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Fallen
12-13-2004, 07:54 AM
Taken from the Official Boards.


Setting The Record Straight ·


I'm quite honestly flattered that everyone on these boards refuses to blame me for the delays in the spell and instead heaps it on Simutronics and Warden. Unfortunately, this particular heap of blame is being laid incorrectly. The failure to meet AD deadlines, deadlines that I set (not Simu), is my fault alone.

The process for setting AD deadlines was a bit dissimilar to what usually takes place. Rather than being handed a deadline and being told to meet it, I was asked when I could have the spell done, I responded, and those dates were set as deadlines. Unfortunately, I woefully underestimated the complexity of the spell and the free time that I would have available on several occasions. This is my failing, not Warden's and not Simutronics's.

Some of you have mentioned that I've been pulled for use on other projects that should have been dedicated to Animate Dead. This is not the case, since I began work on the spell, this is the only thing I've worked on in my capacity as a GM.

Some have also stated that I should have had additional coding resources assigned to me for completion of this spell. This is also not the case. Had I asked for coding help I am sure resources would have been allocated to me. I didn't do so, because I don't feel like it would have helped to speed this project up. Animate Dead involves a large amount of code and systems that intertwined with our BCS creatures, our non-BCS creatures and other systems. The intertwining systems are the alchemical processes I've set up, the actual animation, and control. Each system is crucial to the other and it is for this reason that a project like this is best worked on, in my opinion by one coder. Coordinating all these distinct pieces to fit together would have delayed the process because of the immense amount of coordination that would be required and would have likely resulted in problems.

Contrary to popular belief sorcerers have just as many resources dedicated to them as the other professions and systems in the game. At one point sorcerers (and wizards) had more resources allocated to them than other professions in the game. Attrition and turn over has lessened the disparity between sorcerers and other professions that existed when this new design structure was implemented, but sorcerers are certainly not understaffed. If anything they had too many resources allocated relative to other professions and what all of you inevitably see as the slowing of the design processes from where it was say a year ago, is more a normalization rather than a slowing. Could Sorcery use more coding resources? Sure it could, so can any number of systems and professions. Unfortunately, acquiring resources is difficult and something that in and of itself initially slows down design processes (someone needs to train new coding resources).

Some have also complained here about a lack of communication between Simutronics and the players. This too is my fault, the lack of communication was because I failed to communicate sufficiently, not because Simutronics did, partly because of the work I've been doing on the spell. This has been brought to my attention and I aim to rectify this; but the fault is my own.

Simutronics and Warden have been extremely supportive. I was offered coding resources to help bring this spell to conclusion just a few days ago. I turned them down, as once again, I felt this would not get the spell out to you guys faster.

The failings of the spell are entirely my own. The biggest issue, and one that I can't in good conscience blame on anyone else is that I continually and erroneously underestimated design times. Not purposefully, but it hapenned nonetheless, on several occasions.

Some of you may see this as me taking the blame for Simu, it is not. If a project that I'm working on fails to meet a deadline because of Simutronics or one of my superiors, I would be the first one on here posting that it isn't my fault, and that it is Simu's fault. I don't take blame that is not mine to take. In this case it is mine.

On a positive note, the reason I'm spending time posting here is because I've done what I can for the night on the spell and just sent out my latest round of revisions to QC, which has been excellent and timely. I'm now awaiting responses so I can make further revisions based on those responses. I'd like to say it won't be much longer, and it probably won't be, but I won't say that, because I have a bad track record of estimating time lines when it comes to Animate Dead. It'll be out when it finishes QC, and that's it. There aren't any current delays it's just a process that needs to be worked through.

All of you are now sitting and waiting for a fabulous spell. I think you'll all be pleased, I know I am pleased with it. However, fabulous is not synonymous with perfect. I warn you now. When the spell is released, there are going to be kinks. There are going to be a lot of them. This is a given. I'll be here to correct them. When you guys start playing with it and start noticing the kinks, you'll undoubtedly bombard me with complaints like, "I waited six months for this expletive and it doesn't even work right!" I expect that and all I can do is request that you be patient as we use your feedback to work on them. The design of AD is much different than what you all experienced with Minor Summoning. Minor Summoning was designed from the ground up. Animate Dead was retrofitted to existing systems, namely creatures. Animate Dead is much more like Animal Companion than Minor Summoning. When Animal Companion was released it had kinks, lots of them, and they took a while to fix. It probably still has kinks (although I'm just guessing as I don't know much about AC's current state). I think the spell will be enjoyable and fun to use and usable from the start, though, kinks aside. Take that for what you will.

Nilven

"The great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearances as though they were realities and are often more influenced by things that seem than by those that are." -- Machiavelli

theotherjohn
12-13-2004, 08:00 AM
Hopefully this will be the start of a new era of honesty from Simu.

If Simu was also clear and honest such as Nilven in this instance then I and I think many more customers would be more satisfied with the product

Fallen
12-13-2004, 08:05 AM
No no no. This is Nilven being Nilven. You would be a fool to apply his standard to the rest of Simu.

StrayRogue
12-13-2004, 08:15 AM
Agreed. Nilven didn't have to write that.

Mini-Spir
12-13-2004, 08:21 AM
That was an excellent post IMO.

Mistomeer
12-13-2004, 08:29 AM
Delays happen, I think most players understand that.
When a deadline passes and no one says shit is when players start getting upset.
If they would just keep players in the loop, everyone would be much happier.

12-13-2004, 08:34 AM
I respect Nilven's honesty, but this isn't anything new that sorcerer's have heard.

- Arkans

Kuyuk
12-13-2004, 08:37 AM
Nilven rocks for posting that.


K.

Mini-Spir
12-13-2004, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by Mistomeer
Delays happen, I think most players understand that.
When a deadline passes and no one says shit is when players start getting upset.
If they would just keep players in the loop, everyone would be much happier.

I would have to agree with this.. If they would have posted that by Nov 30th than it would have meant more. They need to learn to post before the crowd gets upset rather than after.

12-13-2004, 08:41 AM
It is okay to miss one deadline, but one after another? That is where I draw the line. Honesty is great, the fact remains is that a product was not delivered.

Let's face it, Simu wants to be seen as a business, so we need to put them up to the standard. Imagine if they start throwing around this tired bullshit with their graphics game? Shit, regular MMORPG players are not nearly as forgiving as us Gemstone suckers.

- Arkans

theotherjohn
12-13-2004, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Arkans
Let's face it, Simu wants to be seen as a business

The point I started to have less fun with Gemstone was when I went from feeling like I was playing a game online with friends to the point of feeling I was paying a business to let me play.

12-13-2004, 09:29 AM
Its the nature of the beast, but unfortunately, I don't think that Simu should try to crawl out of its niche. It just cannot compete with the huge names out there.

Let's face it, you are a 14 years old and mommy is going to buy you an MMORPG, but only one.

Are you going to ask to get a copy of Hero's Journey or a copy of World of WarCraft? Which game have you heard of? Which company do you trust more? Some obscure "Simutronics" (holy fucking 80's name) or Blizzard Entertainment?

- Arkans

Kainen
12-13-2004, 09:36 AM
I was excited about animate dead.. and now I am even more excited.. I think Nilven was cool for posting that.

Drew2
12-13-2004, 09:38 AM
IMO, Sorcerers should STFU.

No one is being hurt by the absence of AD.

In fact, I hope Nilven is like OOPS I LOST ALL THE CODE YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT.

That'll teach you.

Oh, and while I'm at it, I hope the coding for Assume Aspect gets lost too so rangers STFU.

12-13-2004, 09:39 AM
Or you could just STFU.

- Arkans

Drew2
12-13-2004, 09:40 AM
I stfu often enough as it is.

Sorcerers (AKA. YOU) don't, however.

Kainen
12-13-2004, 09:40 AM
Tayre you're not being very nice.. not all of us (sorcerers) whine (speaking about myself of course).. personally I am having a blast having my main char a sorcerer.. and I don't really have much to complain about.

12-13-2004, 09:41 AM
Unfortunately, you don't STFU you when it really matters (always).

- Arkans

Drew2
12-13-2004, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by Kainen
Tayre you're not being very nice.. not all of us (sorcerers) whine (speaking about myself of course).. personally I am having a blast having my main char a sorcerer.. and I don't really have much to complain about.

Basically you just supported my point. Sorcerers aren't hurting from it. There's no reason Nilven should have to explain himself to anyone.


Also, Arkans is obviously a very stupid person.

12-13-2004, 09:47 AM
Tayre, stop having the two working braincells in your head from trying jumpstart the third dead one. Seriously, everyone has a reason to gripe of not having profession based specifics not implemented. Not everything in the game is hunt/rest.

So, unfortunatel Tayre, you are wrong and just happen to suck horribly at life. Fuck off.

- Arkans

Suppa Hobbit Mage
12-13-2004, 09:54 AM
All I wanna know is when the fuck will call familiar actually be worth casting. MOFUGGAS

Drew2
12-13-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by Arkans
Tayre, stop having the two working braincells in your head from trying jumpstart the third dead one. Seriously, everyone has a reason to gripe of not having profession based specifics not implemented. Not everything in the game is hunt/rest.

So, unfortunatel Tayre, you are wrong and just happen to suck horribly at life. Fuck off.

- Arkans

(Vagina) - (Sand)^2 = What you need to do * 100

Sean
12-13-2004, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
All I wanna know is when the fuck will call familiar actually be worth casting. MOFUGGAS

Its worth casting. Whenever one of your lame wizards botches a gate using one it provides me with a source of humor.

Drew2
12-13-2004, 09:59 AM
rofl.

Tijay - 1
Wizards - 0

12-13-2004, 10:01 AM
Tayre, when you stop being confused on what you like fucking, you may resume talking. Until then, go back to studying on what anatomy you like best and when you figure out one of the basics about life, then I'm sure you'll be taken seriously.

- Arkans

PS: While you're at it, decide if you like drinking or hate it. Shit, just stop being confused in general and kill the teenage angst, you're too old for that shit.

Drew2
12-13-2004, 10:04 AM
Rofl, jesus christ dude.

Just stop trying. Whatever you're trying to do is failing miserably.

If it makes you feel better, you can have the last word!!! Go ahead. Have it.

Xandalf
12-13-2004, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by Tayre

Basically you just supported my point. Sorcerers aren't hurting from it. There's no reason Nilven should have to explain himself to anyone.


You have competely missed the point. AD was to be released before the end of 2003, and it wasn't. Then it was scheduled BEFORE HSN, and it wasnt. Then it was moved to sometime during HSN, and it was again delayed. Finally it was scheduled for RSN, and again it was delayed.

Simutronics is a business, and when a business tells it's customers they will reiceve something, they should get it.

As the sorcerer who was the in game beta tester for Focused Implosion (thats right, I got it three months before all you suckers did) I understand how much testing is involved in such a complicated spell (AD is far more complicated than FI), but my complaint is that Simutronics shouldn't tell us we'll get it when we won't. I certaintly can't blame Nilven for busting his ass, and I don't. All I really ask for is an accurate estimate of the spells release. Getting your hopes constantly dashed gets quite frustrating after several years.

StrayRogue
12-13-2004, 10:20 AM
Its a double edged sword. Being fourth-right with when something will be released can cause just this problem when it isn't ready on the deadline. However, what people USED to moan about, especially the sorcs, I might add, was how there was never a deadline set. So they were fucked (the GMs) either way in a "damned if you don't, damned if you do" situation.

For the record, I've always found Sorcerer's a whiney bunch, complaining about Nerfs here and there, yet they have never dropped below par on being the most easy profession in the game to hunt, bar none.

DeV
12-13-2004, 10:42 AM
People who whine about how much Sorcerers whine are equally annoying. I play one and have no issues with however long it takes to get AD implemented because in my biased opinion we already have one of the best professions in the game.

However, honesty is always nice when it comes to broken promises.

Drew2
12-13-2004, 10:53 AM
PEOPLE WHO WHINE ABOUT PEOPLE WHO WHINE ABOUT SORCERERS WHO WHINE ARE JUST AS ANNOYING!!!!

Trinitis
12-13-2004, 10:56 AM
I feel the same way DEV. I've never complained about any of the sorcerer spell nerfs. I actually think MD is just as useful as it was before. 719, while annoyingly specific, is still a very good spell vrs the right targets. 705 does its job well, and 712 is by far one of the better new spells IMO.

Sorcerers are still a good, and fun class. As far back as I can remember, I've never posted here or on the officals complaining about how weak sorcerers are.

:shrug:

Makkah
12-13-2004, 10:56 AM
Tayre, I thought you were STFU'ing and letting Arkans get in the last word?


rht

DeV
12-13-2004, 10:57 AM
:rofl: I think you take the cake, Tayre.

Fallen
12-13-2004, 11:01 AM
I would have to agree with this.. If they would have posted that by Nov 30th than it would have meant more. They need to learn to post before the crowd gets upset rather than after.>>

Nilven posted several updates on AD, giving explanations of the spell, and a tentative release schedule. Sorcerers have been well informed. The only mistake Nilven made was misjudging how long it would take for the spell to be polished enough to make it through QC.

Nilven, in my opinion, is one of the better if not the best, GM on the Simu staff.

[Edited on 12-13-2004 by Fallen]

Fallen
12-13-2004, 11:04 AM
719, while annoyingly specific, is still a very good spell vrs the right targets. >>

The recent changes to 719 that made it far more viable were due TO sorcerers complaining about its nerf. The spell is what it is today because we did not settle for the overnerfing.

Drew2
12-13-2004, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Makkah
Tayre, I thought you were STFU'ing and letting Arkans get in the last word?


rht

As in, I'm not arguing with Arkans anymore.

Shouldn't be practicing being black or something?

12-13-2004, 11:06 AM
Shouldn't you be practing being wannabe gay and straight edge?

- Arkans

Adhara
12-13-2004, 11:08 AM
Wow. Nilven instantly gained my respect by breaking the Simutronics omerta. My next thought was "he's going to be fired for being so open and honest, not for being late on AD." I wish there were more GMs like him or I wish Simu encouraged their GMs to be more like this. Many GMs are volunteers and have a full-time job with only limited and unpredictable leftover time for coding. For that reason there will always be delays. But give me someone like that who takes responsibility for their actions (or lack of), someone who says things like they are, in a clear and honest fashion not shrouded in vitriolic attitude and suddenly 90% of my frustration and anger is turned into empathy.

Makkah
12-13-2004, 11:17 AM
<<As in, I'm not arguing with Arkans anymore.

Shouldn't be practicing being black or something? >>

Guess that should be read as:

"No, I like being an annoying troll."

Anytime that I, Rhett, have to say that to someone... it's bad.

rht

Xandalf
12-13-2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Fallen

Nilven posted several updates on AD, giving explanations of the spell, and a tentative release schedule. Sorcerers have been well informed. The only mistake Nilven made was misjudging how long it would take for the spell to be polished enough to make it through QC.

Nilven, in my opinion, is one of the better if not the best, GM on the Simu staff.


Without question, Nilven has gained my respect and admiration over the past few months through his hard work and honesty. I do wish he would post on the forums a bit more, but I'm willing to accept he is awfully busy. As I said, I realize how intensive the testing process is.

That being said, I also agree about DC. After the intial nerf, it rendered nearly useless. I am glad that they reconsidered it.

I only hope that when AD does finally come out, it is a useful and productive spell. I was sorely dissapointed with Minor Summoning.

Fallen
12-13-2004, 11:34 AM
I still cannot believe this thread is as long as it is. There is about 5 on topic replies.

Xandalf
12-13-2004, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Fallen
I still cannot believe this thread is as long as it is. There is about 5 on topic replies.

Let them scratch at each other as they wish. I tend to just ignore it.

Numbers
12-13-2004, 12:02 PM
Nilven's the man for owning up to his mistakes and making this post. How often do you get that from other GM's?

Regardless, I'm still disappointed that he's missed deadlines. I'm also disappointed that he denied help when it was offered to him, but I understand why he did so. What I'm wondering about is why further work couldn't have been done on the long-promised Sorcerer spell improvements by another GM while Nilven was tied up with AD.

The GM's just need to buckle down and get ALL the spell lists for ALL the professions finished before working on stuff that's not a priority to the customers.

Meos
12-13-2004, 12:17 PM
It took some guts to own up like that. I still wonder wheres the long appology letter to the wizard folder, which hasn't seen a GM post except for Emeradin telling us to stay on topic since like, stonefist I think. :/

radamanthys
12-14-2004, 12:22 PM
Ya know. Props to Nilven. And no, we're not desperately needing AD, but alot of our training plans are based around being necromancers. We're desperately waiting to see if AD is worth the disgustting amout of TPs we put into necro lore. Hell, i'm 1.5x in it, and I wanna know if this is going to be worth my time, or if I'm going to rethink my RP. If it's not worth it, it's not worth all the strife my character will go through during the time after. Heck, I have a whole scenario planned- he's a Faendryl Sorcerer, 1.5x in necro. Member of Voln. You do the math. Right now, he only hunts undead, and is more fascinated by how life and conciousness are linked. It'll be an interesting time for some of us, i think. Ever see me sitting in front of Moot hall with a book in my hand? Not many have asked me what I was reading about, i'll tell ya that much.

So I suppose I can say that that's why we're chomping at the bit. It's not just a new toy for some of us. It's a way of our character's lives.

That said, Nilven can take all the damned time he wants to- especially² after that letter to us. all IMHO of course.

(plus Radamanthys is only lvl28 :-p, i gotta get moving)

Letum
12-14-2004, 06:08 PM
(plus Radamanthys is only lvl28 :-p, i gotta get moving)

Thats what I told myself when my sorcerer was 28. Now he's 45. :lol:

TheRoseLady
12-14-2004, 06:20 PM
Wow, that was an excellent post by Nilven.

TheRoseLady
12-14-2004, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by Meos
It took some guts to own up like that. I still wonder wheres the long appology letter to the wizard folder, which hasn't seen a GM post except for Emeradin telling us to stay on topic since like, stonefist I think. :/

Sometimes no news is good news, Meos. I know that having a cleric right now sucks and Uliq shows up often enough in the Cleric folder too bad most of his contributions give a new meaning to a vow of poverty. :lol:

Artha
12-14-2004, 06:26 PM
Nilven instantly gained my respect by breaking the Simutronics omerta.

You instantly gained my respect for using the word omerta.

Fallen
12-14-2004, 06:36 PM
For those of us who dont know....


Main Entry: omer·tą
Pronunciation: o-'mer-tä
Usage: foreign term
Etymology: Italian
: submission : code chiefly among members of the criminal underworld that enjoins private vengeance and the refusal to give information to outsiders (as the police)

Fallen
12-30-2004, 07:38 PM
Continuing updates to the AD release.

----

I wanted to provide you guys with an update. Most of the scripts are through QC with the exception of a couple of scripts that we know have bugs in them. Last week I had a GM AD testing day where I let other GMs knock the stuffing out of my system and try to break it. This was a wildly successful failure. It was a failure because they broke it, many times, but also wildly successful because it let me know what needed fixing. This is preferable to you guys doing that to my system.

Most of those bugs have been fixed now and we are working on a few remaining kinks in the system. After that's done I'll have another GM AD "make Nilven's life hard" testing day to make sure there was nothing missed, make appropriate fixes as needed when they break my system again, and then release it. I don't have a time frame of how long this will take, but it's getting there. Just thought I should keep you guys in the loop.

Nilven

"The great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearances as though they were realities and are often more influenced by things that seem than by those that are." -- Machiavelli