taste of a text game so special. fact is i only even wandered in here because i heard there was a f2p option. didn't realize it would be 30 bucks. if only a taste then why offer the full unlocks in the simustore? trolling f2pers?

[time4fun]

heh right a taste of a text game so special. fact is i only even wandered in here because i heard there was a f2p option. didn't realize it would be 30 bucks. if only a taste then why offer the full unlocks in the simustore? trolling f2pers?

It's $15

[Androidpk]

heh right a taste of a text game so special. fact is i only even wandered in here because i heard there was a f2p option. didn't realize it would be 30 bucks. if only a taste then why offer the full unlocks in the simustore? trolling f2pers?

Why? Because it creates options, if you don't want to spend $15/month for a basic sub you can do the F2P account and add Simucoin unlocks as you go.

[velderan]

Hey, I have a f2p char in the level 40s. Difficult? Sure, but not impossible. And I've spent approximately $0.00 in simucoin unlocks to support that growth.

[Methais]

wyrom hi there. player from mid 90s checking in. wondering if you are ever going to make f2p fully functioning so people can access your game fully without having to pay double the sub. thanks mate. cheers.

Why would people be anything but f2p then?

GS is never going to be full on F2P and run only off of microtransactions, if that's what you're getting at.

If you're a player from the mid 90s then you're probably at least in your late 30s/early 40s. You can't swing $15 a month?

Not to mention that GS pays for itself and then some.

[Wyrom]

wyrom hi there. player from mid 90s checking in. wondering if you are ever going to make f2p fully functioning so people can access your game fully without having to pay double the sub. thanks mate. cheers.


heh right a taste of a text game so special. fact is i only even wandered in here because i heard there was a f2p option. didn't realize it would be 30 bucks. if only a taste then why offer the full unlocks in the simustore? trolling f2pers?

What sort of items are you thinking of purchasing each month to make F2P cost too much? As a player from the 90s, what aspects of GemStone IV stand out the most as being hindered?

I ask those questions because the F2P model works a lot better to someone who haven't experienced all the bells and whistles from the game in recent years.

[Androidpk]

Hey, I have a f2p char in the level 40s. Difficult? Sure, but not impossible. And I've spent approximately $0.00 in simucoin unlocks to support that growth.

That is pretty awesome! How much playing time? I have a f2p closing in on 20 :)

[gemstoneiii]

Why would people be anything but f2p then?

GS is never going to be full on F2P and run only off of microtransactions, if that's what you're getting at.

If you're a player from the mid 90s then you're probably at least in your late 30s/early 40s. You can't swing $15 a month?

Not to mention that GS pays for itself and then some.

i can see subbers getting a price benefit and therefore f2p being 18,19,20 dollars for a full unlock. but the way it stands now paying 30 bucks plus and still getting screwed by being limited in spells and skill access seems almost like they made a mistake somewhere. in fact when i was going through their store the one thing going through my mind was they mustve made a mistake on these prices there's no way this can be right.

its not the money as im willing to pay a tad more than a sub to access the game fully. its the fact i hate subbing for anything and then being locked out when that sub expires. i guess its like why some people still pay for the brand drugs rather than the generics. chemically its indistinguishable but its just a psychological factor of buying something known.

come to think of it i would sub if you can still access the game as a lower version of a f2p account if and when the sub expires.

[Androidpk]

Macgyver alt #79038475309485730948573094857309485734095

[Gelston]

This guy is the reason GS auto capitalizes for you. Also, sounds like Macgyver.

[Stumplicker]

Free to play is something almost all MMOs at this point have adopted some form of. It only stood to reason that the pre-mmos that still existed would eventually do so too. It's the nature of the gaming industry now. Hell, Legends of Terris, the other AOL text game which is still around, has let you level for free to level 35 since like 2004 before having to subscribe. Main difference is Gemstone is consistently still in development. Terris is the same game it was in 1995. In the 90s you had demo disks. Now you have free to play. Free to play is most often slang for "Free to start". Early access is slang for "Paid Alpha test".

Why do companies do this? Because it's a good model. Free to play brings you back to a game that you long ago forgot about to start it again with no money on the line. The idea is to remind you of what you liked about this game you forgot, and get you to re-subscribe. For many of us, that's exactly how it worked. I came back in April 2015 when F2P became a thing with that big merchant event.

What it comes down to is that if you come back for free to play and enjoy yourself, subscribe. It's $15. If you can't afford $15 for a month's worth of entertainment, you've got bigger problems than free to play not being all encompassing.

[gemstoneiii]

What sort of items are you thinking of purchasing each month to make F2P cost too much? As a player from the 90s, what aspects of GemStone IV stand out the most as being hindered?

I ask those questions because the F2P model works a lot better to someone who haven't experienced all the bells and whistles from the game in recent years.


What sort of items are you thinking of purchasing each month to make F2P cost too much? As a player from the 90s, what aspects of GemStone IV stand out the most as being hindered?

I ask those questions because the F2P model works a lot better to someone who haven't experienced all the bells and whistles from the game in recent years.


the way it stands now a lot of spells are just unusable and some don't even have a pass to make it usable. then there is the warrior or rogue guilds which are also completely barred and no simupass. these things arent bells or whistles not by any measure if youve played these classes and for a completely fresh player will eventually feel as well.

i think the problem stemmed from the fact that you took away pre-existing features from a game that was meant and built originally to be part of the gameplay and then turn-around and call it a luxury feature or bells and whistles as you call it. so even for a fresh player he or she will feel that part of their character and build is forever nerfed without any recourse or way of fixing it. this is a dealbreaker especially where you can sink years and years on said character.

then there is lumnis access. i don't know if you know this but if you were to buy lumnis for your f2p character,that alone, just the lumnis, would cost more then a months sub? im almost certain this is a mispricing of some sort.

[Wyrom]

the way it stands now a lot of spells are just unusable and some don't even have a pass to make it usable. then there is the warrior or rogue guilds which are also completely barred and no simupass. these things arent bells or whistles not by any measure if youve played these classes and for a completely fresh player will eventually feel as well.

i think the problem stemmed from the fact that you took away pre-existing features from a game that was meant and built originally to be part of the gameplay and then turn-around and call it a luxury feature or bells and whistles as you call it. so even for a fresh player he or she will feel that part of their character and build is forever nerfed without any recourse or way of fixing it. this is a dealbreaker especially where you can sink years and years on said character.

then there is lumnis access. i don't know if you know this but if you were to buy lumnis for your f2p character,that alone, just the lumnis, would cost more then a months sub? im almost certain this is a mispricing of some sort.

We actually had an influx of legitimate new players in the last 45 days, so we have some recent data on real new users.

If you can give me actual examples, I'd be more than happy to review them. Players who wish to progress through the game at an accelerated rate are definitely better off supporting the product.

[Androidpk]

Player from the mid-90's concerned about lumnis.. :jerkit:

Just go away already mcgayver.

[Gelston]

Player from the mid-90's concerned about lumnis.. :jerkit:

Just go away already mcgayver.

Heck it is even faster progression up to like 26 or so compared to then. I'm more surprised he isn't asking about the differences between 3 and 4.

[gemstoneiii]

We actually had an influx of legitimate new players in the last 45 days, so we have some recent data on real new users.

If you can give me actual examples, I'd be more than happy to review them. Players who wish to progress through the game at an accelerated rate are definitely better off supporting the product.

so my 18,19,20 dollars a month isn't support? these are in us dollars guy, not seashells. you have a wierd business sense. it's like you price a car at $15,000 then you price that same car with a few scratches at $30,000 then you look at your sub conversion numbers and go see noone wants to buy the f2p scratched car. duh? don't you ever wonder what might happen if you legit priced your f2p product?

[Allereli]

we have a moderator now, can we finally ban this guy?

[Wyrom]

so my 18,19,20 dollars a month isn't support? these are in us dollars guy, not seashells. you have a wierd business sense. it's like you price a car at $15,000 then you price that same car with a few scratches at $30,000 then you look at your sub conversion numbers and go see noone wants to buy the f2p scratched car. duh? don't you ever wonder what might happen if you legit priced your f2p product?

Your analogy would work a bit better if you did owning vs. leasing. If we price a car at $15,000 and lease a car for $5,000, you don't own the car at the end of the lease. Your monthly payments on owning (with loan) would be less than the lease numbers as well. The difference is a worry-free (less) automobile.

You're a bit too combative for me to really engage in a constructive discussion though. If you can let me know your account or show me what you're buying, I can be a little more help to see what you're buying and where the costs are happening.

[Stumplicker]

so my 18,19,20 dollars a month isn't support? these are in us dollars guy, not seashells. you have a wierd business sense. it's like you price a car at $15,000 then you price that same car with a few scratches at $30,000 then you look at your sub conversion numbers and go see noone wants to buy the f2p scratched car. duh? don't you ever wonder what might happen if you legit priced your f2p product?

I think if you're paying $18, 19, 20 for something that you get more from for $14.95, it's you that has the weird business sense, guy.

[Ltlprprincess]

I think if you're paying $18, 19, 20 for something that you get more from for $14.95, it's you that has the weird business sense, guy.

Agreed.

Also, regarding the warrior guild... -MOST- of the things you can learn there can be learned via CMans without reps. I want to say same with Rogue guild. Feint, Sweep, etc. These are combat related skills and not closed off to just guildees. There are added benefits to the guilds, though, which is why I can understand it being closed off. What happens to those skills when you decide to stop paying the guild pass? You shouldn't have access to it just on the whims of "Oh, let me learn this and stop paying so I don't waste my TPs on CMans."

[Methais]

Macgyver alt #79038475309485730948573094857309485734095

That was my first thought too. But I gave a normal response just in case.

The more I read though the more I realize I should have just sent him goatse.

[Gelston]

That was my first thought too. But I gave a normal response just in case.

The more I read though the more I realize I should have just sent him goatse.

I'm surprised Wyrom responded to him as many times as he did, then again, he can't be a complete dickhole to people on here like we can.

[gemstoneiii]

Your analogy would work a bit better if you did owning vs. leasing. If we price a car at $15,000 and lease a car for $5,000, you don't own the car at the end of the lease. Your monthly payments on owning (with loan) would be less than the lease numbers as well. The difference is a worry-free (less) automobile.

You're a bit too combative for me to really engage in a constructive discussion though. If you can let me know your account or show me what you're buying, I can be a little more help to see what you're buying and where the costs are happening.

how did you come upon owning and leasing? From what you're trying to say subbing is owning and leasing is f2p. how? i pay 15$ for a sub per month, I pay 30$ a month for a f2p lease. what benefit am I deriving from this arrangement that would constitute paying double to access the same game? -actually inferior since again guilds and some spells are completely barred for a f2p.

the only other factor im seeing is variability, ala i pay 30 one month then 5 another month whilst a sub has to pay 15 min no matter what. ok, then create a middle option. a 18 dollar sub-like deal token for f2pers which once consumed other f2p items like exp mind boosters and the like wont work. you think noone will pony up the 3 dollar premium over a sub? try me. you'll quickly figure out my account since i'll be buying that every single month. and what do you lose? if someone buys this new token and uses it, he's got two options continue buying the 18 dollar token or sub up, either way it's great for you.

[BriarFox]

All I see is verbally incontinent trolling and then my eyes glaze over.

[Gelston]

how did you come upon owning and leasing? From what you're trying to say subbing is owning and leasing is f2p. how? i pay 15$ for a sub per month, I pay 30$ a month for a f2p lease. what benefit am I deriving from this arrangement that would constitute paying double to access the same game? -actually inferior since again guilds and some spells are completely barred for a f2p.

the only other factor im seeing is variability, ala i pay 30 one month then 5 another month whilst a sub has to pay 15 min no matter what. ok, then create a middle option. a 18 dollar sub-like deal token for f2pers which once consumed other f2p items like exp mind boosters and the like wont work. you think noone will pony up the 3 dollar premium over a sub? try me. you'll quickly figure out my account since i'll be buying that every single month. and what do you lose? if someone buys this new token and uses it, he's got two options continue buying the 18 dollar token or sub up, either way it's great for you.

Why are you so intent on paying more than $15 for a regular sub?

[Wrathbringer]

Why are you so intent on paying more than $15 for a regular sub?

Newsflash: he's trolling.

[Gelston]

Newsflash: he's trolling.

Newsflash: I don't care, I'm bored.

[Androidpk]

Newsflash: I don't care, I'm bored.

Get a job you bum!

[Gelston]

Get a job you bum!

That is what I tell my servants after I fire them for touching my prized silverware without gloves on.

[Tgo01]

How can I get in the racket of willingly paying double for a service while receiving fewer perks?

[Gelston]

How can I get in the racket of willingly paying double for a service while receiving fewer perks?

You can pay me $30 a month and I'll allow you access to a basic account.

[Androidpk]

How can I get in the racket of willingly paying double for a service while receiving fewer perks?

Comcast.com

[Tgo01]

You can pay me $30 a month and I'll allow you access to a basic account.

But I want fewer perks! Make sure you change the password every other week so I can only access the account two weeks out of the month.


Comcast.com

I see what you did there.

[Gelston]

But I want fewer perks! Make sure you change the password every other week so I can only access the account two weeks out of the month.
.

That will cost you 9.99 more per month.

[Tgo01]

That will cost you 9.99 more per month.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f2/ea/3e/f2ea3e7ead61f82db2562c955bdbc42c.jpg

[velderan]

That is pretty awesome! How much playing time? I have a f2p closing in on 20 :)

Jeez I have NO idea how much total time invested in the char. Probably in the nature of average 6-10 hours a week since it opened if you put all the time together, including a small break I took.

@Wyrom...we need a /played function that tells us creation date of the character and total hours played. That should definitely be a thing.

[Gelston]

Jeez I have NO idea how much total time invested in the char. Probably in the nature of average 6-10 hours a week since it opened if you put all the time together, including a small break I took.

@Wyrom...we need a /played function that tells us creation date of the character and total hours played. That should definitely be a thing.

/played would probably scare way too many people.

[Viekn]

Jeez I have NO idea how much total time invested in the char. Probably in the nature of average 6-10 hours a week since it opened if you put all the time together, including a small break I took.

@Wyrom...we need a /played function that tells us creation date of the character and total hours played. That should definitely be a thing.

Lol, I think someone brought that up a year or two ago and we were all like "Um, we already know we're degenerates and would rather not know the actual time played." It's like going to McDonalds and seeing all the calorie counts posted for each item. Thanks assholes, I already know I'm a fat fuck, I don't need you reminding me of what I'm about to eat.

[Neovik1]

Lol, I think someone brought that up a year or two ago and we were all like "Um, we already know we're degenerates and would rather not know the actual time played." It's like going to McDonalds and seeing all the calorie counts posted for each item. Thanks assholes, I already know I'm a fat fuck, I don't need you reminding me of what I'm about to eat.

Yeah I definitely don't want to know how much of my life has been spent playing this game. Please do not add this functionality in ever...

[Wyrom]

Jeez I have NO idea how much total time invested in the char. Probably in the nature of average 6-10 hours a week since it opened if you put all the time together, including a small break I took.

@Wyrom...we need a /played function that tells us creation date of the character and total hours played. That should definitely be a thing.

I don't think we store play time in a conventional way for players. And only the last 12 months are really stored. Creation date is stored though. Hmm. I'll have to see what all is feasible, because I do like the idea.

[velderan]

Lol, I think someone brought that up a year or two ago

If it was on lnet, it was probably me.

[Tgo01]

Yeah I definitely don't want to know how much of my life has been spent playing this game. Please do not add this functionality in ever...

I'm safe because 90% of my playtime is afk scripting.

[Gelston]

I'm safe because 90% of my playtime is afk scripting.

reported

[Tgo01]

reported

Joke's on you, 90% of my posting is afk posting.

[Androidpk]

I'm safe because 90% of my playtime is afk scripting.

Behind Russian proxies and VPNs to boot!

[Gelston]

Joke's on you, 90% of my posting is afk posting.

Reported to time4fun.

[Enuch]

Joke's on you, 90% of my posting is afk posting.

Laughed at a urinal while reading this. And now I'm the creepy guy in my office space

[Androidpk]

Laughed at a urinal while reading this. And now I'm the creepy guy in my office space

Who reads their phone while pissing at a urinal..

[Riull]

Why are you so intent on paying more than $15 for a regular sub?

Because he gets to remain F2P, at least from what he's saying. It allows him close to sub experience but allows him to still access the game whenever he likes without inserting his credit card to reopen his account, that's what he's buying with the extra money paid on top of the 15 bucks.

His 18 bucks for a F2P-Sub hybrid account is intriguing, although, I have no idea how well it could be implemented.

And these forums are a hoot. Glad I found it, I think.

[Gelston]

Because he gets to remain F2P, at least from what he's saying. It allows him close to sub experience but allows him to still access the game whenever he likes without inserting his credit card to reopen his account, that's what he's buying with the extra money paid on top of the 15 bucks.

His 18 bucks for a F2P-Sub hybrid account is intriguing, although, I have no idea how well it could be implemented.

And these forums are a hoot. Glad I found it, I think.

He is saying he'd pay that every month though, not exactly F2P there. I think the way F2P exists is kinda meh though. Accounts should beable to switch between F2P and Basic/Premium status at will instead of being locked into one or the other.

[Whirlin]

reported


Reported to time4fun.

Knock that off.

[Gelston]

Knock that off.

reported

[Riull]

He is saying he'd pay that every month though, not exactly F2P there. I think the way F2P exists is kinda meh though. Accounts should beable to switch between F2P and Basic/Premium status at will instead of being locked into one or the other.

Oh I agree with you here. I don't know what they get by not allowing subbed accounts to drop to a inferior F2P version where you can't use any F2P products and would have to resub to get any benefits. I would imagine there are quite a few people who would've got back into GS as long as the door was opened a bit and not locked shut like it is with already subbed accounts.

[Wrathbringer]

Knock that off.

Reported.

[Gelston]

Reported.

https://media.makeameme.org/created/Reports-Reports-Everywhere.jpg

[Enuch]

Who reads their phone while pissing at a urinal..

Gots to get my forum updates and the pisser is the only time I gots my phone well and for deuces.

[mgoddess]

Accounts should beable to switch between F2P and Basic/Premium status at will instead of being locked into one or the other.

Agreed. I can see where people are coming from, wanting a sub-simulating token for F2P accounts. The ability to have a fully-subbed experience, for the duration of the token (make it be $20 for a month's duration), would be awesome, because then you can "sub" for as long as you want, and still be able to access, via the F2P mechanism, when you can't afford the $20/month.

[Viekn]

Agreed. I can see where people are coming from, wanting a sub-simulating token for F2P accounts. The ability to have a fully-subbed experience, for the duration of the token (make it be $20 for a month's duration), would be awesome, because then you can "sub" for as long as you want, and still be able to access, via the F2P mechanism, when you can't afford the $20/month.

This just goes back to the desire for people to take their accounts back to F2P once they've subbed. Which I totally understand and would want myself, but I understand the issue with Simu not allowing it either. Maybe the solution is to have a third tier of sub. F2P, full sub, and half sub. Half sub would only be available to people who have subbed fully for 3 months or more per year and would still have most, if not all, the restrictions that F2P has. The main benefit would be that you get to continue playing with your main chracter and not have to switch to a random F2P character that you run. Most spell restrictions would remain, as you don't necessarily need unrestricted spells to hunt. Maybe exp absorption wouldn't be quite as slow as F2P but would still be less than full sub. All other restrictions regarding loresinging for others, picking boxes for others, etc. would remain so you can't create a cheap pocket bard/wizard/empath etc.

[Methais]

I'm gonna guess that the reason you can't swap F2P and sub back and forth is because of their billing system. If I remember right, their system makes all sorts of shit nearly impossible that would normally be easy.

And they probably didn't think of a 30 day full subscription token in the Simucoin store either.

[Astray]

I've always held the idea that a free account should be at basic subscription allowance. A Premium would be rolled down to a much more reasonable $14.99. You obviously offset the difference by making Premium much much more desirable. Exclusive events, tickets to Premium only events, more desirable cash shop items/benefits. You can look at freemium games to draw inspiration from.

But heeeeey, Simu gonna Simu.

[Taernath]

I've always held the idea that a free account should be at basic subscription allowance. A Premium would be rolled down to a much more reasonable $14.99. You obviously offset the difference by making Premium much much more desirable. Exclusive events, tickets to Premium only events, more desirable cash shop items/benefits. You can look at freemium games to draw inspiration from.

But heeeeey, Simu gonna Simu.

The only reason I had a premium account was due to their silliness with character slot charges. Premium points are nice I guess but I've only used them once over 15 years ago. Everything else is basically useless to me (the type ahead line is pretty lol though). If I could get a sub for $15 with unlimited slots, I'd keep it open instead of cancelling for those months when I don't play as much.

As far as switching a paid account to a F2P account and back again, I'd like to do that, but it makes sense that they wouldn't allow it. I'd imagine a significant portion of the established playerbase just RPs, so if they could get on without paying that's a lot of revenue lost.

[Astray]

The only reason I had a premium account was due to their silliness with character slot charges. Premium points are nice I guess but I've only used them once over 15 years ago. Everything else is basically useless to me (the type ahead line is pretty lol though). If I could get a sub for $15 with unlimited slots, I'd keep it open instead of cancelling for those months when I don't play as much.

As far as switching a paid account to a F2P account and back again, I'd like to do that, but it makes sense that they wouldn't allow it. I'd imagine a significant portion of the established playerbase just RPs, so if they could get on without paying that's a lot of revenue lost.

Fair enough.

[Androidpk]

The only reason I had a premium account was due to their silliness with character slot charges. Premium points are nice I guess but I've only used them once over 15 years ago. Everything else is basically useless to me (the type ahead line is pretty lol though). If I could get a sub for $15 with unlimited slots, I'd keep it open instead of cancelling for those months when I don't play as much.

As far as switching a paid account to a F2P account and back again, I'd like to do that, but it makes sense that they wouldn't allow it. I'd imagine a significant portion of the established playerbase just RPs, so if they could get on without paying that's a lot of revenue lost.

Only time I've used points is to buy the custom titles package, which incidentally should be available via Simucoins.

[Maerit]

This conversation seems to keep circling back every ~6 months.

F2P is not great right now. We've already discussed, in length, suggestions to improve F2P as a means of enjoying this game.

No, F2P "subscription level" access should not be as cheap as subscribing, but it should exist. It doesn't currently. Wyrom already took great notes from the previous conversation, and it's not currently a priority on their backlog because other things are more important in general.

To summarize previous discussions:

- Better passes with better durations (i.e. 24 hours, 72 hours, and 30 day durations)
- Better spell access for F2P that doesn't allow for income generating spells
- Guild access passes (please don't argue that skills are available via CMAN since spending CMAN points on skills you learn in the guild is excessively expensive and sub-optimal)
- More consistency across classes (some can access their abilities via passes, other cannot) - less specificity for passes.

[Viekn]

Who reads their phone while pissing at a urinal..

Eesh, I'm guilty of that like everyday. I know, I have a problem.

[Viekn]

Because he gets to remain F2P, at least from what he's saying...His 18 bucks for a F2P-Sub hybrid account is intriguing, although, I have no idea how well it could be implemented.

For whatever reason, this now just made sense to me. Spending more on F2P than you would a sub so you can remain F2P. I get that now. But logically you should be able to pay less than a sub to make that happen vs. more.

[Ltlprprincess]

- Guild access passes (please don't argue that skills are available via CMAN since spending CMAN points on skills you learn in the guild is excessively expensive and sub-optimal)


It's not optimal. Nothing about F2P is supposed to be optimal.

[Androidpk]

Just call it free2demo instead of free2play, that would clear up any confusion.

[Fortybox]

Laughed at a urinal while reading this. And now I'm the creepy guy in my office space

Um...you're that guy because you are pissing at a urinal while reading your phone, not because you laughed.

That's GROSS.

[Fortybox]

I've always held the idea that a free account should be at basic subscription allowance. A Premium would be rolled down to a much more reasonable $14.99. You obviously offset the difference by making Premium much much more desirable. Exclusive events, tickets to Premium only events, more desirable cash shop items/benefits. You can look at freemium games to draw inspiration from.

But heeeeey, Simu gonna Simu.

Logic is not allowed here. Move along.