@Wyrom - Idea for underutilized weapon bases.

[Stumplicker]

It's always bugged me that some of the coolest types of weapons are completely underutilized by virtue of being mechanically inferior in every way to other types. In most respects, they make sense to be how they are. In reality, there's no way a quarterstaff should do crushing damage like a maul against platemail. In practice in gemstone though, what that boils down to is that there's no reason for anyone to use a quarterstaff ever. So my idea is this - Allow some of those weapon types special circumstances, making them niche weapons that you have to put some effort into getting good with, but allow them to become good. A rapier for example is generally mechanically inferior, but might be useful to an ambushing rogue aiming for eyes. That's an example of something that already has a niche use, of course.

I think a great way to make some of the weapons situationally viable would be with CMANs. For example:

Quarterstaff - There could be a monk-only, or perhaps monk/warrior CMAN available that would allow the user wielding a quarterstaff things like improved Damage Factor, Improved AvD, Reduced minimum/maximum swing RT, or some combination of all/some of those. I've watched enough Kung Fu movies to know that Monks can crush some skulls with some quarterstaffs, yo.

Whip - Maybe a Ranger-only CMAN that provides various deleterious effects to creatures classified as non-humanoid, or animals in general. Things like flares, calming effects, what have you. There'd have to be some sort of direct damage or damage increase involved for the purposes of mechanics, because whips are just...wow. Yeah, but you get the idea.

I'll leave it at just those two for now, because clearly I haven't got really fleshed out ideas. Just sketching some broad strokes with the two that came first to mind. Obviously there are more weapon types in use by no one that could use a boost.

What I'm trying to convey though mostly is that something like this would give these weapon types a niche use, for someone who really wanted to use them. They wouldn't be able to become overpowered, but they might just be able to be brought up to par with other choices if you build specifically for them. The numbers of course and specifics would have to be tested and worked out by the development team to make it balanced, but that's my idea.

Anyone else have any neat ideas that would work for these or other weapon types to make them fun and usable where they otherwise aren't?

[Wyrom]

This is just my personal thoughts. By no means are these tasks or projects.

I've always wanted weapons to have specific CMAN abilities. We sort of have some like this with weapon spec and certain CMANs getting bonuses with certain weapons. But I mean more refined where each weapon base would get something. But CMANs are tough to come by and train in. So something like a WEAPON verb that unlocked a skill if you're moderately trained in that weapon type in hand.

My Holy Scourge whip's WAVE ability from the auction was what I always wanted for whips.

[Stumplicker]

This is just my personal thoughts. By no means are these tasks or projects.

I've always wanted weapons to have specific CMAN abilities. We sort of have some like this with weapon spec and certain CMANs getting bonuses with certain weapons. But I mean more refined where each weapon base would get something. But CMANs are tough to come by and train in. So something like a WEAPON verb that unlocked a skill if you're moderately trained in that weapon type in hand.

My Holy Scourge whip's WAVE ability from the auction was what I always wanted for whips.

Sure sure. And your whip specifically actually was what got me thinking about underutilized bases in the first place, which I should mention. It was really cool. I found myself thinking that I'd always wanted to use a whip, but hundreds of millions at an auction is a pretty high breakpoint for that want.

That'd be neat. Something like the bonding system folded into a CMAN that people generally already train, like weapon specialization, as you mentioned, that sort of attunes you to a weapon base and gives unique traits based on the weapon type. It'd give people a reason to take it to 5 ranks, too. As it stands, the general consensus I think is that ranks 4 and 5 are too expensive to be worth gettin' for what'cha get out of 'em. Big project, so I'm dreamin' for the moment of course as far as effort vs. payoff is concerned.

But it'd be neat.

[Mogonis]

Yes, weapon skills or weapon base skills! Then let warriors 3x weapons and CM! It's only natural.

[Leafiara]

Specific skills for each weapon base would be cool for sure. Even if that's too big a project, it's stuck out to me that polearms and ranged weapons have their own combat maneuvers (even though the ranged one sucks) and other weapon types don't.

Actually, while I'm at it... why can't every profession learn Shield Bash as a maneuver when they can all learn Trip and Multi-Fire?

[emo hero james]

Weapon skills were an idea I was going to suggest and flesh out on the officials when I finish my big ole list of CM revision suggestions. Neat.

[Gelston]

Whip skills are essential to the character Elanthiana Jones I am trying to make.

[Stumplicker]

Whip skills are essential to the character Elanthiana Jones I am trying to make.

Exactly! There's even an unlockable scripted adventurer gear set already. It only makes sense for the whips to be next! Haha.

[Axhinde]

I love this idea. Weapon types, especially the under utilized ones could have extra effects unlock after wspeccing into them. Whips, flails, "chained" weapons, etc could have a separate "flare" or roll attatched after attacking that give desired effects at each rank of weapon specialization.

For instance, and this idea is very on the spot, after swinging a flail at a critter and let's say you land an arm/hand the flail or whip could then make an attempt to disarm the item on the limb affected. Or attempt to wrap around a critter's leg and trip it. Just a thought.

[sentral]

yeah quarterstaff's are definitely a monk type weapon. How about nunchuck flares! They are held like a normal UAC weapon but add flares everyone once in a while.

[MotleyCrew]

I too would like to see whips become more viable. CMAN's seem a reasonable option. Also, there are A LOT of guilds out there that do NOTHING, so guild skills could be another way to go.

[Stumplicker]

yeah quarterstaff's are definitely a monk type weapon. How about nunchuck flares! They are held like a normal UAC weapon but add flares everyone once in a while.

That'd be neat. I like it. Another thought on that which might be neat would to be to make them sort of katar-like, for a sort of near-to-post cap goal. What I mean is, training both THW and Brawling would allow a quarterstaff to add flares or various effects to the UAC system while held.

[Zarston]

If you want underutilized weapons to come to the surface, the quickest fix is to rebalance the crit tables. Quite a few weapons are passed over because they're slash rather than crush. If you bring slash into line with crush then you're going to start seeing more katanas, greatswords, and battle-axes in place of mauls.

When I was daydreaming over whips before, I thought about using something similar to the bastard sword/katar training requirements, where you would need blunt training and hurling. The whip would then be hurled, taking advantage of the lower DS, without ever leaving your hand. The weapon gets more powerful because its harder to defend against hurled attacks, and while it does make it a "returner" (opening the gates for hurled users, by the ways), it's not a overpowered one because whip DF is still whip DF.

Thrown base weapons (darts, nets, etc) just need to be torn down and built from the ground up.

[loxe]

quarterstaves need to be usable with twc its a long stick you should be able to whack things with both ends

[m444w]

this needs to exist outside of the cman system based on your weapon skill, the same way shields do.

I'd personally like to see it with the diversity of shield system at a minimum and the same sort of interplay between cmans and shield manuevers where applicable (reactive disarm with appropriate weapons for instance), when using certain small weapons, focused mstrikes would have the opportunity to finish with a free coup de grace, or open with a free hamstring, or sunder shield with a ball and chain.

These would all be unlocked based on a WEAPON verb, and with this new SMR system there seem to be even more options than ever.

[Gelston]

Wman system

[Warriorbird]

Wearable quarterstaffs would be neat.

[drauz]

scimitars with the same DF as falchion.

[Malisai]

If such a system is put in place, it should be for underutilized weapons. If you give mauls and lances the same type of advantages, then people will just keep using those.

[Gelston]

If such a system is put in place, it should be for underutilized weapons. If you give mauls and lances the same type of advantages, then people will just keep using those.

Eh, not quite. You can give all weapons certain "wmans", but make everything more flavorful. Perhaps whips or whipblade have a sort of "armor sunder" one, where it is basically ripping pieces of armor off and lowering that areas protection to skin, or something like that. Make everything have situations where it excels.

At the end of the day, some things will be clearly better choices, just as in real life... But I think there are ways to make sucky bases more usable. I've known plenty of people who've wanted to use certain things for RP purposes... But they are just too terrible to be viable.

[drauz]

Eh, not quite. You can give all weapons certain "wmans", but make everything more flavorful. Perhaps whips or whipblade have a sort of "armor sunder" one, where it is basically ripping pieces of armor off and lowering that areas protection to skin, or something like that. Make everything have situations where it excels.

At the end of the day, some things will be clearly better choices, just as in real life... But I think there are ways to make sucky bases more usable. I've known plenty of people who've wanted to use certain things for RP purposes... But they are just too terrible to be viable.

Rapier - riposte ability (non RT counter attack when you parry an attack)

Quarterstaves - Should always "swing" twice for same RT as now