Gems

[Darcthundar]

Is it just me or have the lowered the value of gems and/or trading skills?

[Winter]

Yes there's a cap now on trading skill, I hit it last week on my Wizard. I was told that it was only on non self found loot but it is in fact on everything self looted or not (I don't know if that's a bug or not). The cap does reset after a week and there are ways around it but the fact that it's been implemented after 3 decades could mean that someone out there is generating pre nerf Myklian amount of silvers.

[Whirlin]

Yes there's a cap now on trading skill, I hit it last week on my Wizard. I was told that it was only on non self found loot but it is in fact on everything self looted or not (I don't know if that's a bug or not). The cap does reset after a week and there are ways around it but the fact that it's been implemented after 3 decades could mean that someone out there is generating pre nerf Myklian amount of silvers.
Is there a notice when you get to trading skill cap? We do a lot of selling, and this was the first I knew about it.

[Winter]

No message at all, I only noticed because I appraised something during a hunt then noticed my trading skill wasn't working when I got back to town, I assisted but the gamehosts and GMs couldn't figure out what was going on. A GM did kindly get back to me after a few days to tell me that there is a weekly cap now on trading skill but he had to be vague with the details and I got the impression that he would get into serious trouble if he revealed too much.

[Mogonis]

How about Simu gets in trouble for implementing a weekly cap and not informing us?

[Neveragain]

No message at all, I only noticed because I appraised something during a hunt then noticed my trading skill wasn't working when I got back to town, I assisted but the gamehosts and GMs couldn't figure out what was going on. A GM did kindly get back to me after a few days to tell me that there is a weekly cap now on trading skill but he had to be vague with the details and I got the impression that he would get into serious trouble if he revealed too much.

I actually applaud SIMU for doing this. They are playing their part in teaching how Socialism works.

[chalion]

JFC... what? Is this more insanity like your failure to understand how insurance DOESN'T cause inflation?

[Whirlin]

I actually applaud SIMU for doing this. They are playing their part in teaching how Socialism works.
Keep that shit to the political folders.

[Tyronebiggums]

Keep that shit to the political folders.

Seconded.

[Whirlin]

Yes there's a cap now on trading skill, I hit it last week on my Wizard. I was told that it was only on non self found loot but it is in fact on everything self looted or not (I don't know if that's a bug or not). The cap does reset after a week and there are ways around it but the fact that it's been implemented after 3 decades could mean that someone out there is generating pre nerf Myklian amount of silvers.
Confirmed on officials, a 1m/week cap. Asking Coase for more details.

Thank you for the information!

[Methais]

This is probably my fault.

If not, then it's someone else's fault.

I guarantee one of these is the case.

[Whirlin]

This is probably my fault.

If not, then it's someone else's fault.

I guarantee one of these is the case.
Considering The Hand of the Arkati sells about 3m in gems on a nightly basis... I'm guessing it's our fault. We've really messed with a LOT of game mechanics.

Although, the problem is that if we know about how the system is in place, I can simply document our actions better, and work within the confines of the systems to maximize benefits for our members. 1m weekly cap? Alright, then instead of 1 person selling 50m worth of gems, we have 5 people selling them. Reduces overall income, but we can still game it pretty well.

[Methais]

Considering The Hand of the Arkati sells about 3m in gems on a nightly basis...

Amateurs!

[Ceyrin]

This is stupid.

I agree with Mogonis, they made a cap and didn't even announce it, and that just makes it stupid and bullshit.

[Methais]

This is stupid.

I agree with Mogonis, they made a cap and didn't even announce it, and that just makes it stupid and bullshit.

^

[Methais]

The change itself isn't as bad as i thought though, and I've concluded that it is indeed Whirlin's fault, since my loot is all self-looted.


Due to some extremely persistent farming over the last few months, we've had to cap the trading bonus to the first 1m silvers of non-self-looted treasure per week. Any loot you personally receive from hunting doesn't count towards this -- just loot that other people have received and being sold by someone else.

Coase

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Game%20Design%20Discussions/Treasure%20System/view/992

[Whirlin]

This is stupid.

I agree with Mogonis, they made a cap and didn't even announce it, and that just makes it stupid and bullshit.

It's also one of those things that likely won't impact the problem. If there's a 1m cap, if we're selling 3m in gems a night with 25% trading bonuses, we can keep a maximum bonus by simply dedicating a second individual as an eligible seller, and try to ensure that one day out of the week, one of the two sellers is also the looter. It's a system that is able to be bypassed through understanding the mechanics.

As far as I can tell, this implementation hurts two key groups: Bards who buy up bulk diamonds/emeralds for purification/sale.
Those that have an astronomical amount of trading, since you'll simply reach the cap earlier each week. The cap should be tied to overall trading skill/ranks.... Although the precedent was set with necro lore and ensorcell energy to have a consistent cap.

[Mogonis]

Whirlin, you do all the looting, so the change doesn't affect you selling the gem haul, right?

It sucks that the Trading skill now has limitations, but the real issue is the lack of communication about it being implemented.

[Whirlin]

The change itself isn't as bad as i thought though, and I've concluded that it is indeed Whirlin's fault, since my loot is all self-looted.

Well, until a few months ago, the concept of capped group hunting was isolated to things like bandits, and occasional warcamping, both of which have relatively minimal loot. Pair that up with these loot boosts that were introduced via the daily login rewards... well... it made an awesome aligning of the stars. But at the same time, Reim isn't free entry, so you can't simply remove all the trash loot and expect everything to be ok, the scrip prices are way too astronomical to make Reim worthwhile without the trash loot.

[Whirlin]

Whirlin, you do all the looting, so the change doesn't affect you selling the gem haul, right?

It sucks that the Trading skill now has limitations, but the real issue is the lack of communication about it being implemented.
Currently, Cigger does the selling, he's an elf based in Illistim with citizenship and about 150 or so trading ranks, so he's seeing about a 35% bonus or so to sales. I also have 50 ranks in trading, and can sell in Icemule for racial bonuses if I plan accordingly for about a 20% bonus... but I'm usually residing over in Illistim as well. As I mentioned though, it's nothing that we can't overcome through improved documentation and planning. May not always be the 35%, but we'll always get SOME bonus.

The problem is that we're SLOWLY dwindling down our cache of loot boosts. We pop about 6 a night, which would require 26 people or so to reach homeostasis on gain/loss (which, we're not that far off from). Pair that though with the fact that it's difficult for melees to be on searching duty due to RT implications, etc... it really doesn't enable everyone to do the job.

[Mogonis]

Eesh! The game is more fun the less math you think about while playing!

[Whirlin]

Eesh! The game is more fun the less math you think about while playing!
Any day you need to open a spreadsheet is a good day.

[Mogonis]

True, but the one I open that isn't for work is the one I use to track the EG items I'm selling.

[Ceyrin]

It's also one of those things that likely won't impact the problem.

This is part of why it's stupid. As you said, it likely won't change anything if you 'work around it'. The only thing it demonstrated is that they're afraid of or frustrated by something and they're willing to implement changes to a system quietly and hope nobody notices -- a very underhanded thing to do.

I doubt any of these changes will impact anything I'm doing or my overall silvers gained on a daily/weekly basis, but maybe it will. Making a change like this needs to account for a lot of different variables.

For instance, I often make gold slabs out of slagged silver coins from my boxes. When I slag a box, what happens to the flag on ALL the treasure about who it was/is associated with? What about the silver slab? What about when I turn it into gold? Something tells me they didn't account for these transmutations of objects as part of the treasure system and will likely still count as 'personal loot', because the object is now 2x removed from the thing I originally looted, and it wasn't even an object to begin with (as coins are not really an item).

[chalion]

I've said it before, I'll say it again, the game NEEDS better silver sinks.
Something like the high-end services but using silvers. More deep forging, cobbling, trade skills that use more silvers for better results.

[m444w]

They should just open enhancive recharging for silvers permanently. Enhancives were supposed to be silver sinks, not arbitrary alt currency sinks except for 1 week a year.

[Ceyrin]

They should just open enhancive recharging for silvers permanently. Enhancives were supposed to be silver sinks, not arbitrary alt currency sinks except for 1 week a year.

To be fair, enhancives were also supposed to suffer attrition -- something the playerbase has taken great pains to avoid, hence the fusion "adjustment".

[Whirlin]

To be fair, enhancives were also supposed to suffer attrition -- something the playerbase has taken great pains to avoid, hence the fusion "adjustment".
Breakage was also supposed to be a thing... Then they realized it as a bad idea.

[Pin]

I've said it before, I'll say it again, the game NEEDS better silver sinks.
Something like the high-end services but using silvers. More deep forging, cobbling, trade skills that use more silvers for better results.

Agreed, or even more frequent merchants who sell worthwhile off the shelf items.

[Ceyrin]

Breakage was also supposed to be a thing... Then they realized it as a bad idea.

The reasons for this are less straightforward than you probably think.

At the end of the day you're right though. My point was that players are going to find a way.

The recent post on the officials of the guy lowering his skill and the game giving him a larger discount just illustrates how bad/hasty a coding job was done here. Which is probably part of why it was done quietly.

[beldannon5]

God forbid they would every discuss anything with us about the game before implementing it. I maynot like games like WOW and others that much but at least my 15 dollars a month still gets me most things. Here I pay 40 a month and they keep taking stuff from us. Events are now simucoin stuff. 1m a week gems and more and more.