ARMOR maneuvers

[macgyver]

So, just realized we also get Armor maneuvers. If spending only 100 armor points; what should I pick first (mandatory)?

[Donut]

as many ranks of support as you can get.

[Ulkov]

Yea, I at first went for reinforcement (kind of pointless with redux and not at all in demand) but quickly discovered support is the way to go. Aside from being in demand as a service, the encumbrance knock off seems to aid greatly behind the scenes with maneuver related attacks and defenses.

[Archigeek]

Most of us go with support, and when we have the ranks we pick up slash/puncture/crush protection, largely depending on where we hunt. Of course, you could get those from someone else, so if you have easy access to your choice of protection type, you could put the extra points into something else. Worth noting: you can't get enough points to max out support AND one of the aforementioned protections; you'll have to choose.

[Enuch]

what is the max one get? If you maxed support how many ranks of say puncture could you get?

[Archigeek]

what is the max one get? If you maxed support how many ranks of say puncture could you get?

I know that you can get 5 ranks of puncture and 4 of support. That's what I did, (except slash). The other way should work too, with 5 ranks support and 4 puncture, but keep in mind that your fittings will be limited at 4 ranks. I don't think you'll be able to get masterful fittings, and if you can, your use will be a little less.

[Roblar]

I know that you can get 5 ranks of puncture and 4 of support. That's what I did, (except slash). The other way should work too, with 5 ranks support and 4 puncture, but keep in mind that your fittings will be limited at 4 ranks. I don't think you'll be able to get masterful fittings, and if you can, your use will be a little less.


That would require 310 armor ranks (enhancives don't help)

Max is 5 specialization (200 ranks), 3 support (75) or reinforcement (90)

[Carsyn]

I still get reinforcement. I like taking a beating and only having some minors alot of times. I'm a giant too so my carrying capacity is good with lightweight gear. Just my two cents.

[jumbodog]

Not a very high level (mid 20s) but I'm sticking with reinforcement. I do a lot of warcamp solo hunting, so being able to reduce crits is really important for me. Support is nice, but staying alive is better than running not running back to town due to the load and being dead. Especially at this point being only in chain and as a two-hander I get hit... a lot. The reinforcement is sometimes the difference (in completely non-scientific testing) between making it out alive, and getting completely eaten in a warcamp. Being as I live in River's Rest, there's not always a cleric around so staying alive is of huge importance. I will always take the run back to town before being fried to unload option over dying with no raise/chrism.

That said, I'll certainly have the chance to fixskill once redux kicks in. But before having that benefit, reinforcement is a nice buff IMHO.

[Ososis]

The issue with reinforcement is it only gives a 1/3 chance to be effective at MAX ranks, and only IF the wound is a same level wound on the exact place you already have one. It really doesn't make a huge defensive difference. if you have 5 rank one wounds on your body, there is 2/3 chance the attack will miss a wound already, then a 2/3 chance the reinforcement will fail , not even factoring in un-like wounds.

With 0 wounds reinforcement will provide 0%
With 5 wounds it will provide 11%
With full body wounds everywhere it is still only 33%

And these numbers only get worse.

[Carsyn]

I'm still on the side of better defense over how often I have to type ";sloot sell".

Am I misunderstanding armor support? If you're already un-encumbered, does it provide additional manuever benefit? If not, and you don't become encumbered easily (a giant with lightweight gear for example), I don't see the benefit of increasing carry capacity over better defense, even if the benefit is small, which I agree. But armor support is small if you consider maximum increase is 35lbs if you have five ranks and if you wear plate. That's the difference of 1-2 chests.

[Ososis]

Honestly the big decider for me is that everybody WANTS support. I make friends and allies by offering support to the masses, and usually get a full spell up because of it. It may not help you a huge amount, but it might help that cranky wizard a hell of a lot, and then he rains his golden magic showers down upon ye in gratitude. People seek me out, send me thoughts, give me gifts, and look out for my corpse because they know me from offering armor support.

I understand the "bit of defense is better than unneeded carry capacity", which is true, but I contend that the community goodwill of offering armor support is an even better defense.

[Donquix]

I'm still on the side of better defense over how often I have to type ";sloot sell".

Am I misunderstanding armor support? If you're already un-encumbered, does it provide additional manuever benefit? If not, and you don't become encumbered easily (a giant with lightweight gear for example), I don't see the benefit of increasing carry capacity over better defense, even if the benefit is small, which I agree. But armor support is small if you consider maximum increase is 35lbs if you have five ranks and if you wear plate. That's the difference of 1-2 chests.

not all hunting grounds are as convenient to leave. For the most part sure, when you're in the sub-50 range and you're a 5 second ;go2 away from town...who gives a shit. But once you start hunting places that have annoying entrances / exits (confluence, rift, maaghara, broken lands, etc. etc.) support makes a difference. In the grand scheme sure, it's just a box here or there who cares. But as others mentioned, much more desirable for every other class so it can help you win friends and influence people. (of course support is pretty trivial to get, but whatevs)

[jumbodog]

Okay. Maybe support is better. The last couple of days I've had terrible luck in warcamps, so I've been regular hunting...

From last night and this morning: I uphunt as most warriors in their 20s do. I got three boxes on three kills... Swing one more time, 9 second RT... ugh... Killed one last critter, barely, because I got swarmed. Went home, unloaded, went back to hunt. 4 kills, 2 more boxes, and one level of exuberance to high to make swinging effective. Back to town. No more locker space. Get my pocket rogue and pick the boxes.

Hell of a way to spend twenty minutes gifting. I guess I need more black crystals in my life.... Or armor support. Or both.

It's situational, of course. In a warcamp that 7% too not change the rank 1 to a rank 2 can mean life vs. death. But I get a ton of loot normal hunting due to the level offset and often being grouped, and in river's rest where hunting is more lucrative anyway. Damned if I do, damned if I don't it seems.

Currently in hauberk, so decent protection. 3x armor as a two handed guy.

I don't necessarily make a lot of friends with support in RR because there aren't a lot of friends to be made.

[khorpulent]

I did up to rank 4 in resistance (I did crush, but no one else ever seems to) and got two or three support ranks with the leftover points. If I recall correctly rank 4 in resistance will let you do heavy padding. I figure that I can usually find other warriors to give me support, but it's harder to find someone to add fittings to your armor. And when I can't find another warrior, 2 or 3 ranks of support is usually good enough.

Slash and puncture seem to be the most popular, but I was pretty pleased with crush pre-cap. Crush is the most likely damage type done by weapons that will actually hurt you (two handers, some polarms, falchions, handaxes). A lot of pre-cap critters have crushing maneuvers, too, especially the bowels (nice against stone fist!). I always kind of meant to change it to something else when I hit cap but never got around to it.

[Ososis]

While reinforcement is obviously SOME defense, I think people over sell it. claiming it is the difference between life and death is both unprovable and statistically improbable. You can't see when reinforcement helps so most people crunch the numbers and see the numbers are poor.

[Beniah]

bumping this....what seems to be the most requested between crush, slash and puncture by non-warriors?

[Gelston]

I'd go with puncture. I've never seen anyone else looking for anything else, although as I do puncture so I may not be paying attention to other ones when asked for.

[Ososis]

Fuck you for bumping this.

[Gelston]

Fuck you for bumping this.

Stop whining. It is a legitimate question.

[Beniah]

Fuck you for bumping this.

Because Macgayver? If so, funny since I hesitated bumping because of that.

Dude came back a little before me and it didn't take long for me to try and avoid his posts.

If not, then fuck you too! Got five ranks in support and don't know what the hell to do with my armor ranks!

Things have changed a lot from GS3. Plus I'm old now so I don't remember half of what I read.

[Roblar]

Depends where/what you hunt.

For rift hunters definitely slash because otherwise you will die, often, to rift crawler burrows regardless what plane you are on but mostly for plane four capped hunting. It also aids against bandit tripwires across most levels from bounties. It aids in alot of other often seen melee swings but generally redux and plate brush it off (and if you use a shield) and they're not as important or deadly as that crawler maneuver.

If you hunt in Nelemar or other polearm using creatures, puncture is great. If you use a shield, are in plate, then it isn't really worth it for just ranged attacks (they are weak).

I hear crush is nice in the Bowels.

[Gelston]

If you hunt in Nelemar or other polearm using creatures, puncture is great. If you use a shield, are in plate, then it isn't really worth it for just ranged attacks (they are weak).


He said for non warriors though! Other than pallies and rogues, who else is in plate?

[Jeril]

As stated it depends on where you are. People who hunt Nelemar want puncture and people who hunt the rift want slash. Crush is good for the bowels but as it is not a capped hunting area not many really worry about it.

[Roblar]

He said for non warriors though! Other than pallies and rogues, who else is in plate?

Ah true, I went off the folder.

But what Jeril said! Puncture becomes more valuable for those sissies stuck by long darts, I guess.

[Beniah]

Yeah don't feel like I need at at this point (almost 60). Thinking more as a service to others. I can always switch down the road.