Training path

[wetsand]

I need some help with input before I make any changes. Here are my current skills:


Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 210 110
Combat Maneuvers...................| 151 51
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 202 102
Physical Fitness...................| 151 51
Dodging............................| 108 26
Harness Power......................| 149 49
Spirit Mana Control................| 102 24
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 140 40
Perception.........................| 20 4
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 5 1

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 11

Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 40

I have a loose idea of where I see this character, OHB/OHE and tower shield. I've done some reading and it looks like I can drop all dodge if i'm going to use a tower shield. Playing around with skills, I can 2x OHB/OHE, 2x Shield, 1x cman, 1x PF, 30 ranks of Ambush, 1x Perception. I don't really envision this character utilizing 1640 more than once a day, so dropping the religion lore. I will have to drop about 4 spells (111 to 107) for this training path. To free up more points I need to drop armor use down to 100. Which will put me in augmented breastplate (or should I drop down to 80 and use a metal breastplate?). Any help or input is greatly appreciated, this is my first time playing a paladin. I mostly plan on hunting undead but not exclusive.

[wetsand]

2x OHB
2x Shield
100 ranks in Armor use
1x cman
30 ranks in MoC
30 ranks in Ambush
1x PF
1x HP
24 ranks in SMC
1x Spells (40 Paladin, 11 Minor Spiritual)
20 ranks in Climbing
1x in Perception

I can add 20 ranks in Swimming and 5 more ranks in MoC, with a few points left over. Am I missing anything?

[Tgo01]

It looks good to me. Granted my paladin isn't that high of a level yet but nothing jumps out at me as being lacking.

Although I think most people stop at 20 ranks of ambushing for open aiming if you wanted to free up some points there, but it's not really a huge deal.

[wetsand]

It looks good to me. Granted my paladin isn't that high of a level yet but nothing jumps out at me as being lacking.

Although I think most people stop at 20 ranks of ambushing for open aiming if you wanted to free up some points there, but it's not really a huge deal.

I thought I read somewhere 30 ranks was the go to. Is 20 ranks enough to not get the dreaded "failed to find an opening for your strike"? Open aim ambush; adds phantom critical ranks right? Since I dropped all my lore, should I reinvest the free points into a lore? What's your thoughts on 30 vs 35 MoC? (hitting 4 open sounds nice but 2 focused hits is great) I greatly appreciate the input.

[wetsand]

I can't decide on OHB or OHE. Decent OHB's seem to be harder to come by, while there are tons of OHE's available. I guess my only hang up on blunt vs edged is hunting undead that are resistant to puncture. But handaxes mitigate this concern since they only slash and crush. Too many choices. Would Paladin bonding to a crit weighted weapon be better than damage weighted? UGH! I know I'm overthinking this but I can't help it.

[Tgo01]

I went polearm for my paladin because paladins can get some high AS later down the road. Plus once you're bonded to the weapon you get plasma flares which can flare twice sometimes.

It's pretty nice.

You lose out on a lot of defense but so far my paladin hasn't had any problems.

I can't say for sure if OHB or OHE is better. My warrior went OHB and uses a morning star and does quite well with it.

Also you could be right on the 30 ranks of ambushing thing.

[Donquix]

ambush training is kind of a shifting target for open aiming. your skill bonus of both CM and ambush affect it, which is why the first 10-20 ranks are so effective. It also makes a difference depending weapon as the larger weapons are harder to aim, and since your CM skill you're already training helps as you get higher level the ambush training needed to get the reliability you want with aiming becomes less and less.

So you might need 30-40 ranks for aiming a lance at level 50, but 20 or less at level 80. Or fewer ranks, or none at all, for aiming a smaller weapon. Then of course your stats help as well, so race matters.

I always liked the advice of did you miss enough for it to be annoying? add a rank. repeat until it's not annoying for you. Do you never miss an annoying amount with current training? Back off a point and let it mitigate or just leave it cause it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme.

tl;dr - you get a lot of different answers for ambush since people give advice with experience ranging from a fatass level 20 giant with a lance to a level 100 halfling with a shortsword.

[kutter]

From what I have discerned there seem to be two schools of thought on Paladins, either the uber tank or the wrecking crew.

Right now you like more like wrecking crew, although all your spells limit that some since you have no MoC and nearly no perception, do you have an issue with maneuver based attacks?

The other build you seem to be wanting to go to is more of a tank, a Paladin with a shield is a scary thing, able to defend so well it seems nothing hits, having said that, if I was going the tank route, I would want full plate, otherwise, what is the point.

You plan on a little more HP than I have, I assume you cast a fair amount when you hunt and need that large pool? At 48 trains I think I am at 40, admittedly I can not spam 1630 all the time, but it does not seem too necessary, it is however pretty effective when immediately followed by an mstrike naginata attack.

But that is just my .02, my Paladin hunts with a cleric so he does not need to be a tank. I stopped at 35 Paladin spells and 03 Spirit, trying to get lores up some and it is so rare that someone needs a raise from a Paladin, it does not seem worth the extra 5 spell ranks to get it, at least right now for me. I have never trained him in ambush, guess just did not seem much point when using a polearm

[Erous]

(this is a long read sorry) I'm retiring for a bit and giving my 2 pennies.

If you're one handing it, ambush to 24 ranks is the sweet spot. It's expensive as hell, but once you get there, your aims for limbs, necks, head, etc. become trivial. I'd assume as a one handed pally, you're more than likely a sturdier race. My pally's a dwarf and he's been an OHB/Shield beast mode tank. You can sit in offensive and knock foes down with ambush, then crit their face. Now, as a sturdier race I'm also limited due to DEX/AGI requirements for larger weapons, like lances. But, I recently switched to a naginata and love it, but as a pole wielding dwarf (lol) I get hit a lot more.

As a one handed/shield, you want the following at minimum

2x weapon
2x shield
1x MOC or more (see below)
1x PF (2x just isn't worth it imo due to vigor)
1x spells
1x perception
Climbing and swimming to 30 to start then you can taper off
Religion lore to 25 to force kneel for 1615 and 1630
2x Armor at least (you'll mix and match additional armor ranks as you have points)
Mix and match harness power, there are times you can do it and times you can't

MoC has key milestones. Like 30 MoC (end state goal should be 55) is a sweet spot I pushed for early on and sacrificed some other areas, like getting to full plate. Full plate is the end all, but a really nice MBP will also do you well for a long time. If you balance your training right, you can sit in MBP for a long time.

I also went heavy on spells and sacrificed perception early on for this and for lores. This was a trade off. It wasn't until I was 60 that I was able to get back to 1x perception and I sort of regretted that in the long run. If you decide to go heavy spells and mana control for 1640, you need to work around some training periods where you skip some stuff to accommodate. If you're RPing a hero, 1640 is awesome to have, but you'll find that a lot of people want a chrism and your 1640 push may or may not have been worth it. If you want to go spells, I highly recommend paladin to 1635 then minor spiritual to 120. Getting lesser shroud as a one hand/shield paladin makes you nearly invincible and in my opinion is worth getting as quickly as possible.

[wetsand]

Thank you all for the input. I'm playing a human, AGIDEX is just okayish. I currently have 5 ranks of feint and 2 ranks of surge. Once I switch to one handed/shield I do plan on shield bash and shield focus plus spikemastery. I will be using a spiked tower shield. I have considered dropping Paladin spells down to 1635 and picking up more MnS.

[Nairdin]

Agreed, 24 ranks of ambush is he sweet spot for open ambush with a one hander. For paladin training type on the right path. Set goals. MBP is overrated. Its a shit ton of hinderance for plate coverage on your chest. Get some Hauberk and a cheap crit padded greathelm. With 90 ranks armor use and fluidity level 3, you can mitigate most of the hinderance. Try hunting with 1614 as a set up instead of 1615/1630 and ambushing is never an issue. Getting to 20 ranks spirit spells and 35 paladin is key. Once you can cast 120 you're set for ds. 1617 is fun but way unnecessary. 1609 with 65 ranks blessings lore and a tower shield(2x shield use) gives a block chance of like 35-40% to outright block. Insane. Casting 1614 as a set up and having 120 will eliminate the need for feint. Cast 1614, ambush head, search, repeat. That will free up can points and get more surge of strength and wspec. You want your Strength as high as possible. Period(main stat).
Shield bash is also useless for you offensively. Get the minimum for reactive shield spikes and forget you have it. Seriously 1614 and ambush is all you ever need if you have the lore ranks to make it effective. (65/30/15 at cap) tower shield mastery and prop up are a must. For things like MoC, set a goal, hit it then move on to the next skill you want to meet a threshold (like 35 ranks moc, 24 ranks spirit mana control, etc. And make sure you're training key skills each level.

[macgyver]

Agreed, 24 ranks of ambush is he sweet spot for open ambush with a one hander. For paladin training type on the right path. Set goals. MBP is overrated. Its a shit ton of hinderance for plate coverage on your chest. Get some Hauberk and a cheap crit padded greathelm. With 90 ranks armor use and fluidity level 3, you can mitigate most of the hinderance. Try hunting with 1614 as a set up instead of 1615/1630 and ambushing is never an issue. Getting to 20 ranks spirit spells and 35 paladin is key. Once you can cast 120 you're set for ds. 1617 is fun but way unnecessary. 1609 with 65 ranks blessings lore and a tower shield(2x shield use) gives a block chance of like 35-40% to outright block. Insane. Casting 1614 as a set up and having 120 will eliminate the need for feint. Cast 1614, ambush head, search, repeat. That will free up can points and get more surge of strength and wspec. You want your Strength as high as possible. Period(main stat).
Shield bash is also useless for you offensively. Get the minimum for reactive shield spikes and forget you have it. Seriously 1614 and ambush is all you ever need if you have the lore ranks to make it effective. (65/30/15 at cap) tower shield mastery and prop up are a must. For things like MoC, set a goal, hit it then move on to the next skill you want to meet a threshold (like 35 ranks moc, 24 ranks spirit mana control, etc. And make sure you're training key skills each level.

It's plate coverage on the chest but it uses the plate divisor all around and the plate CvA.