Honest Question about Paladins

[Iqxero]

Something that's just been bugging me between reading these boards and the official WoW boards.

In 99% of the posts I've read on the PC, Paladins are unfair healing/shielding pvp combatants. The fights are long, tough, and the Paladin usually wins.

According to the official boards, paladins have difficulty hunting outside of Elwyn forest, let alone Pvping anybody above level 15.

Are Paladins just a bunch of whiny bitches?

Is the class really broken?

Are the Paladins playing on on the pvp servers just that much better, and don't post on the officials?

I'm just curious, because I haven't seen ANY class that bitches about how broken they are even a tenth of as much as paladins on the officials.

[Edited on 5-27-2005 by Iqxero]

[Trinitis]

Well, in my humble 47 levels of experience as a paladin, this is my take on things.

PvE

In PvE, paladins are very powerful. My paladin alone can manage to pull off 3 heals, sometimes 4 in a fight. Lets not forget this is all at the same time as stunning every 60 seconds, and shielding myself for 10 seconds if things get troublesome. The down side in PvE is the lack of change. All PvE battles go basicly the same. Attack, stun, hit till you need a heal, do so, hit some more, stun, keep pounding, maybe use a seal or two depending on needs. There is little change in a palading hunting system.

PvP.

In PvP a paladin is seriously lacking. In every PvP encounter I've had (non-raid wise) it ends up the same.

I go charging towords them. If they are a caster, they nuke the hell out of me and by the time I get to them, I need to heal. If they are a fighting class, as soon as I get to them I'm stunned/ensared/slowed, and they are kiting me. This is not to say I don't win battles. I've found most rogues who don't know what they are doing, and most hunters reguardless fall to my hammer. But just about every other class in the game owns paladins, hands down.



[Edited on 5-27-2005 by Adredrin]

[Zentoph]

Before a not so recent patch, Paladins were really powerful because a skill of theirs was bugged and allowed them to activate a seal which increased their attack speed and damage..

They basically went from a class that could heal and do the highest amount of damage to being a class that has sub-par heals and sub-par damage.

[Keller]

I used to have a big problem with paladins.

Recently I've been beating them one v one.

I don't know if I'm getting better, they are just bad, or paladins suck as a class.

[Artha]

According to the official boards, paladins have difficulty hunting outside of Elwyn forest, let alone Pvping anybody above level 15.
I can't really speak for the PvP, but hunting has never been a problem, and my paladin's at 40 now.


Are Paladins just a bunch of whiny bitches?
Mostly just the ones who post. I think every class has theirs.


Is the class really broken?
No, but it'd be nice if we could be anything in PvP besides a support class.

[Nieninque]

My druid struggles with Paladins...not because they kill her (although that sometimes happens, but not usually) but because it takes so fucking long do do anything that either (a) some other alliance come along and join in so I get slammed, or (b) I get bored and do something else. :(


Edited because edit != quote

[Edited on 27-5-05 by Nieninque]

[Wezas]

as to sticking inside Elwynn Forest, that's just silly.

By 10 I was already in Westfall smacking down defias. I'm sure not long after I was in Redridge killing whelps.

My Paladin is 48 - and has been for a few months now. I think one of the bigest problems for paladins is they're so F'n boring when it comes to combat.

[Parkbandit]

I never had a problem with a paladin as a shaman. Sure I would lose one here or there, but in the battlefield.. I sought them out because they were one of the easier kills for me.

As a rogue.. I have trouble with them. Their instant heals and that damn shield make it hard for me to kill them. The only time I will ever get them is when they prematurely throw up their shield and then I can usually use my stuns and big shots to put them down.

[SnatchWrangler]

I fought a level 56 one last night on the way to Strath. He healed 3 times, including once for 3,950. I believe I did 9,700 in damage in two minutes, and just barely beat him (had 21% left, and I used a combat potion 700-900 health back, he used a potion as well.)

The fight would have been slightly easier, but a mob got involved and started attacking me, so I vanished, but the thing had some area effect scream and pulled me out right away, but I did shift the bat's aggro to the paladin. Which was good cuz it was attacking him, but it was bad because blind and gouge basically became useless to me.

Anyways...like I said. I barely eeked out a win vs. one 4 levels below me, even though I did three times as much damage to him as he did to me.

[Nieninque]

I killed a paladin with my rogue yesterday...though he was grey to me :blush:

[Parkbandit]

I killed a paladin 3 levels above me last night.

So what he sucked.. so what he prematurely ejaculated his big ass spell shield... so what he tried to outrun me. So what.

A win is a win is a win.

I won. He lost.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I killed a paladin 3 levels above me last night.

So what he sucked.. so what he prematurely ejaculated his big ass spell shield... so what he tried to outrun me. So what.

A win is a win is a win.

I won. He lost.

Paladins were very easy for me until they hit 40-50 range. First, because they can't wear plate yet, 2nd, because I think they pick up their additional healing and shield abilities that they don't have yet.

That's the big thing, one heal and one shield are nothing, it's when they break out that 3rd shield and 3rd near full-heal spell that makes them last so difficult to outlast.

[Nieninque]

they also have some mad mana regen spell/ability (or so it seems) something like innervate for druids.

That's what has screwed me up so often.

[Guerrin]

Paladins for pve? Dunno, apparently their heals and cleanse is useful for instances.

Pvp? Since they fixed the seal BUG paladins have the following strategy:
Run in, hammer of justice, swing,swing, swing, shield, heal, consecrate, heal, shield, blahblahblah, rinse/repeat. Their DPS sucks, they're honestly better off healing a warrior thats charged in.

/sleep

The only thing more boring that playing a paladin, is fighting a paladin. :lol:

[Trinitis]

I'm not sure where or how paladins you guys fight are throwing 2nd and 3rd shields. The shield spell I'm sitting on has a 5 min cooldown. I've *never* had a PVP fight last that long.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Adredrin
I'm not sure where or how paladins you guys fight are throwing 2nd and 3rd shields. The shield spell I'm sitting on has a 5 min cooldown. I've *never* had a PVP fight last that long.

What other skills make paladins immune to attacks? I know there's atleast 2. One is the golden bubble, another they're just immune for 10 or 15 secs. (I thought there was a 2nd bubble, but maybe I'm wrong).

[Trinitis]

There is Devine Shield (the one I use) which makes you immune to all attacks for 10 seconds, and you can do anything during that time.

They also have another, lesser shield that lasts 8 seconds (I think) that you cannot attack while using. But I could have sworn I've checked on this before and 1 shield sets the 5 min timer for ALL shield spells. I'll have to check on this again.

[Odups]

And we have no crazy mana regen ability. Got a Blessing that will give you 30 some mana (few extra if you invest talents) every 5 seconds. A smart paladin will watch their mana, so you might just be seeing ones that actually use it right.

2 main shields, which are both on the same timer. Divine Protection (cheapo 8 second one, no attacking), and Divine Shield (12 seconds, 50% attack speed for the paladin), both protect from physical and spell attacks. There's also a Blessing of Protection that protects from only physical, lasts 10 seconds, and no attacking or physical abilities can be used in it (spells ok).

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Adredrin
There is Devine Shield (the one I use) which makes you immune to all attacks for 10 seconds, and you can do anything during that time.

They also have another, lesser shield that lasts 8 seconds (I think) that you cannot attack while using. But I could have sworn I've checked on this before and 1 shield sets the 5 min timer for ALL shield spells. I'll have to check on this
again.

I'm pretty damn sure it doesn't. And is the golden bubble what allows them to shileld/hearth? I thought it took longer than 10 seconds to hearthstone, the bubble doesn't last longer than that?

[crazymage]

i did something like 4500 damage to this damn paladin named twistedimage, and i FUCKIN LOST. we were both 34.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Odups
And we have no crazy mana regen ability. Got a Blessing that will give you 30 some mana (few extra if you invest talents) every 5 seconds. A smart paladin will watch their mana, so you might just be seeing ones that actually use it right.


Actually, we have a really nice Seal for mana regain. It gives us something like a 75% chance to get 50 mana every time we swing our weapon (hit or miss don't matter.) It's saved my butt more then once. Plus when you judge someone with it, everyone in your group gets 30 mana every time they hit the judged creature (physical only).

[Edited on 5-27-2005 by Adredrin]

[Odups]

Yeah, but I don't think it's anywhere near innervate quality. And if you're using the seal, or judging it, you're reducing dps a lot. Not using seal of righteousness or command ( or judging crusader), minimizes dps significantly. And seal of wisdom is most effective with a quick weapon, which means no big bursts of damage.

[Trinitis]

Well, I normally only use that seal when I'm low on mana.

My normal hits range from 190-300 dmg per hit. Seal of command flares for another 250ish. When I start getting low on mana (Normally after I use lay on hands [IE I normally use this when its a really tough battle, and I've already used all my other tricks]) I'll switch to the mana seal. I'm still doing 200-300 damage a swing, and getting 50 mana back a shot, so I can keep healing/tanking.

[Back]

Never played one, but most of the times I’ve tried one in PvP they are immune to backstabs and ambushes. Whats that all about?

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Backlash
Never played one, but most of the times I’ve tried one in PvP they are immune to backstabs and ambushes. Whats that all about?

I would guess they were shielded at the time.


For anyone interested, I logged onto my paladin and did some goofing around.

Paladins have three shield spells, but two of them are linked. So during a fight, a paladin can use Blessing of Protection on themselves (immune to all physical attacks. Cannot attack. Lasts 10 seconds. 5 min cool down), and then use either Divine Protection (Immune to all physical attacks and spells. Cannot Attack. Lasts 8 seconds. 5 min cool down) or Divine Shield (Immune to all damage and spells. Lasts 10 seconds. Attacks at 50% less speed. 5 min cool down.)

Divine Protection and Divine Shield are linked, using one puts the other into cool down.

[Back]

Dang. Is there any item or spell or anything in the game currently that can dispell? Or is interrupt all we get?

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Backlash
Dang. Is there any item or spell or anything in the game currently that can dispell? Or is interrupt all we get?

That I know of, there is nothing in game to stop shields from being casted. Mana shield, paladin shields, and Priest shields are all instant casts.

[Odups]

Although I faintly remember something about kicks working through shields. But I never tested it. I think people sometimes forget to make use of paladin shield time. Usually a paladin shields up to heal, so use that time for yourself to bandage up, get some distance, etc. If we're in the bubble healing, we're stuck in place.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Odups
Although I faintly remember something about kicks working through shields. But I never tested it. I think people sometimes forget to make use of paladin shield time. Usually a paladin shields up to heal, so use that time for yourself to bandage up, get some distance, etc. If we're in the bubble healing, we're stuck in place.

No kidding, I can't count how many times I've thrown up a bubble, and the people just keep swinging at me. It's rather amusing.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Adredrin

Originally posted by Odups
Although I faintly remember something about kicks working through shields. But I never tested it. I think people sometimes forget to make use of paladin shield time. Usually a paladin shields up to heal, so use that time for yourself to bandage up, get some distance, etc. If we're in the bubble healing, we're stuck in place.

No kidding, I can't count how many times I've thrown up a bubble, and the people just keep swinging at me. It's rather amusing.

I simply keep swinging.. but don't use any energy swings because they are already targetted. As a duel wielder, I'll know right when that shield drops and I'll nail them with a eye gouge.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Adredrin

Originally posted by Backlash
Dang. Is there any item or spell or anything in the game currently that can dispell? Or is interrupt all we get?

That I know of, there is nothing in game to stop shields from being casted. Mana shield, paladin shields, and Priest shields are all instant casts.

I believe my sword, Silent Fang, will prevent it. When it procs, it casts silent on the target for 6 seconds. I can't imagine a Paladin would be able to cast any shield spells while silenced.

[StrayRogue]

An upgraded Kick will prevent it too.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I simply keep swinging.. but don't use any energy swings because they are already targetted. As a duel wielder, I'll know right when that shield drops and I'll nail them with a
eye gouge.

I'd love to hear the rationale behind this move, oh wise rogue. (Why the fuck would you gouge when you already had full energy if you were waiting for the shield to drop?)

Basically, one of the biggest advantages of gouge is you can back off for a few seconds, and regain energy for you next move/combo.

[StrayRogue]

Gouge is generally used to stop someone and then allow you enough time to sneak around the back and backstab them. It isn't good for healing.

[Blazing247]

<Gouge is generally used to stop someone and then allow you enough time to sneak around the back and backstab them. It isn't good for healing. >

Gouge, at 4 seconds, is enough to pop a half of a heavy runecloth, or 1k health. Improved Gouge, at 5.5 seconds, is enough to heal about 1.4k health. That's a pretty big deal, IMHO. It's ideally used for backstabbing, but in a fix, you can regen a good 1/3 of your health while they are disoriented.

Also, cheapshot, sinister strike, gouge, and vanish is a VERY nice way to start any fight.

[StrayRogue]

I'd rather use blinding powder for a major heal-up. Much more reliable IMHO.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I simply keep swinging.. but don't use any energy swings because they are already targetted. As a duel wielder, I'll know right when that shield drops and I'll nail them with a
eye gouge.

I'd love to hear the rationale behind this move, oh wise rogue. (Why the fuck would you gouge when you already had full energy if you were waiting for the shield to drop?)

Basically, one of the biggest advantages of gouge is you can back off for a few seconds, and regain energy for you next move/combo.

One of the biggest.. but not the only. If I am at full energy and not in stealth, what move would you open with? When I eyegouge, I get 4 seconds to position myself behind them and nail them with my biggest non-point needed, non-stealth move.. backstab. 2 points right there and probably 150-200ish health from them at my level. From there, I spam SS until 5 and hit them with Evis... drink a tea and repeat.

Eye gouge isn't just used to run away ... Daralorg.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I'd rather use blinding powder for a major heal-up. Much more reliable IMHO.

And Rone is right.. I've used Eye gouge before just to throw some healing into me so I can save my big healing potion for emergencies.

And at level 28.. I don't have blind yet. :)