Pure Empath questions

[LeftBench]

Hey guys.. I'm currently swinging a weapon during my first 30 days. After those are up I plan on going the Pure spell caster route.

I had a few questions.

1. What spell circle I should focus on, minor or major sprit? When should I switch from one to the next? Or should I be aiming for 3 spells per level?

2. I plan on getting Spell Aiming and MIU so that I can use wands to assist me for when I'm having mana issues. How many ranks of each should I shoot for each level?

3. What type of Lore should I be training in? I have really NO idea on this one.

4. What's a good hunting strategy? I see Bone Shatter looks pretty awesome. Do I use a rune staff or go empty hands? I remember in GSIII having an empty hand was good.

5. What stats are OK to tank when I re-do my stats? STR and CON can be kinda low, right? I'm playing a Giant so they should grow.

Sorry for the noobish questions. I spent a lot of time away from the game and have played a Rogue since coming back, not using any type of magic.

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

[Gnomad]

Hunting strategy: Bone shatter things you can bone shatter. Repeat until dead. Carry a runestaff. They can flare now on attacks, and have more options than weapon flares. (They can give you mana or CS/AS (acuity), for example.)

2x spell aim or don't train it at all. It's not necessary, but an empath without spell aim will be almost completely unable to hunt a number of creatures. (Golems are immune to both Bone Shatter and Wither, for example.)

1x MIU should be more than enough.

There's good spells and junk in both minor and major spirit. If you're using bolt spells, you'll want 211 and 215 for AS, and 111 and 118 to attack with. If not, I'd go with minor spirit first to get 120.

Lots of lore options. I'd say look for 20 ranks of Spirit: Summoning and 15 of Mental: Telepathy to start. Summoning lets you EVOKE 118 to cast it as a web bolt rather than a CS spell, which is a great opening disabling attack. Empaths don't have much in the way of group attack spells, so Telepathy will make 1117, Empathic Link, more useful/reliable.

Manipulation, Blessings, and Transformation lore are all good too, but not as high a priority IMO.

Profession plays a much bigger role in stat growth than race, so low STR will still work against you. https://gswiki.play.net/List_of_statistic_growth_rates#Giantman should help a bit.

[LeftBench]

Hunting strategy: Bone shatter things you can bone shatter. Repeat until dead. Carry a runestaff. They can flare now on attacks, and have more options than weapon flares. (They can give you mana or CS/AS (acuity), for example.)

2x spell aim or don't train it at all. It's not necessary, but an empath without spell aim will be almost completely unable to hunt a number of creatures. (Golems are immune to both Bone Shatter and Wither, for example.)

1x MIU should be more than enough.

There's good spells and junk in both minor and major spirit. If you're using bolt spells, you'll want 211 and 215 for AS, and 111 and 118 to attack with. If not, I'd go with minor spirit first to get 120.

Lots of lore options. I'd say look for 20 ranks of Spirit: Summoning and 15 of Mental: Telepathy to start. Summoning lets you EVOKE 118 to cast it as a web bolt rather than a CS spell, which is a great opening disabling attack. Empaths don't have much in the way of group attack spells, so Telepathy will make 1117, Empathic Link, more useful/reliable.

Manipulation, Blessings, and Transformation lore are all good too, but not as high a priority IMO.

Profession plays a much bigger role in stat growth than race, so low STR will still work against you. https://gswiki.play.net/List_of_statistic_growth_rates#Giantman should help a bit.


Thank you so much, super helpful stuff right here.

How much Harness Power do you suggest I try for?

Thanks!

[Gnomad]

Harness Power is weird and annoying, and there's a bit of a debate about it at low levels.

You get 3 mana per rank up until your ranks equal your level, then 1 mana per rank past that.

Normally, when people talk about "1x"ing a skill, they train it to their level + 1. 1 rank at level 0, 11 ranks at level 10, and so on. With harness power, that means if you are level 20 and are "1x", you'll pay 4 mental points for 3 mana 20 times, then 4 mental points for 1 mana once. If you 2x harness power, you're now paying another 8 mental points for 1 mana.

Some people - myself included, so keep that bias in mind as you read - hate paying that much for so little, and only train to exactly their level in Harness Power - 20 ranks at level 20.

Others say that any extra mana for a caster is welcome at low levels, and recommend 2x-ing it early on to binge on the extra mana, then trailing off once you have enough.

At level 20, 20 ranks would cost 80 mental points and give you 60 mana + base. 42 ranks would cost 252 mental points and give you 82 mana + base.

22 extra mana is 3.667 bone shatters and +3 to your mana regen (off-node). In a 6-minute hunt, that'd be 5 more bone shatters total. If you go COL, that's also more mana from wracking, but I don't think it matters to Voln/Sunfist.

Whether that's worth the extra 172 mental points is up to you. For empaths, it's a bit more appealing, because empath wands are hard to come by.

If your plan is to supplement your mana issues with spell aim, MIU, and wizard wands, then in my opinion the extra ranks probably aren't worth it. And they'll be a bit harder to afford if you're 2x spell aim.

If you're not dead-set on the spell-aim plan, then you'll probably end up putting those points into Harness Power, Lores, or just more spells.

[Maerit]

I just did an Empath leveling binge and went pure around level 25. I also have 2x spell aim, but do not focus on bolt spells as they are much more costly, so I focus on 1106 as my primary method of attack. I'll be bolting a bit later on when it becomes necessary as the hunting grounds become less diverse. Right now, I have plenty of hunting options and can just avoid bothering with creatures that are immune to 1106. I'll have 215 around level 35+, which is when it will really start to count to be able to bolt (mostly for undead). During that time I'll start working on some of the other lores, but summoning is very useful to web bolt as it's least expensive bolt you'll have as an Empath.

The biggest advantage this Empath has is being Master of GoS with 3x in PT. Here's what this looks like at level 31 as a Dwarf empath:



Maximum Stamina Points: 122
Remaining Stamina Points: 122

Stamina gained per pulse: 33


What this means is that I can use Sigil of Power for 25 mana 3x during a hunt (at least) and that extra 75 mana is a massive boon. At the same time, I can heal people for XP easily and just use Sigil of Mending to heal down scars with 3s RT instead of having to spend 25seconds for some of those scars. And, if I wanted to cast after healing or while injured, I can use Sigil of Determination to overcome the scars / injury and allow me to continue casting.

This is what my training looks like at 31 with stats set for Growth:


Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 199 99
Arcane Symbols.....................| 124 32
Magic Item Use.....................| 124 32
Spell Aiming.......................| 164 64
Harness Power......................| 122 31
Spirit Mana Control................| 124 32
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 90 20
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 25 5
First Aid..........................| 126 33
Pickpocketing......................| 5 1

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 8

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 20

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 52


So I bolded the sections of interest that can answer some of your questions. I strongly believe Empaths excel at hunting while using their CS spells from the Empath circle, so spending some TPs to overtrain the Empath circle to a significant degree pays out great dividends.

Pure empaths have major mana problems at early levels. I highly recommend picking a society that will help to alleviate those issues, and mastering it as early as possible.

CoL - stick to 1106 hunting if you go this route because you're going to be sacrificing spirit, and AS will be majorly impacted.
Voln - save gems, and stock up on deeds. You can easily gain 100 mana per hunt at the price of one of the gems you find hunting.
GoS - 3x in PT, and find a couple of small bonus to stamina regen, and you'll have decent access to mana along with 1107 to fix popped muscles if you over-extend your stamina use.

[Gnomad]

GoS - 3x in PT, and find a couple of small bonus to stamina regen, and you'll have decent access to mana along with 1107 to fix popped muscles if you over-extend your stamina use.Yeah, I love 1107, especially since my empath is a swinger. "Oh no, I don't have enough stamina to mstrike back-to-back-to-back-to-back?" *pop* Thanks 1107!

Also, when you get 35 blessing lore, 1107 will restore 50 stamina every 5 minutes. At 65 ranks, it'll fully refill your stamina instead.

Also be careful that you don't overestimate how good stamina regen enhancives will be. 10 stamina regen = +10% stamina regen, not +10 points stamina regen. I made that mistake.

[LeftBench]

This is great stuff. I appreciate the help!

[Prosperanna]

I have to ask, as a fellow pure empath - how did you Master GoS? I can't get past the one-on-one fight.

[Whirlin]

I have to ask, as a fellow pure empath - how did you Master GoS? I can't get past the one-on-one fight.
Ruby Amulet, Outside Spells, Statue, Cube, don't fight, just let the time expire.

[Velfi]

I have to ask, as a fellow pure empath - how did you Master GoS? I can't get past the one-on-one fight.

http://i.imgur.com/ZyKr9nB.png

[jumbodog]

Ruby Amulet, Outside Spells, Statue, Cube, don't fight, just let the time expire.

Yup, this. Just get a set of platemail. Get fully spelled up. You'll fall down, but that doesn't matter. You just need to survive. cure blood until time is up.

[Warriorbird]

There's some tricks that work too.

[Prosperanna]

Aaah gotcha, thank you. :)

[Gnomad]

I have to ask, as a fellow pure empath - how did you Master GoS? I can't get past the one-on-one fight.

117 and my maul, was done in 30 seconds

[Maerit]

I have to ask, as a fellow pure empath - how did you Master GoS? I can't get past the one-on-one fight.

I did GoS at level 5-12. So everything was super easy because of dreavenings and such... The best advice I have for GoS is use gold rings. You can set a gold ring to the carts at Zul, and then when you are in TSC or Solhaven, or Icemule you can just use you gold ring and go immediately to the carts in Zul. The only travel time will be waiting for the carts. This made GoS far more accessible!

[LeftBench]

Ok so my first 30 days are up in 2 days. I switched pure last night just so that I don't forget to do it and get stuck lol. Anyway, I set my stats for growth, level 100. Set my skills to be a pure caster with spell aiming and assistance from wands.

I tried to follow much of the advice given here on this thread. If anyone sees any HUGE mistakes in my training please let me know. I have 2 days to change it. Thanks in advance!!


Name: Huz Race: Giantman Profession: Empath (shown as: Healer)
Gender: Male Age: 0 Expr: 420907 Level: 18
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 85 (32) ... 85 (32)
Constitution (CON): 75 (22) ... 75 (22)
Dexterity (DEX): 88 (14) ... 88 (14)
Agility (AGI): 88 (14) ... 88 (14)
Discipline (DIS): 71 (10) ... 71 (10)
Aura (AUR): 79 (9) ... 79 (9)
Logic (LOG): 71 (5) ... 71 (5)
Intuition (INT): 47 (-1) ... 47 (-1)
Wisdom (WIS): 64 (7) ... 64 (7)
Influence (INF): 71 (15) ... 71 (15)
Mana: 56 Silver: 4,138

Huz (at level 18), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 136 38
Arcane Symbols.....................| 86 19
Magic Item Use.....................| 86 19
Spell Aiming.......................| 140 40
Harness Power......................| 82 18
Mental Mana Control................| 86 19
Spirit Mana Control................| 86 19
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 86 19
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 20 4
Mental Lore - Telepathy............| 70 15
Survival...........................| 86 19
Perception.........................| 30 6
Climbing...........................| 25 5
Swimming...........................| 25 5
First Aid..........................| 86 19

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 3

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 18

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 18
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

158 days remain until the annual FIXSKILLS is to be granted, on 05/20/2017.

You started this migration period on Tuesday, 11/15/2016 at 13:51:17 EST. You have 2 days, 3 hours, 26 minutes remaining in your current 30 day migration period.

You're currently migrating at a rate of .001 skill points per pulse, and have converted 3204.00 training points this migration period.

Current society status:
You are a Master in the Council of Light.

You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Bone Shatter...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a hobgoblin.
You concentrate intently on a hobgoblin, and a pulse of pearlescent energy ripples toward her!
CS: +85 - TD: -23 + CvA: +20 + d100: +2 == +130
Warding failed!
The hobgoblin shudders with moderate convulsions as pearlescent ripples envelop her body.
The hobgoblin is battered for 40 points of damage!
... 25 points of damage!
Strong blow to back!
The hobgoblin crumples to the ground and dies.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.




>inc 111
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Fire Spirit spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a hobgoblin.
You hurl a roaring ball of fire at a hobgoblin!
AS: +189 vs DS: +10 with AvD: +60 + d100 roll: +20 = +259
... and hit for 81 points of damage!
Flames burn hole in chest exposing ribs!
The hobgoblin crumples to the ground and dies.
The roaring ball of fire strikes a hobgoblin, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

[Maerit]

With your current training plan, you really should drop spell aiming for more Empath ranks.

1. You're in COL - which means you'll have to destroy your AS to regain mana during a hunt (-5 spirit = significant loss of bolt AS)
2. You only have 3 ranks in MjS. Without 15 ranks in MjS to get 211 and 215, your bolt AS is going to be pretty weak against like-level targets.
3. You're going to have a hard time warding with 1106 with only 1x in Empath spell ranks.
4. You have an excessive amount of lore geared toward improving Warding spells.

My suggestion is to drop the Spell Aiming, Drop the Summoning Lore (because this is really just for Web Bolt), and make those long-term goals (you can easily get back up to 2x Spell Aim and 20 ranks of Summoning lore by level 40). Pick up as much Empath spell ranks as you can to bolster your CS (until you're level +21, then stop and only 1x from there). Use 1106, but cap it at say 3 casts per target, then finish them off with 1700 to conserve mana - and use Wracking whenever possible.

With this strategy you can also avoid having to rely on Sign of Swords and Sign of Shields (as they cost spirit when they wear off), because you'll not need to leave guarded stance (if you don't want, though early on with a wizard spell up you can pretty much hunt empty-handed in offensive) - and can reserve all of your spirit for wracking.

[LeftBench]

Lots of lore options. I'd say look for 20 ranks of Spirit: Summoning and 15 of Mental: Telepathy to start. Summoning lets you EVOKE 118 to cast it as a web bolt rather than a CS spell, which is a great opening disabling attack. Empaths don't have much in the way of group attack spells, so Telepathy will make 1117, Empathic Link, more useful/reliable.

Manipulation, Blessings, and Transformation lore are all good too, but not as high a priority IMO.
.

Going back tot his. After 20 summoning and 15 telepathy what do you think would be a good thing to focus on? TIA

[LeftBench]

With your current training plan, you really should drop spell aiming for more Empath ranks.

1. You're in COL - which means you'll have to destroy your AS to regain mana during a hunt (-5 spirit = significant loss of bolt AS)
2. You only have 3 ranks in MjS. Without 15 ranks in MjS to get 211 and 215, your bolt AS is going to be pretty weak against like-level targets.
3. You're going to have a hard time warding with 1106 with only 1x in Empath spell ranks.
4. You have an excessive amount of lore geared toward improving Warding spells.

My suggestion is to drop the Spell Aiming, Drop the Summoning Lore (because this is really just for Web Bolt), and make those long-term goals (you can easily get back up to 2x Spell Aim and 20 ranks of Summoning lore by level 40). Pick up as much Empath spell ranks as you can to bolster your CS (until you're level +21, then stop and only 1x from there). Use 1106, but cap it at say 3 casts per target, then finish them off with 1700 to conserve mana - and use Wracking whenever possible.

With this strategy you can also avoid having to rely on Sign of Swords and Sign of Shields (as they cost spirit when they wear off), because you'll not need to leave guarded stance (if you don't want, though early on with a wizard spell up you can pretty much hunt empty-handed in offensive) - and can reserve all of your spirit for wracking.

Mind blown thanks for all this info!!!! Taking a look at it all now

[LeftBench]

Maerit...

I know its against what you just advised BUT... if I had my heart set on keeping spell aiming for the time being... what do you think of my updated skills. I went back and grabbed major spirit for 211 and 215.


Huz (at level 19), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 140 40
Arcane Symbols.....................| 90 20
Magic Item Use.....................| 90 20
Spell Aiming.......................| 142 42
Harness Power......................| 86 19
Mental Mana Control................| 90 20
Spirit Mana Control................| 90 20
Mental Lore - Telepathy............| 50 10
Survival...........................| 86 19
Perception.........................| 30 6
Climbing...........................| 25 5
Swimming...........................| 25 5
First Aid..........................| 86 19

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 15

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 12

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 19-

[Maerit]

Maerit...

I know its against what you just advised BUT... if I had my heart set on keeping spell aiming for the time being... what do you think of my updated skills. I went back and grabbed major spirit for 211 and 215.


It's entirely up to you, as a player. This is all just mechanics chat, but if you envision your empath wielding wands and bolt spells, then that is what should happen! If you're looking to maximize the hunting efficiency, then I would still advise abandoning Spell Aiming in favor of empath spell ranks to raise your CS, and work on raising spell aiming back up to 2x by a specified goal. You're simply not going to find a lot of opportunity "cast" bolt spells at this point, as you'll very quickly run out of mana - and wand reliance means stockpiling wands to hunt with regularly.

There are many empaths who level to cap without ever training a single point in spell aiming, and using CS spells for all their hunting needs. Bolting is almost a luxury for empaths as once you're at the level you can start to reliably use bolt spells, you're also able to start reliably using Wither, which is good against all target types.

[LeftBench]

It's entirely up to you, as a player. This is all just mechanics chat, but if you envision your empath wielding wands and bolt spells, then that is what should happen! If you're looking to maximize the hunting efficiency, then I would still advise abandoning Spell Aiming in favor of empath spell ranks to raise your CS, and work on raising spell aiming back up to 2x by a specified goal. You're simply not going to find a lot of opportunity "cast" bolt spells at this point, as you'll very quickly run out of mana - and wand reliance means stockpiling wands to hunt with regularly.

There are many empaths who level to cap without ever training a single point in spell aiming, and using CS spells for all their hunting needs. Bolting is almost a luxury for empaths as once you're at the level you can start to reliably use bolt spells, you're also able to start reliably using Wither, which is good against all target types.

I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out here. I've re-arranged things again using your advice. I didn't really wanna go the bolt & wand route for roleplay purposes, but more so to make hunting life easier. But from what you're telling me, it doesn't seem like it will help all that much.

Here's the new setup, please let me know if this looks OK when you get a moment. I'm definitely having mana issues but I'm hunting with a warrior so I really only need to hit something with one shatter to learn off it and my warrior finishes them off.

Huz (at level 19), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 140 40
Arcane Symbols.....................| 90 20
Magic Item Use.....................| 90 20
Harness Power......................| 86 19
Spirit Mana Control................| 90 20
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 90 20
Survival...........................| 86 19
Climbing...........................| 25 5
Swimming...........................| 25 5
First Aid..........................| 86 19

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 3

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 9

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 40

Now that I've gotten the 20 summoning lore ranks do you suggest I get something else or just keep dumping points into spells? and now that I have level +21 in empath circle I should just 1x empath right?

[LeftBench]

Lemme throw one more question out there. Now that HP is maxxed can I drop PF to 1x or should I keep it 2x?

[Maerit]

Empaths should always 2x in PF - 3x when possible. It's the greatest defense you'll have against maneuvers. This makes Empaths very durable "tanky" pures compared to the other pures who can only 1x in PF. My last empath I made was a dwarf who was also in GoS, so I 3x'd in PF and it was amazing...

Other lores are useful, but 1x is about all I would recommend and if you want to get 2x in SA by 40, you might not be able to fix 1x lores in your build until that goal is achieved. You'll also want to pump up your spell training to get 120 and 215 at some point, so some of your tertiary "nice to haves" may suffer.

For example, I've never trained Survival on any of my pures early on because it really doesn't do much unless you're constantly hunting in challenging environments (i.e. Icemule with the constant wind damage from the cold). It's a useful skill, just not "essential". Much less for an Empath who has passive healing of minors (1125), and the ability to heal down most injuries until they're scars with sufficient ranks in Empath spells. Even First Aid, which is super cheap and great for skinning, becomes non-essential until you've hit that critical training point where your combat options are fully flushed out.

If your plan is to stick to 1x in lores, ask yourself if you want to be a good healer who can healdown scars without significant RT, or mostly hunting. If healer - then get Transformation lore - if hunting, then start looking at perhaps Telepathy or Manipulation. You'll want to research the various lores and decide which benefits (they are pretty minor early on) impact your playstyle preferences the most.

[LeftBench]

Empaths should always 2x in PF - 3x when possible. It's the greatest defense you'll have against maneuvers. This makes Empaths very durable "tanky" pures compared to the other pures who can only 1x in PF. My last empath I made was a dwarf who was also in GoS, so I 3x'd in PF and it was amazing...

Other lores are useful, but 1x is about all I would recommend and if you want to get 2x in SA by 40, you might not be able to fix 1x lores in your build until that goal is achieved. You'll also want to pump up your spell training to get 120 and 215 at some point, so some of your tertiary "nice to haves" may suffer.

For example, I've never trained Survival on any of my pures early on because it really doesn't do much unless you're constantly hunting in challenging environments (i.e. Icemule with the constant wind damage from the cold). It's a useful skill, just not "essential". Much less for an Empath who has passive healing of minors (1125), and the ability to heal down most injuries until they're scars with sufficient ranks in Empath spells. Even First Aid, which is super cheap and great for skinning, becomes non-essential until you've hit that critical training point where your combat options are fully flushed out.

If your plan is to stick to 1x in lores, ask yourself if you want to be a good healer who can healdown scars without significant RT, or mostly hunting. If healer - then get Transformation lore - if hunting, then start looking at perhaps Telepathy or Manipulation. You'll want to research the various lores and decide which benefits (they are pretty minor early on) impact your playstyle preferences the most.

Your advice is extremely valuable to me. Thank you for the help!!

[LeftBench]

Dumped survival and threw the points towards spells. I was training in it for skinning purposes but I will worry about that later in the game.

[Silvanostar]

you can get rid of AS, MIU, swimming, and your lores for the time being. dump those points into mental mana control and more spells