506 - Return to Lands CHANGED!

[Headless]

I need to know about the AIR ranks related to reducing RT, what RT it now applies to other than combat. Because now it doesn't do what it used to, it only works for swinging. That sucks in itself but I am not getting the extra -1 either from my Air Lore ranks! My character is a Claid wielding Wizard. If I cannot get the -RT I will go with Earth Ranks to get the STR bonus.
Whatever differences are implemented are not written into the spells lists on the play.net boards. I don't even see the forums today which is why I'm coming here for the answers.

[Tgo01]

https://gswiki.play.net/Celerity_(506)

[Headless]

thanks haha
I just googled it again and found the same, came back to say
'wonder why i didnt find it last time'
then you post a link
now can you help me find how to delete a whole post
thank you

[Headless]

Unfortunately it's not really answering the question I want to know though it discusses warmages. They say a 40% max reduction (meaning you get 60% less RT). But I'm not sure how it applies- no discussion of Air Lore or swinging, it says 'warmages took a DEFENSIVE hit'. I have like 24 ranks of Air on my wizard and his RT reduction on his claidhmore is -2. I don't think it's going to change with more Air lore. That's a +4 to STR/AS if I switch the Lore ranks to Earth, not to mention encumbrance, climbing, etc. So I'm looking to go that route.

Swinging a claid in 4 seconds is not bad. I would have trained it to 1 or 2 but 4 is decent if I have to hunt all the way up to cap with it that way. My Halfling used to swing at 1 sec in the OTF when his encumbrance was not weighing him down.

But looking at 535...holy crap! That might be good...

[Tgo01]

The old Haste/506 was basically converted to quickstrike, in a sense. So as a warmage you use Quickstrike to reduce your swing RTs and you use the new 506/Celerity to reduce the stamina cost and reduce the swing RTs even more.

You can use the "Air Lore Training Tables" towards the middle of the page to see how much ranks of air lore you would need to reach a 1 second RT and a 0 stamina cost. So since claids have an 8 second base RT you would need 124 ranks of air lore to swing in 1 second with a 0 stamina cost using quickstrike.

Unless I'm just totally misunderstanding what you're asking :p

[Viekn]

still trying to learn how to delete a whole post

You can't. Just edit your original post, delete everything you wrote, and just put a period or say "nevermind, figured it out". Best you can do.

[Headless]

"As the war mage gains ranks in Major Elemental Circle and Elemental Lore, Air, roundtimes will continue to reduce, allowing the war mage to wield larger weapons in a shorter roundtime. Gaining 27 ranks in Major Elemental Circle and 24 ranks of Elemental Lore, Air will drop a war mage's 5 second attack RT to 1 second, rather than 2 seconds, effectively doubling his or her attack speed."
I'm confused without the particulars but...supposed will continue with the Air path for now. I like the AS increase of Earth, though. It's seductive. The RT reduction is better-- irresistable if I can swing in 1-2 secs.
updating-- wonder how outdated their info is .... " Celerity (506)

50 ranks of Air Lore unlocks a group version using EVOKE. ..."

NO mention of RT reduction with Air Ranks. I get a hard -2 with 24 ranks of Air so far, that's all. The info contradicts itself here.

[Headless]

Got it, thank you Viekn

[Gnomad]

"As the war mage gains ranks in Major Elemental Circle and Elemental Lore, Air, roundtimes will continue to reduce, allowing the war mage to wield larger weapons in a shorter roundtime. Gaining 27 ranks in Major Elemental Circle and 24 ranks of Elemental Lore, Air will drop a war mage's 5 second attack RT to 1 second, rather than 2 seconds, effectively doubling his or her attack speed."
I'm confused without the particulars but...supposed will continue with the Air path for now. I like the AS increase of Earth, though. It's seductive. The RT reduction is better-- irresistable if I can swing in 1-2 secs.
updating-- wonder how outdated their info is .... " Celerity (506)

50 ranks of Air Lore unlocks a group version using EVOKE. ..."

NO mention of RT reduction with Air Ranks. I get a hard -2 with 24 ranks of Air so far, that's all. The info contradicts itself here.People are telling you to read about quickstrike for a reason. Go read about quickstrike. It's essential to understanding how Celerity works now. Anyone can use quickstrike, not just wizards. It lets you spend stamina to swing faster. The heavier your weapon, the more stamina it costs.

The formulas are all right there, but I'll write out an explanation all the same.

For most classes to get -1 RT with a claidh, they have to spend base 10 (base cost) + 8 (claidh base rt) * 1.5 (two-hander tax) = 22 stamina. For -2 RT, they'd spend 44 stamina. -3 RT costs 66 stamina. Et cetera.

Celerity doesn't reduce your RT directly. It lets you use quickstrike for less stamina than above. Just casting 506 gives you 30 "free" stamina per swing. For a claidh, that's -1 RT, with 8 stamina left over. Each air lore rank gives you another 1 "free" stamina per swing. 24 air lore ranks puts you at 54 "free" stamina, which is enough for -2 RT with 10 left over. (You'll notice that 24 is no longer a "magic" number for 506.) If you did "quickstrike -3 attack goblin" with 24 air lore ranks, you'd expect to pay 66 - 54 "free" = 12 stamina.

But that's not all celerity does. It also decreases the remaining stamina you pay. You start by only paying 50% of the remaining cost. Each MjE rank takes another half percent off (down to a minimum 20%). If you have 20 MjE ranks, then you're only paying 40% of that remaining 12 stamina: 4.8 stamina. I think that truncates to 4 stamina.

So with 24 air lore and 20 MjE, you can swing a claidh at -2 RT for free, or -3 RT for 4 stamina. If you want to swing it at -4 RT, that'd cost (88 - 54)*0.4 = 13.6 => 13 stamina per swing.

And so on.

Plug your numbers into my celerity calculator. It was linked on the wiki page. https://www.desmos.com/calculator/tdon67w1el

[Headless]

I appreciate the link and info. Now I'm starting to get this.
So QUICKSTRIKE is not a 'bought' Cman with Combat Manuever points anymore?
I can use Quickstrike all the time?

I'm seeing the RT for it with everything but this is a new system entirely for me, am still a bit confused.
Is it still common for Warmages to use Air Lore for the QS reason?

[Whirlin]

I appreciate the link and info. Now I'm starting to get this.
So QUICKSTRIKE is not a 'bought' Cman with Combat Manuever points anymore?
I can use Quickstrike all the time?

Correct. At the cost of Stamina, like CMANs


I'm seeing the RT for it with everything but this is a new system entirely for me, am still a bit confused.
Is it still common for Warmages to use Air Lore for the QS reason?
Yes, because 506 will reduce the stamina cost of QS. Already capped out at X RT? More Air Lore training will let you reach X-1 RT with no Stamina Drain.
How much Air Lore? A hell of a lot more variable, but there's tons of resources for that.

[Headless]

Hmm...

Well I went ahead and Fixskilled into an Earth Lore based Mage and the result is a -1 RT reduction for my claid! That's a disappointment but I am not too concerned about it for now. My wizard is just 27 and a 5 sec RT (which will go down to 4 with +1 more DEX or AGI) is not so bad for hunting for the time being. I always wanted to try the Earth Lore route too so it wasn't just the decision about RT's.

I am sure that I will consider going back to Air Lore in the higher levels. It's hard to say where Headless will be when the yearly FS comes around. It would be nice to see the basic RT reduction on a calculator somewhere!

The number of ranks I have right now is 28. It's a +4 to the AS and encumbrance but I noticed something strange happen today which was that an attack was blocked by some form of Stone? It was weird. I don't cast 520 yet. I have a good friend from Plat who used 520 at cap who was an Earth Mage and it was shockingly good.
So maybe the Earth has a defensive edge.

The Qstrike things were draining my Stamina completely with Celerity up. It's still new and confusing but eventually will look into it for the warmage route. 1 sec with 0 Stamina reduction sounds good, I mean-- 1 sec with a claid? Great! That might be better than +15 and some DS capability at cap

Either build is working though. My mage is a Giant and it feels right for the Earth route, whatever the mechanics are.

[Maerit]

If you look at the tables on the Wiki, you can see the air lore requirements to get a THW from your current RT down to 1 second RT. Giants have bad AGI/DEX, which means you have to set your stats poorly for early levels to swing a claid faster.

I don't see anywhere what RT you have when you swing your claid without 506. I assume you're swinging your claid at 6 seconds RT currently because of the last post that said you are reducing the RT by 1 second and swinging your claid in 5 seconds.

So, in order to swing a claid in 1 second (which is the goal of all warmages) you would need 85 ranks of air lore. Clearly that is not possible right now at your train. Something I recommend is to not believe that the claidhmore is the best weapon for all occasions. At your level, I honestly think a good 4x katana would be much better, and you'll swing it much faster. The AS bonus of the katana + the heavy crit weighting will likely equal the power of your claidhmore on top of being able to swing it faster. Until you start fighting creatures with heavier armor, you're not going to notice too much difference, and things will be much easier to hit.

Plus, with Duskruin happening, people are selling 4x katanas for 35k! Saw one go for that last night.

[Headless]

Ooh...katanas for 35k? Hells yeah. That might work. I just like Claidhmores and got a lot of technical kind of stuff from Kenstill. They cause a lot of knockdowns on top of the crit potential and stuns. Stuns galore! It's definitely a personal preference but it's not the only weapon I want to use. I'll pick up a katana, though my entire bank account just went to a suit of ECP armor for him:)
Speaking on that, can you give me some indication of how good/how long INCREDIBLE CHARGES is on a temporary padding?

As far as the swing time, yes- it's a 6 sec RT and I planned Headless well for Stats. He's got the right stuff for his build and level. He'll have a base time of 5 seconds with +1 bonus to AGI or DEX right now. I tried to QS with Celerity at 28 Air Ranks and he lost all his stamina in one swing? Bizarre. It's clunkier with the Earth Lore but he's a bit more defensive and hits slightly harder. It's not much difference in how well he survives or kills, it's just a slower swing time.

I'm stunned right now and came to the boards to discuss 502. Holy @(*. This is like 702 from the old days. It's freakin sweet. That's going to be Headless' main offense when dealing under his level. I'll see how good the DS pushdown is when used on like level hehehehe.

Earth Ranks have some really excellent benefits in several spells relating to Wizards, actually. You get really good defensive bonuses. I'm sure when a 1 sec swing becomes possible, that will take over.