Letting go..

[Jenisi]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/12/23/gen.us.clonedcat.ap/index.html

I mean yeah it's sad to lose your pet but people need to realize you need to deal with life. To spend 50k to get your damn pet back... I mean the idea of cloneing is cool and all, but seriously. I'm really disturbed this lady did that.

[War Angel]

Just thinking of all the ways I could spend 50k made me go nuts. How crazy do you have to be, to love your pet so much you clone it?

I would rather have 2 of these.
One in black, and one in burgundy. Thanks!
http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/aic/ford_mustang_gtpremiumcoupe_2005_385x192.jpg

Or maybe just a downpayment on one of these:

http://www.fast-autos.net/ford/gt11.jpg

[Hulkein]

I'd take a clone of my first pet over either of those cars.

[Chadj]

I'd only ever spend 50 grand on a cat if I had millions

[Drew]

Originally posted by Hulkein
I'd take a clone of my first pet over either of those cars.


I have a new mustang GT on order... so I guess I would take that over a cloned cat.

People have too much money.

[Snapp]

Even if I had the money, the whole idea of cloning dead pets freaks me out.

The animal is as old as the precursor cells that are used to clone it, meaning, this prototype is NOT going to be anywhere nearly as healthy as the original. They had to put down Dolly because of all the illnesses she was suffering.

[Ilvane]

Not to mention, it's not going to be the same cat, clone or not. It will be brought up with the same person, but it is not going to necessarily be the same personality.

It's very disturbing.

-A

[Brattt8525]

Playing God, is just wrong.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Jenisi
I'm really disturbed this lady did that.

I can't say that I'm disturbed, but I don't think I'd ever do it. For me, part of the fun of having pets while growing up was learning their personalities. My first dog was a very smart, very rambunctious black lab. He died at three, and a year later we got another black lab from the same family. He was so very sweet, but so very stupid. Had I cloned my first black lab, I'd never have had the slobbery chewing on my foot at breakfast, or the pathetic whine when I placed his favorite treat on the vacuum. I dare say that the second was my favorite :)

I guess for me, it isn't about whether or not we should play God, but whether or not we should appreciate what enters our life without expecting that which we consider perfection.

Jorddyn, misses having a pet

[Caiylania]

MO= That money if one wants to throw it away, could be used in so many more wonderful ways. donate it to a no kill shelter and save more animals from dying.

That clone will not be your beloved pet, at most its like a twin, and like twins, will have a different personality no matter how same the DNA.

I love my pets, but if I had that kind of money to spend, it would go to helping those living, not trying to reclaim what is gone.

[Shari]

What Jorddyn and Caiy said.

[4a6c1]

I'd do it. If for no other reason than because of the weirdness factor.

[AestheticDeath]

As far as cloning goes... I don't have much of an opinion yet as to right or wrong. But...

I think its quite funny that anyone would get upset over how someone else spends their money. Its not your money, so why give an opinion on how they should spend it? Thats like telling some billionaire that instead of spending $20k on a piece of diamond jewelry for his loved one, he should spend that 20k buying silver jewelry for as many other people as he can.

Another funny thing I read on the article was that people were upset since it would only be available to the rich. WTF? How many other things are only available to the rich? Besides if you think its too expensive... go out and research it, find out how to do it yourself. You'll wind up spending way more money. Also, the cost should only decrease as the research goes on. Assuming of course it doesn't get outlawed and move to the black market. Seriously though, at this point I dont see that type of thing happening. It will most likely follow along the same lines as abortion. Some people will want it very much for certain reasons. Tons of others will be totally against it for varied reasons. But it will always be there. I doubt there is really anything anyone can do to stop it. Although unlike abortion, TONS of money can be made by creating life instead of destroying it. From the line mentioning dogs being much more profitable than cats, I can only assume someone will want to 'construct' their very own racing dog, instead of breeding one. Take the best traits of every dog and make some super fast thing that can't be beaten..

This of course leads me to the disturbing thought, of the government or some private organization making an army of clones. How many movies have been done on this basis. While I watced them, I thought how awesome.. But if it became a reality. Damn thats just scary. I can see it getting totally out of control, but I can also see some benefits... Not losing all the people you know and love to war... just send clones. But of course... then you get the argument of whether or not clones are real people. And should they be treated as real people.

If some company ever clones a whole person, will that person get a social security number along with his name? A birth certificate? Will it be a real name, or a number? Would they demand that clones be marked as such? Would this start the tracking devices being put into humans? Or the barcodes... heh

If/when humans are cloned, will they grow up from childhood, to become an adult. Will - no Can - they start out at the age the last person died and just keep on living. Will clones be eligible for everythihng we are right now? Will they have rights? Will they get college scholarshops. Will humans become a minority? With clones being more predominate? Thats almost scary in and of itself.

So I guess I lied. I don't really want to see cloning of humans. Although I think the cloning of humans parts, to help fix instead of heal people could be a good thing.

Its just a question of how far you can take it. Its power. And power in the wrong hands can be dangerous. But in the right hands... who knows what you can do with it.



[Edited on 12-28-2004 by AestheticDeath]

[Jenisi]

I don't give two craps if it was free or cost them 50k or a million or whatever. Life is the way it is for a reason. Life/Death keeps things balanced, it's NEEDED. People become obsessed with this stuff. So she brings her cat back because she can't cope with the loss? It's not like somone can't handle losing somone or something they care about. Yeah it sucks, but it's a part of life.

[DeV]

Pet Cemetary flashbacks...

[AestheticDeath]

Good point. But everything comes about with time. If cloning becomes so prevalent that we can fix our ailments and whatnot, or even create new bodies/people. Then perhaps we could finally institute some sort of restriction on how many kids people are allowed to have. I know it might sound stupid, or wrong to limit what people are allowed to have as far as kids go. But I can think of plenty of instances where some people just shouldn't reproduce. Or should have stopped a while back. And I am not just talking about 'funny' stuff like the talk about Warclaidhm, or someone you don't like not having the right to reproduce. But a woman who is addicted to drugs... that baby would be so messed up it would be a crime to allow it to be born. It would lead a life of pain. And I cannot count on my own fingers the number of couples I have seen with WAY TOO MANY kids. There was this one guy who worked at the same place I do... Whenever we would have a company party, you are allowed to bring your family. HIS WHOLE family came. Kids, aunts uncles grandmother etc... And all 5-6 kids. Most people bring the wife... the 1-3 kids. If they have kids. Another odd thing, is that most of the people I see with so many kids... can't afford to feed them. Or they wind up living a life in near poverty just to keep food on the table. People need to know their limits. Obviously its a bit different if your just extremely fertile and wind up having quadruplets or sextuplets or something. But once you have that many... shouldnt you WANT to get fixed so you dont have more children? Right now I just see the government almost supporting the huge families. In some respects it nice that they want to help large families eat and all... But Shouldnt they do some more to convince the people to stop screwing?

Anyhow... Im not real strong on the point, or trying to say it needs to be done. But we could control in some way how many people are born into the world. Possibly extending our lives, perhaps through cloning, could be nice. Especially if you could be in good shape in your later years. How many people would like to be around at 100 years old... and still be able to do all your old hobbies. Not to mention feed yourself.. cloth and clean yourself.

After re-reading all that I don't think I really covered the point you were trying to make. But its what came to mind when I was reading and responding. Although if you could prolong life, or whatever, you wouldn't have to clone something or someone that already died.

Still tho... after 14 years you would think thats quite enough time to be around a cat. Could you imagine what the cat was going through after 14 years... Most cats or dogs I ever had didn't survive that long. I could understand the story a bit more if it was a child losing their favorite pet. But that woman is well enough along in years to understand the concepts of death and all that. She probably should have moved on.

[Edited on 12-28-2004 by AestheticDeath]

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Snapp
Even if I had the money, the whole idea of cloning dead pets freaks me out.

Yeah, same.

When I posted originally I meant theoretically. I'd say give me another ten years on my dogs life, because I'd definitely rather have it then a nice car, but I wouldn't want an already dead pet cloned.

Too macabre.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Jenisi
I don't give two craps if it was free or cost them 50k or a million or whatever. Life is the way it is for a reason. Life/Death keeps things balanced, it's NEEDED. People become obsessed with this stuff. So she brings her cat back because she can't cope with the loss? It's not like somone can't handle losing somone or something they care about. Yeah it sucks, but it's a part of life.

So it's not OK to play God making life, but destroying it via abortion is OK?

Trust me, I agree cloning is wrong, but I don't see how you can argue it both ways.

[Edited on 12-28-2004 by Hulkein]

[Jenisi]

Um? When did I ever even mention abortion?

[AestheticDeath]

I think I was the first to mention abortion in this thread, using it as a comparison. But I don't recall saying it was right or wrong.

Woah, woah, woah.. I still see nothing wrong with cloning. Trust me, I'm as right winged as they get (SEIG HEIL MOTHA FUCKA!!11), but seriously, what is the deal with cloning being bad?

What's wrong with working with the technology to be able to grow organs or even figure out how to work with DNA and eliminate hereditary diseases? Jeez, the options seem so endless that I can't even begin to touch on them. I respect anyone's religious views, but holding civilization back because of them? No way, seems foolish almost.

- Arkans

[Killer Kitten]

I think being able to grow our own replacement organs and tissues would be wonderful. If I could have new bones and not be in so much pain all the time? Be able to do the things I enjoy again, like cycling, taking long walks, even playing Gemstone? Hell yeah, sign me up!

As far as getting your pet cloned. Hell, it's her money, she should have the right to clone her pet, fund an animal shelter, sit on it and watch interest grow, or throw it out the window for that matter.

The guys doing cloning research need to make it profitable or they won't be doing research for long. That's just the way of the world. We have a government who would rather see stem cells that could potentially make the paralyzed walk again tossed into an incinerator in the name of 'morality'. Many ideas that could make life idyllic or at least a hell of a lot better are squashed because some group or another takes offense to some aspect of the process of turning these ideas into facts.

I don't pretend to have the answers to the age old questions of 'morality' vs 'progress'. I do think that cloning deserves a second look, and a third...

Kimm

Unless it harms a country's citizens, then I support progress over morality at almost any cost. There is no excuse to hold America and her people back.

- Arkans

[Toxicvixen]

I wouldn't clone my first pet only because it was the ugliest damn dog you would have ever seen. I named him Gizmo, he was a mutt we found in the pound. I thought he was cute, but what the hell did I know being 4 at the time.

And :heart: Jihna for the weirdness factor comment! Wouldn't that be a great conversation starter? Hi! Meet my dog Fluffy version 4.0, He is a clone of the orginal Fluffy!

[Edited on 12-28-2004 by Toxicvixen]

[AestheticDeath]

OK. Arkans I am going to direct the question to you since you say you have nothing at all against cloning. But... its really to anyone.

But first. I am going to agree with you about cloning PARTS. Thats something that could just benefit everyone in too many ways to count. But...

What if, at some point they actually were able to clone a human. Just like they cloned that cat. Just take a lil DNA... and however long they have to wait... couple months or something. You have an exact duplicate. Of ANY person, as long as you could get your hands on their DNA.

Now... say you are a happily married man. Gotta great wife... couple kids or whatever.

You get home from work. The wifes working on cooking supper. She somehow totally forgot that she was out of a few ingrediants for the meal. Could you please go pick some up honey? Sure OK, you goto the supermarket. Lalala... ah the bread isle - and the hamburger buns... HEY... thats my wife... Walking up to the woman, you ask:

"Honey, what are you doing here? Did you forget something else too?"

Woman: "Uh, I don't know who you think I am but you have got some serious issues man."

You then realize she is wearing a different outfit. Something your wife would never wear. Her hair is a bit of a different shade. Her teeth are a bit brighter. You realize you just ran into a CLONE of your wife.

How would that make you feel?

If at some point they are actually able to clone a human. This could happen. Obviously if they get that far, hopefully someone would be able to limit things at least by law, and make it so you need someones permission to clone. But if someone has the money, or the knowledge and equipment. Maybe they just pay off the right person. They could clone you or your loved one. And you wouldn't have any say about it.

Truthfully thats alot of babbling nonsense, since I dont know exactly whats required to clone someone. But say it was just your DNA, and not some other hard to get thing.

Perhaps it would take something more than a hair that could be stolen while you walk by someone on the street. Or the skin someone might have accidentally scratched off your arm, trying to get ahold of you for some attention.

Say your mother died. Three years later, you walk home to greet dad with a Christmas gift, and your mother answers the door. Your father had your mother cloned without your knowledge. He didn't let you know, or ask how you would feel. He just couldn't stand being without her any longer. How would you feel to have a loved one show up outta nowhere, who should by all rights be 6 feet under. Would you be happy? Thank your father with all your heart that you got to see your mother again? Or would you be fairly disgusted. Could you look at the woman without thinking of her as a walking zombie? Could you hug her? Could you love the woman like you loved your mother? Or would she be an imposter?

[Edited on 12-29-2004 by AestheticDeath]

[Warriorbird]

They wouldn't be the same age. Clones are also doomed to shorter lives due to cell weakening.

Far more real is cloning a wife to have a teenage sex slave version.... or creating many many identical children and having certain of them commit crimes.

[Edited on 12-29-2004 by Warriorbird]

[Warriorbird]

I am really puzzled.

Right now, we cannot speed up the age of clones, but I'll bite and assume that we can.

There should be strict laws that prohobit cloning. For instance, you can have only one person around at a time. No duplicate clones. If said person died and there was permission granted, I see nothing wrong with cloning said person. Perhaps one day we will figure out how to have personality be transferred and we can have a loved one come back. It would be fantastic, if you ask me.

Also, with the furth study of cloning and human DNA we can adjust people before birth. Possibility of getting demetia at a later age? Alter the DNA strand and it's gone. The possibilities are endless to how we can improve the Human race.

Like anything, laws need to be in place. There need to be regulations to prevent the horrible practices for coming out, but these would be common sense laws. The outright banning it just seems to retard human progress completely.

- Arkans

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Arkans
The possibilities are endless to how we can improve the Human race.
...
but these would be common sense laws.I hope we have a better guy in charge of which traits are inferior this time. That last guy was a real nut job.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
How come this was moved to general GS? :?:

I have no idea! However, I've moved it to Off-Topic. That seems to be the best place for it.

HarmNone grabs her vorpal sword of ultimate whooparse and goes searching for the post-moving poltergeist

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Arkans
The possibilities are endless to how we can improve the Human race.
...
but these would be common sense laws.I hope we have a better guy in charge of which traits are inferior this time. That last guy was a real nut job.

As much as it might pain me to say so, I think Latrinsorm has a really good point.

Jorddyn :saint:

[AestheticDeath]

I am not up to speed on all this cloning stuff, obviously. But one thing I heard was that the aging process was increased dramatically. Perhaps not enough to make a 40+ year old person in a year. At least not yet... Who knows what they will be able to do with more research.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
They wouldn't be the same age. Clones are also doomed to shorter lives due to cell weakening.



They could be the same age.

The original is born in 1970, in 2040 multiple clones of that person are made. Some guy marries one of them in 2065 then goes grocery shopping blah blah.

Not that I think his reasoning is why cloning is wrong, but I thought the same thing at first and realized it was theoretically possible.

[Warriorbird]

True, I neglected a point there that I also made myself. I don't see anything deeply wrong with cloning, as long as every law applies the same to clones.