Armor Question

[Pin]

I'm sure this is blasphemous but here we go anyway....

I'm rolling up a TWC Erinthian Warrior swinging dual tachi's (longswords) and kinda envision him wearing scale mail as opposed to something heavier.

Is it viable to wear lighter armor and focus on dodge and pick up evasion mastery (I think this would add 15% dodge) as a CM as well; or am I just being dumb and should get into plate already? I've only ever really played rangers before to any significant level, which is why I'm comfortable in brig.

Thanks in advance

[Enuch]

It's all a matter of what you are comfortable in. As long as you are okay dealing with what comes with wearing that armor you'll be fine. The more protection the more viability. How you want your character always trumps mechanics IMO. Could it be a little harder for you? Sure. But, there is nothing impossible in this game.

Plus if you are in WL then dreavenings greatly improve quality of life.

[Gelston]

So, how about playing a rogue instead? You can play it like a warrior, but be better with dodging, because it is a lot cheaper.

[Stry]

Funny thing about GS is that if you have the Armor Skill, then the heavier armor doesn't really effect you at all. (Other than stealth and casting of course.)

As a TWC specialist, you're defenses against things like ranged weapons and bolts are going to be a lot lower. The extra armor difference is pretty significant at higher levels, which is why you'll even see rogues in full plate at later levels, as silly as that sounds from a RP perspective. You're going to get hit as a TWC warrior, and a big part of that is having the means to absorb those hits.

So, levels below 50, some good brig will probably get you by for the most part, but honestly your ability to actually take a hit will be SO much better as a TWC specialist in later levels that it's hard not to justify the cheap armor cost and get into full plate.

Hate the look? Well.... there's always armor concealers?

Don't like that idea? Then I see you having to spend coin on high enchant and crit/damage padded brig just to survive consistently. Just my opinion there.

[LizardClan1]

Someone once told me 4x full plate is comparable to 8x hauberk.

I wonder how 4x full plate or 4x hauberk compares to brig.

[Gelston]

Someone once told me 4x full plate is comparable to 8x hauberk.

I wonder how 4x full plate or 4x hauberk compares to brig.

I don't really see it as even comparable for a warrior. Full plate is insanely better, from protection to CvA.

[rolfard]

Rolling a warrior in scale is about as appropriate as rolling a monk in scale

[Stry]

Totally agree with rolfard.

Maybe someone can post some examples, but redux aside, the difference between scale and plate is vast. Even hauberk and plate is a huge difference.

Take a 200 endroll hit as an very rough example:
- With no armor, you lose a limb, possibly die, will likely die anyway.
- Leather armor, you're still bleeding stunned or knocked down or critically dead.
- Scale, you're still taking bad damage based on the CvA. 50-70 damage.
-Mail, only marginally better 20-40 damage depending on the CvA
-Plate, 5-20 damage depending on the weapon, possibly only a scratch. (Add your redux here and you're taking less than 10 damage easily.)

[Gnomad]

Funny thing about GS is that if you have the Armor Skill, then the heavier armor doesn't really effect you at all. (Other than stealth and casting of course.)

Heavy armor gives a big hit to dodge DS, not to mention all the other things the armor action penalty affects.

We've been told that on a maneuver roll, full plate + 2x PF < light armor + 1x PF.

[rolfard]

For a single set of sample data (say that three times fast), here's a rogue in stance defensive, empty handed trained 3x dodge 2x fitness/armor/perception

In 10x full plate;

You swing a closed fist at ROGUE!
AS: +40 vs DS: +646 with AvD: -23 + d100 roll: +81 = -548
A clean miss.
Roundtime: 3 sec.


In no armor!

You swing a closed fist at ROGUE!
AS: +48 vs DS: +610 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +19 = -518
A clean miss.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

[Donquix]

dat 50 difference in endroll just from AvD

You're going to have a bad time if you try to play a (near) armorless warrior. CvA alone makes it worth it.

Wear plate, get an armor concealer that looks appropriate for your concept.

[Stry]

Heavy armor gives a big hit to dodge DS, not to mention all the other things the armor action penalty affects.


We've been told that on a maneuver roll, full plate + 2x PF < light armor + 1x PF.


I actually wasn't aware of this. TIL.

So, here's the exact numbers:

Brig 0.94
Full plate 0.83

So, you're looking at 11% less raw DS from dodge ranks based on wearing Fullplate vs. Brig. Kinda.

https://gswiki.play.net/Dodging

See rolfard's post as to why this DS penalty is pretty much just a balancing factor. The CvA difference is significant.


And regarding the maneuver rolls.

https://gswiki.play.net/Standard_maneuver_roll#SMR_v2

Here's the quote:




Sidebox: Armor Penalty

"The armor penalty is a relatively significant factor. For a character exactly trained for full plate at cap, it contributes a penalty a little bit above the difference between 1x and 2x PF. Overtraining in armor to reduce the action penalty and/or using Armored Evasion can reduce the maneuver penalty by a fairly significant amount, however."

- GM Coase


But I think he's talking about SMRv1 in this instance..?

However, in terms of raw damage mitigated, Brig vs Plate isn't even comparable. Plate offers not just Damage Factor reduction, but also Critical Divisor reduction. Meaning you're much less likely to get critically hit by a wide margin in plate, from any kind of damage.

[Gnomad]

CvA is the major issue, yeah. Everything else is doable, but a TWC warrior lacks the spell avoidance of rogues, who will be hiding and might be running Slippery Mind. (Let's not talk about monks and TD/CvA.)

You can make it work, but it'll be a lot more trouble, and you'll be much less capable in swarms.

edit: C'mon folks, the question was "is this viable", not "is this the best build". It's totally viable.

[Jeril]

For a single set of sample data (say that three times fast), here's a rogue in stance defensive, empty handed trained 3x dodge 2x fitness/armor/perception

In 10x full plate;

You swing a closed fist at ROGUE!
AS: +40 vs DS: +646 with AvD: -23 + d100 roll: +81 = -548
A clean miss.
Roundtime: 3 sec.


In no armor!

You swing a closed fist at ROGUE!
AS: +48 vs DS: +610 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +19 = -518
A clean miss.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

This is a poor example because you are using defensive stance, try it again in offensive.