Ideal monk training

[Alashir]

Thanks to Hazado's work with bigshot, it seems like there are more players willing to take the plunge into the realm of monks with how easy it is to use UAC combat and bigshot where before there was...nothing. As a result, I wanted to offer up my own two cents on the best way to start out a monk.

Before I get started, I wanted to point out that with mstrike changes and reduction in UAC RT, it is very effective and amazing fun to double MoC and go bananas. However, today I wanted to argue in favor of putting off MoC and CM in order to grab spells. My monk is currently level 27, voln master, and has no trouble uphunting a significant degree with most hunts lasting 60-90 seconds.

A nonomino points a rotting finger at you!
CS: +133 - TD: +159 + CvA: +15 + d100: +51 == +40
Warded off!

A moaning spirit swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +228 vs DS: +327 with AvD: +10 + d100 roll: +85 = -4
A clean miss.

You attempt to grapple a moaning spirit!
You have excellent positioning against a moaning spirit.
UAF: 241 vs UDF: 158 = 1.525 * MM: 115 + d100: 24 = 199
... and hit for 48 points of damage!
Body swirls violently from a strong hit to the back.
Neat effect!
You hear a sound like a weeping child as a white glow separates itself from the moaning spirit's body as it rises, disappearing into the heavens.
The moaning spirit falls to the ground motionless.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

Those are my current stats in offensive with wizard spells, my own, and a statue.

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 5 1
Combat Maneuvers...................| 66 14
Brawling...........................| 158 58
Physical Fitness...................| 156 56
Dodging............................| 156 56
Harness Power......................| 111 27
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 25 5
Perception.........................| 111 27
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 50 10

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 9

Spell Lists
Minor Mental.......................| 20


As you can see, I'm doubled in brawling, PF, and dodging while being singled in perception and HP. I'm on target to hit 120 in my late 30's as I have maxed out the amount of spells I can learn at this level. My goal is to hit 120 ASAP and from there I'll start picking up CM training and MoC. I've probably died once, maybe twice, but being a halfling with robes on and doubling in dodge I tend to avoid most maneuver based attacks and those that hit aren't usually devastating. I think the only way I can currently take damage is by a maneuver based attack and if I wanted to I could avoid those with critter choice but as of yet I haven't felt the need to do so.

I'm enjoying the benefits of never having to worry about being disarmed and I feel quite invulnerable at least at these early levels. Late game I'd love to create some amazing 10x T5 robes with additional TD resistance added but for now I'm working on a set of gloves which are currently just plain 9x. The goal would be T5, UB and KO flares which are amazing with UAC.

It's a bit plain and this build wont pick up steam until mid 40's but I suppose having played a bard I'm not so annoyed with coming into power later.

Thoughts?

[Maerit]

Would probably try to sacrifice something for more CM, so you can get krynch stance or max out punch / kick mastery as they significantly help with attrition. Start with dropping lores since the +1 asg isn't worth the tps this early, then anywhere else you can sacrifice. For example, perception is less useful for a monk than CM, since the main point of 1x in perception is to help with maneuvers, but CM is arguably more useful than perception for that purpose while also making you better at aimed attacks and giving CMAN points.

[Archigeek]

Reroll as a ranger or rogue. Ambush UAC from hiding. Repeat as necessary, which won't be often. UAC ambush from hiding is about the clearest indicator of how ineffective "normal" UAC combat is. Monks shouldn't be second class UAC users.

[macgyver]

Reroll as a ranger or rogue. Ambush UAC from hiding. Repeat as necessary, which won't be often. UAC ambush from hiding is about the clearest indicator of how ineffective "normal" UAC combat is. Monks shouldn't be second class UAC users.

Monk from 0 to 27th level / Fixstated 30th level Rogue here, above statement is true... unfortunately(at least for the levels I indicated; maybe it improves over time?). I just don't understand their (the GMs) reasoning here.

[macgyver]

Btw, toward end game I was fiddling with the idea of using a 5x TD shield coupled with brawling. I realize monks don't get 'shielded brawler' (go figure) but with a small shield it may or may not be too bad?

[SpiffyJr]

I completely disagree with the heavy spell focus AFTER the first 20 (or maybe 20 + 1) ranks. You have more spells than I do at level 49. Your goal should be to sit around in offensive and never get hit so, early on, pump spells up to get 1220 and 101. This should give you a nice early game boost to DS. Afterwards, get your MoC up to 2x (until 55/60 ranks) and start working on 2x CMAN. 3x PF (since you have so many physical available) and 3x dodge should come next. Only then would I start working on getting up to 120.

At 49, I wear 102 and Paix is currently unhittable in offensive, prone, and stunned. Things die extremely fast and, often times, in a single focused MSTRIKE PUNCH which has a recovery of around 20'ish seconds with the 3x PF. Once I finish 3x dodge (level 51) I'll be able to stop using 1216 and move it to 1213 instead for even more mstrike goodness.

Paix is the only character I've been able to take into a warcamp completely self-spelled and be able to make good progress in the open. He kills camps extremely fast and is only really bested, in my experience, by a berserk warrior loaded with spells.

[MrMortimur]

A few points.

1. knockout flares are awesome on gloves..I'm constantly amazed how fast the ilvari or minotaurs I hunt die to them.
2. Since you're patient about the journey coming into power as a monk, you're set in my mind. It has just gotten better the more I've leveled.
3. The moc updates were fantastic. As monks and warriors are the only two profs that can double MOC at least they have that going for them as a profession choice over a rogue with their ambushing. I'm working toward the 135 MOC rank threshold for more strikes right now. You playing a halfling you'll get even more use out of it (once you cap) than I do on my burghal. I'm referring to the 8 seconds agidex reduction you'll have at perfect stats and +40 stat bonuses. Granted this might not fit in as easily with your training as it does mine. I have perfect self and being in col I use my stamina to keep surge+burst running with 100% uptime at this point.
4. As my monk got past those low DS teens I decided to give up my transformation lore. In the grand scheme of things...being 1 asg higher doesn't change much (unless CVA is taken into account in the future). I went with telepathy lore instead to power my 100% uptime of surge+burst. At cap I'll revisit my lores as....the idea of having my robes act as MBP is very appealing over the asg 11 it would be just due to the level component.
5. Glad others are enjoying the profession as well. I've been enjoying my hunting prowess and I'm confident that'll continue through at least 91 when I'd move on from the Bowels to....somewhere.

[macgyver]

Out of curiosity, which of you veteran monk experts think the best society for monk is?

[Donquix]

definitely pick up that MoC to 55 ranks and 2x CM. I rushed to 1220/103, caught up the physical skills, then rushed spells again to get 120 around level 60. I also leveled pre-moc updates so I didn't have many other options. The added benefit of being spell heavy is an (even more) reliable 1207 and 1219. I definitely noticed 1207 become less reliable after skipping 1200s for a while, i eventually went up to 1235.

I didn't pick up tripling dodge until well into the 80s / 90s, I capped a little short of having it full 3x (like 280 ranks or so). I also hunted w/ a wizard spellup almost all the time. But i also never even bothered stance dancing or anything as I was untouchable with that setup.

the 5 ranks of transformation lore also pick you up for the 2 UAF from dragonclaw, 2% disarm chance from dragonclaw, 4% resistance bonus from meditate so you get a lot of little bonuses for the 5 ranks (also if you bump it to 6 that's the next break point for both dragonclaw and meditate), I'm a fan of that. I had 5 forever, bumped it to 15 ranks when my level scaling put me in double leather, so i could bump that up to full coverage brig. post cap plan was picking up ~30 ranks of telep and the rest transform.

absolutely work on getting TD boosting things available to you (ensorcelled armor, perfect self for the stat bonus, combat focus) but realize your defense from warding attacks is active, not passive. feint, force projection, dispel, ki focus and punching the punk ass in its stupid finger waggling face, etc. Mstrike also helps here since it's your best "and fuck THIS guy in particular!" button.

[macgyver]

definitely pick up that MoC to 55 ranks and 2x CM. I rushed to 1220/103, caught up the physical skills, then rushed spells again to get 120 around level 60. I also leveled pre-moc updates so I didn't have many other options. The added benefit of being spell heavy is an (even more) reliable 1207 and 1219. I definitely noticed 1207 become less reliable after skipping 1200s for a while, i eventually went up to 1235.

I didn't pick up tripling dodge until well into the 80s / 90s, I capped a little short of having it full 3x (like 280 ranks or so). I also hunted w/ a wizard spellup almost all the time. But i also never even bothered stance dancing or anything as I was untouchable with that setup.

the 5 ranks of transformation lore also pick you up for the 2 UAF from dragonclaw, 2% disarm chance from dragonclaw, 4% resistance bonus from meditate so you get a lot of little bonuses for the 5 ranks (also if you bump it to 6 that's the next break point for both dragonclaw and meditate), I'm a fan of that. I had 5 forever, bumped it to 15 ranks when my level scaling put me in double leather, so i could bump that up to full coverage brig. post cap plan was picking up ~30 ranks of telep and the rest transform.

absolutely work on getting TD boosting things available to you (ensorcelled armor, perfect self for the stat bonus, combat focus) but realize your defense from warding attacks is active, not passive. feint, force projection, dispel, ki focus and punching the punk ass in its stupid finger waggling face, etc. Mstrike also helps here since it's your best "and fuck THIS guy in particular!" button.

My only question here is, which race and if the shorter variety did the lack of head punches really nerf your kill rate?

[Silvanostar]

stuff

Thoughts?

this is what my monk looks like at 31


Two Weapon Combat..................| 74 16
Combat Maneuvers...................| 166 66
Brawling...........................| 166 66
Ambush.............................| 58 12
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 124 32
Physical Fitness...................| 166 66
Dodging............................| 166 66
Harness Power......................| 93 21
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 70 15

Spell Lists
Minor Mental.......................| 20


2x in cm is such a big boost. i went 3 in surge/burst, 5 in perfect self, and 2 in punch. i'm going to hold off on 100s until i hit 40 since blues are easy to get and with dreavenings, ds isnt an issue.

[Donquix]

this is what my monk looks like at 31


Two Weapon Combat..................| 74 16
Combat Maneuvers...................| 166 66
Brawling...........................| 166 66
Ambush.............................| 58 12
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 124 32
Physical Fitness...................| 166 66
Dodging............................| 166 66
Harness Power......................| 93 21
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 70 15

Spell Lists
Minor Mental.......................| 20


2x in cm is such a big boost. i went 3 in surge/burst, 5 in perfect self, and 2 in punch. i'm going to hold off on 100s until i hit 40 since blues are easy to get and with dreavenings, ds isnt an issue.

Going down the 100's really has nothing to do with 101/107. I mean it's nice to be self-reliant but they're so trivial to get, doesn't matter. all about dat 120 life though. I did the same, and powered through the 100's starting around 40 so end up getting 120 right around 60. My general way to think about it was, by the time a warrior would be getting full plate, i wanted to be have 120.

Getting feint at some point in the near future would be nice too, it really is pretty helpful even if there is some overlap with 1207 in practice. Or focus, for similar reasons to rushing for 120.

[TheLastRowmi]

Out of curiosity, which of you veteran monk experts think the best society for monk is?

I've always been in Sunfist and I use the sigils constantly to good effect. I've always wanted to try Voln though.

[Donquix]

I've always been in Sunfist and I use the sigils constantly to good effect. I've always wanted to try Voln though.

I did voln. New voln is really nice. The extra few TD i'd get from sunfist would be nice, as would HCW on mstrike. But seeking is just so damn convenient! Transcendence is really nice as well.

much like every other semi (which monks basically are), every society works pretty well for us I don't think you can really go wrong. I know it's cliche to say "pick based on RP" but honestly with monks, it's true. It makes so little difference. If you don't care as much RP...do you want to warcamp? do you want the convenience of seeking and never having to end a hunt early because you have no bless? do you want to want to not have to worry at all about your society skill upkeep and just get a ton of AS/DS/TD for basically free until the society is eventually nerfed in the near (by simu standards, so maybe a decade) future? sunfist, voln, col...respectively.

[Alashir]

I've gone voln and will continue to do so until I manage to bane my gloves.

Everything with my training is still going great. Can't wait to grab 120 so I can start working on cm and moc. Those ranks should come quickly without any spells to train.

[Silvanostar]

unfortunately, my monk is f2p so i won't be using any society skills. am i missing something about 120? i know its 15 ds/20 td, but why is it a big goal?

[macgyver]

You can unlock all society skills through the simustore. It's like 250 coins per month; couple bucks if you buy in bulk.

[Alashir]

unfortunately, my monk is f2p so i won't be using any society skills. am i missing something about 120? i know its 15 ds/20 td, but why is it a big goal?

The older your monk gets the more of an issue td is. Personally I've been shooting to grab it as soon as possible so I can start the fun stuff with cm and moc. If I could do it over again I probably wouldn't shoot for barrier so fast as my defense is off the charts with or without it.

[macgyver]

The older your monk gets the more of an issue td is. Personally I've been shooting to grab it as soon as possible so I can start the fun stuff with cm and moc. If I could do it over again I probably wouldn't shoot for barrier so fast as my defense is off the charts with or without it.

I heard things don't get too unbearable until you hit 60ish or so.

[Alashir]

Thought I'd check in now that I've hit 40 and show you guys where my training/skills/stats are at.

Rort (at level 40), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 5 1
Combat Maneuvers...................| 140 40
Brawling...........................| 184 84
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 96 22
Physical Fitness...................| 182 82
Dodging............................| 182 82
Harness Power......................| 140 40
Perception.........................| 140 40
Climbing...........................| 105 25
Swimming...........................| 105 25

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 20

Spell Lists
Minor Mental.......................| 20

Name: Rort Race: Halfling Profession: Monk (shown as: Wandering Mystic)
Gender: Male Age: 0 Expr: 1730350 Level: 40
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 100 (10) ... 106 (13)
Constitution (CON): 90 (30) ... 96 (33)
Dexterity (DEX): 85 (32) ... 91 (35)
Agility (AGI): 100 (35) ... 106 (38)
Discipline (DIS): 76 (8) ... 82 (11)
Aura (AUR): 79 (9) ... 85 (12)
Logic (LOG): 98 (29) ... 104 (32)
Intuition (INT): 50 (10) ... 56 (13)
Wisdom (WIS): 79 (14) ... 85 (17)
Influence (INF): 37 (-11) ... 43 (-8)
Mana: 121 Silver: 2,431

---------------------------

DS in offensive self spelled with wizard and a statue:

A krolvin corsair swings a plain steel cutlass at you!
AS: +254 vs DS: +365 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +91 = +10
A clean miss.

-------------------------------------------------
My UAF in offensive self-spelled with wizard strength

You attempt to grapple a krolvin slaver!
You have excellent positioning against a krolvin slaver.
UAF: 315 vs UDF: 227 = 1.387 * MM: 108 + d100: 59 = 208
... and hit for 49 points of damage!
A sharp vicious twist snaps the krolvin slaver's neck!
The krolvin slaver's body goes stiff and cold as he dies.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

----------------------------------

This is my current cman training:

Rort, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Surge of Strength surge 3
Burst of Swiftness burst 3
Perfect Self perfectself 3

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 4

------------------------------------------------

Once I maxed out spells (20 ranks in both minor spiritual and minor mental) my new goal is to obviously start upping my offensive/physical capabilities. As of right now I'm able to double brawling, dodging, and pf. I'm singling cm, hp, and perception. I can get 11 ranks each level of moc until I become fully singled in that as well. From it's deciding which benchmarks I want to hit in MoC versus stacking on extra CM/dodge.

By virtue of using weapons that can't be disarmed, I was able to swarm hisskra with zero chance of ever dying and rake in the cash. The vast majority of my hunts ended due to being overencumbered from boxes. I've a locker full of items that need sung to. Similarly I'm currently wiping the floor with krolvin slavers/corsairs who can be very deadly, but they have very little chance as a result of how many stuns and knockdowns they're hit with so quickly.

I think this is a build that's probably a little bit slower early on but you're essentially invincible and rapidly accrue strength once you finish getting spells at 38. I'm very happy with how everything has worked out thus far and I can't wait to gain a few more levels and start crushing some really challenging critters.

[Donquix]

I don't think you need to be full 1x in HP. I .5xed and mana was rarely if ever a problem. I was voln though, you may have more mana constraints.

I would personally stop training HP, MoC to 30 ranks, then get CM to 2x. With another 40 CM points you can finish pself, pick up your martial mastery of choice (which will be a BIG benefit), and have some leftover to start picking up a martial stance or, if you're concerned about having a disable and running out of mana, start working on feint. You could also maybe go MoC all the way to 55 ranks but man, i like those cmans.

[TheLastRowmi]

I like it. I wish MoC was a thing when I was levelling. C'est la vie.

[Alashir]

I don't think you need to be full 1x in HP. I .5xed and mana was rarely if ever a problem. I was voln though, you may have more mana constraints.

I would personally stop training HP, MoC to 30 ranks, then get CM to 2x. With another 40 CM points you can finish pself, pick up your martial mastery of choice (which will be a BIG benefit), and have some leftover to start picking up a martial stance or, if you're concerned about having a disable and running out of mana, start working on feint. You could also maybe go MoC all the way to 55 ranks but man, i like those cmans.

What are the arguments for the various martial masterys?

[TheLastRowmi]

What are the arguments for the various martial masterys?

I used Krynch for a long while, but I imagine mstrike with free jabs devalues it some. I now use Slippery Mind because of all the aforementioned TD problems. It saves my butt a lot.

[Donquix]

Punch is the most popular for a lot of reasons. For one it's just plain a holdover from before the RT adjustments (when grapple and kick lowered a second), before that punch was CLEARLY the best per time spent doing stuff. But, it's still "good enough" to kill things, so there's no reason to spend the extra RT kicking in most people's (mine included) estimation. Kick might be interesting if you were like, REALLY focusing on reim or some other hunting that precluded you from crit killing. Because then you could mstrike kick to pump out the raw damage per second on those things. But punch gets the job done, and is fast. I kinda wanna try fucking around with grapple more but, punch gets the job done. If i was short race I would do grapple, only because of the hilarious mental image of a halfling/gnome jumping all over things and hugging them to death.

By focusing on punch you can also spend the silvers on good gloves, which are more plentiful than good boots (not there there's a plethora of fun things for either, looking disappointedly at you again 2016 auction) and reap the benefit of that purchase when you're jabbing which...you're always going to jab so, why not get that benefit? (unfortunately punch mastery does not help with jab). The most obvious choice for a mid-high end gear investment for a monk killing living things being the 6x greater fire flaring from duskruin, realtively easy to get and the spam once you get mstrike rocking is fun.

I'd honestly prioritize getting at least up to rank 2 in whatever mastery you choose before finishing perfect self. Perfect self is awesome, don't get me wrong, but the diminished returns from point investment for the high ranks don't outpace the immediate return of 15 MM / 15% tier up chance you'll get from mastery which will make a BIG difference.

[Donquix]

oh yeah, if you meant stance same as rowmi. krynch at your level for sure, at cap I still use it and honestly i don't notice the TD that much, but really all i do is hunt spell tanked in reim if i play the monk lately so meh. I'd planned on switching to slippery mind as well (which i still think shouldn't be a martial, humbug!) but krynch is replaced a bit by mstrike (but starting with a tier 3 mstrike instead of tiering up to it mid-mstrike is still REALLLY nice), and also I'm a big fan of picking up ki-focus so that further takes away the dependence on krynch.

i know githros really likes asp, i don't love that idea but haven't tried it personally so <shrug>

[TheLastRowmi]

And yeah if you meant mastery, definitely go punch, no contest. Unless you want to grapple or kick for RP reasons.

[TheLastRowmi]

Also agreed, get a mastery before perfect self. I would suggest getting it first, in fact.

[Donquix]

Also agreed, get a mastery before perfect self. I would suggest getting it first, in fact.

but perfect self stats. So much epeen!

[Androidpk]

Grab a good THW and use stange of the mongoose.

[drauz]

Grab a good THW and use stange of the mongoose.

http://68.media.tumblr.com/0b684fec86258041ed0edf96b15bd2e2/tumblr_mve5ngI3Xo1qz8x31o1_500.gif

[Alashir]

Punch is the most popular for a lot of reasons. For one it's just plain a holdover from before the RT adjustments (when grapple and kick lowered a second), before that punch was CLEARLY the best per time spent doing stuff. But, it's still "good enough" to kill things, so there's no reason to spend the extra RT kicking in most people's (mine included) estimation. Kick might be interesting if you were like, REALLY focusing on reim or some other hunting that precluded you from crit killing. Because then you could mstrike kick to pump out the raw damage per second on those things. But punch gets the job done, and is fast. I kinda wanna try fucking around with grapple more but, punch gets the job done. If i was short race I would do grapple, only because of the hilarious mental image of a halfling/gnome jumping all over things and hugging them to death.

By focusing on punch you can also spend the silvers on good gloves, which are more plentiful than good boots (not there there's a plethora of fun things for either, looking disappointedly at you again 2016 auction) and reap the benefit of that purchase when you're jabbing which...you're always going to jab so, why not get that benefit? (unfortunately punch mastery does not help with jab). The most obvious choice for a mid-high end gear investment for a monk killing living things being the 6x greater fire flaring from duskruin, realtively easy to get and the spam once you get mstrike rocking is fun.

I'd honestly prioritize getting at least up to rank 2 in whatever mastery you choose before finishing perfect self. Perfect self is awesome, don't get me wrong, but the diminished returns from point investment for the high ranks don't outpace the immediate return of 15 MM / 15% tier up chance you'll get from mastery which will make a BIG difference.

For what it's worth my tier 3 attack is grapple (although I've never looked at it from the perspective of "hugging them to death" which I love. I'll prioritize mastery as you suggested before finishing off perfect self.

As far as attacking goes, because we get so many stuns/throws/knockdowns by virtue of UAC, I've simply prioritized enchanting my gloves/boots and gone the voln route in order to maximize the amount of critters I can take on.

Thanks again for the advice.

-Rort