Official : Enchanting Updates

[m444w]

New discoveries made by Guildmasters of the Wizard Guild reveals hidden mystical abilities in items that can be enchanted. Wizards can now enchant items that are infused with the power of the elements!

The lore requirement is 100 ranks of elemental lore for the item being enchanted. Such items are more difficult to enchant, but ranks beyond the minimum required in the relevant lore grants an additional bonus.

Wizards who are trained in Elemental Lore, Water will have the ability to reduce the temper times on standard enchanting potions, or reduced lore rank requirements on elemental pre-temper potions. Up to 50 ranks of lore can be offset when infusing (INFUSE) into an elemental pre-temper potion to reduce the ranks needed. If a standard enchant potion is INFUSED, then the temper time can be reduced up to 95 percent for the next pour.

Every 325 mana points from the wizard's stored mana will reduce a temper potion time by 1 percent and every 200 mana points can substitute as 1 lore rank for infusing elemental pre-temper potions.

The SENSE verb has been updated to reveal more clues to the mana flows surrounding the wizard. Once a wizard has achieved level 25, learned the spell Enchant Item (925) and has at least 5 ranks of Elemental Lore, Water; they will begin to accrue stored mana in their own personal mana pool. Further bonuses to speed up the accumulation of mana points follow a seed 5 summation. F2P wizards do not have stored mana pools. Every 30 of base experience absorbed will result in 1 mana point at 5 ranks of Elemental Lore, Water.

The maximum amount of mana that can be stored per week is 10,000, and a grand total of 35,000 mana points can be stored.

New elemental pre-temper formulas have been uncovered buried in the stacks of tomes in the Wizard Guild Library. Four formulas, one for each of the base elements; air, fire, earth and water can now be made by Master Alchemists in the Wizard Guild. Also, rumors of extremely rare greater elemental essences have been reported as well. These greater essences are required ingredients for the elemental pre-temper potions.

It is no longer possible to completely destroy an enchanting project. This includes attacking with a tempered weapon (which is still not possible, but also won't result in item loss), as well as catastrophic enchanting failures. The new failure conditions will be; a delay, damaged, locked or reset project.

The worst failure is a project RESET. This will remove all progress made on the item.

A LOCKED project prevents a wizard from moving forward on it. Some highly skilled merchants can be found to remove the locked status of the project which will allow the wizard to continue where they left off. The project can also be RESET by using a common remove temper potion to remove the LOCKED status.

A DAMAGED failure will setback the step progression on the project.

A DELAY failure will just delay the temper time.

Finally! Wizards will now have the ability to gauge their chances of a successful enchantment prior to their final cast. Due to the varying factors involved with enchanting, and the use of certain potions; one cannot gauge their chances without tempering the item first. Simply CASTing at the item will give the wizard a reading and CHANNELing will attempt the enchant.

~Contemplar~


http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Wizards/Enchanting/thread/1830103

[chalion]

>Can you infuse multiple potions?
Yes. The amount infused will depend on how much you've stored in your personal mana pool. INFUSE will always try to maximize the amount in the infusion.

>Do infused potions have any sort of decay timer?
No. They will last indefinitely.

>can you infuse a potion and trade it for someone else to use?
No. The infused potion can only be used by the person who infused it.


Also, only elemental flares, no acuity/mana flares.

[Zaigh]

Anyone gathering data points on this yet?

at Seed point 1 (5 ranks) - 1mana / 30exp (from original post)
at Seed point 6 (45 ranks) - approx 6 mana / 30exp (Kithus)
at Seed point 8 (68 ranks) - approx 6.6 mana / 30exp (chalion 96 mana / 435 exp)

[chalion]

435 experience absorbed this morning
96 mana points
78 ranks of water

[Donquix]

hrm, so i'm pretty water lore heavy now (100 ranks), haven't had a chance to hunt yet. But given the above numbers for 68 ranks as a minium if that's 6.6 mana per 30 exp, 10k mana stored per week max that's...

(10000 / 6.6)*30 = ~45k exp per week to max out for the week.

with the 5 ranks water lore it would be 300k exp

if you have enough water lore to max your 10k per week: 10000 / 325 = ~30% off for your next pour per week

if 7x enchant pours are ~14 days: 14*.7 = 9.8 days per pour with water lore. So you save about a month (28 days) for a full 7x project if you do it as you go.

a full 95% reduction takes: 95*325 = 30875 mana, or about 3 weeks worth of energy. So if you infuse 7 poitions to a max 95% off the next temper, it would take 21 weeks (5 months give or take). You would then be able to do 7x pours at 14 days in: 14*0.05 = .7 days per, call it a day. So you could save up for 21 weeks and do a 7x project in a week, or 22 weeks of work.

For comparison a sorcerer taking something from T0 to T5 takes: (.5*5) + (.5 * (1+2+3+4+5)) = 10 weeks

[wetsand]

I'm glad to see changes but they don't really seem all that great. Yay to no more destroyed items but the infusing/exp seems kinda meh in comparison to ensorcelling.

[Kithus]

Just going to re-post this here for those trying to figure this out:

My last experience had been a consistent 6 mana per 72 exp (with 3x Lumnis). Now I'm saturated and pulsing 105 and still getting 6 stored mana per pulse. Oddly though I received a pulse and ended up getting 12 mana. Based on this I have a theory:

Mana per 30 exp is increased by 1 mana per step on a seed 5 summation. So instead of 1 per 30 I am getting 6 per 30. This is based off BASE pre-Lumnis exp. So when I was pulsing for 72 (24 pre Lumnis) I was seeing increases of 6 mana each time that 30 mana threshold was hit. Now that I'm pulsing 105 (35 pre Lumnis) I am occasionally crossing that 30 mana per threshold twice, hence the 12 mana pulse. Does this jive with what others are seeing?

[Zaigh]

The 68 rank seed point didn't show that, but no clue if chalion was on Lumnis or RPA during any of it. I'm migrating some points over so I can hit 11 ranks and have seed point 2 data in place this evening.

[chalion]

I have 78 ranks, and it was BASE absorption, he posted that the fractions arent rounded either way, implying they are tracked?

[Zaigh]

the summation seed points for base 5 around your ranks are at 68 and 81, therefore I counted you at the 68 point.

[chalion]

im getting between 7-8 per 30 exp absorbed. It's certainly not an even 7 or 8.
Also, mana points week is tied to lumnis, like ensorcelling apparently.

[mgoddess]

Yay to no more destroyed items
This is the thing I'm most happiest about. I've dreaded handing over any of the stuff that I really want to get enchanted, because I don't enjoy the thought of the old 3% failure rate coming out. Now, the only thing I would worry about, would be timing, and I've got plenty of that to spare.

[Androidpk]

This is the thing I'm most happiest about. I've dreaded handing over any of the stuff that I really want to get enchanted, because I don't enjoy the thought of the old 3% failure rate coming out. Now, the only thing I would worry about, would be timing, and I've got plenty of that to spare.

+

[chalion]

Estild - It's linear. The average base experience gained per pulse by players is also 30. So using that with the seed 5 summation chart, you can calculate how long it takes to reach the weekly cap of 10,000 mana points. At 5 ranks of EL:W, it's 166 hours. At 35 ranks, 33 hours. At 81 ranks, it's 18 hours. At 110 ranks, it's 15 hours. etc. The entire lore benefit is designed with a water mage in mind, so if you're just going to stick with 5 ranks, yes, you can mostly expect not to gain much out of the Elemental Lore, Water benefit.

[Donquix]

Indeed. I still would have just you know, prefered a copy and paste of ensorcell, save a lot of headaches, but if nothing else there's that now.

also 100 ranks of water lore, every time I pulse and absorb a little more than 30 exp unmodified (currently on 2x gift so i'm actually "learning" 60+ exp, but it's base sadly) my mana pool goes up 10. Which is bang on for the 95 rank seed 5 breakpoint bonus of 10.

so at 1x water lore at cap you need:
10000 / 10 = 1000*30 = 30k exp per week to cap out your stored mana, or roughly 300 same level kills.

My sorcerer with ~100 necrolore needs to kill ~500, however I can powerhunt him and do that much quicker overall, wizard you have to gain the exp. :\ More of a hit to pocket wizard, depending on how you look at it (account has to be actively logged on much more)

edit: and booo, figured this would be the case but instant absorb from bounty doesn't yield any juice :|

[drauz]

Indeed. I still would have just you know, prefered a copy and paste of ensorcell, save a lot of headaches, but if nothing else there's that now.

also 100 ranks of water lore, every time I pulse and absorb a little more than 30 exp unmodified (currently on 2x gift so i'm actually "learning" 60+ exp, but it's base sadly) my mana pool goes up 10. Which is bang on for the 95 rank seed 5 breakpoint bonus of 10.

so at 1x water lore at cap you need:
10000 / 10 = 1000*30 = 30k exp per week to cap out your stored mana, or roughly 300 same level kills.

My sorcerer with ~100 necrolore needs to kill ~500, however I can powerhunt him and do that much quicker overall, wizard you have to gain the exp. :\ More of a hit to pocket wizard, depending on how you look at it (account has to be actively logged on much more)

edit: and booo, figured this would be the case but instant absorb from bounty doesn't yield any juice :|

Yeah, I can't say I'm impressed with the stored mana mechanic. Was really hoping they would take the feedback given by most everyone on the forums and move it to be like ensorcell. Really would have been better to copy the mechanic from ensorcell. So you can hunt at saturated and hurry the process along. Ensorcell is already a superior mechanic over enchant, and enchant is still WAY more time consuming, harder, and requires WAY more lore to use all aspects of it.

I am pleased with the item destruction change, but that seems to be the only real shining star of these changes. The stored mana is just archaic requiring you to sit and absorb experience.

[BigWorm]

The LOCKED status seems pointless. Since you can only have one major project at a time and they also confirmed that tempers are removed after 30 days of inactivity, unless this is a really merchant common service, I don't see many situations where it wouldn't make sense to just remove the temper immediately after a LOCKED failure.

[JNewhall]

The LOCKED status seems pointless. Since you can only have one major project at a time and they also confirmed that tempers are removed after 30 days of inactivity, unless this is a really merchant common service, I don't see many situations where it wouldn't make sense to just remove the temper immediately after a LOCKED failure.

I agree. I keep thinking I'm missing something about LOCKED for all those reasons.

[drauz]

The LOCKED status seems pointless. Since you can only have one major project at a time and they also confirmed that tempers are removed after 30 days of inactivity, unless this is a really merchant common service, I don't see many situations where it wouldn't make sense to just remove the temper immediately after a LOCKED failure.

They have problems with tedium, they can't seem to see it when its staring them in the face. You are correct, unless this is like a weekly service there is little point in not removing the temper straight away. They could have just made it so that the temper automatically is removed and saved the player time and unnecessary tedium, but they didn't.

[chalion]

for what its worth, the example would be a high level project, 8x,9x,10x where the losing the entire step might suffer $$ and huge time investment factors.

[drauz]

for what its worth, the example would be a high level project, 8x,9x,10x where the losing the entire step might suffer $$ and huge time investment factors.

It will all depend on how often the service is offered.

[chalion]

True, hopefully its "any merchant at all" kinda like GLAD+unlock... GLADU!
so premium would have a benefit

[Donquix]

It brings nothing of value, and it is another pointless thing you have to worry about. Would the game be worse off, from any standpoint (balance, rp, economy, etc.) if you just replaced every LOCKED failure with a the next step down (lose temper)?

like why bother with this? Honestly I think it's the worst part of the review. It's just utterly pointless.

[Jymamon]

It brings nothing of value, and it is another pointless thing you have to worry about. Would the game be worse off, from any standpoint (balance, rp, economy, etc.) if you just replaced every LOCKED failure with a the next step down (lose temper)?

like why bother with this? Honestly I think it's the worst part of the review. It's just utterly pointless.
There are times when I'd definitely take LOCKED over reset to a lower step. Like the last cast of an 8x-9x enchant (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?71143-I-despire-3-failures) where I may not have enough pours to start over. Since we can reset it ourselves with an potion, this seems like mostly a good feature to me. (Insert caveats that the merchant needs to be reasonably available. I wouldn't want to tie up my major slot for a service that only comes around every few years.)

[Donquix]

There are times when I'd definitely take LOCKED over reset to a lower step. Like the last cast of an 8x-9x enchant (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?71143-I-despire-3-failures) where I may not have enough pours to start over. Since we can reset it ourselves with an potion, this seems like mostly a good feature to me. (Insert caveats that the merchant needs to be reasonably available. I wouldn't want to tie up my major slot for a service that only comes around every few years.)

Yes, lets make a shitty option for everyone because of random auction quality temper potions we get like 1 of a year. (yes i realize if it worked that way it would also be helpful for elemental/sanctified/enhancive pretempers)

Plus i'm fairly certain locked is exactly the same as damaged, in that you pick up where you left off. i.e. damaged you fail on cast 9 going to 10x, it falls back to 8 completed tempers/casts and you retemper to eventually attempt cast 9 again. Locked is the same with the added pain in the ass of needing to get it unlocked first. I doubt you will get it unlocked and be ready to make cast 9 again without another temper, in this example.

[chalion]

locked you pick up right where it was, meaning you at worse just wait for the temper time again, you dont need to repour. The way everyone wants any risk taken out of this game I'd think half of you would be happy watching fucking progress quest numbers increase.
Here you go, heres a nice safe fun game to play: http://progressquest.com/

[Soulance]

It would be much neater if you could go into a workshop or something and infuse your own mana into yourself or something like that. Otherwise, it'll be interesting to see what comes out of this. At least it's a little better than it was...

[drauz]

locked you pick up right where it was, meaning you at worse just wait for the temper time again, you dont need to repour. The way everyone wants any risk taken out of this game I'd think half of you would be happy watching fucking progress quest numbers increase.
Here you go, heres a nice safe fun game to play: http://progressquest.com/

I mean it sounded like people were saying don't lock it and require an extra step, just take the temper off and make you start again. Dark Souls is more forgiving, damn.

[Jymamon]

lets make a shitty option for everyone
If having to pour a temper removal potion is in some unlikely circumstance is "shitty", we have differing base opinions. 3 of my last 10 projects (I don't bother enchanting much, so those 10 are 4+ years of time) were 8x or better. I'll take a random chance to have to restart any of the 7 (because under 8x, I am just going to take that option) using common potions for a random chance to need a merchant for the other 3.


I doubt you will get it unlocked and be ready to make cast 9 again without another temper, in this example.
As I understood the post...
- RESET - back to the prior enchant.
- LOCKED - right were you were but need a merchant. May or may not need to wait for temper time again. Even if I have to repour, it is one pour, not possibly multiple.
- DAMAGED - lose one or more tempers already complete. Start again from somewhere along the way.
- DELAY - need to wait longer for the current temper.
Which does make LOCKED sound better than DAMAGED for any high level enchant, so I may be wrong based on the order they were presented. If I'm incorrect about what locked means, I could very well change my opinion on it.

[chalion]

The purpose of the LOCKED status is to allow the enchanter a means to continue on with the project where it was without RESETTING it. That means it will be possible for enchanters to seek out a merchant to unlock it and move on. The RESET option is there for the enchanter to remove the LOCKED status, but also lose all progress on it. Thus, if you were at step 9 of a 10x project and LOCKED it, you have 2 options. Wait and find a merchant to unlock it and continue on, or completely reset it and start over at 9x again.

It's somewhat less forgiving than the worst possible outcome- immediately start the whole enchant step over from the starting pour.

[Donquix]

locked you pick up right where it was, meaning you at worse just wait for the temper time again, you dont need to repour. The way everyone wants any risk taken out of this game I'd think half of you would be happy watching fucking progress quest numbers increase.
Here you go, heres a nice safe fun game to play: http://progressquest.com/

Clearly for suggesting repercussions that aren't idiotic we're filthy casuals.

Fun fact: Even if the merchants are commonly available locking also disproportionately affects players who can't logon during primetime hours! You play between 10pm and 6am? hahah, sorry...enchanting is worse for you. But why think about things logically? That means you're whining for no reason.

[chalion]

Clearly for suggesting repercussions that aren't idiotic we're filthy casuals.

Fun fact: Even if the merchants are commonly available locking also disproportionately affects players who can't logon during primetime hours! You play between 10pm and 6am? hahah, sorry...enchanting is worse for you. But why think about things logically? That means you're whining for no reason.

No, just that you have a very flimsy leg to stand on, you dont HAVE to find the merchant. You can reset all progress and start over, just like the worst possible outcome. You dont HAVE to find a merchant.

[Jymamon]

You play between 10pm and 6am? hahah, sorry...enchanting is worse for you. But why think about things logically? That means you're whining for no reason.
Item destuction is gone and you can still chose to reset. IIRC, the prior level of failure in the LOCKED slot, took you backwards in enchant level. (Your project going to 7x would become 5x or lower.) I'm not seeing how this is worse. Maybe no better if you can never find the merchant, but not worse.

Did I hope the changes would be better than this? Sure. But that doesn't make this worse than what we had previously.

(From someone who is mostly on 10PM-6AM Pacific.)

[Nathala Crane]

If it were me, I think I'd hand the piece over to a friend I trust and have them go to the merchant for me.

Granted, that only really works for merchants that are announced in advance, but I would personally feel better about avoiding a total reset and holding onto it until an opportunity to unlock came about.

[drauz]

Item destuction is gone and you can still chose to reset. IIRC, the prior level of failure in the LOCKED slot, took you backwards in enchant level. (Your project going to 7x would become 5x or lower.) I'm not seeing how this is worse. Maybe no better if you can never find the merchant, but not worse.

Did I hope the changes would be better than this? Sure. But that doesn't make this worse than what we had previously.

(From someone who is mostly on 10PM-6AM Pacific.)

Its not that its worse than it was, its just that for the me and I would guess the majority the locked item will just be untempered and tried again. This is better than it blowing up of course, but there is a step there that I probably won't ever see the benefit for. Untempering I've had take a few days so the punishment is that not only did you fail the enchant and have to start over but you have to also wait sometimes 1-3 days to start over again.

[drauz]

If it were me, I think I'd hand the piece over to a friend I trust and have them go to the merchant for me.

Granted, that only really works for merchants that are announced in advance, but I would personally feel better about avoiding a total reset and holding onto it until an opportunity to unlock came about.

I think the problem is that tempers fall off after a month. If the locked status allows the temper to hold on the item this wouldn't be so bad. It really all comes down to how often the service is available.

[Whirlin]

So, with locked... the thing that you're missing is that you can always use a temper reset potion (blanking on the name) to remove the lock without the use of a merchant... so I'm not too concerned with it. It's just in those super late tempers or 8-9-10 that may want to just wait for a merchant rather than reset it.

I'm pretty disappointing that the mana storage thing is based on water lore. I really think it should have been EMC based, that's my biggest critique. I MAY pick up 5 ranks of water lore, and just forget about it and eventually get a free temper out of it... but honestly, SEED 5 doesn't really seem to make water lore more valuable than the air/earth/fire splits. I'd still sooner consider going heavier into Earth for more 950 activations compared to Water Lore.

[drauz]

I think they should just take off that restrictions and place penalties to success rolls on doing the enchant, like ensorcell is. Let players do everything merchants do now, enchant crit weighted/padded items, flaring items, the whole kitten kaboodle. So an 8x MCW weapon would still require a merchant to complete, but you could get it to that place by yourself (at cap).

[BigWorm]

So, with locked... the thing that you're missing is that you can always use a temper reset potion (blanking on the name) to remove the lock without the use of a merchant... so I'm not too concerned with it. It's just in those super late tempers or 8-9-10 that may want to just wait for a merchant rather than reset it.

The extra complication of another failure state that is possibly sometimes useful for the least common enchants is not worth it imo. I think it is an interesting idea in concept, but in practice it seems like a distinction without difference compared to the RESET failure. Offering this as a service seems like a lose-lose; either it is rare enough that its not worth considering or it's common and people will complain about a common service only useful to a single profession.

[Aluvius]

Yeah, looking at all of the other specialized merchant services over the last few years that have dropped off the face of the earth within months of introduction ... I don't think we'll see enchant unlock merchants enough to make it usable. Just another odd mechanic for this spell (and wizard spells in general) that leaves me scratching my head.

[Gelston]

They are wanting to create services for merchants to do other than GALD, and this is one of the ways.

[drauz]

They are wanting to create services for merchants to do other than GALD, and this is one of the ways.

They already have tons of services they could offer instead of GALD. Unlocking one of a million items that have tiered unlocks.

Now if they had this automated, like a "NPC" shows up once a month in say TSSW and you give item to NPC, they give you a price, and you give it to them again to get the service done automatically. That is something I would be fine with.

[Gelston]

They already have tons of services they could offer instead of GALD. Unlocking one of a million items that have tiered unlocks.

Now if they had this automated, like a "NPC" shows up once a month in say TSSW and you give item to NPC, they give you a price, and you give it to them again to get the service done automatically. That is something I would be fine with.

Oh, I think it is dumb and should be an automated service done through a wizard guild NPC or perhaps even a guild skill a player can learn. I'm just throwing out their likely rationale for it.

[drauz]

Oh, I think it is dumb and should be an automated service done through a wizard guild NPC or perhaps even a guild skill a player can learn. I'm just throwing out their likely rationale for it.

Only squares are allowed to have useful guild skills, but a useful guild skill other than alchemy would be amazing.

[phantasm]

So, trying to understand this mana store processing that makes temper potions more potent. You get a weekly top limit, then infuse that into a potion. So ideally. You want to always have a 7x pour potion you are infusing mana into every week until its ready to use?

Using the numbers he quoted 325 mana to reduce the temper time 1%. You can get the temper reduction up to 95% so around 30k mana or 3 weeks worth of 10k.

Am I understanding this correctly. Can you infuse into the potion multiple times. Or can you only do the infusion into the potion once. And thus would require a high mana store limit to do all 30k

[Jymamon]

Am I understanding this correctly. Can you infuse into the potion multiple times. Or can you only do the infusion into the potion once. And thus would require a high mana store limit to do all 30k

A potion can only be infused once before it is poured and that infusion only affects the next pour from it. Once you've infused+poured, though, you can infuse again for the next pour.
The mana pool limit is 35K, so you can infuse a potion down to 95% and have some pool mana left over.

[chalion]

They already have tons of services they could offer instead of GALD. Unlocking one of a million items that have tiered unlocks.

Now if they had this automated, like a "NPC" shows up once a month in say TSSW and you give item to NPC, they give you a price, and you give it to them again to get the service done automatically. That is something I would be fine with.

Didn't Wyrom say this is something they are looking into? For unlocking items? Some way to unlock more items with merchants/without? Look how they automated this recent event. If current development is focused on doing that, and freeing up GMs to run more storylines (seems we had 2-3 going on at times) and individual RP stuff, I think thats the best direction to continue.
Also yeah, it would be great if this was in fact all done with silvers, creating a much needed silver sink, even if its not crazy high prices (I'm sure it would be crazy high prices or SC purchased tokens). But that would be a whole different theory to discuss.

[chalion]

A potion can only be infused once before it is poured and that infusion only affects the next pour from it. Once you've infused+poured, though, you can infuse again for the next pour.
The mana pool limit is 35K, so you can infuse a potion down to 95% and have some pool mana left over.

This is correct. You can infuse multiple different potions ahead of time if you wanted to prepare to do a whole enchat at 95%. It would take 21 weeks to prepare seven potions for ~93% reduction. 24 if you want the full 95%.

[drauz]

Didn't Wyrom say this is something they are looking into? For unlocking items? Some way to unlock more items with merchants/without? Look how they automated this recent event. If current development is focused on doing that, and freeing up GMs to run more storylines (seems we had 2-3 going on at times) and individual RP stuff, I think thats the best direction to continue.
Also yeah, it would be great if this was in fact all done with silvers, creating a much needed silver sink, even if its not crazy high prices (I'm sure it would be crazy high prices or SC purchased tokens). But that would be a whole different theory to discuss.

Didn't he also say they were looking to move away from disarm mechanics? Doesn't the new OTF champion disarm?

[chalion]

Actually, Wyrom said that if it was up to him he'd disarm everyone and put in breakage. Or something similar to that. But yeah, the game is TRYING to move away from disarm because it never properly implemented a way to replace higher end items in a reasonable manner when those items are lost/destroyed.
If the game had not locked item progression behind so many barriers it wouldn't be a big deal to have catastrophic item destruction and disarming. You'd spend a month or two recreating the item or what have you.

[drauz]

Actually, Wyrom said that if it was up to him he'd disarm everyone and put in breakage. Or something similar to that. But yeah, the game is TRYING to move away from disarm because it never properly implemented a way to replace higher end items in a reasonable manner when those items are lost/destroyed.
If the game had not locked item progression behind so many barriers it wouldn't be a big deal to have catastrophic item destruction and disarming. You'd spend a month or two recreating the item or what have you.

I guess I was misremembering. I found the post and he mentioned it was being discussed. He then mentioned a system was being worked on (I assume to get items lost to disarm back) and that considerable work was started but couldn't give any sort of ETA on when/if it would be implemented. This is from October of 2015. He also said is wasn't a top priority and the HSN (like the enchant change from this thread) changes still needed to be completed.

[Gelston]

Breakage and item destruction were/would have been great things for the game when there were a lot more people on. Now, eh... One of the things that tends to hold people to this game is the amount of time and money they've invested into it... Being signified by gear and weapons and stuff. They want to retain so those gear and weapons being destroyed kinda works against that.

[macgyver]

This change just fucked my long term plans with my baby wiz. But I like it because Wyrom is Lord! and GS is so much better than no GMs DR.

[Stry]

This change just fucked my long term plans with my baby wiz.

And suddenly the PC was 100% supportive of the enchant changes...

[kutter]

My wiz is not water trained so this is mostly sort of meh for me, will I look at getting 5 ranks in it at some point, maybe, but for now he is trained to hunt. I suppose for post-cap wizards this is pretty good since they would tend to have a lot more lores, but with my wizard I know I am not focusing so much on lores at 70 as I am on spells, so the really nice thing for me is the not blowing stuff up, given that just a few weeks ago he destroyed a perfect bastard sword on the final enchant of a 5-6.

[BigWorm]

Oh, I think it is dumb and should be an automated service done through a wizard guild NPC or perhaps even a guild skill a player can learn. I'm just throwing out their likely rationale for it.


Only squares are allowed to have useful guild skills, but a useful guild skill other than alchemy would be amazing.

But alchemy would actually be a decent way of fleshing this out. Creating the potions offers an optional time/silver sink for players to who are willing to put in the investment to get a larger amount of silvers for selling the potion.

I don't think the LOCKED status will have a meaningful impact on my enchanting projects (ie I will just treat it like a RESET that requires me to manually reset it), and overall I think these changes are improvements. However, I think the implementation and approach here could have been handled better and reflects a common issue with GS game dev. They need to move away from monolithic releases and ship changes in smaller batches. Why release all of these changes at the same time?

Start with the failure fixes. People really, really hate item destruction, so fixing that is your top priority. This is GS and we need something more interesting than a binary success/failure system, so you propose a design with the DELAY, DAMAGED, LOCKED, and RESET failure possibilities. LOCKED is a really cool idea, but it adds complexity to the project to implement it in a meaningful way; to do it right, you need to have the merchant service ready to ship at pretty much the same time. This is clearly not worth imo because dev time is your most constrained resource, it requires much more QA (eg GM item service interaction testing) which is pretty clearly another bottleneck, and unlike the rest of this update it also requires buy in from the Events team. Let's put that in the list of cool ideas we might do later and instead expand the RESET tier to include any LOCKED failure. You ship faster and people are super happy about the changes because it removes the pain point while preserving the meaningful depth that appeals to the player base.

Let's think about the big picture here. Okay, we cut some complexity by making the worst failure state more likely in the new design. But this is still a HUGE improvement over the old system and that's the only thing players are going to measure it against. Maybe down the road after the hardcores have done a few enchanting projects they bring up that it seems like the RESET failure is too common. You have this idea in your back pocket if you haven't thought of some even better failures to flesh out the system. Maybe you decide the alchemy system is a better way to handle unlocking. Players have no idea that LOCKED was part of the initial design so they feel like you are responding to their concerns. I think it is way more likely that players never notice this because most are very failure averse and instead of coding the LOCKED state for the initial release, you worked on implementing the difficulty check which was one of the other major player complaints and lets them minimize the chances of hitting those states.

Think about how this could have affected the design of the flared enchanting system. The difficulty check development and release provides some runway into those changes which which feel like they might need some more back and forth with the playerbase to get right. Oh cool, another GM released Mage Armor which players generally responded to positively. Can we incorporate anything from that approach to the flared enchanting system? Oh I see, players like have a minimal base ability even if there are penalties and want to use lore to increase the power and chance of success of that spell in relation to the element. Maybe we make it possible to do minor enchanting projects with minimal/no lore requirements but ramp up the difficulty for not having a meaningful lore investment in the element. 4x flaring weapons and eblades are already so common that this has almost no effect on game balance but provides a way for players to improve their existing items to baseline levels. Any major project would still require a significant lore investment and I think you could even ramp up the high end to require more than 100 ranks for 7x+ projects. It addresses player complaints that elemental generalists are rewarded over specialists and makes thematic sense in that you need to seek out a powerful fire mage to enchant a high end fire flaring weapon.

[Soulance]

It'd be nice if alchemy wasn't as big a pain in the rear to achieve.

[macgayver]

But alchemy would actually be a decent way of fleshing this out. Creating the potions offers an optional time/silver sink for players to who are willing to put in the investment to get a larger amount of silvers for selling the potion.

Alchemy is just the worst thing ever. I've never heard someone say they are looking forward to leveling alchemy or enjoyed doing so.

[Whirlin]

Alchemy is just the worst thing ever. I've never heard someone say they are looking forward to leveling alchemy or enjoyed doing so.

I look forward to alchemy more than your posts.

[macgayver]

I look forward to alchemy more than your posts.

You're the only one, didn't you see how much people love me in the poll I took?!

[Gelston]

I look forward to alchemy more than your posts.

That is Macgayver. Macgayver is cool.

[Wyrom]

>>Re: Disarm (yes I'm using the officials formatting, deal with it :cool_rsvd:)

Disarm is still being worked on, but it's a much larger project and involves a lot more balance updates. There are other projects with a higher priority level as well. Like getting these enchant changes out and finishing the round of wizard updates done.

[Androidpk]

And savants!

[Ososis]

>>Re: Disarm (yes I'm using the officials formatting, deal with it :cool_rsvd:)

Disarm is still being worked on, but it's a much larger project and involves a lot more balance updates. There are other projects with a higher priority level as well. Like getting these enchant changes out and finishing the round of wizard updates done.

Any chance the snake disarm could be treated like a stun during berserk? As it stands now if I get snaked during berserk I just stand there doing nothing for up to a minute, and usually die. This seems a little lame that it's now most deadly against warriors who train disarm. Just my 2 cents since the subject came up.

[macgyver]

>>Re: Disarm (yes I'm using the officials formatting, deal with it :cool_rsvd:)

Disarm is still being worked on, but it's a much larger project and involves a lot more balance updates. There are other projects with a higher priority level as well. Like getting these enchant changes out and finishing the round of wizard updates done.

I just hope breakage in some form or another will appear in the near future. I would really like for those DUR/STR numbers to actually mean something. Temporary breakage mind you, nothing permanent, BUT temporary that means something (not a nuisance like in DR) i.e. total catastrophic breakage = 30 days of "fix time".

[Velfi]

http://i.imgur.com/43Lzdjt.jpg

[Ososis]

I just hope breakage in some form or another will appear in the near future. I would really like for those DUR/STR numbers to actually mean something. Temporary breakage mind you, nothing permanent, BUT temporary that means something (not a nuisance like in DR) i.e. total catastrophic breakage = 30 days of "fix time".

Your opinion is not worth a whit, your thoughts are and always have been intentionally stupid and obvious trolls. Such as advocating breakage, perhaps the #1 most hated idea in the community.
You have been voted away. Have some self respect and just disappear.

[macgyver]

Your opinion is not worth a whit, your thoughts are and always have been intentionally stupid and obvious trolls. Such as advocating breakage, perhaps the #1 most hated idea in the community.
You have been voted away. Have some self respect and just disappear.

Actually, I haven't been voted away. Secondly, apart from the "I'm living off Gemstone as my primary income source" people which I don't like but can respect (as it's been part of the game since AoL days) breakage can add a really cool in-game mechanic/effect to the game. Think about it! You swing your vultite Claidhmore thinking you got that kneeling and stunned Ithzir then...CRASH! your vultite claidhmore shatters into three pieces on the ground! You scramble for your spare weapon but can you get it out in time after your swing and weapon break RT?! Stay tuned!!

[Wrathbringer]

I'm a retarded fag.

agreed.

[macgyver]

agreed.

Wow, that's pretty harsh.

Um, am I like the only dude on here who actually plays this game because it's a game and not a small business?

I would frankly like to see Simu get more money, item breakage magic glue in the simustore? 500 SC. Thoughts?

[Ososis]

88% of the vote (even including your 4+ alts who voted they LOVE you, lol) want you to leave. 25 votes, the benchmark YOU set, has been surpassed. Kindly fuck off back to your dung heap.

[macgyver]

88% of the vote (even including your 4+ alts who voted they LOVE you, lol) want you to leave. 25 votes, the benchmark YOU set, has been surpassed. Kindly fuck off back to your dung heap.

Where does it say 88% I see 60.42%, perhaps learn 2 read? Oh dear, how ever do you play the game?

[Ososis]

Where does it say 88% I see 60.42%, perhaps learn 2 read? Oh dear, how ever do you play the game?

Oooh! You make me so mad with your biting insults! Lol.

You're right, it's no longer 88, didn't realize you were still rigging the vote. So now it's only 78% of people never want to see you again. That's still enough.

Ps. 60+18=78


Oops! Changed again. Amazing timing.

[beldannon5]

Silly question probably but where would unbalance flares fall

[macgyver]

Oooh! You make me so mad with your biting insults! Lol.

You're right, it's no longer 88, didn't realize you were still rigging the vote. So now it's only 78% of people never want to see you again. That's still enough.

Ps. 60+18=78

Just not that bright are you? Why don't you re-read the main body of that post!

[chalion]

They are not an elemental flare, thus can't be enchanted.

[Ososis]

Just not that bright are you? Why don't you re-read the main body of that post!

Naw, explain your point or shut your mouth. But, to save time, I will assume your thoughts require a single vote to hit 65%. But you need to realize "leave the forums forever" and "delete all GSIV and pretend in never existed" overlap each other. In either case the expectation is you to leave the PC. More than 65% want that.

EDIT I have always known you won't leave. I called it last time too. I just want to be really clear that most people actively dislike you, and would consider their life better if you were not around. Done playing with you for now.

[gs4Pawn]

The EXP is O.K.... but I'd rather the number of kills.

Wyrom we need to always balance our time verses RL.

having to play 30ish hours a week to lower a temper time seems to be a bit much.

Killing a similar number of mobs like a Necro would be better. We could group up for 4-6 hours kill the required number of mobs and then do other stuff.

[Wrathbringer]

I'm just glad they didn't make hunting mandatory to enchant. I enjoy enchanting things, but I don't enjoy hunting pures, especially with an enchanting build.

[macgyver]

I think Wyrom knows what he's doing, he's got the #'s in front of him and there's probably a damn good reason why it takes this long. I don't mind, overall it was a net gain especially after no item destruction.

[Wrathbringer]

I think Wyrom knows that I'm a retarded dipshit.

I think so too.

[drauz]

>>Re: Disarm (yes I'm using the officials formatting, deal with it :cool_rsvd:)

Disarm is still being worked on, but it's a much larger project and involves a lot more balance updates. There are other projects with a higher priority level as well. Like getting these enchant changes out and finishing the round of wizard updates done.

I will not deal with. Don't you bring that heap of crap forums over here, we might get infected.

http://i.imgur.com/MXQ6gla.gif

[Wyrom]

I laughed.

[drauz]

I laughed.

What other wizard updates are left to be done?

[Yulis]

What other wizard updates are left to be done?

Probably start adding minimum lore requirements for all spells to function/unlock.

[in bad infomercial voice]
You want to be able to use 901 to bolt? Today is your lucky day!

All you need is 2...yes, that right! Just 2 ranks of lore to cast this spell. 1 rank in water and 1 rank in air. It's simple! You invest those lores and you can bolt all day and night as long as you have mana to spend! Maybe instead you want to cast 904 and shoot minor acid at things? That's just fine and easy to achieve! Simply make sure you have a total of 5 ranks of lore in earth and 5 ranks of lore in water. Yes, that's right! Earth lore and water lore, they mix to create minor acid. Simply train up those 10 ranks of lore and you're on your way to slinging acid bolts at all who dare to defy you!

And what's that? You say you're feeling kind of short on mana? No need to fear! A fix is here to help you along the way! You no longer need to worry about training Harness Power to earn mana, we've changed it over to Elemental Lore: Water! Yes, EL:W! You heard me right. A few extra ranks put into EL:W and you'll be right as rain on increasing your mana pool!

Now, now....I can see you're not quiet satisfied with these changes. So, I'll tell you what we're going to do, just for you! We've got right here, a wonderful new item that will be sure to aid any wizard that holds it! Forget your runestaff. They're old and dated. What you need now is a magic wand! Yes, this right here is unlike any other wand. This wand will allow you to cast any of your bolt spells using your own mana. Without this wand that we give you free of charge, you won't actually be able to cast bolt spells. You need this wand to wave at your target and viola! You're bolting! Don't fret your little heart about all the changes, just be sure to focus on your elemental lore fire ranks here so you can properly wave your magic wand to cast bolts! Yes, you heard it here first folks! Every 3 ranks of EL:F allows you to access a new spell level of bolt to cast from your wand! If you want to be able to cast that acid bolt, you'll need the following lores trained in to unlock and be able to wave your magic wand! 5 ranks of EL:E, 5 ranks of EL:W and at the very minimum amount of 12....just 12 ranks of EL:F!

Sounds too good to be true? Ha! That's not the case here. You invest into your lores correctly so you can unlock the proper bolts and train in EL:F to wave the wand, plus train up in enough EL:W to build your mana pool and you'll be better off than you are now.

Now get out there and have fun!

[drauz]

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Wizards/Enchanting/view/1707


Just to answer a previous question, enchant locked items do not expire.

GameMaster Estild