Do you pray?

[Nieninque]

Just curious...

[Latrinsorm]

Every day. :)

[Parkbandit]

If you are referring to praying to a God.. um, I'm an athiest.. so no.

If you are referring to me whispering to myself "Come on, roll an 8" at the craps table.. all the time.

[DeV]

Everyday for various reasons.

[Brattt8525]

No.

[Sweets]

Yes. I often pray.

[Kainen]

Everyday to express my thankfullness for what I have and to ask for strength to face the next day.

People who do not pray are obviously communists.

- Arkans

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Nieninque
Just curious...

I've left a message, but haven't gotten a call back yet.

Jorddyn

[Drew]

Daily

Only when I'm on airplanes, and this frightens me because sometimes I'll mumble the word "God" as if it had some kind of meaning. But I'm an Atheist otherwise.

[Trinitis]

Stan -----> :kick: <------ Me

[Iriscience]

I have never once prayed. However, there are many people who pray to me.

[Hulkein]

Yeah, daily.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Iriscience
I have never once prayed. However, there are many people who pray to me.

You sound like Soulpieced, but for real life.

[SpunGirl]

Not since I was about fifteen. And I can only think of one time, when I was like 13, that it was even sincere. Ugh, don't get me started.

-K

[Artha]

In terms of 'O father who art in heaven...' no.
In terms of 'God I'd really appreciate it if...' often.

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Artha
In terms of 'O father who art in heaven...' no.


I went to a wedding this summer where that was recited, and found I could still remember the whole thing from when I was like, eight, and we were forced to memorize it. I wish I could free up those brain cells for something else. More disk space, plz.

-K

[Artha]

Just go to sleep tonight thinking 'defrag defrag defrag'


I went to a wedding this summer where that was recited, and found I could still remember the whole thing from when I was like, eight, and we were forced to memorize it. I wish I could free up those brain cells for something else. More disk space, plz.

I went to a funeral recently where it was recited a couple times. I remembered it from watching Boondock Saints a whole lot.

[Edited on 12-18-2004 by Artha]

[Alfster]

I never pray

Unless you count on Easter when my parents forced me to join them at church and I had to listen to the prayers...

[Snapp]

I've never prayed with any real belief behind it. When I was little my parents drug me to church every Sunday where we recited prayers that were brain-washed into our heads.

Originally posted by Adredrin
Stan -----> :kick: <------ Me

:no:

[Drew2]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
Only when I'm on airplanes, and this frightens me because sometimes I'll mumble the word "God" as if it had some kind of meaning. But I'm an Atheist otherwise.

This is also me.

Although I use common expressiosn like "God Damn it" or "Jesus christ!" in certain situations.

[Sean]

No

[Edaarin]

Yes. I'm praying right now that I can pass my accounting exam in about an hour and a half.

[Nieninque]

Good luck :)

[Warriorbird]

"I don't pray for forgiveness. I pray for the death of my enemies."
-Marshal Law

[Fallen]

Taking the Lord's name in vain has gotten me in trouble many a time. Once I forgot my roadguard vest in AIT and everyone kept bugging me to go get it. In front of the whole platoon I screamed, "Jesus Fucking God damn Christ, it's just a stupid vest!"

Fun stuff.

[Darnell]

Does it count if it's for bad things to happen to people who piss me off? If so, then yes

D

[Methais]

You mean like "Dear Lord, please make these people drop spoons today."?

[Darnell]

Originally posted by Methais
You mean like "Dear Lord, please make these people drop spoons today."?

You know me too well....it's starting to get scary

D

[Edited on 12-18-2004 by Darnell]

[Chadj]

Nope, never.

[BrainSucky]

I would rather spend my time actually attempting to accomplish something over using it to pray to a deity who may or may not even exist. I'm sure that if said deity did exist, it would appreciate my effort to do it myself, too.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by BrainSucky
I would rather spend my time actually attempting to accomplish something over using it to pray to a deity who may or may not even exist. I'm sure that if said deity did exist, it would appreciate my effort to do it myself, too. The Lord helps those who help themselves. :)

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

The Lord helps those who help themselves. :)
I never figured whether that was an invitation to steal

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by BrainSucky
I would rather spend my time actually attempting to accomplish something over using it to pray to a deity who may or may not even exist. I'm sure that if said deity did exist, it would appreciate my effort to do it myself, too. The Lord helps those who help themselves. :)

So says Ben Franklin.

God tends to help those who can't help themselves.

EDIT: I pray, but not as much as I would like to or should.

[Edited on 12-19-2004 by Nakiro]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Nieninque
I never figured whether that was an invitation to steal If the Lord didn't want it stolen, the Lord would nail it down, hammer/nail-aphobia notwithstanding.

Oh, Ben Frankling said it? It must be wrong. :(

[Sylvan Dreams]

I'm atheist, so I don't pray.

I used to, however. I was raised Catholic. I did the whole shebang -- religion instruction weekly, Sunday mass, baptism, communion, confirmation, etc. I lost the faith along the way of growing up.

[Nieninque]

Poll is more of an even split than I thought it would be.
Figured that as the US was quite religious, there would be a lot more yes's than no's.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Nieninque
Poll is more of an even split than I thought it would be.
Figured that as the US was quite religious, there would be a lot more yes's than no's. The term "vocal minority" comes to mind. :)

[Hulkein]

I agree Nien, I figured it'd be more lopsided as well.

I bet half of the people who selected 'never' have indeed prayed in time of need.

[Sean]

Eh the no options weren't as varied as the yes options. I picked never because it most accurately reflects my feelings towards prayer. Have I ever prayed? Yes. But not since I've been old enough and able to seperate myself from my families relgious upbringing and make the choice for myself.

[HarmNone]

The question was "Do you pray?". It wasn't "Did you pray?", or "Have you ever prayed?". Because of the wording, I took it to ask if I prayed regularly.

[Hulkein]

Well, I figured 'never' means absolutely never (upon being old enough, as Tijay said) considering there are options for 'Hardly ever,' etc.

[4a6c1]

I pray from time to time. Not sure why or to what. I suppose its just human nature to reach out to something greater than ourselves. Even if it is a full of shit notion....or not. Never know.

Also, I think I just like to talk to myself outloud. Yes, I'm sure thats the real reason.

[Stunseed]

< Also, I think I just like to talk to myself outloud. Yes, I'm sure thats the real reason. >

When you answer yourself....then you got a problem. :yes:

[Divinity]

Originally posted by Stunseed
< Also, I think I just like to talk to myself outloud. Yes, I'm sure thats the real reason. >

When you answer yourself....then you got a problem. :yes:

This is how I hear it when I pray. I've done it when I wanted to give thanks, or to ask for help when in need.

When I pray, my mind's voice seems to come back to me and answer my question. I really don't know what to think of it. :?:

[Drew]

Originally posted by Nieninque
Poll is more of an even split than I thought it would be.
Figured that as the US was quite religious, there would be a lot more yes's than no's.


Gemstone players tend to be less religous (or more precisely; less christian) than the general US populous, IMO.

[Fallen]

Gemstone players tend to be less religous (or more precisely; less christian) than the general US populous, IMO. >>

Especially Sorcerers. The unending, torturous wait for spells such as Animate Dead and Demonic Summoning have since stripped us all of any moral, ethical, or religious fiber.

[Miss X]

I pray sometimes but I also think that even if I don't pray, God know's when I need help. I mostly pray for other people, like when I see the pictures of the people in Uganda and stuff like that I ask God to help them rather than me because most of us are doing ok on our own. There are millions of people who simply are not.

[Ben]

Sometimes I break down and pray.

[Brattt8525]

Originally posted by Stunseed
< Also, I think I just like to talk to myself outloud. Yes, I'm sure thats the real reason. >

When you answer yourself....then you got a problem. :yes:

No it is a real problem when you say...HUH? what did you say?

[Methais]

Nieninque, you forgot to add "Yes, but only to <insert Gemstone Arkati here>" so that people like Warclaidhm could participate in the poll too.

[4a6c1]

Originally posted by Brattt8525

Originally posted by Stunseed
< Also, I think I just like to talk to myself outloud. Yes, I'm sure thats the real reason. >

When you answer yourself....then you got a problem. :yes:

No it is a real problem when you say...HUH? what did you say?

LIARS. My mama told me that the more voices in your head the more Jesus loves you.

Wait right here while I go put money in the tray and give the priest a blowjob.

[Edited on 12-19-2004 by JihnasSpirit]

[Fengus]

Originally posted by Darnell

Originally posted by Methais
You mean like "Dear Lord, please make these people drop spoons today."?
You know me too well....it's starting to get scary
D



That's because you two share a brain, and a bed. Please note this is not meant to be an insult, its a beautiful thing when any one finds true love, even you two.

[Darnell]

Originally posted by Fengus

Originally posted by Darnell

Originally posted by Methais
You mean like "Dear Lord, please make these people drop spoons today."?
You know me too well....it's starting to get scary
D



That's because you two share a brain, and a bed. Please note this is not meant to be an insult, its a beautiful thing when any one finds true love, even you two.

That comment really made me stop and think....think about 4th grade when comments like that were tossed around rampantly. Fengus, when I want your opinion on something, I will gladly give it. Until that day comes, go away. Don't you have something better to do like practice your flaming on a mock forum? I mean, you're so good at it, it must be the practice....

D
"The more you speak, the smarter Warclaidm looks."

[Methais]

Hi, this site is all about Fengus, REAL FENGUS. This site is awesome. My name is Robert and I can't stop thinking about Fengus. This guy is lame; and by lame, I mean totally stupid.

Facts:

1. Fengus is a mammal.
2. Fengus flames ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the Fengus is to flip out and flame people.

Weapons and gear: (see bottom)

Testimonial:

Fengus can flame anyone he wants! Fengus flames on threads ALL the time and doesn't even think twice about it. This guy is so crazy and retarded that he flips out ALL the time. I heard that there was this Fengus who was eating at a diner. And when some dude dropped a spoon the Fengus flamed the whole town. My friend Darnell said that he saw a Fengus totally flame some kid just because the kid opened a window.

And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



If you don't believe that Fengus has REAL Ultimate Power you better get a life right now or he will flame your head off!!! It's an easy choice, if you ask me.

Fengus is sooooooooooo retarded that I want to crap my pants. I can't believe it sometimes, but I feel it inside my large intestine. This guy is totally stupid and that's a fact. Fengus is dumb, annoying, generic, weak, and retarded. I can't wait to start flaming class next year. I laugh at Fengus with all of my body (including my pee pee).

Q and A:.

Q: Why is everyone so obsessed about Fengus?

A: Nobody really cares about Fengus, but despite that, Fengus is the ultimate paradox. On the one hand he doesn't give a crap, but on the other hand, Fengus is very dumb and retarded.



Q: I heard that Fengus is always cruel or mean. What's his problem?

A: Whoever told you that is a total liar. Just like other mammals, Fengus can be mean OR totally stupid.



Q: What does Fengus do when he's not flaming or flipping out?

A: Most of his free time is spent drooling, but sometime he masturbates to Chippendale's calendars. (Ask Darnell if you don't believe me.)

WEAPONS AND GEAR:


1. Fengus Keyboard
2. Breakfast.
3. Fengus Outfit
4. This is a picture of Fengus showing off. He's a lot dumber than me and almost done with puberty, which to him, is braggable.


[Edited to say that I've prayed before.]


[Edited on 12-20-2004 by Methais]

[AestheticDeath]

hah, thats awesome Methais

Where did you find the picture of the keyboard?

[Methais]

I don't remember.

I pray often. I have gotten away form asking for help from God though, mine tend to be for others now instead of myself, fate will decide what happens to me.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Dave
I pray often. I have gotten away form asking for help from God though, mine tend to be for others now instead of myself, fate will decide what happens to me.

Not to bash anyone's religion.. but to think that your life is already mapped out and that "when your time comes" has already been pre-determined just completely makes me think of ancient Greek and Roman mythology. Religion, when it's all boiled down.. makes no logical sense to me at all.

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Dave
I pray often. I have gotten away form asking for help from God though, mine tend to be for others now instead of myself, fate will decide what happens to me.

Not to bash anyone's religion.. but to think that your life is already mapped out and that "when your time comes" has already been pre-determined just completely makes me think of ancient Greek and Roman mythology. Religion, when it's all boiled down.. makes no logical sense to me at all.

You are wise beyond your years, PB.

And just as a side note, I could have seriously disrepsected people's beliefs by talking about how I masturbate infront of baptist churches whilest praying to Satan, but I didn't.

But I will!!


First, I find a good Satanic church.

Then then whip it out.

Okay okay! I'll stop!

- Arkans

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Religion, when it's all boiled down.. makes no logical sense to me at all. I'm willing to explain it if you're willing to listen. It's not going to be one of those satisfying explanations, though.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Religion, when it's all boiled down.. makes no logical sense to me at all. I'm willing to explain it if you're willing to listen. It's not going to be one of those satisfying explanations, though.

Satisfying to me or you? By all means.. proceed.

[Latrinsorm]

Religion is a way of communicating morality and history. There really was a Jesus, and he really did and said all those things. This doesn't mean you have to give oddly dressed single gentlemen money. Religion can be used to sedate the masses, repressing nonconformity. A screwdriver can be used as a hammer.

Communication requires two parties; the sender and the receiver.

You know, when I posted that thing before, I had some kind of really gangbuster explanation in my head, and I had some tacos and it went away. :(

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Religion is a way of communicating morality and history. There really was a Jesus, and he really did and said all those things. This doesn't mean you have to give oddly dressed single gentlemen money. Religion can be used to sedate the masses, repressing nonconformity. A screwdriver can be used as a hammer.

Communication requires two parties; the sender and the receiver.

You know, when I posted that thing before, I had some kind of really gangbuster explanation in my head, and I had some tacos and it went away. :(

I'll grant you that I do believe that there was a guy named Jesus Christ back then. What I have a tough time swallowing is that he actually did all the things that are claimed. What I envision is that this guy named Jesus Christ did some things that others could not understand and they believed he must be God's son. I believe that Jesus felt that it was a pretty good gig and went along with it.

Imagine someone like David Blaine, Harry Houdini or David Copperfield living back then and amazing people with their gifts. They would be considered Gods.. or at least children of God. Instead of talking about Christianity today.. we could be talking about Houdinity.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Dave
I pray often. I have gotten away form asking for help from God though, mine tend to be for others now instead of myself, fate will decide what happens to me.

Not to bash anyone's religion.. but to think that your life is already mapped out and that "when your time comes" has already been pre-determined just completely makes me think of ancient Greek and Roman mythology. Religion, when it's all boiled down.. makes no logical sense to me at all.

It also makes no sense if you are praying for "God" to change other people's situations, if you yourself think that your life will be determined by fate.

One would have to see themselves as different to everyone else, for that statement not to be a contradiction in terms,

[Tsa`ah]

The wife prays a few times each week.

"Oh god ... oh god ... yes ... oh god!"

I laugh at your clever jib.

Hoohah.

[DeV]

I imagine if Jesus Christ or someone similiar was walking the earth today and was preaching the gospel and claiming to be the son of God, he would be deemed crazy and sent to the nearest mental hospital never to be heard from again.

[Back]

I don’t pray so much as thank whatever power it is that created this universe that has blessed me with good family, good friends and good times.

When things are going bad I usually blame myself.

I believe in the spirit and the afterlife yet I reject all established notions of religion.

I look forward to my death because I feel that all those pesky questions about the meaning of life and all that will be answered. I’m not in any hurry though! Still got lots of good times left in this vessel.

[Xcalibur]

yes

[Hips]

Never. I gave up that stuff when I was in 8th grade and my mother told me that either I confirmed, or she would ground me. :rolleyes:

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by DeV
I imagine if Jesus Christ or someone similiar was walking the earth today and was preaching the gospel and claiming to be the son of God, he would be deemed crazy and sent to the nearest mental hospital never to be heard from again.

Exactly. Think about all the people who claim they are the next Jesus Christ and how we respond to them. "Yea right, and I'm the Queen of England. Get the hell out of here you cracksmoking freak!"

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Instead of talking about Christianity today.. we could be talking about Houdinity. Which works up until you get to the resurrection of Jesus. Crucifixion isn't something you recover from. That's what the whole "I stab you and water shoots out" is about.
Originally posted by DeV
I imagine if Jesus Christ or someone similiar was walking the earth today and was preaching the gospel and claiming to be the son of God, he would be deemed crazy and sent to the nearest mental hospital never to be heard from again. Good thing he decided to come back then, eh? :)

[DeV]

Yes. He came back yet he was still trying to convince people who did not want to believe.

I think people would treat him in the very same manner he was subjected to back in the day without a second thought if he were to ever make his earthly presense known again or if someone claimed to be Jesus and/or the son of God in this day.

[Back]

The whole Jesus story is intriguing. It is commentary on our still warring and barbaric natures. A man tries to spread a message of world peace, loving thy neighbor and charity. The man gets pummeled. He tries to continue. People really get pissed. He keeps at it. They crucify him.

WTF? When did peace and love become ideals that incite murderous violence in people?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Instead of talking about Christianity today.. we could be talking about Houdinity.

Which works up until you get to the resurrection of Jesus. Crucifixion isn't something you recover from. That's what the whole "I stab you and water shoots out" is about.

That's where we will differ. You believe he died and was resurrected. I believe he died and his grief stricken followers embellished his return.


[Edited on 1-13-2005 by Parkbandit]

[Keller]

Do you ever think that Jesus was just accused of claiming to be God? There is no question he was a sweet reformer and that he had some intelligent ideas. I just don't see him claiming he was God. I think it was something that the Jewish leaders attributed to him so that the Romans would crucify him. Then his disciples ran with it until 35 years later Mark composed a biography from the stories he heard.

Jesus is just way to sweet of a cat to have been that loony.

[Keller]

Originally posted by Backlash
The whole Jesus story is intriguing. It is commentary on our still warring and barbaric natures. A man tries to spread a message of world peace, loving thy neighbor and charity. The man gets pummeled. He tries to continue. People really get pissed. He keeps at it. They crucify him.

WTF? When did peace and love become ideals that incite murderous violence in people?

He condemed the leaders of his society.

There was no "Bill of Rights"

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash
The whole Jesus story is intriguing. It is commentary on our still warring and barbaric natures. A man tries to spread a message of world peace, loving thy neighbor and charity. The man gets pummeled. He tries to continue. People really get pissed. He keeps at it. They crucify him.

WTF? When did peace and love become ideals that incite murderous violence in people?

It wasn't his preaching of peace and charity that got him killed.. it was that he claimed he was God's son and that his followers believed it. That went against the 'common' belief that the Roman Emperors were actual living gods.

[Keller]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Backlash
The whole Jesus story is intriguing. It is commentary on our still warring and barbaric natures. A man tries to spread a message of world peace, loving thy neighbor and charity. The man gets pummeled. He tries to continue. People really get pissed. He keeps at it. They crucify him.

WTF? When did peace and love become ideals that incite murderous violence in people?

It wasn't his preaching of peace and charity that got him killed.. it was that he claimed he was God's son and that his followers believed it. That went against the 'common' belief that the Roman Emperors were actual living gods.

I would like your comment on my post above. I just don't see Jesus as being that loony.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Keller
Do you ever think that Jesus was just accused of claiming to be God? There is no question he was a sweet reformer and that he had some intelligent ideas. I just don't see him claiming he was God. I think it was something that the Jewish leaders attributed to him so that the Romans would crucify him. Then his disciples ran with it until 35 years later Mark composed a biography from the stories he heard.

Jesus is just way to sweet of a cat to have been that loony.

No way to know for sure.. but I believe I remember Jesus acknowledging that he was indeed the Son of God. Someone who has studied the Bible more than I did in my youth may be able to point you to such passages.

[Keller]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Keller
Do you ever think that Jesus was just accused of claiming to be God? There is no question he was a sweet reformer and that he had some intelligent ideas. I just don't see him claiming he was God. I think it was something that the Jewish leaders attributed to him so that the Romans would crucify him. Then his disciples ran with it until 35 years later Mark composed a biography from the stories he heard.

Jesus is just way to sweet of a cat to have been that loony.

No way to know for sure.. but I believe I remember Jesus acknowledging that he was indeed the Son of God. Someone who has studied the Bible more than I did in my youth may be able to point you to such passages.

Seeing that Jesus did not hire a scribe and that the gospels were written 35-70 years after his death, you have to take what he "said" with a grain of salt. From Roman records we do know that he was crucified for heresy. We also know that his biographies, the gospels, are the best indication we have of his life. When you look critically at the ideas contained in the gospels, it looks like he was a vocal reformer who for some reason claimed he was God. Since his reforms were on spot and rational, I get the feeling that he did not truly claim to be God (that whole evolution contradiction). I guess I want to justify it by saying it was a claim attributed to him to get him killed and it just stuck.

[Methais]

Originally posted by DeV
I imagine if Jesus Christ or someone similiar was walking the earth today and was preaching the gospel and claiming to be the son of God, he would be deemed crazy and sent to the nearest mental hospital never to be heard from again.

It happens all the time.

<<I think people would treat him in the very same manner he was subjected to back in the day without a second thought if he were to ever make his earthly presense known again or if someone claimed to be Jesus and/or the son of God in this day.>>

Can't really blame people for being skeptical about such things. However there's an easy fix to that if he were to come around today...

Find a corpse, raise him in front of a bunch of people on TV, go on world tour doing live shows of corpse raising, fly around like Superman, turn a small lake into wine and people will believe it.

If people still try to execute him, he could just use his God powers to make himself invincible (he could sport a keyboard and type IDDQD, making John Carmack shit on himself in the process). Let someone shoot him in the eye with a 44 magnum and then watch everyone ooh and ahh after the bullet bounces right off, leaving no damage to him at all.

That should be enough to convince anybody. If you're gonna claim to be God or God's son or whatever, it's gonna take more than words to prove it.

"Faith" is a copout.

[Edited on 1-13-2005 by Methais]

[Keller]

Originally posted by Methais

That should be enough to convince anybody. If you're gonna claim to be God or God's son or whatever, it's gonna take more than words to prove it.

"Faith" is a copout.

[Edited on 1-13-2005 by Methais]

Or hundreds upon hundreds of years of people saying you did all that shit with no reliable counter-evidence. Then after you get a sizable following you can sell out to the authority, protect each others ass, and sell salvation for a nickle.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Methais
"Faith" is a copout.
Agreed to an extent... just as faith without works is dead. Anything out of the realm of what's considered ordinary on a religious level is sinful and those that question God and the bible are blasphemors who should be shunned yet they teach that Jesus was persecuted for being different and act in the same manner as those who were doing the persecuting.

Park I'll make this quick.
I believe that God is an all knowing being. He knows everything I do before I do it. He has also known the mistakes I have made and will make. Because of his ability to know everything he knows how I am as a person and the decision if i will live my eternal life beside him is already made. Don't assume that this means I do not have free will. I make my choices, though he already knows what they are. I do not fear death as much as some for that reason. When my time comes it will arrive, I will not be able to avoid it. I am where I am in life because it is my fate to be there in a sense. I wish I knew a better word to use than fate, but it is all I can think of to describe it.

That is just how I look at life and what I believe to be true.

[Edited on 1-14-2005 by Dave]

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Dave
I pray often. I have gotten away form asking for help from God though, mine tend to be for others now instead of myself, fate will decide what happens to me.

Not to bash anyone's religion.. but to think that your life is already mapped out and that "when your time comes" has already been pre-determined just completely makes me think of ancient Greek and Roman mythology. Religion, when it's all boiled down.. makes no logical sense to me at all.

It also makes no sense if you are praying for "God" to change other people's situations, if you yourself think that your life will be determined by fate.

One would have to see themselves as different to everyone else, for that statement not to be a contradiction in terms,

Ones care, ones will, ones desire, ones love may bring a helping hand from god in situations.

Again, I look at it as though he always knew what I was going to do and what I was going to ask for, though that is only because I cared enough to ask.

I know some people can not understand why or what I think. All I can say is that it is my belief or Faith that makes me feel the way I do. Some look at it as foolish. They are often people who do not believe that God even exists. I accept others beliefs, and do not try to change them. Nor do I think that what anyone else believes is stupid, or wrong. Faith is faith, you have it or you dont.

[Edited on 1-14-2005 by Dave]

[Jazuela]

I don't pray in any active sense of the term. In more esoteric terminology, I live the prayer rather than reciting it. I figure, god dwells within me, as me, already, so I don't need to ask him things or tell him things. He/she/it is already right there. When I look at the sky and think "nice sunset," god is already acknowledging my appreciation. When I read in the news that some country has just been bombed and a bunch of people are dead, god is already acknowledging my sadness. I don't need to tell him I'm sad, or ask her for a blessing, or thank it for my meal. God already has all that, with every thought I think, every movement I take...

Kinda like that Police song "Every breath you take, I'll be watching you."

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Dave
Park I'll make this quick.
I believe that God is an all knowing being. He knows everything I do before I do it. He has also known the mistakes I have made and will make. Because of his ability to know everything he knows how I am as a person and the decision if i will live my eternal life beside him is already made. Don't assume that this means I do not have free will. I make my choices, though he already knows what they are. I do not fear death as much as some for that reason. When my time comes it will arrive, I will not be able to avoid it. I am where I am in life because it is my fate to be there in a sense. I wish I knew a better word to use than fate, but it is all I can think of to describe it.

That is just how I look at life and what I believe to be true.

[Edited on 1-14-2005 by Dave]

So if it's all been decided way ahead of time, what does it matter what you do? Feel like getting hammered one night and having some casual sex? Go for it. I mean, if God has already made his decision, then he knows that you were going to do that and knows how it will impact your chances, right? If it's all a foregone conclusion, why not just act on all your impulses?

-K

[Edited on 1-14-2005 by SpunGirl]

[Latrinsorm]

What exactly do you mean when you say fate, Dave?

[Killer Kitten]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
Only when I'm on airplanes, and this frightens me because sometimes I'll mumble the word "God" as if it had some kind of meaning. But I'm an Atheist otherwise.

What do they say, there are no athiests in fox holes?
I pray a lot, and I believe in God. One of the wierd things I do is pray for my enemies, that all their dreams come true. For example, I had a boss at my job I truly disliked. I used to pray daily that he'd find the job of his dreams... across the country. He ended up landing a very cushy job in New Orleans.
Prayer does work!

I quill respond in the moringing when im not hammeored

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Dave
Park I'll make this quick.
I believe that God is an all knowing being. He knows everything I do before I do it. He has also known the mistakes I have made and will make. Because of his ability to know everything he knows how I am as a person and the decision if i will live my eternal life beside him is already made. Don't assume that this means I do not have free will. I make my choices, though he already knows what they are. I do not fear death as much as some for that reason. When my time comes it will arrive, I will not be able to avoid it. I am where I am in life because it is my fate to be there in a sense. I wish I knew a better word to use than fate, but it is all I can think of to describe it.

That is just how I look at life and what I believe to be true.

The above contradicts any notion of "free will".

My beliefs are agnostic as a whole. I believe there is a force or god if you will. I just don't believe he's perfect. I tend to agree with the version of god as outlined by the Kabbalist view. God is imperfect. God did not have the power (as it does not exist) to create something out of nothing. Thus the only thing god had to work with was himself. God was perfect, god had to break himself to create. Man is created in god's imperfect image.

We have free will. God does not know the future, god does not have a plan, god leaves man kind to the devises of man kind and will judge each accordingly in the end.

Prayer is just a human means of affirming faith to one's self, not a direct line to "god".

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by Dave
Park I'll make this quick.
I believe that God is an all knowing being. He knows everything I do before I do it. He has also known the mistakes I have made and will make. Because of his ability to know everything he knows how I am as a person and the decision if i will live my eternal life beside him is already made. Don't assume that this means I do not have free will. I make my choices, though he already knows what they are. I do not fear death as much as some for that reason. When my time comes it will arrive, I will not be able to avoid it. I am where I am in life because it is my fate to be there in a sense. I wish I knew a better word to use than fate, but it is all I can think of to describe it.

That is just how I look at life and what I believe to be true.

The above contradicts any notion of "free will".


It depends on how you look at it. We have free will and have the ability to do the right thing or the wrong thing in any situation. The difference is that God already knows the choice we will make. He already knows our (my) path to heaven or hell is already known. I as a human being make my choices, but because God is all powerful and all knowing, he already knows the choice I am to make before hand.

[Wezas]

"I think people attack me because they are fearful that I will then say that you're not equally as patriotic if you're not a religious person," Bush said. "I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think that's just the way it is."

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Dave
It depends on how you look at it.

Certainly, but with objectivity there is only one conclusion to your logic ... non-existence of free will.


We have free will and have the ability to do the right thing or the wrong thing in any situation. The difference is that God already knows the choice we will make.

If god knows this, you can't change it. You have no free will. You are alluding to destiny. If he knows the future and what each of us will do and say, we lack the power or will for change. Our path is bound ... thus we lack the freedom to exist for existence sake.


He already knows our (my) path to heaven or hell is already known. I as a human being make my choices, but because God is all powerful and all knowing, he already knows the choice I am to make before hand.

That sums up destiny, as I said, not free will.

[Fallen]

A quote I recently discovered that I am rather fond of...


"Faith is a device of self-delusion, a sleight of hand done with words and emotions founded on any irrational notion that can be dreamed up. Faith is the attempt to coerce truth to surrender to whim. In simple terms, it is trying to breathe life into a lie by trying to outshine reality with the beauty of wishes. Faith is the refuge of fools, the ignorant, and the deluded, not of thinking, rational men. " - Terry Goodkind

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Fallen
A quote I recently discovered that I am rather fond of...


"Faith is a device of self-delusion, a sleight of hand done with words and emotions founded on any irrational notion that can be dreamed up. Faith is the attempt to coerce truth to surrender to whim. In simple terms, it is trying to breathe life into a lie by trying to outshine reality with the beauty of wishes. Faith is the refuge of fools, the ignorant, and the deluded, not of thinking, rational men. " - Terry Goodkind

Wow.. if I didn't already have a good signature... I'd use this quote. That really sums it all up for me.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I think it's sad myself

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
I think it's sad myself

A slap with the backhand of reality normally is. Personally.. it's rather liberating. I found myself believing in this supreme being that was watching over you ever second.. and found myself questioning it. Who is this "God" guy? Where did he come from? Is he like an alien from a distant galaxy.. and we are like his science project or at the best.. his pets? Statements like "It's God's Will" and "It was his time" gave me the inner willies. The thought that I am a subject of anyone or anything never set well with me.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
If god knows this, you can't change it. You have no free will.I don't see how that works. If God is infinitely powerful (just go with it for a second), then logically God can limit himself, which means God doesn't necessarily force his will upon us, which means that we have free will.

If God is forcing his will on us, then clearly he is not an infinitely good being (on account of how crappy this life gets sometimes), but neither is he an infinitely evil being (on account of how lovely this life gets sometimes). I can't comprehend infinity myself, but once I do, I'll let you know the answer. :)
Originally posted by Parkbandit
A slap with the backhand of reality normally is.I don't see how your faith that there is no God is more realistic than mine that there is. I guess we'll have to wait and see. :hippie:

[Tsa`ah]

If god knows the future, that would indicate a set path. You may think you are choosing what you do and what you say, but if the future is already seen and god knows everything before you do ... no free will.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by LatrinsormOriginally posted by Parkbandit
A slap with the backhand of reality normally is.I don't see how your faith that there is no God is more realistic than mine that there is. I guess we'll have to wait and see. :hippie: [/quote]

You honestly believe that there is this entity that looks over you and takes your life at his desire.. brings hardship to other people at his desire.. that has your life already predetermined.. that stands for all that is good and holy, yet allows things like wars and disease.

I'm sorry.. it's logically flawed and based SOLELY on blind faith.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
I think it's sad myself

A slap with the backhand of reality normally is. Personally.. it's rather liberating. I found myself believing in this supreme being that was watching over you ever second.. and found myself questioning it. Who is this "God" guy? Where did he come from? Is he like an alien from a distant galaxy.. and we are like his science project or at the best.. his pets? Statements like "It's God's Will" and "It was his time" gave me the inner willies. The thought that I am a subject of anyone or anything never set well with me.

I was refering mostly to the quote actually. I think everyone should have faith in something. Maybe not the big GOD, but something. That was all.

[SpunGirl]

I have faith in myself, and the few people I've chosen to put total and complete trust in. The nice thing is that if I let myself down, I can address the problem with myself. If the people I have faith in let me down, I can discuss it with them.

If God lets a faithful worshipper down, you can rant and rave all you want. You'll never get any answers about why you were let down or why something turned out the way it did. This is explained away by most people saying "God works in mysterious ways," "When God closes a door he opens a window," or some other such bit of nonsense bullshit. When a company you've put your trust in fucks up, you expect an explanation from someone. Yet where God is concerned, people are expected to believe that whatever he does is for the greater good, but we're just too much of a bunch of peons to be let in on the cosmic secret.

I think some of the religious folk have the impression that the non-religious lead empty lives. I'll tell you something, I never felt the slightest twinge of something greater than myself sitting in a church listening to some guy babble on. I've felt that way when I've stood on a beach and let waves smash into me, when I've stood on a 200-food cliff on the easternmost edge of Portugal and gazed across the ocean, or when I've borne witness to the amazing compassion and love that can occur between people who don't even know each other.

One of the biggest problems with the teachings of the Christian church is that they expect us to believe that human beings are so imperfect we must look to God to perfect us. It is our humanity that makes us imperfect, yes, but it's also our humanity that makes us great.

-K

[Methais]

<<He already knows our (my) path to heaven or hell is already known.>>

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't it state somewhere in the bible something like "God loves EVERYONE!", where EVERYONE is meant to be taken quite literally? If God truly loves "everyone", why would he send anyone to hell?

Every year in New Orleans at Mardi Gras there's this big section of religious protesters, holding up big signs that say shit like "GOD HATES ALL SINNERS!!!!!11111" or "STOP NOW OR YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!!!!!!1111" and shit like that. Basically their message is "STOP HAVING FUN OR YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!!!11"

This year I'll be handing them goatse flyers and asking them if he's going ot hell too for having a loose anus.

If God exists and really does love everyone, then there is no such thing as hell. To say there is hell is contradictory if you believe God is this all loving being that he's made out to be.

And why do athletes always thank God/Jesus for their victory? And why doesn't the losing side blame God/Jesus for favoring the other team?

I never heard Bill Buckner in '86 say "Jesus made that ground ball go through my legs and blow the world series." Did you? But I'm sure at least one guy on the Mets was like "OMG THANK U JESUS 4 MAKING HIM MISS THAT GROUND BALL AND MAKING US WIN THE WORLD SERIES!!!!!!!!!!!11111"

Boxing especially. "And I'd also like to thank God for giving me the strength to beat the shit out of this skinny Mexican guy."

They say that money is the root of all evil. I say religion is the root. Ever notice how many wars have been fought over religion? Look what's going on today. It all traces back to religion in one way or another.

I think hell is just some made up place that's used as a tool for "You're gonna believe in God, pray, go to church and not do anything pleasurable....OR ELSE!" Basically to scare idiots into following your religion.

If I'm going to follow God, I'm not gonna do it because I'm afraid I'll get sent to hell for an eternity of agony and suffering if I don't. That contradicts pretty much everything.

[Edited on 1-14-2005 by Methais]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Methais
This year I'll be handing them goatse flyers and asking them if he's going ot hell too for having a loose anus.
You sick bastard...

:lol:

[Fallen]

Hell to many Christains simply means eternal separation from god. Not a place of fire and brimstone.

[Methais]

This pretty much sums it up:

http://www.badtasteadvertising.com/afw-annoyed-011303.html

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Methais
If God truly loves "everyone", why would he send anyone to hell? He wouldn't. The real question is would he let anyone go to hell?
And why do athletes always thank God/Jesus for their victory?Duh, jocks are stupid. ;)
Originally posted by Parkbandit
You honestly believe that there is this entity that looks over you and takes your life at his desire.. brings hardship to other people at his desire.. that has your life already predetermined.. that stands for all that is good and holy, yet allows things like wars and disease.The logic for God is no more flawed than the logic for none. I find the idea of God's existence more believable than the contrary, you don't. Are you suggesting that the only logical way to look at the universe is as one devoid of God?

[Back]

To butt in here, I’d like to remind people that in this argument, belief in a universal creator/designer/engineer is not synonymous with belief in any form of established religion.

One can completely believe in God and not need to be constrained by what has already been told to us/established.