WTF? Arrested developement?

[Tsa`ah]

Is there something seriously wrong with adults today or has maturity just dropped through the floor.

It happened with Harry Potter, it's happening with this Series of Unfortunate Events, and if the trend holds true, in a few years it will be another kid/teen book made into movie.

Don't get me wrong, that people are picking up books and reading them is great, but come on already. You're 20-30 something. Those girls and boys you're fantasizing about are teens and pre-teens. There are other, better, books out there.

I'm just sick of hearing yet another idiot rave about how good these books are, how great the movies are, and all the while being oblivious to the numerous authors out there that are on a level so far above these two.

Pick up a classic, pick up something modern, pick up anything else. I'm not saying stop reading these two series, I'm saying broaden your horizons and move out of your child hood bedroom already.

[Trinitis]

Does this mean my love for the Redwall books makes me a bad person? :(

[Nieninque]

You can read the books and even be interested in them without fantasising about the kids that are in them.

[Mistomeer]

All reading doesn't have to be something of substantial merit.
Some people just read for fun. I'm not a Harry Potter fan, and I don't read the Sunday comics, but I don't see a problem with adults that do.
Like you said, at least they're reading, which is quite a feat these days.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Adredrin
Does this mean my love for the Redwall books makes me a bad person? :(

I'm talking about the people who probably have only these books on the "already read" list. Those people who read the first two chapters of The Fellowship of the Ring and never came back because they were confused. The people that pass over Asimov because they can't pronounce the name. The people who don't know Samuel Clemens and Mark Twain are the same person. The people who refuse to read Dickens because it may seem educational.

There are billions of titles out there ... stop fantasizing about kids and pick up something else.

So no Adri ... not you.

[DeV]

Blame it on a repressed childhood.

On the other hand you have kids that have read most of the adult classics by the time their 13.

[Tsa`ah]

I think folks that read Rowling and Snicket are going to get their panties in a bunch.

If you read and only read these books, or have only read a few books other than those written by these two ... this is for you.

There are other books out there ... that are better by every stretch of the imagination.

[Kainen]

Personally I read what I like.. regardless whether it's geared towards a younger audience or not. (The Anita Blake - Vampire Hunter series isn't hehe) And personally I feel that the Harry Potter series while geared mostly towards younger people has stuff to offer adults.

[Sweets]

I enjoy reading the Harry Potter series. I never really thought of myself as a pedophile though. It's a bit of a stretch. I don't fantasize about these characters, I enjoy them in the book.

I do also read "adult" books.........I never really discriminated against what people read. Is porn considered "Adult?" That could be considered arrested development if taken to far.


I'm sorry Tsa'ah...I guess I don't get the rant.

[Edited on 20/12/2004 by Sweets]

I read *alot* and I still think tolkien sucks ass

[peam]

Arrested Development is fucking hilarious.

ILLUSION, MICHAEL! TRICKS ARE SOMETHING A WHORE DOES FOR MONEY.... OR CANDY!

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Adredrin
Does this mean my love for the Redwall books makes me a bad person? :(

I have the entire set.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Adredrin
Does this mean my love for the Redwall books makes me a bad person? :( Mice talking? Two words: Puh. Leez.

My favorite adult book: Kingdom Come (Waid, Ross)

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Adredrin
Does this mean my love for the Redwall books makes me a bad person? :( Mice talking? Two words: Puh. Leez.

My favorite adult book: Kingdom Come (Waid, Ross)

They are awesome books and you can go take your beef wellington self and jump off of a building from such a height as to cause severe pain but not death.

[Eiderfleur]

I dunno, I've read a great many books, a vast majority of Stephen King books, most of the Richard Laymon books, All the Anita Blake books, The Harry Potter Series, are all but a part of some of the books I've enjoyed.

I have also read The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings and hated both, in fact I can probably say the only reason I didn't put the book down when I hated it with such a passion was simply because I refused to let it get the better of me, however reading 50 pages on the description of a hobbit's boots and the laces and the soles of them and the stiching etc etc simply does NOT do it for me.


My favourite book I must say is The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexander Dumas. I would highly recommend this to anyone who wants to attempt to read one of the old classics but doesn't want something too heavy.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Eiderfleur
I have also read The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings and hated both, in fact I can probably say the only reason I didn't put the book down when I hated it with such a passion was simply because I refused to let it get the better of me, however reading 50 pages on the description of a hobbit's boots and the laces and the soles of them and the stiching etc etc simply does NOT do it for me. I always wonder peoples reasons for not liking this masterpiece of a trilogy. I loved reading them. There were parts that went on and on and gave the most intricate details of a detail which I'd imagine would not appeal to most. However, the imagination and depth of characters and plot that went into writing the series is amazing.
The series is definitely not for the lighthearted reader as it has its moments of sheer annoyance in wanting the author to just get on with it.

It's nice to see the reasons why some people don't get into it though.



My favourite book I must say is The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexander Dumas. I would highly recommend this to anyone who wants to attempt to read one of the old classics but doesn't want something too heavy. True. A very good read.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
They are awesome books and you can go take your beef wellington self and jump off of a building from such a height as to cause severe pain but not death. Teeheehee. I read all the way up to Pearls of Lutra. :P

Oh man, I thought Arrested Development was getting back together or something.

Anyway, I was watching the Harry Potter movie the other day and I have to admit that that shit was pretty dope, and I haven't actually read the books. You learn at twice the speed watching T.V. that you do reading books, or at least that's what Master Shake told me.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
Oh man, I thought Arrested Development was getting back together or something.
Glad I wasn't the only one. :cool:

[Sean]

I thought it was about the fox show :( I like that show.

[Fengus]

I can't stand reading books/watching movies where kids are the heros, when pretty much any adult around could easily just kick the kid in the face and end the heroics. I also think it teaches kids an unrealistic world view.


I thought this thread was about the TV show Arrested Development.

[Eiderfleur]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Eiderfleur
I have also read The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings and hated both, in fact I can probably say the only reason I didn't put the book down when I hated it with such a passion was simply because I refused to let it get the better of me, however reading 50 pages on the description of a hobbit's boots and the laces and the soles of them and the stiching etc etc simply does NOT do it for me. I always wonder peoples reasons for not liking this masterpiece of a trilogy. I loved reading them. There were parts that went on and on and gave the most intricate details of a detail which I'd imagine would not appeal to most. However, the imagination and depth of characters and plot that went into writing the series is amazing.
The series is definitely not for the lighthearted reader as it has its moments of sheer annoyance in wanting the author to just get on with it.

It's nice to see the reasons why some people don't get into it though.




As mentioned, it went on and on and on and on and on and on and on. Just I reckon I would have enjoyed it more if there were less descriptions (You can have too much of a good thing). The book would have been about 500 pages instead of over 1,000.

The Count of Monte Cristo was also a 1,000 page book but I guess it was far far more interesting to me than Tolkein, for this reason I would rather gouge my eyes out with hot pokers than read The Symarillion (spelling).

[DeV]

Originally posted by Eiderfleur
I would rather gouge my eyes out with hot pokers than read The Symarillion (spelling). Heh, we agree on that one. If I had to do it to myself again I'd rather read LOTR trilogy over again than read another Tolkien book. The man is a genius but I don't think I could take it again. His attention to detail is maddening.

[CrystalTears]

I'm not much of a reader. I don't really like reading unless it really captivates me enough to want to stick around and read it all, so it doesn't happen often.

Yes I like Harry Potter. Love it actually. Guess what, it's easy for me to read and follow. If that makes me stupid, I don't fucking care. I read what I like. I've also read some Stephen King, Anne Rice and Heinlen. Other than that, everything else makes me want to cry after page 10. On the whole, I don't enjoy reading long novels.

As much as LOTR may be an epic, some people I know that LOVE reading couldn't stand putting up with reading the trilogy because it's just BORING to get to the meat and potatoes of the story. SO many details, so many descriptions, so many scenes and characters... you don't need THAT much information to enjoy a book. My fiance, who reads PHILOSOPHY for pleasure reading just put up with it just to finish it.

If you love other authors, GREAT. Fucking A. But please don't put down others for what they enjoy, as childish or simple as it may be. Some people prefer to read what they enjoy, not just the "classics". That's like saying, "Why are you watching Dude Where's My Car? when Dark Victory is on?" Same fucking, superficial difference. So what.

[Tsa`ah]

See ... wrong people getting their panties in a bunch.

:P

Yes, good books ... not the only books.

If anyone is curious about what kicked off part of my rant ... go look up some fan fiction and check out a few fan sites.

Again, this is but portion of my rant.

[CrystalTears]

I guess I don't understand what the deal is, hon. Yes I do realize that there's a shitload of fan fiction out there for HP. I don't read it because I don't want any of it derailing my feelings on the books themselves. But really, so what?

I guess I don't get why it should matter what people really get into. And yes I kinda took offense to it because I've been getting it all my life. Why read HP when you can read Tolkien? Why see The Santa Clause when you could be watching It's a Wonderful LIfe? Why play a web game with stick figures when you can play RuneScape (that was a bad example cause RuneScape sucks, but you get my drift). OMG let me see, read, do what I like.

I'll probably be reading everything by J. K. Rowling at this point because I can follow what she writes without wanting to put a knife to my temple. To each their own, I suppose.

[Edited on 12/20/2004 by CrystalTears]

[Tsa`ah]

Let's put it this way.

My eldest daughter finished reading TLOTR trilogy, she's read all of the Harry Potters, and we’re not getting her anymore American Girl books until after the holidays .... and she wanted something to read. The wife was busy in her office, and I was busy with things on-line.

She asked if she could read fan-fiction in her room, but that required re-setting parental controls. So I did a search, kind of chuckled at some of the fan sites put up by grown adults ... and then found some rather disturbing fan fiction. We're not talking about bad stories, we're talking pornographic.

Couple that with trying to pick up some books at Borders ... a store full of books ... and having to listen to these two late 20 something guys prattle on with their comparisons between Potter and Unfortunate Events. Guys that will still wonder why they never get sex.

So yes, they are good books, the movies weren’t bad, and there is nothing wrong with enjoying either. There comes a time when you need to expand your horizons past children’s reading.

[CrystalTears]

Okay, you're referring to people's obsessions with characters, actors and fan fiction for children's books. That's different and nothing compared to what you were ranting about in the first place, so you threw me off guard.

And yes, I will agree that I don't understand the obsession. On GreatestJournal and LiveJournal, people create icons for Harry Potter, and it just floors me how many of them are about how hot, gorgeous and sexy these kids are. Counting down the days until they are of legal age?! Good lord, people, get a grip, these are KIDS.

However you still need to focus this on the people, not the material. It's fun material and it captures people's attention, but the people taking an unnatural allure to the kids is their own problem. Better fiction than real eh? :D

There's fan fiction on nearly everything, though. I thought I had no life by playing games all day and getting yelled at daily "no more games!" but that's what I like, that's why they like, so it's not for me to judge, I guess. As long as I don't have to hear about it, which is why I won't read or see any of the fan stuff. Those people scare me.

[Jazuela]

I understand what Tsa'ah is saying. I think I agree, in fact. I've noticed some kids are experiencing books as though they're some really neato new thing that never before existed. I think that's very sad, but it's -also- heartening to know that kids -are- getting into reading.

As for adults reading this stuff and turning it into fantasies, eh. I've heard stranger things. And in fact when I was a kid I used to fantasize about being swept off my feet by Speed Racer (in that way only an 8-year-old can fantasize - nothing sexual since I was oblivious to that at the time).

Gotta ask yourself: Would you rather learn that adults are fantasizing about Hermione, or Rebecca in the bible? People are gonna fantasize about something, nothing is off limits when it comes to the imagination. I'd find it much more disturbing to see fansites of women getting off on Hamlet than on Harry Potter, personally.

[Mistomeer]

Okay, I think that fan fictiion and adults reading books geared towards kids are two different things. I know that just about every bit of fan fiction I've seen on the net comes from someone on AIM saying, "Now here's some fucked up stuff" and usually involves some pedophiliac fantasy about a character in a children's book. A normal adult can read Harry Potter without going out and writing a sexually deviant story about kiddie sex.

[AestheticDeath]

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Eiderfleur
I would rather gouge my eyes out with hot pokers than read The Symarillion (spelling). Heh, we agree on that one. If I had to do it to myself again I'd rather read LOTR trilogy over again than read another Tolkien book. The man is a genius but I don't think I could take it again. His attention to detail is maddening.

Am I the only one confused by that? Tolkien wrote LOTR...

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Why see The Santa Clause when you could be watching It's a Wonderful LIfe? ....

Just. Why? :no:

[Eiderfleur]

Originally posted by AestheticDeath

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Eiderfleur
I would rather gouge my eyes out with hot pokers than read The Symarillion (spelling). Heh, we agree on that one. If I had to do it to myself again I'd rather read LOTR trilogy over again than read another Tolkien book. The man is a genius but I don't think I could take it again. His attention to detail is maddening.

Am I the only one confused by that? Tolkien wrote LOTR...


I guess what DEV means is that instead of reading a different Tolkien book they'd rather read LOTR again.

(As opposed to The Symarrillion or other long and drawn out Tolkien book.)

If it's any consolation I hated the movies as much as I hated the books. Only reason I watched them was because I tortured myself with the book so figured I might as well sit though three hours of kak with each movie.

I think I am biased though because I had such a hate hate relationship with the books I don't think I can ever totally enjoy the movies.

Anyway Bed time it's late and I'm knackered.

[Snapp]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
Oh man, I thought Arrested Development was getting back together or something.

Me too. :( I wish they would.. Dionne Ferris was the shit.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
Oh man, I thought Arrested Development was getting back together or something.

Anyway, I was watching the Harry Potter movie the other day and I have to admit that that shit was pretty dope, and I haven't actually read the books. You learn at twice the speed watching T.V. that you do reading books, or at least that's what Master Shake told me.

Honestly, my main reason for liking the Harry Potter books is easy to explain. She does such a great job of "drawing" a strange and wonderful world. Its no so much the problems and how the kids deal with them, as it is the small things, like Gringots Bank. Or Hogwarts castle (and surrounding.) The world she has designed is very neat, and I enjoy it a lot.

[Nieninque]

And Lord of the Rings isnt a trilogy

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Nieninque
And Lord of the Rings isnt a trilogy

It has 3 books. 3 = tri. Logy means something probably too.

[Eiderfleur]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling

Originally posted by Nieninque
And Lord of the Rings isnt a trilogy

It has 3 books. 3 = tri. Logy means something probably too.


Without getting my copy out I believe Tolkien described it as 6 books. Three main parts divided into two. Hence 6 books.

If i recall. It's been a long time since I read it and do not ever want to pick the book up again.

[Nieninque]

He actually described it as one story and it happened to be in three parts. Last time I read the book I seem to recall the preface talking about how he resented it being called a trilogy.


Development has three E's not four

[DeV]

Originally posted by Nieninque
And Lord of the Rings isnt a trilogy You might be right but that's the way it's sold. Too bad Tolkien didn't want it that way.

Lord of the Rings Trilogy [UNABRIDGED]
by J.R.R. Tolkien (Author)

[Nieninque]

I would go with Tolkein before the publishers and distributors, personally.
The book was written in a number of parts as IIRC he sent each part to his son in the war. The parts fitted together to make one story...Lord of the Rings.
It wasnt written as three books. It was set out in three parts, volumes if you like. Each part makes zero sense without the other two parts. Each requires the other to preceed or succeed them.

Star Wars was a trilogy. Three seperate stories. Interlinked, but can stand alone in their own right. LOTR is one story, split into a number of parts.

Thats how the author wrote it. That's how it is.

[Adhara]

I've read classics. I've read some Kafka, Maupassant, Chaucer, Garcia Marquez, Tolstoi; I've read so many classics from so many different cultures that I can't remember them all. I read the first chapter of the Hobbit and was bored to tears. Second time in my life I put down a book without finishing it (first time was Salinger's Catcher in the Rye). I've also read and enjoyed all the Harry Potter books. I read a lot of adult fantasy. Terry Pratchett and Steven Erikson are my two favorite fantasy authors. To me, all these books bring different things to the table and it is possible to enjoy all styles the same way I enjoy a good sci-fi movie, a historical drama, a stupid comedy or a romantic comedy. Various depths for various tastes and various moods.

I am very glad to hear that reading has gained popularity with Rowling's coming. To me that is excellent news. Perhaps some of the people who started their reading career with Harry Potter will never read anything else but many will, in time. Even those that don't will most likely have gained something if only vocabulary and imaginative development.

I also don't believe that the majority of adults who have read and enjoyed the Harry Potter books are closet pedophiles. Of course some pedophiles read the books and are using them to fantasize about. They'll use anything and everything. Is it sick? Of course. They're sick. What I don't understand is how you suggest to the pedophiles who read Harry Potter to read other books. It sounds like you think the Harry Potter books created pedophiles or at least, that reading other books would cure pedophiles. This can't be what you're saying but I guess I don't see the connection. You say that:

1) People who read Harry Potter should broaden their horizons and read other books of better quality.

And

2) It is wrong for adults to fantasize about book characters that are children/teens.

But are you suggesting that if people did 1) there would be less of 2)? Or are they two unrelated statements?

[DeV]

Originally posted by Nieninque
I would go with Tolkein before the publishers and distributors, personally.
The book was written in a number of parts as IIRC he sent each part to his son in the war. The parts fitted together to make one story...Lord of the Rings.
It wasnt written as three books. It was set out in three parts, volumes if you like. Each part makes zero sense without the other two parts. Each requires the other to preceed or succeed them.

Star Wars was a trilogy. Three seperate stories. Interlinked, but can stand alone in their own right. LOTR is one story, split into a number of parts.

Thats how the author wrote it. That's how it is. It was going to be a duology, the other part being The Silmarillion but it wasn't pratical in terms of publishing and marketability. The decision to consider it in three volumes thus calling it a trilogy was more of a financial/economic decision than a literary one which the publishers did make. I see your point and what the author wanted but I understand why it was better off being marketed the way it is today.

In retrospect the author has it his way in the end because the way he wants his work to be recognized is the way it will be remembered by those who care to know.

[Nieninque]

Note on the Text:

The Lord of the Rings is often erroneously called a trilogy, when in fact it is a single novel, consisting of six books, plus appendices, sometimes published in three volumes.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Nieninque
Note on the Text:

The Lord of the Rings is often erroneously called a trilogy, when in fact it is a single novel, consisting of six books, plus appendices, sometimes published in three volumes. My text doesn't say that but it's ok because I understood you the first time you stated it and have not refuted your point.

The fact remains that it will still be sold as and considered a trilogy by many. I'm not saying your wrong I'm saying that apparently his wishes were not honored. Too bad.