Trotksy's daughter preaches against Marajuana use

[xtc]

Daughter of Communist Leon Trotsky is a research scientist at the NIH. She is in Canada today preaching against Canada's plan to decriminalise marijuana.

With Trotsky's daughter preaching against its use, marijuana use must be safe.

Article here (http://healthandfitness.sympatico.msn.ca/News/ContentPosting.aspx?contentid=219e5e5a8ecd47f08445 9a5ee080f77c&show=False&number=0&showbyline=False& subtitle=&abc=abc)

[Edited on 12-9-2004 by xtc]

[Syberus]

Her basis seems to revolve around the fact that people will become addicted to the drug.... I thought it wasn't addictive.

[Parkbandit]

I don't think it's addictive from a medical sense.. but from a 'God, I wanna get high' type sense. I had no physical health problems when I stopped smoking pot.

It's addictive like watching sports, playing a game, etc...

[Meos]

If more people smoked weed, the world would be a better place. Its no wonder the commies are agianst it.

LEGALIZE IT.

My name is Kurt, and I endorse this add.

[Disrupture]

"The notion of legalizing and making drugs accessible, what it will do is ultimately increase the number of people that get exposed to the drug," Volkow said in an interview.

The big problem, as I see it, with pot is to view it as bad because "it's a drug." We take plenty of drugs all the time. If what i've heard is correct, asprin is worse for you than pot. (based on the lethal dose index thing... I don't know much about it, really, but apparently it takes quite a bit more pot to kill you than it does asprin, based on how much you have to consume for a lethal dose. I don't know if it makes pot safer or not, but people definently aren't going to die of pot overdoses). If people realized that pot is safer than some legal alternatives we have on the market, such as alcohol or certain types of medicine that pot could be replaced with, we could get rid of the ban on it and be able to use it for it's health and general enjoyment benefits.

[Disrupture]

Damn... I hadn't even read more into this and seen blatant inaccuracies...

"Those kinds of causal links don't yet exist with pot, she said. But some studies have tied its use to a rise in psychotic episodes and schizophrenia."

Pot only increases the chances of having a psychotic episode if you had that particular form of psychosis in the first place. If you are mentally unstable, you should not be smoking pot.

"Such programs could be pivotal because in the United States, only about 15 per cent of addicts get any kind of treatment, she said." (on the topic of rehab)

If only 15% of people are getting treatment, but we are spending billions on fighting drugs....? Obvious chain of logic would be to spend the money on treatment as opposed to prevention, since obviously prevention isn't working.

[Tsa`ah]

The article made my eyes cross.

The notion that a relaxed atmosphere and availability will help predict addiction is rather laughable to me.

If she's saying "pot is addictive" then she needs flogged and her degree stripped. Psychological addiction sure, but anything can be psychologically addictive.

Now if she's saying that by smoking pot, you let your guard down and try drugs you wouldn't try while sober ... eh. I'm not convinced. I know plenty of pot heads that are just pot heads. Sure, the typical pot head has tried "harsher" substances at one time, but they prefer pot. It's cheaper and they're not all that much into the "danger" thrill.

Pot will never see federal support in the states no matter who holds the majority. Perot summed it up best when he said that we'll never see the day because pot "suppresses" the productivity of the American worker.

Couple that with the impossibility of taxation and the financial gain via fines, and you have every reason Uncle Sam needs to keep it illegal.

I can only hope that each individual state steps up to the plate to give the finger to Sam and legalize medicinal use.

Dude. It effects seperate people differently. There is no way I condone the legalization of weed anywhere, even if they are remove things like bullshit E and coke that could be laced in it.

Trust me guys, a minority of people will fucking spaz, panic, suffer paranoid schizophrenia and go on rampages with hand grenades if it's legalized.

[Tsa`ah]

Paranoia is one of the effects that go hand and hand with the use of pot. The exhibited paranoia is an augmented affect derived from an existing social stigma.

Remove the stigma, remove the paranoia.

Um, what kind of social stigma plays into the factor that every time I smoke up, I'm debating calling 911 because I *know* that I'm dying?

[Parkbandit]

This just in: McDonalds, Taco Bell and 7-11 have all backed the idea of legalizing pot. They also forcast strong revenues in the months following it's legalization.

:D

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
Trust me guys, a minority of people will fucking spaz, panic, suffer paranoid schizophrenia and go on rampages with hand grenades if it's legalized. I've never heard of someone getting high and hitting their wife. I've heard of lots of people getting drunk and hitting their wife.

Latrin, I've seen people do crazy shit on a plethora of drugs, not just pot, but.. just pot, yes, I have seen video of a man holding his baby at knife point for like 8 hours while police are yelling at him after he gets a fucked up buzz from smoking the ganj.

[Latrinsorm]

Of course, I bow to your superior drug knowledge. However, I still believe alcohol to be at least as if not more dangerous than marijuana.

I was more violent and obnoxious smoking pot (and that's if I'm getting a *good high*) than I've ever been getting drunk. :shrug:

[Keller]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Paranoia is one of the effects that go hand and hand with the use of pot. The exhibited paranoia is an augmented affect derived from an existing social stigma.

Remove the stigma, remove the paranoia.

paranoia is a side-effect of the shit chemicals people use in hydroponic growing.

[Keller]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
Latrin, I've seen people do crazy shit on a plethora of drugs, not just pot, but.. just pot, yes, I have seen video of a man holding his baby at knife point for like 8 hours while police are yelling at him after he gets a fucked up buzz from smoking the ganj.

I call shenanigans. If in fact this guy was not on Meth at the same time -- this is an isolated case and should be treated as one.

[Keller]

My own two cents.

You need to establish trust with your kids before its too late. When I got into middle school my mom and dad sat me down to tell me that they had both smoked pot in college. They told me that they would be dissapointed if I started to smoke pot and they would not allow it before I was 18. They also told me the reason we were having this conversation was because there were substances in that are truly bad. While pot is not good, it is also not bad. That knowledge and trust was invaluble as all my friends started doing acid and coke. I knew my parents were enturely truthful with me about drugs where all my friends parents had always told them that pot was just as bad as all the rest of the drugs. Because they all knew that pot was relatively harmless they assumed the same of all the rest of the drugs that their parents lumped into that category. And if you want to see someone do fucked up shit -- watched them drop 8 and go to school. Isn't that what childhood is all about?

If you want to see this scenario worked out in a practical sense look to the Netherlands. Walk into any of the BCH approved coffee-shop in Amsterdam and there will be NO HARD DRUGS signs all over the place. The clerks are all very knowledgable about why pot should be used above and beyond all the other available hard drugs. Look at the legal system where a pot possession case is RARELY prosecuted but hard drug cases will always carry the highest penalty. Then you see the range of 15-25% of residents use marijuana, and you'll see a system that truly works.

[Disrupture]

I'm curios, Tsa'ah, why do you say pot wouldn't be taxable if it was legalized? Couldn't they just tax is just like alcohol and cigarettes if it was being sold over the counter in stores?

[Norator]

Cause if it was legal, lots of folks would grow/sell their own. Also, on the "mentally unstable people shouldn't smoke pot" dude...pot actually helps stabalize my ass. I'd bet that if I could smoke it at leisure, given I could afford it, I could prolly go back to holding down a job, and stop being this depressed loser I am. Granted, longest I ever held a job was for like 6 months, an well..I was smokin a blunt when I got to work, a few bowls during my first shift, an a couple more bowls when I got home after my second shift. At that time, I was a night cook at denny's, an I covered the bar runs jes fine. Only problem was that all I ever did was work, and sleep, but, it was a guarantee almost every night I was workin a double. And, I was working then, an not hating everything. Legalize it.

[Disrupture]

They wouldn't grow / sell their own once companies wised up and started growing. When you could buy cheap, good pot at a drug store, why go to the effort of doing it yourself?

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Disrupture
They wouldn't grow / sell their own once companies wised up and started growing. When you could buy cheap, good pot at a drug store, why go to the effort of doing it yourself?

I disagree.

Cigarettes are addictive, chemically addictive. One would need to farm several acres of land to feed that addiction. Alcohol, also a form of chemical addiction, is a somewhat complicated process. Addicts look for convenience.

Pot is easily grown and a few plants can sustain casual consumption. Let’s not forget that for many users, this is already what they do. What’s going to change if it is legalized?

Sure, companies would cash in on it and make huge profits, but nothing compared to what the tobacco and alcohol industries see in a single quarter.

The only time a pot head is going to drop a 10 spot on a pack of Acapulco Gold is when he/she doesn't get the harvest cycle right.

Also take into account that people would still buy illegally.

What would you do as a student with limited funds, buy from Speedway at a premium price, or buy off of the back alley dealer for half price?

Taxation won't yield the revenue that current fines do.

[Edited on 12-10-2004 by Tsa`ah]

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

So when we have pot smokers behind the wheel, what do we do? how about when a baby sitter fires up and forgets the baby in the bathtub? The doctor operating on you? The nurse administering your drugs? The semi operator passing you in the fast lane? The police officer who thinks he see's a gun on you...

It's a drug. I'd rather we continue to treat it as such unless it's medicinal.

[Meos]

The closest time I every freaked out smoking weed was the first time I smoked... which happend to be abouta a 5 foot bong. I thought it was certins for Kurt. After that you know what to expect... Plus I don't think I've ever been that high again in my life.

Freak outs... I can only see happening when your on some crazy shit.

[Meos]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
So when we have pot smokers behind the wheel, what do we do? how about when a baby sitter fires up and forgets the baby in the bathtub? The doctor operating on you? The nurse administering your drugs? The semi operator passing you in the fast lane? The police officer who thinks he see's a gun on you...

It's a drug. I'd rather we continue to treat it as such unless it's medicinal.

Stupid is, stupid does.

I'm not certain about being legal, then again it comes partially from me hating wiggaz and dirty hippies.

- Arkans

[Keller]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by Disrupture
They wouldn't grow / sell their own once companies wised up and started growing. When you could buy cheap, good pot at a drug store, why go to the effort of doing it yourself?

I disagree.

Cigarettes are addictive, chemically addictive. One would need to farm several acres of land to feed that addiction. Alcohol, also a form of chemical addiction, is a somewhat complicated process. Addicts look for convenience.

Pot is easily grown and a few plants can sustain casual consumption. Let’s not forget that for many users, this is already what they do. What’s going to change if it is legalized?

Sure, companies would cash in on it and make huge profits, but nothing compared to what the tobacco and alcohol industries see in a single quarter.

The only time a pot head is going to drop a 10 spot on a pack of Acapulco Gold is when he/she doesn't get the harvest cycle right.

Also take into account that people would still buy illegally.

What would you do as a student with limited funds, buy from Speedway at a premium price, or buy off of the back alley dealer for half price?

Taxation won't yield the revenue that current fines do.

[Edited on 12-10-2004 by Tsa`ah]

I agree quite a few people would grow -- about the same amount of people who grow their own vegetables. I don't think most people would put the time and effort into learning how to grow great pot and then executing that plan. It should still be a controlled substance and people who grow more than they are allowed for personal use should be prosecuted to the full extint of the law. Again, see the Netherlands.

[Keller]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
So when we have pot smokers behind the wheel, what do we do? how about when a baby sitter fires up and forgets the baby in the bathtub? The doctor operating on you? The nurse administering your drugs? The semi operator passing you in the fast lane? The police officer who thinks he see's a gun on you...

It's a drug. I'd rather we continue to treat it as such unless it's medicinal.

We'd treat them the same as a drunk doctor, drunk police officer, drunk babysitter, etc. Why is it assumed that when pot is legalized everyone will just start abusing it?

Pot still sucks.

- Arkans

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Keller
I agree quite a few people would grow -- about the same amount of people who grow their own vegetables. I don't think most people would put the time and effort into learning how to grow great pot and then executing that plan. It should still be a controlled substance and people who grow more than they are allowed for personal use should be prosecuted to the full extint of the law. Again, see the Netherlands.

You can point to the Netherlands or any other pot legal region and it won't be an accurate representation. Differing societal standards and engineering, differing stigmas, different approaches.

The US has this odd blend of repression and promiscuity thrown into a large vat of irresponsibility and refusal of accountability.

Let's face it; the comparison is night and day.

Aside from farmers and hard core vegans, most gardeners are hobbyist. Gardening poses a chore; hence vegetable gardening isn't all that popular.

Cannabis is literally a weed. Unless you're trying to grow it in sand or through hydroponics, it requires little effort and little space.

The ultimate factor here is cost. Legalized pot would not be cheap. Not starting out, and not after processes and marketing are stabilized. It boils down to dropping twice the cost of a pack of Camels, or more, or not changing your routine.

Pot heads aren't going to change their routine. The casual users, as a majority, won't change their routines. The only people that will not grow or buy from growers are the new users.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Taxation won't yield the revenue that current fines do.

But, will legalization significantly lower the amount we spend on jailing people for posession/posession with intent/selling?

Honest question, I don't know the answer.

Jorddyn

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Jorddyn

But, will legalization significantly lower the amount we spend on jailing people for posession/posession with intent/selling?

Honest question, I don't know the answer.

Jorddyn

My short answer - No

My long answer - No, simply because legalization of pot doesn't translate into free licensing. In the US, you need a license to sell any controlled substance.

The street dealer isn't going to get a license, let alone ever be approved for one. Legalization doesn't mean they stop selling and roll over for Phillip Morris, it means they lower prices to remain competitive or to keep business. It also means they are fined and jailed all the same.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
So when we have pot smokers behind the wheel, what do we do? how about when a baby sitter fires up and forgets the baby in the bathtub? The doctor operating on you? The nurse administering your drugs? The semi operator passing you in the fast lane? The police officer who thinks he see's a gun on you...

It's a drug. I'd rather we continue to treat it as such unless it's medicinal. Anti-alcohol?

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by Jorddyn

But, will legalization significantly lower the amount we spend on jailing people for posession/posession with intent/selling?


My short answer - No

My long answer - No, simply because legalization of pot doesn't translate into free licensing. In the US, you need a license to sell any controlled substance.

The street dealer isn't going to get a license, let alone ever be approved for one. Legalization doesn't mean they stop selling and roll over for Phillip Morris, it means they lower prices to remain competitive or to keep business. It also means they are fined and jailed all the same.

I don't agree, but of course neither of us is psychic enough to see what would happen if they did legalize marijuana.

My view is that alcohol was illegal at one point, too. We don't have a huge problem in this country with illegal production of alcohol. That is, there certainly isn't the same problem with it that there was during prohibition.

Additionally, I believe that if there is a steady legal supply, prices will go down. When prices go down, profits go down. When profits go down, there is less incentive to produce/sell for those who are currently doing so.

Jorddyn :shrug: