Event Value - Rewards vs. Cost

[macgyver]

Hey guys, now that most of the prizes have gone out I think it's worthwhile to analyze the events, games , and rewards coming from all the festivities.

First, there is a basic poll (everyone loves polls! especially Democrats!) to bluntly state whether or not you think the events were worthwhile.

Second, please explain in detail why you voted the way you did; furthermore, please give some suggestions on what you think can be improved for next year.

Third, which GM NPC did you enjoy the most? why?

Finally which reward/prize did you like the most?

[Ltlprprincess]

Most of the time they are.

This year's EG was medicocre at best for me, and while I did score some decent unlocks and alters, I spent the rest of the week chasing GALDs I couldn't seem to catch to finish off an outfit needed for this weekend. Follow that up with watching my fiance win 9 T5s while I get absolute bubkiss and well, my view is rather tainted. I paid for multiple characters to go this year and didn't log them in for even half the time so I wasted money on the ticket price there, especially considering I only bought the tickets because I thought I had $250 coming to me, which, sadly, didn't. Overall, I've learned that I'm not going to pay for multiple characters on one account to go to an event like this again, because it wasn't worth it. I'm not going to devote time to the games or digging because I've wasted more silvers than it was worth (likely tainted by the fact that I lost 25 mil to a scammer).

I like Binklar. He let me math in his shop. Bazz is always a favorite, too.

[Gelston]

No taco option. Poll is shit.

[macgyver]

Actually the poll is terrible because it doesn't have an option for stark contrasts...but only so many choices. The poll will express more of a average "blend" between both events I suppose.

[Wrathbringer]

Are you Inspire?

[Gelston]

Are you Inspire?

Probably.

Why is it new people always pop in here and try to do polls and all this?

[macgyver]

Curiosity! Sorry been looking at all these polls these days thought I should do one here! There a way to delete the poll? Think the post itself is quite important in terms of relaying feedback to the GMs.

[macgyver]

Most of the time they are.

This year's EG was medicocre at best for me, and while I did score some decent unlocks and alters, I spent the rest of the week chasing GALDs I couldn't seem to catch to finish off an outfit needed for this weekend. Follow that up with watching my fiance win 9 T5s while I get absolute bubkiss and well, my view is rather tainted. I paid for multiple characters to go this year and didn't log them in for even half the time so I wasted money on the ticket price there, especially considering I only bought the tickets because I thought I had $250 coming to me, which, sadly, didn't. Overall, I've learned that I'm not going to pay for multiple characters on one account to go to an event like this again, because it wasn't worth it. I'm not going to devote time to the games or digging because I've wasted more silvers than it was worth (likely tainted by the fact that I lost 25 mil to a scammer).

I like Binklar. He let me math in his shop. Bazz is always a favorite, too.

Didn't do the manor at all?

[Ltlprprincess]

Didn't do the manor at all?

I did. I came away with a doll minus a core and after paying some 15 mil for passes IG so I wouldn't spend my real money, I gave up. I have too many chrism holders to count and no desire to deal with the other loads of stuff I walked away with. DM was meh. EG was eh.

[Donut]

Your poll is missing several options. You have 4 ratings for each event, so there are 16 possible combinations. You only list 10.

For me EG had fantastic value and DM had disappointing value. That's not listed.

[Ltlprprincess]

As an addendum to my earlier post, I won a simucon auction item this year that allowed me to turn into a Wyromling for the majority of merchant weekend. THAT made things a lot of fun, especially when I could gnaw on other people's heads. It had nothing and everything to do with EG, so... I left it out of my considerations.

[Aganii]

I agree with Donut. I had a great time with EG but DM was not acceptable in the least for me. This option should be on the poll.

[blanks]

So I guess it does NOT all go down in the DM?

[Viekn]

EG was terribly disappointing for me. The previous 2 years I was easily able to walk away with 10 or more services, and that doesn't include easy ones like the imbeddable swamp carvings which I never did. That's straight up GALD. This year I walked away with 5. And I easily wasted 500k to a million on raffles. Which I don't care much about since you don't have to enter them, but getting more services would also make that more bearable. I honestly wasted entire mornings either waiting for a GALD merchant to show up and none did or to get picked and hardly ever did. To cap it off, yesterday, the last day of merchant week, hardly any merchant's came around as compared to previous years. At an event with so many shops, you have to figure only 5%, maybe 10%, of goods are going to be appealing to any one person. For a $50 entry fee, I feel like I should have gotten more.

Going forward, I would suggest looking at ways to weight the spinner to favor those in the room who haven't received as many services. In addition, another issue I saw is where I was sitting in a room for over an hour waiting to get spun, someone asked over lnet where the spinning was taking place and I answered, and the minute they walk in the room they got spun. If you could some how have spinners take in to consideration how long someone has already been in a room waiting, that would be nice too. I'm not a coder so I have no idea if any of that is possible, but I'd certainly look in to something that could help address those two issues.

Oh, and DM didn't bother me, because I only used my 5 free entry tickets.

[Xannorath]

EG was terribly disappointing for me. The previous 2 years I was easily able to walk away with 10 or more services, and that doesn't include easy ones like the imbeddable swamp carvings which I never did. That's straight up GALD. This year I walked away with 5. And I easily wasted 500k to a million on raffles. Which I don't care much about since you don't have to enter them, but getting more services would also make that more bearable. I honestly wasted entire mornings either waiting for a GALD merchant to show up and none did or to get picked and hardly ever did. To cap it off, yesterday, the last day of merchant week, hardly any merchant's came around as compared to previous years. At an event with so many shops, you have to figure only 5%, maybe 10%, of goods are going to be appealing to any one person. For a $50 entry fee, I feel like I should have gotten more.

Going forward, I would suggest looking at ways to weight the spinner to favor those in the room who haven't received as many services. In addition, another issue I saw is where I was sitting in a room for over an hour waiting to get spun, someone asked over lnet where the spinning was taking place and I answered, and the minute they walk in the room they got spun. If you could some how have spinners take in to consideration how long someone has already been in a room waiting, that would be nice too. I'm not a coder so I have no idea if any of that is possible, but I'd certainly look in to something that could help address those two issues.

Oh, and DM didn't bother me, because I only used my 5 free entry tickets.

Totally agree with this. I ended up with 7 services, but watched and missed the spinner countless times. The most frustrating was watching two spinners running in the sand room, and having the same people hit on each. Overall, I had a decent experience, but was expecting more.

[Gizmo]

While EG is always hit or miss for me, I tend to walk into it knowing I only go for the games and raffles, and that it can be a gamble. If I can walk away with just as much coin, or more when it's done I'm happy. I did walk away with 2 T5s, that were worth crap, but still managed to also leave with an extra 25mil in my bank. So I'm pleased. This year wasn't amazing for me, but it wasn't horrible either.


Now, DM. Oooh lovely DM. How horrible you were to me. I went into DM expecting kinda similar results to DR, granted I was not around during DR's pendant fiasco, but I should have done some research and looked into that and saved myself the trouble.

I spent WAY too much on DM, enough to never want to do it again or be very skeptical for cash events again except maybe DR. I think I walked away with absolutely nothing of value but maybe a few glue bottles, that I managed to sell along with a few doll heads.

All in all, DM was the worse cash event for me so far. While the event ittself was amazing and such a cool idea, along with the dolls. It left a huge sour taste in my mouth and was not worth it, at all

[macgyver]

DM was a one off thing created specifically for the 60 day free premie returners - almost certain of this. This is somewhat disconcerting as their (Simu's) faith in returnee's actually sticking around is low. I would argue if DM actually paid out with cool unique items rather then various trash and one near impossible to gain toy (the doll) then many returnees would've probably got hooked again; albeit for a short time.

On the otherhand, why DM was so important was even disastrous failure and word of mouth basically damning the whole thing except the first few days, Simu made a killing off DM. Wyrom and co. needs to understand that the F2P cash shop model works; it's not some crazy coincidence that the entire MMO industry has moved in that direction.

As for EG, I thought this event (again from a fresh returnee perspective) was great. It reminded me of the old school Jugg although a bit "Walmartized". I think in the future, games involving more strategy (perhaps PvPish; although not direct combat, quiz/game show or spooky storytelling contests direction) would make the entire affair have far more depth. The one thing I didn't like about EG was this whole "machinery script-dig till yah randomly roll a 100 for a T5" kinda feel. I know there needs to be some kind of dissemination of prizes mechanism in these events but you're kinda short-changing the strengths of a text based MMO (especially with the complexity of Gemstone) if you're just gonna use a RNG to hand out prizes.

Anyhow, my two cents. It was OK, could've been a heckuva lot better.

[Androidpk]

They should have given it a different name cause now there are 2 DM events.

[Elvenlady]

I think in the future, games involving more strategy (perhaps PvPish; although not direct combat, quiz/game show or spooky storytelling contests direction) would make the entire affair have far more depth. The one thing I didn't like about EG was this whole "machinery script-dig till yah randomly roll a 100 for a T5" kinda feel. I know there needs to be some kind of dissemination of prizes mechanism in these events but you're kinda short-changing the strengths of a text based MMO (especially with the complexity of Gemstone) if you're just gonna use a RNG to hand out prizes.

There were a variety of live games during the festival that involved creativity, strategy or simply having fun -- costume contest, storytelling, scavenger hunts and, of course, Ghoul, to name but a few. These all had really nice prices, so it's not all about the script-dig-RNG-win. [Take a look at FESTIVAL 2]

[SashaFierce]

I like EG. It's a fun event.

There are some things I didn't like about this year, mostly that merchants were so unlock heavy and GA thin. I personally don't need to unlock more "stuff". I want to personalize the "stuff" I've already got. So the lack of GA is really my only complaint. There was a lot of L/D happening.

Did I get my money's worth? Yes. But I made a lot of effort to get what I did, I also had two characters at EG.

Top Wins for me:
Custom Spell Prep from the live games.
2 EZScripts from the live games.
Won the uncommon flares raffle.
Won the fusion morphing raffle. (Free enhancive pause for armor is so nice!)
Won a sonic alter.


Just as general information: There were more than 440 people at EG this year - One night we reached a population of almost 800 via who.

They could have done a better job working in tandem. And what I mean by that is, 2-3 merchants show up at the same time, in different locations, all spinning for customers at the same time. It would thin the herd, and spread out the work. They did a better job of doing this type of thing last year. This year, they would trickle in one at a time to offer work, so there were larger crowds at each person because there was nothing else to do.

[Taernath]

There are some things I didn't like about this year, mostly that merchants were so unlock heavy and GA thin. I personally don't need to unlock more "stuff".

There seems to be a trend over the past few years of releasing more and more tiered items that require unlocking.

[Maerit]

I learned an important lesson. Don't EVER go to Binklar's imbedding service. Not only is it a mostly worthless service, but you also get "charged" 3 services for it. So, I got 3x 1701 imbeds and that pushed my services over the limit for all the "5 services or less" merchants that showed up on the last day.

That service should not count for ANYTHING, much be considered getting 3 services... He doesn't offer anything I can't already imbed, or find in common items anyway.

[Donquix]

There seems to be a trend over the past few years of releasing more and more tiered items that require unlocking.

It has gotten way out of hand.

Like look, i'm sorry you just don't need 19 unlock tiers for your non-combat scripted lederhosen. You just don't.

[zennsunni]

Event value is bad anymore, period. Honestly the only events that were ever 'worth' it were the CF ones. For the rest, if you had just saved your $$$ and bought silvers, you could have instead purchased amazing shit. I mean think about it - I've probably spenttttt, I dunno, $400-500 on events total in my Gemstone career? I know that's nothing compared to a lot, but for those people it just gets worse. I think I came away from this with a bunch of alters, some cool fluff scripts, and a pure black ora morning star that Toy kept even though I asked her to keep me online for the raffle and it was won on my main (years ago). What could I have purchased instead? Oh...I dunno...some 8x HCP fusion armor?

The comparison doesn't even need to be made. Pay for events to have fun and get ripped off. If all you want is in-game benefit, save your money and buy silvers. Outlier anecdotes aside, this is a fact.

[Warriorbird]

19 tiers of unlocking for stuff made me have less fun with events/want to go to events less. Similarly I prefer digging and the like when you don't have to go for a whole series of rare parts.

I wasted a ton on Duskruin. Far less on DM.

[Alashir]

It has gotten way out of hand.

Like look, i'm sorry you just don't need 19 unlock tiers for your non-combat scripted lederhosen. You just don't.

This x10. I put a lot of time into gs but it's very difficult finding unlocks. If they want to have this much material that has unlocks there needs to be a streamlined service to unlock it (e.g. Tickets, silvers etc)

[Viekn]

This x10. I put a lot of time into gs but it's very difficult finding unlocks. If they want to have this much material that has unlocks there needs to be a streamlined service to unlock it (e.g. Tickets, silvers etc)

How about Adventure Guild points?! I don't really use enhancives and there's nothing in the AG shop I need. Allow me to spend points on unlocking my gear.

[Gelston]

Yeah, the unlocking tiers are dumb. There should be a max of like two with a third being auction quality. I'm glad that when I go shopping on Amazon the stuff I buy is all fully unlocked. It'd suck to buy an XBox on there and then have to get it unlocked to tier 2 to turn it on, tier 3 to insert a game into it, tier 4 to get the controller, tier 5 to have sound, and auction quality to be able to have arkati based flares.

[drauz]

Yeah, the unlocking tiers are dumb. There should be a max of like two with a third being auction quality. I'm glad that when I go shopping on Amazon the stuff I buy is all fully unlocked. It'd suck to buy an XBox on there and then have to get it unlocked to tier 2 to insert a game into it.

XBox Live

[Gelston]

XBox Live

I edited and added more okay? I also don't have xbox live.

[drauz]

The unlock thing has gotten out of hand. I get it for combat related services but a satchel that opens a special way? If it has to be done, should be one unlock and a second if it does something truly special.

I had terrible luck at the spinners and Binklar's "3 services" I got once put me over this 5 limit for the merchants towards the end. I agree I won't be going to him again.

[Gelston]

I wonder if this huge unlocking thing came about because no one wants to create all new scripts as often, they just kinda want to stretch things out as much as they can.

[Tylec]

I don't chase a ton of merchant type stuff, so that's likely where I get my value rating from (lower expectations). That said, at the end of the day even if you don't get a single item worked or, on win a single raffle, you get a 3x/day self-charger in running the Necropolis. That alone more than covers the 5m/$50 entry. With that said, this is the last year of the Necropolis, so services are going to need to be on par next year, or there will likely need to be something that provides a base-line value to the event to make it worth my while.

[Viekn]

That said, at the end of the day even if you don't get a single item worked or, on win a single raffle, you get a 3x/day self-charger in running the Necropolis. That alone more than covers the 5m/$50 entry.

Compared to the silver cost of a 3x/day self-charger, yes. But if that's not the reason I or others go to EG, then no, it doesn't cover the cost.

[Allereli]

Seems I did better than most. I got 50 services total between two characters (none of them being spell imbedding or a major, but many of them being cobbling punch unlocking), 11 alterations that you'll all see next month, a hedgehog, 2 script swaps, 3 T5s from digging (nothing special), a bunch of things lightened.

Purchased add Ithzir to armor, an additional script swap, and the scroll cutter.

For the most part, I did not wait in rooms for hour upon hour to see if a merchant would spin again, or wait in the back of the line for room order. I especially did not wait in rooms where they spun 1 at a time (except Bazz).

[crb]

Seems I did better than most. I got 50 services total between two characters (none of them being spell imbedding or a major, but many of them being cobbling punch unlocking), 11 alterations that you'll all see next month, a hedgehog, 2 script swaps, 3 T5s from digging (nothing special), a bunch of things lightened.

Purchased add Ithzir to armor, an additional script swap, and the scroll cutter.

For the most part, I did not wait in rooms for hour upon hour to see if a merchant would spin again, or wait in the back of the line for room order. I especially did not wait in rooms where they spun 1 at a time (except Bazz).

ya you killed it.

I got 13 services with 3 accounts. No t5s, no raffles.

[Viekn]

Seems I did better than most. I got 50 services total between two characters (none of them being spell imbedding or a major, but many of them being cobbling punch unlocking), 11 alterations that you'll all see next month, a hedgehog, 2 script swaps, 3 T5s from digging (nothing special), a bunch of things lightened.

Purchased add Ithzir to armor, an additional script swap, and the scroll cutter.

For the most part, I did not wait in rooms for hour upon hour to see if a merchant would spin again, or wait in the back of the line for room order. I especially did not wait in rooms where they spun 1 at a time (except Bazz).

And that's great. I never feel anyone should have gotten less than what they did. But provided you put in a certain amount of time, there should be some expected minimum. If that minimum is 5, like it almost seems to be for EG because on the last day they really only apparently provide services with those with less than 5, then give that expectation to players when they purchase. If you had told me before I purchased I was only going to get 5 services, I wouldn't have purchased the ticket. That may not apply to everyone though. For others, because of what they do or what they expect, they might get less than 5 and feel like it was still worth it. But based on previous EG's, I don't think anyone can argue that there was less GALD this year, and expectations were higher based on previous years. If there was a specific change made to allow for more unlocks this year at the expense of GALD, that should have been mentioned.

[Xannorath]

Another frustrating thing is that this felt like the "rich get richer" on big ticket items. Seemed like big name post cap players hit on much more than others.

[Luntz]

Just gonna say I balled the fuck out this year and leave it at that. Sorry for those who weren't so lucky. Last year I spent the cash for two tickets so $80, got no raffle wins and hardly any services just fairly usual gald, three crappy to ok T5s I barely got 8mil when I spent 15mil on midway, so it's not always good times.

[SashaFierce]

Another frustrating thing is that this felt like the "rich get richer" on big ticket items. Seemed like big name post cap players hit on much more than others.

I didn't see that from my perspective. I saw almost the complete opposite, there were a large variety of winners. I enjoy that, because it spreads out the wealth. People who won something nice that they don't want, can sell it and then buy something that they do want. It keeps the economy moving.

Luntz won some big ticket items, but I saw him playing a LOT. If you put in the time, you deserve the reward.

[Winter]

From a financial stand point I can see why the event cost $50 given the amount of man hours that has to go into it, however the time commitment required to get the most out of it (mainly the queuing and round times) is insane and needs to be looked at.

I took a week off because I promised myself if I was going to do Ebons I was going to do it properly. I normally use Gemstone as a distraction while I'm working (I suspect this is what alot of the community uses GS for), 15 minutes hunting then I'll spend an 45min to an hour in the inn AFK while I work, it helps break up the day especially this time of the year when I need to be outdoors when the weather is so crap.

Spending this amount of time infront of a screen mixing with the community was a real eye opener for a plethora of different reasons. First of all I'm gobsmacked at the amount of effort some of you went to help other players who were new to Ebons I for one would have be lost without alot of you. Secondly it helped to squash a fair amount negative perceptions I had about the community and to be 100% honest Americans in general. Yes I know it's rediculous to judge an entire country based on a small community of people and the shenanigans on this board but this week I felt like David Attenborough surreptitiously observing a newly found tribe. A few of you did behave like lunatics at the major raffles which at the time I did find shocking but this was definately overshowded by the positive way players were treating each other.


Overall I found it a fairly unique experience that I definitely will not be repeating but that's mainly down to the time committment. I could equate Ebons to looking after young children or barely weaned puppy, it's left me with a borked sleeping pattern and a feeling of complete exhaustion!

[Kembal]

I didn't go to EG or try DM, but I'll echo what's been said: EG is worth the value if you can spend the time. This year, I knew I was tied up for most of merchant weekend, and I've been working pretty late on the weekdays, so not much time there either, so I didn't see value in spending $50. Had the price been lower, might've considered it just so I could get the final upgrade on the ether at the Necropolis - that's pretty much all I would have had time for.

[Ltlprprincess]

I'm amending my original post. My fiance made it possible for me to get ahold of an item I've been trying to get all week. He's made my EG complete for mgs and this is why I love him.

[Robotnik]

I would say that EG had a fantastic value but I never really got around to completely trying out Delirium Manor(Just used my 5 run voucher) so I wouldn't really be able to comment on that.

[Velfi]

This poll has neither 'did not attend' nor 'tacos'.

http://i.imgur.com/7Ujqcph.gif

[macgyver]

Poll options max should be extended to 20; this game can be quite complicated.

[Warriorbird]

I'm amending my original post. My fiance made it possible for me to get ahold of an item I've been trying to get all week. He's made my EG complete for mgs and this is why I love him.

Good people do tend to improve events.

[Donquix]

I wonder if this huge unlocking thing came about because no one wants to create all new scripts as often, they just kinda want to stretch things out as much as they can.

eh...i think it was one of those things where it was just like "this worked out well, and it's generally a quick service we can churn out", i just think for non-combat and most "fluff" things it's stupid. just sell it off the shelf, who gives a shit? Like oh no! you can just BUY fancy boots that make you do a cool RP action? EVERYBODY PANIC.

I think adventurewear is a good example, it should have 1 unlock. the feature concealing. everything else should just be off the shelf.

the specific item unlocking is usually pretty easy easy to get, and once the item gets added to the xerria list even easier. so at the end of the day it just becomes a waste of time.

Then there's the similar argument for the mechanically unlockable things that have like 9 skill trees with 10 levels each and it's like holy fuck dude...stop. I think the model for iasha, voln armor, etc. where it has a few tiers is cool and accomplishes (assuming they actually you know...regularly have merchants doing it. looking at you voln armor post-release) what they intended. Then it just goes off the rails on some items and becomes the Path of Exile skill tree which just doesn't work, like at all, with the distribution model gemstone uses for them. (i.e. shocklances, ithzir, etc.)

[macgyver]

Next year's EG should have a haunted house; where we all get locked inside and have to stay alive against one super critter (controlled by a GM) who can turn invisible, can use the secret passages throughout the house, and attack from hiding. And all female characters would need to be in skimpy bikinis to enter the house, 10x w/ heavy padding of course.

[Wyrom]

DM was a one off thing created specifically for the 60 day free premie returners - almost certain of this. This is somewhat disconcerting as their (Simu's) faith in returnee's actually sticking around is low. I would argue if DM actually paid out with cool unique items rather then various trash and one near impossible to gain toy (the doll) then many returnees would've probably got hooked again; albeit for a short time.

On the otherhand, why DM was so important was even disastrous failure and word of mouth basically damning the whole thing except the first few days, Simu made a killing off DM. Wyrom and co. needs to understand that the F2P cash shop model works; it's not some crazy coincidence that the entire MMO industry has moved in that direction.

As for EG, I thought this event (again from a fresh returnee perspective) was great. It reminded me of the old school Jugg although a bit "Walmartized". I think in the future, games involving more strategy (perhaps PvPish; although not direct combat, quiz/game show or spooky storytelling contests direction) would make the entire affair have far more depth. The one thing I didn't like about EG was this whole "machinery script-dig till yah randomly roll a 100 for a T5" kinda feel. I know there needs to be some kind of dissemination of prizes mechanism in these events but you're kinda short-changing the strengths of a text based MMO (especially with the complexity of Gemstone) if you're just gonna use a RNG to hand out prizes.

Anyhow, my two cents. It was OK, could've been a heckuva lot better.

I really don't know where you pull your info from.

[OldSkool]

I did not feel like I got much value out of this event. This is not my first pay event, though it was my first EG, and I would say overall I was very disappointed. Now, let me qualify that: I felt like there were alot of merchants. That is a good thing. I avoided many of them, because they were for services I wouldn't need - unlocks on things I don't own, etc. I managed a couple GALD, so that was cool.

The items for sale underwhelmed. From what chatter I've seen on this topic, it appears to be a fairly prevalent opinion.

I was mainly concerned with visiting the fusion shaman, as my work schedule really curtailed the things I could attend - I missed almost all of the games, but I did get a lot of digging done. The one game I tried to make actually drew its contestants a couple minutes earlier than announced, so that definitely irked me. (I know I was not the only one...some of you were quite vocal) The T4 Voln armor auction, the one thing I was intensely interested in, went off (unfortunately for me) at a time when I couldn't attend (the ONE day I couldn't possibly), so that disappointed a lot.

In any event, I was lured by the things I've read of EG past, and this doesn't appear to have stacked up to the expectations that gave me.

Would I take it back? No. You assume a certain risk at pay events, and despite the headaches this game gives me at times, I'm happy to contribute to it - I don't think I got much for my 50 bucks, but you win some, you lose some.

[Velfi]

I really don't know where you pull your info from.

Intrepid Elanthian investigative journalism.

[Warriorbird]

Intrepid Elanthian investigative journalism.

Can you make the words in this post spell out I N S P I R E? Purely for the A E S T H E T I C.

[Allereli]

wow, in over 12 years, OldSkool only has 99 posts. That's amazing.

[Velfi]

Can you make the words in this post spell out I N S P I R E? Purely for the A E S T H E T I C.

http://i.imgur.com/hVxwI54.gif

[OldSkool]

wow, in over 12 years, OldSkool only has 99 posts. That's amazing.

I tend to avoid the drama. ;) It's even worse when you realize that I've lurked here since the inception of it. It took a long time for me to get signed up.

[Allereli]

I tend to avoid the drama. ;) It's even worse when you realize that I've lurked here since the inception of it. It took a long time for me to get signed up.

Senior Member, congrats! :D

[Velfi]

Senior Member, congrats! :D

http://i.imgur.com/6orTBiT.gif

[OldSkool]

Senior Member, congrats! :D

rofl. Thanks! :D

[Thondalar]

FIRST: I voted EG fantastic/DM acceptable.

SECOND: I'll break this down for the two:

EG: Always fantastic. I did really well this year, but there have been several years I've done terrible...I still go back every year. I haven't missed an EG in...about 10 years. A couple years all I got was some GALD...some years, like this one, I got a TON of stuff.
If for nothing else, I'll always pay for EG just for the live games and GM interactions. Sure, you might spend a bunch of silvers/dollars 50 runs at a time at other events and walk away with one nice item, but its all scripted and boring. EG is fun. GHOUL is fun, and I still play several times every year, even though I've never won. The live games are fun, and it was pretty funny when the Bartender won a drinking game. Having Lylia blow my hand off so Japh could preserve it and add it to Goblyn's collection was fun. Trying to get Kyrinthe to attach some elf scalps to my weapon was fun.
I feel like a lot of the "newer" players, ones who have only done the scripted events like DR, came into EG under false pretenses, and this set them up for a bad experience. YES EG is sitting in lines. YES EG is sitting in lines and most likely not getting picked. YES EG is a bunch of raffles you probably won't win.

Nobody is responsible for you but you. If you want to get the most out of EG you HAVE to be proactive about it. You need to keep your thoughts on, you need to check the service verb every so often, you need to watch for monsterbold announcements, you need to know where merchants are. In THAT respect, it is not an event for the "casual" gamer, in the sense that the casual gamer will likely not have a good time of it, because they won't get much from it. Resources like Narost and the raffles post here and Lnet make it a LOT easier for the casual player, but you still need to work at it to "get your money's worth". Merchants aren't going to teleport to you and ask what you want.

BESIDES the merchanting, EG offers a lot of things you won't get anywhere else. The hearts, the games....I could sit and play Midway games for hours. Its so much better now...we used to get junk loot almost every attempt. Tickets are much preferred, even if there isn't much decent stuff to use them on...although the permifier this year was pretty boss. The Necropolis...ask people who got their bad-ass enhancives from the Necropolis how much EG sucks. Also, fusion shaman, enhancive perms, shelf-sold fusion gear...some services are unique or nearly unique to EG, and are readily available at EG. Again, you get out of it what you put in.

Delerium Manor: Kinda meh on this. My main issue with it is the lack of variety in loot drops. Chrism holders weren't sold off-the-shelf at EG this year, as they have been in the past, but instead were dropped in DM. That's fine and all, but...THOUSANDS of them went out. When they were first released at EG a few years ago, they sold off the shelf for 100k. Nobody is gonna pay that now...I see them for sale on PC for 10k with nobody buying. Complete and total flood and destruction of that particular market.
I made out like a bandit from DM because I managed to pull a core, but I'm not allowing that to influence my vote...vast majority of DM loot was crap. The chronomage orbs were kinda cool...for the first 20 or so. The MAIN pull from DM is the cores for the dolls, and that's a fairly niche market that I don't see expanding.

THIRD: Kyrinthe. She's just hilarious.

FINALLY: Not sure what you're asking here...prize I liked the most that I won was an enchant to take my twc warrior's perfect-forged 7x void flaring t5 katar to 8x. Prize I would have liked to win most would probably be...hell, I dunno. Whichever jackpot ended up selling for the most.

[Geijon Khyree]

Good recap.

EG is a 16 day or whatever festival stacked with services. Thats a lot of GM effort and availability.

We cant all hit 400 million jackpots.

[Nathala Crane]

This was the first Ebon Gate I've gone to since it was still in Velathae, and I found it acceptable. I heard some grumbling about there not being as many GALD merchants as previous years, but I feel that GALD is common enough outside of pay events. I do wish there were more feature alter opportunities in general, though. My only real complaint about EG is the Permifier: given its inherently "fluffy" nature, I can't help but feel it was extremely overpriced.

As for Delirium Manor - well, the sewers/Duskruin Dig model of "pay and pay and pay for a chance to win" got old for me last Duskruin. I was not interested in doing it here, and I will likely not be interested in doing it at the next DR. It has become clear that these are designed for players with much more disposable income than I'm willing to spend on a GemStone event.

[chalion]

This was my first EG and I took two accounts. It was a blast. I went in with big expectations and while there was some low spots I was EXTREMELY lucky. I may not have got the exact things I wanted but I got a very useful MAJOR on each account. I won some useful T5's that are rare RP props that I'd actually use. I was also able to buy a perfect RP prop for my main character.
From what I personally saw, picked up on, and hear grumblings about from others is that it seems there may have been some staffing issues this year. It felt like merchants would trickle in instead of causing a lot of overlap, and when there was overlap it was for unlocks so you didnt really thin the heard for when a GALD showed up. Overall I was happy with this but I am more of an RP/fluff based player than a mechanical advantage (Though my Majors were mechnical).
The most fun I had was always at the live games- The live games week was fantastic! The Wheel games and GHOUL ! I will always drop what I am doing to join Farain and the wheel whenever it shows up!
I really hope Goblyn was serious when she says she'll come back and sell more pies with me and others. That was probably the highlight of the festival. It's really great to see GM's who enjoy interacting and RPing with the players.

If I had to also provide some down sides - There was one event I saw cut short because what I understand to be a mix of semantics and confusion of the playerbase. I think this was a simple thing that got blown out of proportion because of the flood of people racing to get a GLAD (seems to be high demand).

I also took time off of work to try and get the absolute most out of it that I could and I feel I could have had just as much fun if I had gone to work (maybe a bit worse for the wear) but services seemed to fall right into the times of afternoons and evenings. I am neutral on this as there was no promise of non stop merchanting etc. All the raffles seemed to fall into reasonable times based on a 9-5 work schedule and there was some services sprinkled at odd hours.

I think you would do very well designing an event, maybe a weekend or four day weekend, which was dedicated just to GALD work. Maybe some basic/plain items sold with a few raffles for unlocks on clothing etc. Something like this would have worked great with Fashion week! I know an event like this wouldnt appeal to everyone, but clearly there is a high demand for the service.

[Ltlprprincess]

Live games I did enjoy. I always plan well in advanced for that costume contest and pray I at least place. This year was no different and when I realized there was no second or third place, I started staying because competition was fierce this year. I managed to win scariest and get a custom spell prep that was perfect for my ice mage.

[macgyver]

I really don't know where you pull your info from.

I believe you said DM was more popular then you had expected in the other thread;I know I was hooked for a ton of $ trying to finish off the doll. Anyhow, my speculating/conjecturizing was a lead-in to making the Simucoin shop more consumer friendly (as in a full selection of F2P items). I know I keep going on about this, but you just won't understand if you're subbed.

And yeah, for the amount of raw cash I put into DM, I think the return in terms of prizes were not that great even after adjusting for the doll and jackpot prizes. Relative to the EG dig (which was far far cheaper and in silver denomination) and generally had very nice rewards (a lot of T5's were excellent even not accounting for the jackpot prizes) I can only say DM was tragically bad.(in terms of rewards) There just isn't any wiggle room for debate here; a lot people got burned bad (especially if they were chasing that doll).

EG was awesome in my opinion; but again, I'm speaking as someone who hasn't been to a fest since the jugg. It seemed way more fun then any fest I've been in prior, that is certain.

Finally, Wyrom, some of us here would sugar coat the heck out of our replies to you since you are the master of our Gemstone universe. But frankly, I don't see how that would help you or the game. I think giving you what we're thinking and feeling (even the conspiracy theories) would be far more useful than anything else. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, you have the belief that these boards may sway opinion or hold influence over the GS populace. Eh, from what I gather from the people posting here I think we're all-in for the long haul. However, the recent returnee or new guy who just burned 200 bucks on his CC with very little to show for it, not so much.

[beldannon5]

eg had fantastic value dm had the most terrible awful disgusting evil value of anything ever

I have about 200 chrono spheres. I ended up getting around 200 torsos 100 arms 20 legs 200 or so symbols and some other stuff

Nothing teir 5 or worth any value. Also they dropped the value of the symbols at the pawnshop from 22 or 25 to 14k after the first day or two

[Candor]

Is DM going to be repeated in the future, or should I just throw all the doll parts in the nearest bin...

[beldannon5]

you should do that anyways. That place sucks so bad. :)

[Roblar]

If you mean extra doll parts, buy a pass (in silver from someone EG finds or someone selling from store if you need to) and get 5 tickets per at least for them.

I'm sure it will return though, because it is a cool place, newly created, and any necessary value or reward tweaks will be made.

[Elvenlady]

EG was a bust for me this year in terms of services but that's all on me as I was away and missed all of the middle weekend, only took 1 character/1 account and didn't start my merchant stalking until Tuesday night. That said, I still came away with 3 live game prizes and 13 services which I really wanted (with no imbeds). Sadly no T5s. Yes, I've normally walked away with 3 times that amount but EG is more than services to me: it's about the ambience, the catching up with old friends, making new friends, playing silly games for fun, and making memories (Fashion Week may well include kobold haute couture next year).

I enjoyed both the Necropolis and Delirium Manor experiences; the creativity and thought that went into those just astounds me and it's what keeps me playing GS rather than the crazy RNG prize scrabble. My only suggestion would be to stop and smell the roses once in a while; take a look around at the wonderful world that has been created for us and which we get to play in!

[Candor]

If you mean extra doll parts, buy a pass (in silver from someone EG finds or someone selling from store if you need to) and get 5 tickets per at least for them.

I'm sure it will return though, because it is a cool place, newly created, and any necessary value or reward tweaks will be made.

I didn't mean extra doll parts - I was selling extras to the NPCs in the Manor. I just could never find the glue (ooze right?) or a core.

[evasive1]

No T5s. And I had 1 GALD the other night thanks to Strella doing services for people with less than 5. There were some really slow alterations that more than tested my patience, so the other 2 announced services I missed while waiting for my turn. Like two people literally took up almost an hour. Mine took 30 seconds? Whatever, that felt good to get out. I need to start caring more about my money.

[macgyver]

I didn't mean extra doll parts - I was selling extras to the NPCs in the Manor. I just could never find the glue (ooze right?) or a core.

DM is for all intents and purposes this...

http://www.citynews.ca/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/10/2009/01/12b10f4542ef87e2da0d1cb8b3ec.jpeg

Saying you couldn't find the ooze is tantamount to saying you could never find the 'double jackpot' 3 times in a row.

There are ways to part people from their money without poisoning the person's will from ever doing said activity again;these events are for two types of people 1.) Those that never experienced said event before; and thus clueless about what he's getting himself into and 2.)People with a massive amount of disposable income.

I don't mind Simu sponging up every last penny from both categories but how this is sustainable in the long term, I'm not quite sure on.

[jon1833]

I found two oozes almost right away, and gave them both away when I was unloading because I didn't know what they were, and others were asking for them. Haven't found one since, never found a head. Probably did about 500+ runs.

[macgyver]

I found two oozes almost right away, and gave them both away when I was unloading because I didn't know what they were, and others were asking for them. Haven't found one since, never found a head. Probably did about 500+ runs.

And I found two heads; go figure. The core was the bottleneck, and most likely if you were going for the core you would've found the rest along the way.

[Allereli]

the announcement on the officials also reminded me that I skipped every session of GHOUL. Don't play GHOUL if you want services.

[Nathala Crane]

the announcement on the officials also reminded me that I skipped every session of GHOUL. Don't play GHOUL if you want services.

This is so far away from my experience. I played every GHOUL session, worked the entire week, and made out like a bandit on general alterations and a few other services. And I play on a single account.

[Gelston]

Keeping an eye on Twitter was pretty good. There were probably 100 + tweets about services and raffles.

[we2monkeys]

The preponderance for unlocking fluff tiers at all of these more recent (i.e., within the last 10 years) events just highlights what an oddity GSIV is in the MUD and RP community. It seems like it's the only text game where you are encouraged to showcase someone else's roleplay writing and creativity (stock verbs, scripts, twirly doodads), and are more or less discouraged from creating or using your own (ACT, smile, etc.). GSIV excels at character customization, I just wish there wasn't such a heavy focus on pre-written fluff scripts and more on encouraging individual emotes and creativity.

[While I'm at it, but heading slightly off topic, GSIV is also the only roleplay-centric game I've played (subscription, f2p, or free) where player emotes/actions are bracketed out like we're untrustworthy children who are going to turn our characters into ACTed flying demons. I honestly believe this more for an economical reason than for a trust reason, as it's easier to make money off tiered fluff scripts if you can use them in roleplay without the brackets. Brackets are ridiculously dumb, belittling, annoying, and marginalize player creativity.]

I will never understand things like a 12 million silver value on a dress just because you can curtsy fancily in it. In a RP-focused game, I find a lot more in common with the type of player who actually writes out their own curtsy rather than verb-turns their dress to make one.

To have a better EG value, I would want to see a balance found between unlocking tiers and more GALD services. I'm a bit worried about the potential for GALD in the future, since one of the Reds on the official forums said some of the GMs dislike doing alterations. If character customization is one of the biggest perks as a game, then I'd hope they would focus on hiring GMs who work towards more of that goal.

[Gelston]

I'm a bit worried about the potential for GALD in the future, since one of the Reds on the official forums said some of the GMs dislike doing alterations. If character customization is one of the biggest perks as a game, then I'd hope they would focus on hiring GMs who work towards more of that goal.

Just because some dislike doing, doesn't mean it is going away, or even lessening. GALD is really one of the easiest things a GM can do as far as a service. Unlocks seem super easy, but that is if the GM owns that particular script or has permission.

Hell, Alters used to be very rare. Alterations used to add value to items... Even ugly alters, just for the sake of them having been altered, were more valuable.

[vamosj]

Ebon Gate had disappointing value; Delirium had terrible value.

This is more so for me because year after year I feel the same way that this is just not worth it. Then EG comes back around and I think MAYBE this is my year just to be let down again. The only saving grace this EG for me was that I won my FIRST EVER raffle in the lands after 20 years of playing. Yeah it was for something I couldn't use but hey, I was able to sell it for 3 mil so I recouped around $25 of the $95 I put into it.

During the event I was able to get 10 merchant services done. Breakdown is 6 lightens, 2 alters, the raffle win, and a custom toast on a drinking horn (which they had me change after a couple of days). Out of these services only ONE was obtained using a merchant spinning tool. The rest were all room order. Even with the odds of being spin reading around 50% on at least a couple of the spinners, I was only picked one time for the multiple spinner events I attended.

This also does not count the hours I spent at digging, games, manor, and carousel with not one T5 win. Any interesting item I received that MIGHT have been somewhat valuable on the market had it's value significantly undercut as the market was flooded with hoards of the same style/type of the item.

Next year I think I will just be doing games and attending raffles. In order to break even I calculate that I would need around 40k tickets to sell at 400 silvers each + 250 tickets for each raffle I attend. These are just quick calculations so it could be a bit different but I don't think it'll be by much without accounting for outliers such as T5 or a jackpot win or a nice raffle win.


So yeah, EG is basically nothing but a money pit with no actual return for this year or any of my years past.

[Taernath]

[While I'm at it, but heading slightly off topic, GSIV is also the only roleplay-centric game I've played (subscription, f2p, or free) where player emotes/actions are bracketed out like we're untrustworthy children who are going to turn our characters into ACTed flying demons.]

Because people have done that. People have also had their character rape other characters through ACT commands in TSC.

[crb]

I will say this, with like what, 10 options on this poll, it is amazing how there was such a strong consistent response.

[Nathala Crane]

I just realized I forgot to answer the other two questions in my previous post.

Third, which GM NPC did you enjoy the most? why?

Definitely Boring. GM Zythica deserves a medal for being so patient, given the amount of inane chatter going on during the GHOUL sessions.

Finally which reward/prize did you like the most?

Fully unlocked Xojium robe. Might be my favorite scripted item in the game. Ever.

[Wyrom]

I believe you said DM was more popular then you had expected in the other thread;I know I was hooked for a ton of $ trying to finish off the doll. Anyhow, my speculating/conjecturizing was a lead-in to making the Simucoin shop more consumer friendly (as in a full selection of F2P items). I know I keep going on about this, but you just won't understand if you're subbed.

And yeah, for the amount of raw cash I put into DM, I think the return in terms of prizes were not that great even after adjusting for the doll and jackpot prizes. Relative to the EG dig (which was far far cheaper and in silver denomination) and generally had very nice rewards (a lot of T5's were excellent even not accounting for the jackpot prizes) I can only say DM was tragically bad.(in terms of rewards) There just isn't any wiggle room for debate here; a lot people got burned bad (especially if they were chasing that doll).

EG was awesome in my opinion; but again, I'm speaking as someone who hasn't been to a fest since the jugg. It seemed way more fun then any fest I've been in prior, that is certain.

Finally, Wyrom, some of us here would sugar coat the heck out of our replies to you since you are the master of our Gemstone universe. But frankly, I don't see how that would help you or the game. I think giving you what we're thinking and feeling (even the conspiracy theories) would be far more useful than anything else. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, you have the belief that these boards may sway opinion or hold influence over the GS populace. Eh, from what I gather from the people posting here I think we're all-in for the long haul. However, the recent returnee or new guy who just burned 200 bucks on his CC with very little to show for it, not so much.

Couple things here, mac... I'm not looking for anyone to sugar coat their responses and posts because I'm here. I prefer you give it to me bluntly and as candidly as possible. I do prefer feedback (whether positive or negative) to have some substance. Saying "EG WAS GREAT!!!" is just as bad as saying "EG SUCKS!!!" I'd like to know why, in both cases.

But the reason I quoted you and responded was not because I feel your post was too real, it was because you're pull something out of your ass entirely. DM was not created for the Premium promo, it was to give people who might have no interest in EG to do something else. We understand that our event-heavy players will likely do both. We also gave plenty of opportunities to check DM out for free. You got 5 passes per character at EG plus could win 2-entry passes in the games. We also had some bigger packs in the unique (T5) feeder you could win to go. Someone who bought an admit all could easily go to DM over 50 times for free (and most anyone with an admit all did).

I don't know why you feel DM was success or a failure. I did mention a lot more people were involved than we thought. Overall this has been a decent EG. I think people have higher expectations of the event. We're a long ways from the days of MAYBE getting one alteration. It doesn't mean it's perfect though. Feedback is always nice to have, even if this represents a small sample size.


DM is for all intents and purposes this...

http://www.citynews.ca/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/10/2009/01/12b10f4542ef87e2da0d1cb8b3ec.jpeg

Saying you couldn't find the ooze is tantamount to saying you could never find the 'double jackpot' 3 times in a row.

There are ways to part people from their money without poisoning the person's will from ever doing said activity again;these events are for two types of people 1.) Those that never experienced said event before; and thus clueless about what he's getting himself into and 2.)People with a massive amount of disposable income.

I don't mind Simu sponging up every last penny from both categories but how this is sustainable in the long term, I'm not quite sure on.

If this was a slot machine, and trust me, I'm an avid slot machine enthusiast, you'd go in and come up with nothing the majority of the time. Even machines that have a 98% payback percentage, you don't get 98 cent per dollar spent. That means it paybacks roughly 98% over it's life. DM lets you walk away with tickets, a SimuCoin item valued at roughly ~95 SC, a doll part, and a chance at a valuable item. Yes, it's not Duskruin Sewers that give you the chance at enhancives or a powerful weapon/armor piece. But we were very straight up about that going into this. Not all of our players want the power grind. DM was not an intended grind like that. More dolls were made than we thought. But our first doll was on opening weekend. Cores have been dropping at a steady rate. We also realize that the collectible is not for everyone. You can make that judgment pretty quickly (or even before it was released). We hope that no one feels sucked in for reasons of chasing things they don't have any desire to have. There will always be a loss if you chase things in hopes to make a profit. Anyone who deals with ROIs knows that luck is NEVER a factor.

But touching back on my slot machine knowledge. I've tested slot machines for Incredible Technologies, I've beta tested for High 5 Games. I've met people from WMS, Bally, and Aristocrat. I've talked with the slot floor/marketing directors at many casinos. I've placed at tournaments. I'm a nerd when it comes to casinos. I've also won a few taxed jackpots. These are in no way coded like slot machines.

[tiggereye]

I voted fantastic EG/acceptable DM, though I would have voted fantastic eg/disappointing dm had there been a choice.

I had a pretty great time at EG this year, especially compared to '15. I put in time and effort during shopping week, researched when and where merchants would be, set up aliases to run for new shops and backrooms, and had a pretty amazing awesome network of fabulous friends who kept each other updated on announcements. Twitter and slack/aim were big helps outside the game. I was also mostly free all week, with little rl obligation, so I did have plenty of time to wait and run for merchants.

Came away with plenty of unlock services and a few GALDs spread over two accounts, a few raffle wins including one major, two live game prizes, my necropolis ether finalized, a new heart, and a pretty awesome t5 from noodling. Also perm'd a couple things. The best part was being able to give most of my spots away to friends, seeing their squishy little text faces light up with joy :p This has always been my favorite part of any event.

Compared to last year it was a no brainer, more merchants spread out over all days and times, more services, better raffles, better hopper prizes, better wall prizes, the permifier. Last year was utterly disappointing- I remember sitting around midweek wondering where all the merchants were. I remember raffles for like, 5x weapons last year. I remember people complaining about the major lack of mechanical services last year, and that there was TOO much gald. Not so this year, they really stepped up the mechanical offerings, and I think they toned down the gald because of those complaints last year. Although I think there were less overall merchants than '13 and '14(my favorite years), they really made an effort to work at various times, and the announcements were greatly appreciated.

I would have liked more tattoo/feature alterations, and more gald(BUT gald is pretty widely available outside of eg if you pay attention to the calendar/are premium, so there needs to be a balance), rare gald of items and fodder most merchants won't touch would have been nice, as well as more new items. I was disappointed in the lack of fancy new scripts(I know there were a couple), no amulet holders, no glamour tattoo(both requested). I think the permifier was way overpriced, and I think some of the t5 hopper prizes were laughable. I also wish there was more of a mad rush of merchants at the end- that's always fun.

Favorite merchant and services.. I love Goblyn, and Boring.. Bazz is always great, as is Farain, Airisu, pretty much everyone. I was SO SAD to not get spun for Duplicity's game, because I love her too. Beitris and her perfumes were probably my favorite services, along with cobbling punches and the Coventry items. My t5 was an altering wand, which kinda made my week.

DM.. was not for me. I did my free passes and bought a few more, and then never went back. The area was very cool to wander around and explore the first time though. A better variety of feeder prizes would have probably had me in more often.

[gs4play]

If this was a slot machine, and trust me, I'm an avid slot machine enthusiast, you'd go in and come up with nothing the majority of the time. Even machines that have a 98% payback percentage, you don't get 98 cent per dollar spent. That means it paybacks roughly 98% over it's life. DM lets you walk away with tickets, a SimuCoin item valued at roughly ~95 SC, a doll part, and a chance at a valuable item. Yes, it's not Duskruin Sewers that give you the chance at enhancives or a powerful weapon/armor piece. But we were very straight up about that going into this. Not all of our players want the power grind. DM was not an intended grind like that. More dolls were made than we thought. But our first doll was on opening weekend. Cores have been dropping at a steady rate. We also realize that the collectible is not for everyone. You can make that judgment pretty quickly (or even before it was released). We hope that no one feels sucked in for reasons of chasing things they don't have any desire to have. There will always be a loss if you chase things in hopes to make a profit. Anyone who deals with ROIs knows that luck is NEVER a factor.

But touching back on my slot machine knowledge. I've tested slot machines for Incredible Technologies, I've beta tested for High 5 Games. I've met people from WMS, Bally, and Aristocrat. I've talked with the slot floor/marketing directors at many casinos. I've placed at tournaments. I'm a nerd when it comes to casinos. I've also won a few taxed jackpots. These are in no way coded like slot machines.

Devils advocating this: i been around a few slot machines in my day, 16 years in the industry. I know that Mega Jackpots would only go off when all machines linked (through multiple properties sometimes) were all being played at max bet consistently for some time. Do casino's even have 98% pay out anymore? i thought most dropped to 92-94% after housing market crash. The appearance was that few T5 and jackpot prizes dropped during off peak hours, when GM's didn't appear to be present.

Ebon Gate had a ton of value for me, 53 services on one character. I wasn't drawn into DM, i played my invitational passes, and bought one more entry, but it just didn't appeal to me. I did feel that the event grounds were way larger for what the offerings were.

I've seen conversations about weighting spinners towards people that don't have a lot of services, I don't agree with that at all, basically someone that hasn't spent any time in EG could get a pick before someone who has devoted 2 weeks to it because they finally showed up?

GALD is thankless work, and I don't envy the GM's that perform it. I have a hard enough time coming up with 1 idea at a time, let alone trying to coddle 10-20 entitled thirty-forty-somethings.
My suggestion is to create GALD verb - when you're spun, you select GA - L or D, let the GM's work through L/D, that should give GA's time to prepare their ideas. GM processes everyone, and anyone who exceeds a 2-3 minute window for their GA be given a Sadie scroll and they can redeem their reward that way.

My two bits!

[SashaFierce]

I do think we need a set of "standards" for GALD merchants.

If the person is not ready when you get to their turn, they are skipped and placed at the back of the line so they have time to figure out what they want. There should be no more waiting 1hr+ for 1 person to figure out what they want. If they ask for help, crowd source the help instead of locking the GM into providing the alter.

[Xannorath]

53 services?!? I don't care how much time you spent in festival grounds, it is insane to me that GMs don't recognize such disparity. I think it's easy to say you disagree with weighted spinners with that kind of volume and not really consider the other side of things.

[Wyrom]

Devils advocating this: i been around a few slot machines in my day, 16 years in the industry. I know that Mega Jackpots would only go off when all machines linked (through multiple properties sometimes) were all being played at max bet consistently for some time. Do casino's even have 98% pay out anymore? i thought most dropped to 92-94% after housing market crash. The appearance was that few T5 and jackpot prizes dropped during off peak hours, when GM's didn't appear to be present.

Are you talking about WAP? That could have been the case years ago, it's not anymore though. I'm also not clear on Mega Jackpots. As for progressive jackpots, they are linked through multiple properties and can be triggered at any time. The odds are pretty fierce, and like you said, you have to be on max bet to be eligible. They are paid out in 20/30 year annuities though.

Some machines do still have 98%, but payback percentages vary from state to state (and state to native american). Newer machines rarely have anything over 90% anymore. The more fun it looks, the worse off it gets. And licensed games (anything based on TV shows, movies, etc) cost the casinos a bit more to carry, so that cuts into their holds. I don't recommend playing anything that looks fun. Mechanical reels are too boring for me though.

Anyway, I can go on and on about slot machines. The point I was making is they aren't coded like slot machines. We don't base anything on 6.7 billion stops. You don't come up empty handed with anything like Arena, Sewers, or Manor.

[SashaFierce]

53 services?!? I don't care how much time you spent in festival grounds, it is insane to me that GMs don't recognize such disparity. I think it's easy to say you disagree with weighted spinners with that kind of volume and not really consider the other side of things.

He probably went to Binklar every day, which counted as 3 services. 3x16 days = a lot of services.

[gs4play]

He probably went to Binklar every day, which counted as 3 services. 3x16 days = a lot of services.

7 days of binklar = 21

[macgyver]

Couple things here, mac... I'm not looking for anyone to sugar coat their responses and posts because I'm here. I prefer you give it to me bluntly and as candidly as possible. I do prefer feedback (whether positive or negative) to have some substance. Saying "EG WAS GREAT!!!" is just as bad as saying "EG SUCKS!!!" I'd like to know why, in both cases.

But the reason I quoted you and responded was not because I feel your post was too real, it was because you're pull something out of your ass entirely. DM was not created for the Premium promo, it was to give people who might have no interest in EG to do something else. We understand that our event-heavy players will likely do both. We also gave plenty of opportunities to check DM out for free. You got 5 passes per character at EG plus could win 2-entry passes in the games. We also had some bigger packs in the unique (T5) feeder you could win to go. Someone who bought an admit all could easily go to DM over 50 times for free (and most anyone with an admit all did).

I don't know why you feel DM was success or a failure. I did mention a lot more people were involved than we thought. Overall this has been a decent EG. I think people have higher expectations of the event. We're a long ways from the days of MAYBE getting one alteration. It doesn't mean it's perfect though. Feedback is always nice to have, even if this represents a small sample size.



If this was a slot machine, and trust me, I'm an avid slot machine enthusiast, you'd go in and come up with nothing the majority of the time. Even machines that have a 98% payback percentage, you don't get 98 cent per dollar spent. That means it paybacks roughly 98% over it's life. DM lets you walk away with tickets, a SimuCoin item valued at roughly ~95 SC, a doll part, and a chance at a valuable item. Yes, it's not Duskruin Sewers that give you the chance at enhancives or a powerful weapon/armor piece. But we were very straight up about that going into this. Not all of our players want the power grind. DM was not an intended grind like that. More dolls were made than we thought. But our first doll was on opening weekend. Cores have been dropping at a steady rate. We also realize that the collectible is not for everyone. You can make that judgment pretty quickly (or even before it was released). We hope that no one feels sucked in for reasons of chasing things they don't have any desire to have. There will always be a loss if you chase things in hopes to make a profit. Anyone who deals with ROIs knows that luck is NEVER a factor.

But touching back on my slot machine knowledge. I've tested slot machines for Incredible Technologies, I've beta tested for High 5 Games. I've met people from WMS, Bally, and Aristocrat. I've talked with the slot floor/marketing directors at many casinos. I've placed at tournaments. I'm a nerd when it comes to casinos. I've also won a few taxed jackpots. These are in no way coded like slot machines.


Couple things here, mac... I'm not looking for anyone to sugar coat their responses and posts because I'm here. I prefer you give it to me bluntly and as candidly as possible. I do prefer feedback (whether positive or negative) to have some substance. Saying "EG WAS GREAT!!!" is just as bad as saying "EG SUCKS!!!" I'd like to know why, in both cases.

But the reason I quoted you and responded was not because I feel your post was too real, it was because you're pull something out of your ass entirely. DM was not created for the Premium promo, it was to give people who might have no interest in EG to do something else. We understand that our event-heavy players will likely do both. We also gave plenty of opportunities to check DM out for free. You got 5 passes per character at EG plus could win 2-entry passes in the games. We also had some bigger packs in the unique (T5) feeder you could win to go. Someone who bought an admit all could easily go to DM over 50 times for free (and most anyone with an admit all did).

I don't know why you feel DM was success or a failure. I did mention a lot more people were involved than we thought. Overall this has been a decent EG. I think people have higher expectations of the event. We're a long ways from the days of MAYBE getting one alteration. It doesn't mean it's perfect though. Feedback is always nice to have, even if this represents a small sample size.



If this was a slot machine, and trust me, I'm an avid slot machine enthusiast, you'd go in and come up with nothing the majority of the time. Even machines that have a 98% payback percentage, you don't get 98 cent per dollar spent. That means it paybacks roughly 98% over it's life. DM lets you walk away with tickets, a SimuCoin item valued at roughly ~95 SC, a doll part, and a chance at a valuable item. Yes, it's not Duskruin Sewers that give you the chance at enhancives or a powerful weapon/armor piece. But we were very straight up about that going into this. Not all of our players want the power grind. DM was not an intended grind like that. More dolls were made than we thought. But our first doll was on opening weekend. Cores have been dropping at a steady rate. We also realize that the collectible is not for everyone. You can make that judgment pretty quickly (or even before it was released). We hope that no one feels sucked in for reasons of chasing things they don't have any desire to have. There will always be a loss if you chase things in hopes to make a profit. Anyone who deals with ROIs knows that luck is NEVER a factor.

But touching back on my slot machine knowledge. I've tested slot machines for Incredible Technologies, I've beta tested for High 5 Games. I've met people from WMS, Bally, and Aristocrat. I've talked with the slot floor/marketing directors at many casinos. I've placed at tournaments. I'm a nerd when it comes to casinos. I've also won a few taxed jackpots. These are in no way coded like slot machines.


Boiling it all down and thinking clearly afterwards, the main source of my rage (and my lack thereof in EG) seems to be the way I got back into the game (after losing) to "gamble" again.

The time it took to window out of the game, enter my CC, purchase a new booklet, window back in, and claim booklet to get back into the mansion allowed the following emotions to come into play: Anger - "What the fuck?! Vellum tix almost all the way through that time...GMs are fucking me!" Conflict - "Do I really need to do this? This is literally a dinner and movie for two!" Resignation - "Whatever I'm at the page anyway." Anticipation - "OK nice, heading to the attic." Release - Although, with each search turning up nothing I come closer to the first emotion, Anger, and the cycle repeats.

With EG, since everything is done in silvers and readily available, I skip all the emotions except parts of Anticipation, and all of Release. Couple that with the fact that some pretty nice prizes did pop up and I rarely entered into Anger. EG (not speaking for missed GALDs and merchants etc.) in comparison was pure heroine IV'd into my veins.

Thus, my recommendation is this, strictly thinking about this from a Simu business/profit perspective I suggest making an interface to purchase Simustore items(DR, DM, New Whatever) directly in-game as long as a CC is listed on the account. Basically,

>Go door

>You are attempting to enter Delirium Manor which requires an invitation. Would you like to purchase one (1) invitation for 1.00 USD? (Y/N)
>
y
Processing Request...Complete! A fee of 1.00 USD has been charged onto your credit card.
>

Now that I think about it, there could be some ethical issues "selling" your product in this manner. I vaguely recall Vegas casinos grappling with regulators whether or not players should be allowed to insert a credit card directly into a slot machine, wherein each tap of the button will automatically deduct the wager from the inserted CC. But, I'm not here to talk about business ethics, all I know is this will probably cut out a lot of the immediate negative emotions.

[Velfi]

http://i.imgur.com/R8ibPVU.gif

[Warriorbird]

http://i.imgur.com/R8ibPVU.gif

http://www.teamgleason.org/wp-content/themes/deliciousmagazine-child/_img/inspire-type.jpg

[OldSkool]

Thus, my recommendation is this, strictly thinking about this from a Simu business/profit perspective I suggest making an interface to purchase Simustore items(DR, DM, New Whatever) directly in-game as long as a CC is listed on the account. Basically,
>Go door
>You are attempting to enter Delirium Manor which requires an invitation. Would you like to purchase one (1) invitation for 1.00 USD? (Y/N)
>
y
Processing Request...Complete! A fee of 1.00 USD has been charged onto your credit card.
>

Now that I think about it, there could be some ethical issues "selling" your product in this manner. I vaguely recall Vegas casinos grappling with regulators whether or not players should be allowed to insert a credit card directly into a slot machine, wherein each tap of the button will automatically deduct the wager from the inserted CC. But, I'm not here to talk about business ethics, all I know is this will probably cut out a lot of the immediate negative emotions.

Ethical issues aside, there are monetary issues involved for the merchant. Each time your credit card is processed, there is a fee attached - and if that linked card is an AmEx...

This is why some places do not accept Discover or American Express.

[Dendum]

Generally the games that do such in game purchases require you to buy a certain curreny, like simucoins, in a certain minimum value like 4.99.

I do not think there is an ethical problem plenty of pay to win games work that way now.

[Viekn]

http://www.teamgleason.org/wp-content/themes/deliciousmagazine-child/_img/inspire-type.jpg

Right or wrong, Inspire isn't that thoughtful or insightful.

[drauz]

Couple things here, mac... I'm not looking for anyone to sugar coat their responses and posts because I'm here. I prefer you give it to me bluntly and as candidly as possible. I do prefer feedback (whether positive or negative) to have some substance. Saying "EG WAS GREAT!!!" is just as bad as saying "EG SUCKS!!!" I'd like to know why, in both cases.

My take away from DM is that I will be waiting a few hours/days with the next pay slot machine event. This seemed like a blatant rip off in every sense of the word. I'm sure that some people loved it, though I've never seen someone gushing about how awesome DM was.

DM had terrible value, for the price the prizes where insanely underwhelming. What made DR acceptable was that even if you didn't get an item you still got tickets that could buy something of value. EG tickets prices dropped because the only thing of value was the PERM-ifier. DM could have been made better by simply adding its own tickets/scrip and having its own prize wall w/decent prizes.

The spell preps were way overpriced. I also feel that the all around use spell preps should have been on the wall, and the class specific ones should have been in the feeder.

[beldannon5]

Dm is the suckiest suck of all. Whoever created it should be drawn and quartered. If the rewards had been decent ibwouldnt care. But 600 plus runs and all crap one head a few legs one glue 1009999 spheres (sarcasm) and probably 100 or more symbols that they cut how much hey were selling for in half a couple of days in

[crb]

wish we could sell those spheres back to the chronomages

[crb]

Ethical issues aside, there are monetary issues involved for the merchant. Each time your credit card is processed, there is a fee attached - and if that linked card is an AmEx...

This is why some places do not accept Discover or American Express.

He is right, and that is precisely why they sell simucoin bundles instead of doing direct sales.

Every place that takes microtransactions has some method of aggregating them in this way. If you buy advertising from Google you don't have your card charged 5 cents each time someone clicks on an ad. Some places will aggregate them on a daily or weekly basis and then charge. Even some of those new vending machines that take credit cards will aggregate a day total.

[LivderaDeralleur]

wish we could sell those spheres back to the chronomages



+100 to this!

I got so many Chronomage spheres from DM it isn't funny.

True, there are a few I will probably keep. But there are several that I really have no use for - IE Solhaven/Icemule/Cysaegir. It's going to be hard enough trying to remember which one is which without grabbing them all and GAZEing at them. It'd be even more difficult to sell them - probably impossible to sell in a player shop due to not being able to tell which town it is for most likely.

Any way those Chronomage spheres can be turned into the Chronomages for a credit or something to be used on-demand? Maybe like how the gold ring thing works but base the value on how much that trip would cost?

[Neovik1]

wish we could sell those spheres back to the chronomages



It would be nice if we could either give them to the cronomage for credit or actually be able to sell them to the pawnshop for 35k. That it my mind would probably make me feel a little differently about DM. Same with the age reset and the million birth certificates I have. 35k seems some what fair and it helps open up some locker space. I have enough birth certificates for everyone in the game.

I would prefer 35k to the pawnshop though to help recoup my plunder in the gutter from DM... 23m and 130 dollars for a bunch of simu items no one wants that has clogged up all my alts. I kept telling myself I would get the core but had no luck... DM was a waste.

I enjoyed EG though! I atleast got something out of it with some of the T4 prizes. Definitely worth the price tag there. DM was just an unncessary money pit that I regret doing.

[Neovik1]

I had to vote in the middle though because there wasn't an option for EG being awesome and DM being absolute shit that made me want to quit the game. Luckily my EG experience helped put me back to the middle.

[Maerit]

Hang on people. Everyone is up in arms about DM, but all it needs to be good is a slight tweak to rewards (add in some useful simucoin items vs the fluff to drop) and an upgrade to have some actually useful non-fluff items for sale in the shop. The creator is not to blame because the mansion is really neat. The interactivity with a creepy toy maker fits the genre. The dolls, while entirely fluff and not entirely useful for RP, are pretty interesting creations.

If you get nothing but tickets for a run, you're looking at between 20-30 tickets each run. So the average is 25 tickets @ 400 silvers each = 10k per run. The entry fee is ~ 80-100k. If they could fill in the gaps here with something that could make up that value difference, then it would feel more useful. As it stands, the ticket returns were too expensive.

Compare it to digging in the graveyard in EG. For 1k you get a 1 use shovel that could unearth you ~2-3 tickets and a gem. So for 10k you could end up with the same amount of tickets you'd get spending the equivalent of 80k from going to DM and gems / prizes. Sounds like digging is a winner aside from it taking longer to reward the prize.

The prize table and payout for DM needs to be revisited. The design of the manor, the dolls, and the way it functions is mostly good. We need to see something useful from the shop, however...

[macgyver]

Hang on people. Everyone is up in arms about DM, but all it needs to be good is a slight tweak to rewards (add in some useful simucoin items vs the fluff to drop) and an upgrade to have some actually useful non-fluff items for sale in the shop. The creator is not to blame because the mansion is really neat. The interactivity with a creepy toy maker fits the genre. The dolls, while entirely fluff and not entirely useful for RP, are pretty interesting creations.

If you get nothing but tickets for a run, you're looking at between 20-30 tickets each run. So the average is 25 tickets @ 400 silvers each = 10k per run. The entry fee is ~ 80-100k. If they could fill in the gaps here with something that could make up that value difference, then it would feel more useful. As it stands, the ticket returns were too expensive.

Compare it to digging in the graveyard in EG. For 1k you get a 1 use shovel that could unearth you ~2-3 tickets and a gem. So for 10k you could end up with the same amount of tickets you'd get spending the equivalent of 80k from going to DM and gems / prizes. Sounds like digging is a winner aside from it taking longer to reward the prize.

The prize table and payout for DM needs to be revisited. The design of the manor, the dolls, and the way it functions is mostly good. We need to see something useful from the shop, however...

Never made a single declaration on the quality and creativity of the writing. The writing in Gemstone is always on a professional level and I would say way better than "Hollywood crap". This level and depth of writing is a defining element of Gemstone's pull in that it gives the game gravitas delineating it from all the generic fanmade crap MUDs out there. This thread is about the in-game rewards versus the monetary costs of attending EG and DM because for better or for worse the rewards/prizes/items are a significant if not majority factor in gameplay and enjoyability.

[Maerit]

Never made a single declaration on the quality and creativity of the writing. The writing in Gemstone is always on a professional level and I would say way better than "Hollywood crap". This level and depth of writing is a defining element of Gemstone's pull in that it gives the game gravitas delineating it from all the generic fanmade crap MUDs out there. This thread is about the in-game rewards versus the monetary costs of attending EG and DM because for better or for worse the rewards/prizes/items are a significant if not majority factor in gameplay and enjoyability.

You can't discount it so easily. Whether there's entertainment value is how you judge this product. Part of that entertainment is winning rewards, the other part is the actual story. Everyone agrees (in general) that the DM rewards were subpar, but the general tone is that DM was the worst event ever - when really the product was well designed. It just needed to have more useful / tangible rewards to improve the impression that people were getting their money's worth.

[Jhynnifer]

You can't discount it so easily. Whether there's entertainment value is how you judge this product. Part of that entertainment is winning rewards, the other part is the actual story. Everyone agrees (in general) that the DM rewards were subpar, but the general tone is that DM was the worst event ever - when really the product was well designed. It just needed to have more useful / tangible rewards to improve the impression that people were getting their money's worth.

I think the atmosphere and rooms were well written, it was clear someone cared for the work they did there. That being said, it was the sewers reskinned with subpar items. I'd love to see more diversity in simucoin-fueled events.

[macgyver]

I think the atmosphere and rooms were well written, it was clear someone cared for the work they did there. That being said, it was the sewers reskinned with subpar items. I'd love to see more diversity in simucoin-fueled events.

I'm telling you, PvP (again not necessarily direct combat) is the way. Even in a blank room with no description or scripts in it; just knowing that there's another living breathing thinking human being in there with you trying to compete with you brings it up to a level that can never be matched by any PvE amusement park on rails. It also leads to huge drama, believe me, it's got the best drama.

[Jhynnifer]

I'm telling you, PvP (again not necessarily direct combat) is the way. Even in a blank room with no description or scripts in it; just knowing that there's another living breathing thinking human being in there with you trying to compete with you brings it up to a level that can never be matched by any PvE amusement park on rails. It also leads to huge drama, believe me, it's got the best drama.

I really don't think that would end well for the general public. Look back at Droughtman's when people were getting pissed that blockers were scripting blocking and destroying players. PVP is not something I think it would be handled well.

[Velfi]

I'm telling you, PvP (again not necessarily direct combat) is the way. Even in a blank room with no description or scripts in it; just knowing that there's another living breathing thinking human being in there with you trying to compete with you brings it up to a level that can never be matched by any PvE amusement park on rails. It also leads to huge drama, believe me, it's got the best drama.

http://i.imgur.com/brURWBu.gif

[Gelston]

I really don't think that would end well for the general public. Look back at Droughtman's when people were getting pissed that blockers were scripting blocking and destroying players. PVP is not something I think it would be handled well.

Yeah. Mac is acting like none of this stuff has ever been tried before. It has been. My last couple Droughtman runs I didn't bother going into the maze, I just wanted the prize from the pile.

[Jhynnifer]

Yeah. Mac is acting like none of this stuff has ever been tried before. It has been. My last couple Droughtman runs I didn't bother going into the maze, I just wanted the prize from the pile.

I remember asking if Gib was blocking for my run, if he was I didn't bother leaving the starting room. He made it so frustrating and unenjoyable it just wasn't worth it. I think that was right around the time they started using roa'ters instead of blockers too.

[macgyver]

I remember asking if Gib was blocking for my run, if he was I didn't bother leaving the starting room. He made it so frustrating and unenjoyable it just wasn't worth it. I think that was right around the time they started using roa'ters instead of blockers too.

Yeah, so the caveat there is a PvP type event done well. I'm not a game designer as some of us here now is; if I had some really cool idea I probably would be out there trying to sell it. Look at college/pro sports and why it's so popular; if the Cubs were all playing in some automated batting cage I probably wouldn't be watching them.

[Jhynnifer]

Yeah, so the caveat there is a PvP type event done well. I'm not a game designer as some of us here now is; if I had some really cool idea I probably would be out there trying to sell it. Look at college/pro sports and why it's so popular; if the Cubs were all playing in some automated batting cage I probably wouldn't be watching them.

Part of the issue here is that GS isn't a pvp game, therefore the professions are not balanced well enough to ever make it feasible and fair. I'd rather not try and keep from ending up a mess like WOW has.

[macgyver]

Part of the issue here is that GS isn't a pvp game, therefore the professions are not balanced well enough to ever make it feasible and fair. I'd rather not try and keep from ending up a mess like WOW has.

PvP doesn't necessarily mean player killing; for instance the pennant chase is a form of "PvPing" just not a very good one.

[Velfi]

PvP doesn't necessarily mean player killing; for instance the pennant chase is a form of "PvPing" just not a very good one.

PvP is player killing. You're talking about players interacting with each other in a multi-player game.

http://i.imgur.com/OtEkFhe.jpg

[FlayedAngel]

While I appreciate the attempt to try something different, I think my main hesitation with DM (and the previous DR dig) for myself is that I tend to end up with stuff that I don't need via the Simucoin store, and stuff that ends up cluttering lockers. *coughcoughChrismHolderscoughcough*

I mean, it's a neat idea and some of that stuff is nice-ish, but I don't need multiple birthday passes and other such like that, y'know? That's what I like about basic DR: I can grind away, have fun doing it, and ultimately use scrip for something I specifically want. If I do the arena, I get a manageable amount of junk that MIGHT be okay or might not, and that's totes fine. Everything else beyond the scrip is just gravy, which makes it far more palatable to me, personally.

I likely would have enjoyed DM a lot more if the ticket generation were a lot higher, and the chance at rando prizes were a lot lower (excluding the good stuff like doll cores and such, of course); opening it before EG as a chance to earn tickets earlier at a small premium seems a bit of a better concept to me.

This has nothing to do with the flavor and room painting, which is pretty INTENSELY creepy and worth seeing at least once or twice.

[FlayedAngel]

Now back to PvP talk!

[Gizmo]

So, apparently they gave a Happy Hour to DM where jackpots chances are tripled till the end of the event?

Anyone else feeling miffed by this who ya know, dropped a good bit into it at the start?

I'm curious if there's any way to get a refund from my card company if possible...I spent a good deal and got nothing, and suddenly now with no prior notice they up the ante 3x?

[Neovik1]

Don't worry I just dropped 30 more dollars and won shit yet again.

[Gizmo]

Don't worry I just dropped 30 more dollars and won shit yet again.

Well, next time I drop 400 on an event, I'll be sure to wait for the inevitable Happy Hour portion as to not waste my money..

[Neovik1]

Or just not waste your money period. They wanted to shake us down more by advertising a better chance at winning nothing. The DM shake down on your player base...

[Gelston]

Why waste your money? Anything from these events you can buy from people later. I used my comp passes and was done.

[Taernath]

I'm telling you, PvP (again not necessarily direct combat) is the way. Even in a blank room with no description or scripts in it; just knowing that there's another living breathing thinking human being in there with you trying to compete with you brings it up to a level that can never be matched by any PvE amusement park on rails. It also leads to huge drama, believe me, it's got the best drama.

Weren't you trying to sell GS forming an esport league on one of your alts a while ago?

[macgyver]

Weren't you trying to sell GS forming an esport league on one of your alts a while ago?

Ehh, that's a bit too ambitious.