Calling All Moderators

[Eodus]

Weighing In

After spending the last few days reading the back & forth regarding SashaFierce's newly-acquired position as moderator, I thought it might be a good idea to branch off and initiate a positive, forward-moving discussion regarding the moderation of this forum or lack thereof in a more general sense.

+1 for Ardwen, Whirlin, Tisket, Gelston, and time4fun as moderators. Neutral on SF regarding moderation. I've had only positive experiences with Sasha IG, although I can't speak for anyone else. Plenty of other suitable candidates -- the aforementioned simply tend to be more active than others, intelligent, and for the most part, not bat-shit crazy.

Forum Hacked?

The forum has probably not been hacked (EDIT: forum was supposedly hacked to expose cross-referenced IP/admin/mod info, but hacker was never able to provide any hard evidence of doing so). Sasha mentioned that someone had inquired as to whether or not he is a black hat hacker? That was me, inquiring, because there is a vulnerability with a previous version of vBulletin that allows a user to make oneself a superadmin with little to no effort. But does not apply to the current version. As a half-assed white-hat hacker myself, I was merely curious. Clearly, it would have been a short-lived position had the title been acquired illegitimately.

Effective Moderation

Although it is clear that the underlying philosophy of this forum is one of very loose moderation and freedom of expression, I wonder if a more effective balance could be found.

Moving forward, I believe there could be a more rigid set of rules for any moderator to work within. Take a look at the StackExchange network of sites (http://stackexchange.com/sites) (their RPG stack (http://rpg.stackexchange.com/) is pretty cool -- I posted here (http://meta.rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/6806/would-rpg-be-an-appropriate-stack-to-discuss-the-text-based-online-mud-gemstone) -- good example of what I would consider to be really outstanding moderation on the part of thedarkwanderer, who initially downvoted my post, prompting me to improve and expand upon my initial question and to ensure that it is posted on the proper stack; then proceeded to provide a logical, in-depth answer to my question, although it is not the answer that I selected). Go through the stacks a bit if you want a lesson on what a well-moderated site might look like.

Good moderation includes the removal or downvoting of superfluous or flat-out false content. It includes raising the bar on quality, specificity, and succinctness of content as well as ensuring that forum members behave in a way that is suitable for effective forum discussion. Not always friendly. But should be toward a logical end. Dick jokes, calling people cunts, polls about how many women want to be face-fucked by macgyver, etc, that shit belongs elsewhere and is not conducive to the positive movement of any discussion anywhere in life. The fact that macgyver's face-fucking post was even allowed to happen in the first place, not to mention his continued existence on this forum, is proof that there is ZERO moderation happening here. At all. I imagine it's also scaring off new players or attracting the wrong sort, which I'm sure is something that Wyrom has considered, and why he is now participating here in the first place.

If not SF, then Who?

Without ethical moderation or some other form of moral leadership, there is anarchy. That much is clear. Who's going to step up to the plate, if not Sasha?

Now, I'm not saying that anything Sasha removed was superfluous or inflammatory, and I'm not saying Sasha is the not best person for the job. What I am saying is freedom of speech and expression aside, we need more ACTIVE moderators here in a general sense, to stimulate more engaging and positive discussions surrounding the game (and politics, much as I dislike politics in general).

Kranar's Announcement

On 3/6, Kranar announced that he had indeed appointed SashaFierce as moderator, eliminating any confusion surrounding how the position had been acquired. A day later, it is clear that the community would like to see Ardwen, Whirlin, and Tisket for mod, and for Tillmen to take over the management, security, and updates to the forum itself. We are still waiting on any one of these appointments to be made or for any one of the aforementined users to show any strong interest in taking on the additional workload.

On 3/8, Kranar announced that moderator nominations will conclude on Sunday 3/12, and proceed to a vote thereafter.

[SonoftheNorth]

time4fun as moderators.



r u nutz

[Eodus]

r u nutz

Would you prefer a libertarian?

[SonoftheNorth]

Maybe someone not insane which is the problem with SashaFierce as well. Not that I'd be any better myself.

[Parkbandit]

+1 for Ardwen, Whirlin, ParkBandit, Gelston, and time4fun as moderators. Neutral on SF regarding moderation. I've had only positive experiences with Sasha IG, although I can't speak for anyone else. Plenty of other suitable candidates -- the aforementioned simply tend to be more active than others, intelligent, and for the most part, not bat-shit crazy.



There is only 1 from your list that would be a good moderator.. and it's certainly not me, Whirlin, Gelston or time4fun.

And in what fantasy world is time4fun not bat-shit crazy?

[Eodus]

Maybe someone not insane which is the problem with SashaFierce as well. Not that I'd be any better myself.

While I disagree with her politics, fact is we need intelligent, logical, unemotional people moderating this forum. I'll leave the bat-shit crazy determination to the collective community mind.

[Eodus]

There is only 1 from your list that would be a good moderator.. and it's certainly not me, Whirlin, Gelston or time4fun.

Self-deprecation, a sign of intelligence and sound morals. +1

[Archigeek]

I think Whirlin or Ardwen would do fine. Those who are passionate about politics would probably prefer someone apolitical. Personally I prefer very little moderation of the forum. SashaFierce is absolutely a poor choice as moderator... because he lacks moderation. The evidence of him deleting self-incriminating threads is evidence enough of his inability to handle a job that should most often consist of doing nothing.

[Taernath]

+1 Whirlin or Ardwen. Both do and have done a lot for the community.

Definitely no on PB, he spent the better part of a decade harassing users through the anonymous rep system. At least he knows he isn't suited for it. Also no on time4fun, she is anything but unemotional.

[SashaFierce]

I think Whirlin or Ardwen would make good moderators.

[Mogonis]

I think Whirlin or Ardwen would make good moderators.
Given that you're a terrible moderator, it must mean Whirlin and Ardwen would not be good choices! Is that logic sound?

[Eodus]

Those who are passionate about politics would probably prefer someone apolitical.

Agree with this 1000%.


The evidence of him deleting self-incriminating threads is evidence enough of his inability to handle a job that should most often consist of doing nothing.

Agree 1000%. And the community reaction to SF as a moderator kinda speaks for itself. That said, I'm the type of guy to see the best in people, and considering Sasha has just executed the only moderation of this forum that I have ever witnessed, albeit for unpopular and potentially nefarious reasons, then why not?

That is of course unless a handful of others are willing to step up to the plate. Which Ardwen has expressed interest in doing. What about Whirlin?

[Parkbandit]

Definitely no on PB, he spent the better part of a decade harassing users through the anonymous rep system. At least he knows he isn't suited for it. Also no on time4fun, she is anything but unemotional.

I would probably delete really stupid people from the forums.. so I understand your post completely.

[Taernath]

I would probably delete really stupid people from the forums.. so I understand your post completely.

So triggered. But thanks for proving my point.

[Androidpk]

While I disagree with her politics, fact is we need intelligent, logical, unemotional people moderating this forum. I'll leave the bat-shit crazy determination to the collective community mind.

Yeah... you clearly aren't very good at picking out moderators.

[Parkbandit]

So triggered. But thanks for proving my point.

Your point was I shouldn't be a mod? Didn't I already say as such?

Thanks for entertaining me, my little puppet. So easily manipulated.

[Eodus]

Yeah... you clearly aren't very good at picking out moderators.

You may be surprised at the way people act once they have been placed in a position of community-monitored authority. It's a two-way street that may burn one person to the ground. Another may throw down their bullshit, grab a bat, and step up to the plate.


Thanks for entertaining me, my little puppet. So easily manipulated.

That said, it's clear that I made a mistake in one of my recommendations :) Editing the original post.

[Tisket]

I think Whirlin or Ardwen would do fine. Those who are passionate about politics would probably prefer someone apolitical. Personally I prefer very little moderation of the forum. SashaFierce is absolutely a poor choice as moderator... because he lacks moderation. The evidence of him deleting self-incriminating threads is evidence enough of his inability to handle a job that should most often consist of doing nothing.

We've had mods who were anything but apolitical. Hell, Kranar can and has fiercely debated issues himself. Mods are just posters with opinions like the rest of us and there's nothing wrong with them weighing in on one side or another of political issues.

The problem I have with SashaFierce as mod is that he doesn't seem to have good impulse control as evidenced by all the thread scrubbing he's done. That was a pussy move by him.

Also, LOL @ time5fun being unemotional. hahahaha

[SonoftheNorth]

time4fun will delete other peoples bids on blunt weapons lets be honest with ourselves.

[chalion]

We've had mods who were anything but apolitical. Hell, Kranar can and has fiercely debated issues himself. Mods are just posters with opinions like the rest of us and there's nothing wrong with them weighing in on one side or another of political issues.

The problem I have with SashaFierce as mod is that he doesn't seem to have good impulse control as evidenced by all the thread scrubbing he's done. That was a pussy move by him.

Also, LOL @ time5fun being unemotional. hahahaha

He's also transmitting personal information about posters to simutronics without anyone's consent, opening simutronics up to legal ramifications based on what was transmitted.

[Tisket]

He's also transmitting personal information about posters to simutronics without anyone's consent, opening simutronics up to legal ramifications based on what was transmitted.

Really? Well, that doesn't change my opinion of him as a pussy anyway.

[Eodus]

time4fun will delete other peoples bids on blunt weapons lets be honest with ourselves.

Well, she led me directly to a weapon that I'm quite sure she would've preferred to have herself. So, I'm a little biased on the matter of time4fun being pretty awesome in general. Also note, I did say mostly not bat-shit crazy. Pretty sure every member of this forum has a baseline of regular-crazy. Perhaps the confusion lies in that I am merely working from a different comparative scale of crazy here.

[Ltlprprincess]

I would like to offer myself up for mod candidacy. Can we campaign? Surely the voting process is easier than Landing mayoral elections. Do I have to worry about the electoral college?

[Parkbandit]

He's also transmitting personal information about posters to simutronics without anyone's consent, opening simutronics up to legal ramifications based on what was transmitted.

Wut?

[SashaFierce]

He's also transmitting personal information about posters to simutronics without anyone's consent, opening simutronics up to legal ramifications based on what was transmitted.

There is nothing stopping you or anyone else from sending information to simutronics. You don't need anyone's consent.

[chalion]

Just making things clear here. I have no affiliation with the Players' Corner and did not make these arrangements. I was informed last week that SashaFierce could help me identity scammers if needed. Outside that, Simutronics has no dealings with the PC. Getting the ability to post here was an act of God. ~Wyrom

He has not denied that any information was sent or how it was used. This is outside the terms of service agreed upon with Simutronics.

[Eodus]

There is nothing stopping you or anyone else from sending information to simutronics. You don't need anyone's consent.

What information have you transmitted to Simu specifically relating to the matter at hand?

[Parkbandit]

There is nothing stopping you or anyone else from sending information to simutronics. You don't need anyone's consent.

Depends on what is being sent.

Mods have access to things like email addresses, IP addresses, etc.. that a regular poster would not.

If the other information is indeed being passed onto Wyrom/Simutronics.. then that's a whole new ballgame.

[Androidpk]

time4fun will delete other peoples bids on blunt weapons lets be honest with ourselves.

She'll wipe their posts with a cloth.

[Eodus]

He has not denied that any information was sent or how it was used. This is outside the terms of service agreed upon with Simutronics.

And Simu working collaboratively with Kranar to prevent thievery is harming me... how?

Also, please don't hijack my thread. You want to open a discussion about privacy disclosure issues? Please post a new thread about that.

[Parkbandit]

~Wyrom

He has not denied that any information was sent or how it was used. This is outside the terms of service agreed upon with Simutronics.

He also didn't deny that he dresses up as a girl on weekends, touches himself with his left hand for some "strange" and made all the wizard nerfs when he was drunk off his ass.

Maybe we should stick to things that have actually been communicated both ways before we start making accusations.

[Androidpk]

He also didn't deny that he dresses up as a girl on weekends, touches himself with his left hand for some "strange" and made all the wizard nerfs when he was drunk off his ass.

Maybe we should stick to things that have actually been communicated both ways before we start making accusations.

He's Ashliana?

[Tisket]

And Simu working collaboratively with Kranar to prevent thievery is harming me... how?

Also, please don't hijack my thread. You want to open a discussion about privacy disclosure issues? Please post a new thread about that.

Oh for fuck's sake. It's not hijacking, it's on point. Besides, the hijacking of threads are the more interesting aspects. Pull that stick out of your ass.

[Tisket]

Methinks Eodus is trying to play mod himself.

[Parkbandit]

Also, please don't hijack my thread. You want to open a discussion about privacy disclosure issues? Please post a new thread about that.

This ceased being YOUR thread the moment you hit the Post button. That's not how this works.

Stop being a dumb bitch.

[Parkbandit]

Methinks Eodus is trying to play mod himself.

For serious.

[Parkbandit]

He's Ashliana?

You think he only does that on weekends?

Silly Androidpk...

[Eodus]

Oh for fuck's sake. It's not hijacking, it's on point. Besides, the hijacking of threads are the more interesting aspects. Pull that stick out of your ass.

Tisket, your comments are generally my favorite. I like your no-nonsense approach. Not sure why I failed to nominate you, in fact. Hitting myself right now.


Methinks Eodus is trying to play mod himself.

Catch me in a few years when I'm no longer working 90hrs/wk at the office.

Look, my intent was to put a positive spin on the cesspool of discussion surrounding Sasha. And to bring some potential names to the forefront for additional moderator positions, which ARE needed. In either case, I need to get back to work. Let's keep this discussion going though. I'll be back later on tonight.

[Tisket]

Weighing In

Forum Hacked?

The forum has not been hacked. Sasha mentioned that someone had inquired as to whether or not he is a black hat hacker? That was me, inquiring, because there is a vulnerability with a previous version of vBulletin that allows a user to make oneself a superadmin with little to no effort. But does not apply to the current version. As a (white-hat) hacker myself, I was merely curious. Clearly, it would have been a short-lived position had the title been acquired illegitimately.

Why do you dismiss the idea he hacked the forum? Just saying you don't think it was hacked isn't evidence that it wasn't.

Someone else said he'd gotten a pm from Kranar. Well, wouldn't a hacker be able to log in as Kranar?

I guess I just prefer believing it was hacked than that Kranar exercised such poor judgement :(

[Mogonis]

Why do you dismiss the idea he hacked the forum? Just saying you don't think it was hacked isn't evidence that it wasn't.

Someone else said he'd gotten a pm from Kranar. Well, wouldn't a hacker be able to log in as Kranar?

I guess I just prefer believing it was hacked than that Kranar exercised such poor judgement :(

That would make Durakar's response from Kranar make more sense.

[Astray]

Okay, wait. Who nominates t4f? That's like nominating an alligator to watch your children while you go to Disneyland.

[Gelston]

I want no mods.

[Mogonis]

There has to be someone semi-actively able to swoop in and deal with spam and shitstains of society like genocide guy. Otherwise I agree.

[Zaigh]

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/beerocrat/SuperMod.jpg

[Gelston]

There has to be someone semi-actively able to swoop in and deal with spam and shitstains of society like genocide guy. Otherwise I agree.

Eh, I'm fine with that too. As long as spammer are kept under wraps, which Kranar has done fine, I don't care what kind of drivel is posted on here. It is the charm of this place.

[Parkbandit]

I want no mods.

Exactly this.

The only reason we need mods is to stop spam. We haven't had an issue with that in a long time.

[Tisket]

Celephais was a secret mod for a while. Well, secret in that he didn't have it noted in his title. All he did was spam control.

[Tisket]

That was back when all the Marlu stuff was happening. Not sure if he still comes here now.

[Mogonis]

That works. We don't need a moderator to send third parties our info to catch scammers. That's something for Kranar to handle because he's the admin/owner. An active player sure as hell shouldn't be able to.

[Wyrom]

Just so everyone knows. Nothing any unofficial forum would provide would help with scammers. We deal with it with our own tools, nor would we use anything you provided. The only thing it can help with is connecting dots and possibly aid with people affected. I don't know why anyone keeps bringing me into this. I had absolutely nothing to do with any of these changes to the PC moderation, nor have we reached out to Kranar about any recent activity.

Also, to "touch" on what PB said, I don't drink nor do I get drunk. Wizard changes were done sober!

[Ososis]

If I were asked to be a mod, I would just make an alt account and keep it secret. That way I could piss all over the politics folders (like pissing into an ocean of piss) but my mod alt could be judged on his moderating, and not the stank of his piss.

I would not accept such a position, and would instantly loose respect for anyone who considered me suitable for it. Just to be clear.

[Tgo01]

I don't know why anyone keeps bringing me into this.

Because SashaFierce implied he has some sort of communication channel with you in regards to scammers and claims he is helping you catch scammers and that's part of the reason he was made a mod here. He also says he has (or will) provide personal information about us he gains from the PC and hand it over to you. It has nothing to do with you personally, I just don't like the idea that someone on this forum is transmitting any of my personal information from this site to anyone. Period.

We have no idea if any of this is true or not, but SashaFierce, being our latest (and really only active) moderator on this forum makes us all worry about this shit.

[Wyrom]

No one has any official channel with me other than the office. If anyone has information that can help us, please let us know. That goes beyond just the PC.

[SashaFierce]

Because SashaFierce implied he has some sort of communication channel with you in regards to scammers and claims he is helping you catch scammers and that's part of the reason he was made a mod here. He also says he has (or will) provide personal information about us he gains from the PC and hand it over to you. It has nothing to do with you personally, I just don't like the idea that someone on this forum is transmitting any of my personal information from this site to anyone. Period.

We have no idea if any of this is true or not, but SashaFierce, being our latest (and really only active) moderator on this forum makes us all worry about this shit.


I don't have some sort of secret batphone that rings up Wyrom if that's what you're thinking.

Anyone can email him, he's a pretty approachable guy.

[Eodus]

Okay, pretty exhausted right now but just getting back to this. Clearly, my input is neither required or wanted on the matter.

I've said what I wanted to say and my opinions have not changed.

Moving on.

[Parkbandit]

Okay, pretty exhausted right now but just getting back to this. Clearly, my input is neither required or wanted on the matter.

I've said what I wanted to say and my opinions have not changed.

Moving on.

Thank you for clearing this up. I know I was waiting in anticipation of what your final thoughts were in "your" thread.

Finally, some closure.

Go ahead and lock up your thread. It's done.

[Gelston]

If I were asked to be a mod, I would just make an alt account and keep it secret. That way I could piss all over the politics folders (like pissing into an ocean of piss) but my mod alt could be judged on his moderating, and not the stank of his piss.

I would not accept such a position, and would instantly loose respect for anyone who considered me suitable for it. Just to be clear.

Good for you, no one would ever ask you to be a mod.

[Ososis]

Good for you, no one would ever ask you to be a mod.

No shit. I had hoped to stave off the asshattery by clearly marking it as a hypothetical with a little bit of humor. Sorry you have to spread more rep before you can anon neg me again for you hating jokes.

[Gelston]

No shit. I had hoped to stave off the asshattery by clearly marking it as a hypothetical with a little bit of humor. Sorry you have to spread more rep before you can anon neg me again for you hating jokes.

Rep isn't anonymous anymore, idiot. There is a way to see who gives it to you. That is why I don't bother signing it.

[Ososis]

Rep isn't anonymous anymore, idiot. There is a way to see who gives it to you. That is why I don't bother signing it.

Oh is it not? Oh can you? Wow. So that's how I knew it was you? Please go on.

In all seriousness though, your cranky attitude is gonna give you ulcers. enjoy something sometime.

[Gelston]

Oh is it not? Oh can you? Wow. So that's how I knew it was you? Please go on.

In all seriousness though, your cranky attitude is gonna give you ulcers. enjoy something sometime.

You knew that rep I gave you was from me right? Stop whining about it. You said something I felt was stupid, I gave you a negative for it. No need to be a whiny snowflake about it.

[Ososis]

You knew that rep I gave you was from me right? Stop whining about it. You said something I felt was stupid, I gave you a negative for it. No need to be a whiny snowflake about it.

I made a passing snarky comment, you're the one shitting bricks. Possibly literally. Have you considered yoga? I have been told it can be very soothing.

[Gelston]

I made a passing snarky comment, you're the one shitting bricks. Possibly literally. Have you considered yoga? I have been told it can be very soothing.

You're the one whining. That is all.

[Ososis]

You're the one whining. That is all.

No, THAT is all!

[Gelston]

No, THAT is all!

WAAAAAAAAAAAH - Ososis

[Ososis]

WAAAAAAAAAAAH - Ososis

Well I guess you got me there.

[Tisket]

Rep isn't anonymous anymore, idiot. There is a way to see who gives it to you. That is why I don't bother signing it.

I don't have that script running any more so sign your fucking rep to me, bad and good. Don't be lazy.

[Ltlprprincess]

Guys, guys. We can settle this like rational adults. Vote Ltlprprincess for mod today and you will not regret it. Hugs for everyone! #princess2017

[Wrathbringer]

Ardwen should not be a mod. He's semiretarded.

[Eodus]

Guys, guys. We can settle this like rational adults. Vote Ltlprprincess for mod today and you will not regret it. Hugs for everyone! #princess2017

We can create all the polls in the world but comes down to whomever Kranar decides to pick. If anyone. If you want the position, I would advise contacting him directly.

[Ltlprprincess]

We can create all the polls in the world but comes down to whomever Kranar decides to pick. If anyone. If you want the position, I would advise contacting him directly.

You obviously can't tell that I was not serious about this.

[Eodus]

You obviously can't tell that I was not serious about this.

I have an inability to differentiate between humor and non-humor.

More importantly, my message was directed to anyone who actually wants the position.

[Tisket]

Ardwen should not be a mod. He's semiretarded.

So are most of us.

[Wrathbringer]

So are most of us.

beyond that baseline, I mean.

[Eodus]

Ardwen should not be a mod. He's semiretarded.

On the basis of Ardwen's impeccable taste in scotch alone, he should be a mod. He'll need a lot more of it if he becomes one.

[Tisket]

beyond that baseline, I mean.

Well, I think it's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt over the last few days that it doesn't take a genius to moderate the PC.

[Taernath]

On the basis of Ardwen's impeccable taste in scotch alone, he should be a mod. He'll need a lot more of it if he becomes one.

My +1 for Ardwen is withheld until I know what kind of scotch he drinks.

[Nathala Crane]

My +1 for Ardwen is withheld until I know what kind of scotch he drinks.

I think I remember seeing the names Ardbeg and Laphroaig bandied about before. Has my vote.

[Archigeek]

I think I remember seeing the names Ardbeg and Laphroaig bandied about before. Has my vote.

If he doesn't drink Lagavulin we may have to move on to someone else. Peat in a glass, FTW.

[BriarFox]

I hear your argument for lagavulin, but also insist on accepting laphroaig and ardbeg.

[Eodus]

If he doesn't drink Lagavulin we may have to move on to someone else. Peat in a glass, FTW.

Once you've tired of the highlands, the lowlands, the speysides, you will eventually find yourself in bed with islay. That said, I prefer a Balvenie doublewood or an Ichiro Joker when I can get my hands on it. Although the Japanese whiskeys aren't technically scotch, they might as well be.

Hard not to respect a guy whose go-to whiskey happens to be an islay scotch.