I got a bad feeling about this (New MOC system)

[Meos]

Our favorite game balance guy, GM Warden, brings you a super fancy update to Multi-Opponent Combat!

At long last, Multi-Opponent Combat (a.k.a. MOC or Force on Force combat) will soon be implemented as part of our Really Spectacular November!

How does it work?

If a target is attacked by more than one attacker within a short period (less than 10 seconds), the target's defenses may be reduced. The amount of reduction in the target's defenses is based on the number of attackers, the level of the attackers compared to the defender, and the defender's skill in Multi-Opponent Combat.

Attackers within +/- 10 levels of the defender are considered one attacker. Attackers more than 10 levels below the defender are treated as half of an attacker. Attackers more than 10 levels above the defender are treated as 1.5 attackers. The total number of attackers is tallied and rounded to determine how many effective attackers are engaging the defender. (Even if an attacker is 20 levels higher than the defender, no multi-attacker penalty applies to the defender unless there is another attacker.)

At 15 MOC ranks, and for every 20 MOC ranks thereafter, one effective attacker is negated.

For every effective attacker beyond the first, the defender's effective stance is reduced by 25%, similar to the way that ambushing from hiding currently modifies a defender's effective stance. If the total reduction would go below 0 (full offensive stance), then the remainder percentage will be applied to the defender's offensive-stance Parry, Evade, and Block DS. It will not reduce those values below 0.

Multi-Opponent Combat will be implemented the evening of November 30th. For the initial release it will apply to all creature defenders, but only to player defenders 50th level and higher. The release will be expanded to include all player defenders on December 7th.

Q. Does it apply to creatures when players attack them?
A. Yes! Grab a buddy or two and have fun ganging up on your enemies!

Q. What about my 1st level paladin that I just made today? Is he going to die to a rat swarm?
A. Creatures 5th level and less will be treated as half of an attacker when evaluating how many attackers are on a defender, so a minimum of 3 would be required before a newbie character loses any defenses at all. Player character attackers of all levels will still be considered normally, however.

Q. How can I avoid being beat up by creatures?
A. There are many ways to offset the potential for multiple attackers beating up your character. These include, 1) training in Multi-Opponent Combat, 2) hunting with a buddy, which will reduce the chances of enemies taking all of their attacks out on you, 3) retreating to another room so you can fight where you are not outnumbered, and 4) doing something to stop the attackers from attacking (e-wave, Lullabye, hitting one hard enough to stun it, etc.). No defenses are lost just for a potential attacker being present in the room. Attackers are only considered "engaged" if they physically attack the defender.

Q. What counts as an attack?
A. Currently all attacks that are resolved with our basic AS/DS combat system are considered, but this will be expanded in the near future to include maneuver attacks as well.

Q. What if I attack more than once with MSTRIKE or Two Weapon Combat?
A. No matter how many times an attacker attacks a target, he is only treated as a single attacker for the purposes of Multi-Opponent Combat.

This message was originally posted in GemStone Promotions, Really Spectacular November 2004. To discuss the above follow the link below.

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=33&topic=8&message =291

-Katrina



So, yeah, this sucks the big one. Pures are going to get raped by this.

[Numbers]

Stupidest implementation ever.

Why the fuck did they even bother taking that poll a few months ago.

Are there actually people out there that WANT this system?

Game balance is all well and good, but not when it doesn't fit into the context of the fucking base game. This system makes no sense without any sort of ranged engagement system.

Warden's a fuckwit.

[Keller]

Boooooooo!!!!

[Drew]

I've been against this system from the start, even though I mostly only fight one or two creatures at a time with my characters. If I wanted an engagement system I would move to dragonrealms, I play gemstone because I like the combat system the way it is.

<Are there actually people out there that WANT this system? >
Yes, a bunch of people were. Mostly those already capped or near it who want to make it more difficult for other people to catch up with them or the "Gemstone is too easy types."

[Axhinde]

Wrong Drew. Just think, OTF is going to be near impossible for my 90 train Wizard now, because it's extremely rare you only fight one or two critters at a time. Add in the DS pushdown from Ithzir, all the call winds, the griffin wind/screech, and it makes it near impossible to solo OTF now. This is just fucking lovely. Warden just nerfed every fucking pure in the game.

[Meos]

This system should not be released until Gemstone IV... in order for this to work for anyone but squares who religiously train in MOC the whole combat syetem needs to change. TP costs for skills should change, knockdown/disabling magic uptweaked.... nice one Warden ya fuckin moron.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Axhinde
Wrong Drew. Just think, OTF is going to be near impossible for my 90 train Wizard now, because it's extremely rare you only fight one or two critters at a time. Add in the DS pushdown from Ithzir, all the call winds, the griffin wind/screech, and it makes it near impossible to solo OTF now. This is just fucking lovely. Warden just nerfed every fucking pure in the game.

You can't argue with who was actually posting, several old pures were requesting it as well.

[Pallon]

So basically, if I walk into a room of 4+ attackers I stand a good chance of having my DS knocked down to offensive stance? (i.e., get stunned and die)

Fucking retarded

[Trinitis]

With this system, I want the ablitly to choose to stay "away" from the creatures and cast from afar.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Adredrin
With this system, I want the ablitly to choose to stay "away" from the creatures and cast from afar.
Meteor swarm.



Anyhow, my tactics won't change much, the only thing that annoys me is that when I'm hunting say, Ice giants, and a creature that can't really hurt me walks in that I would ignore, say an ice troll and a snow crone. If they both swung at me they couldn't hit me in offensive probably but then that would knock my DS down a good bit, then the ice giant spirit strikes (happens a lot) and swings at my 180 DS offensive stance witth a 410AS.... no good.

[Miss X]

.....

This is a joke right?

[Axhinde]

I forsee lots of open void hunting, and wind/smeteor combo hunting going on.

[Trinitis]

Nope, They've been saying its comming for a while :(

I wish they would have told us how MOC factors in more..

[Axhinde]

Originally posted by Adredrin
Nope, They've been saying its comming for a while :(

I wish they would have told us how MOC factors in more..

That would be against Simu policy. They make the changes, it's up to us to figure out what the hell they messed up.

[Trinitis]

Moral of the story is..

GS is no longer a "solo" game for anyone but sqares.

[Meos]

Try finding a hunting party for the rift in the early hours...

[Latrinsorm]

While I fully support this system:
Originally posted by Meos
Attackers are only considered "engaged" if they physically attack the defender.
JUST MAKE A FUGGING ENGAGEMENT SYSTEM ALREADY IF YOU WANT ONE SO DAMN BAD!!!!

Sry pures. Maybe they'll give you a "run away" guild skill in a few years.

edited ps: Squares couldn't hunt in swarms before this, they certainly can't now.

[Edited on 11-30-2004 by Latrinsorm]

[Drew]

Originally posted by Adredrin
Moral of the story is..

GS is no longer a "solo" game for anyone but sqares.


Warriors can't hunt in swarms now, nothing has changed for them or other squares/semis. This change really mostly affects pures.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by Adredrin
Moral of the story is..

GS is no longer a "solo" game for anyone but sqares.


Warriors can't hunt in swarms now, nothing has changed for them or other squares/semis. This change really mostly affects pures.

Your trying to say my warrior, who has 22 ranks of MOC at level 21, and can mstrike 4 or so critters can't handle a swarm? Bring it on.

Chainmail + Redux + MOC negate + Mstrike. I win.

[Skeeter]

won't this require a tweak to all creature gen rates?

walking to my normal hunting area I pass mad swarms of critters that otherwise can't touch me.

[Axhinde]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
While I fully support this system:
Originally posted by Meos
Attackers are only considered "engaged" if they physically attack the defender.
JUST MAKE A FUGGING ENGAGEMENT SYSTEM ALREADY IF YOU WANT ONE SO DAMN BAD!!!!

Sry pures. Maybe they'll give you a "run away" guild skill in a few years.

edited ps: Squares couldn't hunt in swarms before this, they certainly can't now.

[Edited on 11-30-2004 by Latrinsorm]

Last I heard, Meos wasnt a GM. So suggesting he make an engagement system is futile. Of course Warrior's aren't going to complain, they went from the worst class in GS to one of the best in a very short time. But that isn't the point.

I think they really need to make an engagement system before implementing this. Being "engaged" just be being attacked with the current combat system is, well, disappointing.

[Meos]

I should be a fuckin GM, Gemstone would be fun as hell if I was :)

[Latrinsorm]

A warrior at 21 is hardly indicative of a warrior of higher levels, first of all. Second of all, warriors don't wear chainmail. Are you sure you don't mean wus... I mean rogue? ;)
Originally posted by Axhinde
Last I heard, Meos wasnt a GM. So suggesting he make an engagement system is futile.I was speaking to Warden/the GMs, but I understand how it wasn't clear.

[Kuyuk]

Stop whining until it comes out. Christ.


K.

[Caiylania]

:ohshit:

*Though it does make sense.... if they are trying to make it more realistic I mean. You have one person, you can defend easily.... 6 take you on and...... help?

[Edited on 11-30-2004 by Caiylania]

[Trinitis]

No, I'm sorry, your right...

At level 80, my warrior will have a ton MORE redux, platemail, and 80+ ranks of MOC, be able to hit pretty much every creature in the swarm with an mstrike (lots of RT, but hey, 90% of them are dead now, yay for Claidhmores), and an even more powerful AS/DS.

Whats the problem again?

[Drew]

Originally posted by Adredrin
No, I'm sorry, your right...

At level 80, my warrior will have a ton MORE redux, platemail, and 80+ ranks of MOC, be able to hit pretty much every creature in the swarm with an mstrike (lots of RT, but hey, 90% of them are dead now, yay for Claidhmores), and an even more powerful AS/DS
Whats the problem again?

I think you are vastly overestimating the effectiveness of older warriors in swarms. But yes this system is "good" for them in that it penalizes that class the least (although there are plenty of warriors with only 5 or 30 ranks of MOC so that doesn't help them too much)

[Latrinsorm]

I'm going to leave it at this: I don't have a high-level warrior either. From what I hear, however, open mstriking with a claidhmore at higher levels is extremely unsound, tactically speaking. A half-minute of roundtime in an aggressive stance is not conducive to living, regardless of how many things you killed.

[Trinitis]

Warriors who choose to undertrain in MOC (which is a known warrior based skill) deal with their own problems.


If I follow my current warrior training plan up to level 80, I'll have 81 ranks of MOC..

81 - 15 = 51 For 1 creature negate

51 - 40 = 11 For 2 more creature negates

so in a swarm, I'm already ignorning 3 of the creatures. In non-invasions, thats most of the swarm.

:shrug:

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
I'm going to leave it at this: I don't have a high-level warrior either. From what I hear, however, open mstriking with a claidhmore at higher levels is extremely unsound, tactically speaking. A half-minute of roundtime in an aggressive stance is not conducive to living, regardless of how many things you killed.

Heh, tell that to the warrior hunting Skull temple last night!

He was in stance o, and got hit with an mstrike from a supplicant (who use flamberges) 5 times. each hit was about 11 dmg, not even a minor.

[Parkbandit]

This will make invasions MUCH more entertaining now...

[Drew]

Still doesn't change the fact that you'll be in offensive stance in hard RT and also 99% of the time those creatures will be casters as well.

I mean, if you find a way to make it work, more power to you.

[Axhinde]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
This will make invasions MUCH more entertaining now...

:lol:

As a pure, I give all other's my appreciation for partaking in any future invasions. Me, probably wont be participating.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
This will make invasions MUCH more entertaining now...

I already fight all my invasions in offensive stance, it's not like you can stance dance 40 creatures really.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
This will make invasions MUCH more entertaining now...

This just reinforces my choice to avoid most, if not all invasions :)

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by Parkbandit
This will make invasions MUCH more entertaining now...

I already fight all my invasions in offensive stance, it's not like you can stance dance 40 creatures really.

Right, which means you'll start loosing parry, block, and dodge DS right off the bat, insted of it cutting through your stance first :)

[Drew]

Invasions aren't so bad, I just die 10 times or so. LOWERED CON STAT.... OH NO!

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by Parkbandit
This will make invasions MUCH more entertaining now...

I already fight all my invasions in offensive stance, it's not like you can stance dance 40 creatures really.

Yes Drew.. we know how you fight in invasions. It's a tribute to you that you normally die first. :P

OH SHIT MORE OF A REASON TO HUNT WITH 435 AND OPEN IMPLODE!!1

- Arkans

[Varsus]

Originally posted by Adredrin

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by Adredrin
Moral of the story is..

GS is no longer a "solo" game for anyone but sqares.


Warriors can't hunt in swarms now, nothing has changed for them or other squares/semis. This change really mostly affects pures.

Your trying to say my warrior, who has 22 ranks of MOC at level 21, and can mstrike 4 or so critters can't handle a swarm? Bring it on.

Chainmail + Redux + MOC negate + Mstrike. I win.

Last time I actually checked it WAS lvl 21 when warriors got hit with the MAD DUX BOOST that they all get. Or not. If you really think your dux does much of anything at 21 I would check the numbers again.

My lowest train warrior is around 50 and I still get nailed alot hunting in full plate in swarms if I mstrike.

-Varsus

[Trinitis]

I never claimed my warrior had mad dux at 21. he has some..albe it little, but where he hunts now, he takes hits that do next to nothing to him.

Maybe I am overestimating what a warrior can do at higher levels, but if you avoid casters, I don't see how this can be a problem.

The ONLY time my warrior dies, is when he runs into a caster. Hell, I hunt casters right now that can't even touch me :shrug: Yay for thunder trolls and wind witches :)

[Varsus]

Most higher lvl hunting areas don't just have swingers, they have casters thrown in to make it harder. I can see this not hurting people at lower trains, but higher up I see it becoming an issue.

But... I think this will also force people to start hunting in groups, which promotes RP (or should) so in that sence it is not as bad. This game is a RPG.

-Varsus

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Meos
This system should not be released until Gemstone IV...

Am I missing something? I thought we were playing GS4.

Also, this news does totally suck - and is more reason for everyone to play World of Warcraft! Awesome graphics, killer gameplay, at least a dozen GSers in our guild right now, and it's only $13 a month ($2 less then GS4 Basic). And you can have up to 50 characters (limit of 5 chars on each server).

And you don't need an uber-pc to play it - 800mhz, 32mb graphics cards, & 256 RAM. Anything sold in the past few years should have no problem running it.

[Meos]

shit... I meant GSV

PLZ HUNT WITH AREA SPELLZ

- Arkans

[Meos]

atleast 525 will be a usefull hunting spell again.

[Wezas]

So this change to MOC should mean you get a bump in exp for taking out a room of creatures if you're at a disadvantage of having lower defenses.

Right?

Right?

:rolleyes:

[The Cat In The Hat]

Sooo... Anyone wanna trade a 99 train empath for a 75 train warrior?

[Izalude]

:spaz:


I hate Warden.

[ALARM]

I normally never post here or anywhere on this forum. It was only WOW that drew me to really start posting and getting involved with the folks around here.

I'm normally a pretty reserved guy.. most the time. Sometimes I get pissed and let things slip but I just have to let it out.

This is by far the worst design choice this moronic design team heading this derailed trainwreck everyone calls a game, has ever made.

I shit better decisions in the pot when I wake up in the morning.

[Marl]

what is wrong with this? tremors/meteor swarm yell "LOOK OUT" walk away....:bouncing:....I do dread all the open voids that are going to be laying around. It will make wizard shield and wall of force come into play again for the couple of minutes you are in a swarm...just have to be quick taking it out. Wont bother me too much I dont guess(havent seen it yet) and I am a pure...:bouncing:

[Wezas]

Originally posted by ALARM
This is by far the worst design choice this moronic design team heading this derailed trainwreck everyone calls a game, has ever made.


Agreed. And I thought I would be reserving that thought for breakage.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

So, is the lowest defense you can get as a result of a swarm your offensive DS? or can it go lower?

[Trinitis]

The lowest possible DS you get is your Stance O DS, minus your dodge, block, and parry.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Big deal, most pures generate a lot more DS than squares. My stance O DS with airwall up and self spelled is like 430.

edit: Make all spells self cast, and that changes things a bit, don't it.

[Edited on 11-30-2004 by Suppa Hobbit Mage]

[Landrion]

Originally posted by Adredrin

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
I'm going to leave it at this: I don't have a high-level warrior either. From what I hear, however, open mstriking with a claidhmore at higher levels is extremely unsound, tactically speaking. A half-minute of roundtime in an aggressive stance is not conducive to living, regardless of how many things you killed.

Heh, tell that to the warrior hunting Skull temple last night!

He was in stance o, and got hit with an mstrike from a supplicant (who use flamberges) 5 times. each hit was about 11 dmg, not even a minor.

Do you mean he took 5 3-hit mstrikes or 1 5- hit strike?

If it were 5 3-hit strikes I say, Poor fellow, losing 33+ blood at a time unnecessarily. Clue him in that supplicants default to the closed fist if he disarms them. Theyll probably get two points a shot off of a fist.

If it was 1 5-hit shot I think hes in the wrong skull temple. All of the supplicants Ive ever seen can only triple strike. The disarm advice remains sound though.

I dont know how much disarm your warrior friend has - but I can disarm them near 100% with 46 ranks. Which is necessary because when they hit me with it they sure do get minors each time.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

the number of Mstrikes by a supplicant is dependant on their age. I've seen 3, and 4, maybe even 5 (been awhile since I hunted there).

[Scott]

Well this encourages MA'ing.....

[Landrion]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
the number of Mstrikes by a supplicant is dependant on their age. I've seen 3, and 4, maybe even 5 (been awhile since I hunted there).

I must admit its hard to pay attention through the laughter when they mstrike with the closed fist. But I honestly cant recall ever seeing one better than 3.

[Trinitis]

I know for a fact they mstrike better then 3 at times..I was killed by a 4 strike Mstrike a few weeks back.

Edit to add : Mind you, this was after a I walked into a wizard using call wind.

[Edited on 11-30-2004 by Adredrin]

[Landrion]

Originally posted by Adredrin
I know for a fact they mstrike better then 3 at times..I was killed by a 4 strike Mstrike a few weeks back.

Edit to add : Mind you, this was after a I walked into a wizard using call wind.

[Edited on 11-30-2004 by Adredrin]

Thats cool. Its just a minor point anyway. As for the MOC thing - Im not happy about it either.

[Trinitis]

Well, after talking to Khaladon about it a bit, he basicly told me use pures have plenty of ways around the MOC thing (706, 718, 410, 435, 118, call wind, 905, etc etc)

I mentioned that we don't always have the mana to use those, and still have enough to actually kill the critters. He mentioned investing in rods and wands.

Basicly, its another silver sink for GS.

[Prosperanna]

Add me to the group of people who think this is the dumbest idea ever. Of course, this implementation won't come with another fixskills, so if you haven't been planning for this, and have no MOC, you're either screwed, or you're going to have to spend a lot of time sitting around while your skills migrate.

Anna

[Wezas]

The cute one reappears.

Where've you been, Katie?

[Prosperanna]

Hee hee. I've been around. I've just been lurking, and occasionally posting over on the scripting board. It usually takes something pretty stupid to get me to post, so here I am. ;)

[Stunseed]

< Chainmail + Redux + MOC negate + Mstrike. I win. >

Yes, Adredrin, we do win.

:ohshit:

What about a higher level warrior with, um, no MOC, who has lower redux, wearing double chain because he chose to train in hiding and ambushing for the sole purpose of hunting a specific critter?

[Sean]

I think it's a dumb decision but I can't say I honestly really care at this point in time. I hunt in offensive most of the time.

[Numbers]

"1. Do dead creatures count as attackers? [GREDGEWIZ]

Yes. If you are fighting a creature that has attacked you and you kill it, you are still considered to have been engaged with that creature for a few seconds.

2. Does a failed swing ('clean miss'...) count? [UTGARHOTH]

Yes.

3. Does an EBPed swing count? [Drumpy]

Yes.

4. Do prone/wounded creatures count as attackers? [Somebody]

Prone creatures count half their normal amount. Wounds on the creature do not reduce their count unless they are reducing their stance in response to their wounds (see below).

5. Does the stance of the attacker matter? [Somebody else]

Yes. The attacker's value is scaled based on their stance. An attacker in defensive stance is completely disregarded as an additional attacker.

6. If I move to another room, do I count as completely disengaging? [Somebody third!]

No, such a design would be too easily abused. We will be enhancing the PEER verb to allow players to look into adjacent rooms in hunting areas, though, to help allow players to pick their fights. (PEERing into adjacent rooms is currently only possible in the Rift, in town areas, and rooms that are specifically designed to allow it.)

Warden"


:banghead:

I'll say it again...

Warden is a fuckwit.

[Nakiro]

I like it.

Wait, I hunt in offensive almost all the time anyway. With a complete lack of MOC ranks, will this effect my dodge, agility, shield, etc, other bonus added DS's..?

[Seran]

By the way, this system blows. Say goodbye the the soloing pure's and even a good number of the semi's who don't train MOC. They put a huge push towards it with the ball spell update, now they're sealing the deal. Hellooo World of Warcraft

[GSLeloo]

I haven't really noticed a difference at all in hunting.

[AnticorRifling]

>report Holy crap you made these changes and I can still hunt you are teh evil!!11

SEND[Warden] Grrr... give us time, we'll fix that!

>report You've obviously never seen my training! You can't stop the pain train woo woo

[DeV]

It makes sense in a way but as far as balancing the game, it sucks.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Seran
By the way, this system blows. Say goodbye the the soloing pure's and even a good number of the semi's who don't train MOC. They put a huge push towards it with the ball spell update, now they're sealing the deal. Squares have been unable to hunt in swarms for a good long time, and they solo just fine. Now we even get the newfanglicized peer verb so you can see what's coming. In short, :violin:

[AlahnnaDenale]

Well, after talking to Khaladon about it a bit, he basicly told me use pures have plenty of ways around the MOC thing (706, 718, 410, 435, 118, call wind, 905, etc etc)

Notably, only spell clerics have in that list is 118.

Hmm. Way to screw clerics, again. Fuck this game.

www.unwritten.net

[Myitkyina]

nah, clerics could come out ahead so long as we don't care about hunting... there'll be plenty of dead pures requiring our services

[Trinitis]

clerics - Bind, Web, and Blind.

Sorcerer - Mind Jolt, ewave, web

Wizards - Tonis, ewave, call wind.


Your point?

[Sean]

I'm assuming runestaff users get shafted a lot more than shield users. As a cleric who uses a shield my DS is more than enough in off not to worry.

[Iqxero]

Originally posted by Tijay
I'm assuming runestaff users get shafted a lot more than shield users. As a cleric who uses a shield my DS is more than enough in off not to worry.

Actually, I think it's the other way around. The MOC changes say they erode your Shield/weapon/dodge skill. But I don't think it says anything about taking away any of your magic skills. On the offical boards they posted a couple shots, this new system does drop your DS below your stance offensive as it erodes your shield/weapon/dodge skills.

So, In conclusion, I think a Runestaff pure would have a better defense in a huge group of monsters, compared to a shield user. Unless I just suck at the whole runestaff thing and they don't actually give you DS. Or they count as a shield.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Adredrin
clerics - Bind, Web, and Blind.

Sorcerer - Mind Jolt, ewave, web

Wizards - Tonis, ewave, call wind.


Your point?

Clerics don't have any mass disablers.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Iqxero

Originally posted by Tijay
I'm assuming runestaff users get shafted a lot more than shield users. As a cleric who uses a shield my DS is more than enough in off not to worry.

Actually, I think it's the other way around. The MOC changes say they erode your Shield/weapon/dodge skill. But I don't think it says anything about taking away any of your magic skills. On the offical boards they posted a couple shots, this new system does drop your DS below your stance offensive as it erodes your shield/weapon/dodge skills.

So, In conclusion, I think a Runestaff pure would have a better defense in a huge group of monsters, compared to a shield user. Unless I just suck at the whole runestaff thing and they don't actually give you DS. Or they count as a shield.

Interesting I had missed that.

[Alarke]

My favorite is that Warden suggested clerics using web... yah.. we can use it for the whole 5 seconds it lasts! Woo!

[Iqxero]

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by Adredrin
clerics - Bind, Web, and Blind.

Sorcerer - Mind Jolt, ewave, web

Wizards - Tonis, ewave, call wind.


Your point?

Clerics don't have any mass disablers.

I've been arguing this point with Adredrin all day. His response is that e-wave only has a ten second RT. If your not counting invasion situations, a cleric could, in theory, bind or blind a target or two for much longer than ten seconds. Of course, we could also fail the warding and have our heads handed back to us.

I agree about the mass disabling however, and he mentioned that to Khaladon when I asked him the same question and Khaladon's response was "get imbeds". E-wave items are going to be 200K each by the end of the week.

As an aside, and related to this thread, hopefully tomorrow I'm going to take Adredrin out and beat him with a stick so I can find out if runestaff degrade as a shield does. He thinks it's parry, I hope it's not. Guess we shall find out.

[Ilvane]

I never understood the pain of the wizards until I started playing one..:grin:

Warriors get a heck of a lot of breaks. At least until they tweak redux.:lol:

-A

[The Cat In The Hat]

I hunt OTF, alone 99% of the time, I survived 4 hunts last night after the new system rolled in, and I didn't change my hunting style. I'm thinking it's not so bad, actually.

[Numbers]

Originally posted by Adredrin
clerics - Bind, Web, and Blind.

Sorcerer - Mind Jolt, ewave, web

Wizards - Tonis, ewave, call wind.


Your point?

Great!

Wanna come out hunting with me and send me extra mana? After all, if I'm mind jolting, e-waving, or webbing everytime I'm in a room with more than 2 or 3 creatures in it, I won't have enough mana to actually make any kills.

Pures aren't warriors. We're limited by our mana supply. We can't stay out in the field indefinitely, swinging a 15 pound slab of steel around.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

People are still whining about this?

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by 3704558

Originally posted by Adredrin
clerics - Bind, Web, and Blind.

Sorcerer - Mind Jolt, ewave, web

Wizards - Tonis, ewave, call wind.


Your point?

Great!

Wanna come out hunting with me and send me extra mana? After all, if I'm mind jolting, e-waving, or webbing everytime I'm in a room with more than 2 or 3 creatures in it, I won't have enough mana to actually make any kills.

Pures aren't warriors. We're limited by our mana supply. We can't stay out in the field indefinitely, swinging a 15 pound slab of steel around.

I never said I agreed with the mana use..

I was just simply pointing out that her statement was false, in that clerics only have 1 way to make a creature unable to attack.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by 3704558
Pures aren't warriors. We're limited by our mana supply. We can't stay out in the field indefinitely, swinging a 15 pound slab of steel around. And squares are limited by our stamina supply. We learned how to hunt without tackling every creature 100 times (some of us, anyway), it stands to reason that you can learn how to hunt using mana sparingly.

I will be very surprised if runestaff DS does not count as weapon DS.

[Prosperanna]

Originally posted by Myitkyina
nah, clerics could come out ahead so long as we don't care about hunting... there'll be plenty of dead pures requiring our services

Yeah, I figure there will be a lot more people requiring healing as well. :)

[AnticorRifling]

YOU CAN'T STOP THE PAIN TRAIN WOO-WOO WOO-WOO!!

That said I noticed a 5 DS drop in a swarm of 4 critters and I killed them all with no problem just like normal. I think this is alot of people crying wolf before seeing anything brought into fruition.

Be dynamic or be extinct.

[Drew]

I think Anticor's hunting style works very well with the new changes. It probably won't affect me much, I just hate the idea of an engagement system in gemstone, that's what dragonrealms is for, I'd play it if I wanted one.

[AlahnnaDenale]

Originally posted by Adredrin

Originally posted by 3704558

Originally posted by Adredrin
clerics - Bind, Web, and Blind.

Sorcerer - Mind Jolt, ewave, web

Wizards - Tonis, ewave, call wind.


Your point?

Great!

Wanna come out hunting with me and send me extra mana? After all, if I'm mind jolting, e-waving, or webbing everytime I'm in a room with more than 2 or 3 creatures in it, I won't have enough mana to actually make any kills.

Pures aren't warriors. We're limited by our mana supply. We can't stay out in the field indefinitely, swinging a 15 pound slab of steel around.

I never said I agreed with the mana use..

I was just simply pointing out that her statement was false, in that clerics only have 1 way to make a creature unable to attack.

You are correct, however..

e-wave = mass disabling. Clerics have no mass disabling spell. Also.

Bind = 14 Mana, Blind = 11 Mana, Web = 18 Mana. At least.

Tonis = 5 Mana, E-wave = 10 mana, Call Wind = 12 mana. And Call wind/e-wave are both mass disablers.

Clerics get teh short end of the stick. Again.

[Sean]

If your bind costs 14 mana it means your pretty young.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by AlahnnaDenale
You are correct, however..

e-wave = mass disabling. Clerics have no mass disabling spell. Also.

Bind = 14 Mana, Blind = 11 Mana, Web = 18 Mana. At least.

Tonis = 5 Mana, E-wave = 10 mana, Call Wind = 12 mana. And Call wind/e-wave are both mass disablers.

Clerics get teh short end of the stick. Again.

I thought you quit? Ok, ok, that wasn't constructive.

You should go silence the OOC channel for some reason only you can discern.

Fuck, that wasn't constructive either. Ok, go roll a mage.

Glad to be of help!

[AlahnnaDenale]

Originally posted by Tijay
If your bind costs 14 mana it means your pretty young.

Note the "At least" at the end of the sentence. I dunno how much bind costs me. I don't use it.


Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
I thought you quit? Ok, ok, that wasn't constructive.

You should go silence the OOC channel for some reason only you can discern.

Fuck, that wasn't constructive either. Ok, go roll a mage.

Glad to be of help!

I downgraded from Premie to basic and deleted all my characters save Alahnna, Cylen, and Lieya. I'm not ready to quit, nor have I said I was going to.

I'm sorry you feel that it is unjust that I removed 30 seconds of your chat time over a month ago in order to control a situation that was rapidly spiraling out of control. If you would like those 30 seconds back, I would be willing to send you exactly .12 pounds of horse feces, as that is how much I give a shit.

As for the mage.. why roll up yet another character for a game that is roller-coastering down the back-side?


Either way, clerics got the short end more than any other profession, save maybe Empaths. *shrug*

[Edited on 12-1-2004 by AlahnnaDenale]

[Nieninque]

This is what it did for me...

A black forest viper's fangs glisten as it tries to bite you!
AS: +346 vs DS: +549 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +30 = -150
A clean miss.
>
A black forest ogre swings a rust-covered dhara at you!
AS: +321 vs DS: +500 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +61 = -89
A clean miss.
>
A black forest viper's fangs glisten as it tries to bite you!
AS: +342 vs DS: +457 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +11 = -81
A clean miss.
>f

But I still managed. Just have to think about it a bit more, but it still works

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by AlahnnaDenale
I downgraded from Premie to basic and deleted all my characters save Alahnna, Cylen, and Lieya. I'm not ready to quit, nor have I said I was going to.

I'm sorry you feel that it is unjust that I removed 30 seconds of your chat time over a month ago in order to control a situation that was rapidly spiraling out of control. If you would like those 30 seconds back, I would be willing to send you exactly .12 pounds of horse feces, as that is how much I give a shit.

As for the mage.. why roll up yet another character for a game that is roller-coastering down the back-side?


Either way, clerics got the short end more than any other profession, save maybe Empaths. *shrug*

[Edited on 12-1-2004 by AlahnnaDenale]

I took it that you were going to quit by your whining post a few back, where you say something like "Fuck this game." and then the URL of your playground.

As far as "rapidly spiraling out of control", I'm curious what yardstick you use to measure that. Frankly, all I saw was some power tripping bitch get upset.

When all the mods start applying the same fucking rules to everyone, I'll be happy to stop ridiculing you for your inability to be unbiased.

Until then, start saving up your .12 pounds of horseshit.

[AlahnnaDenale]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
As far as "rapidly spiraling out of control", I'm curious what yardstick you use to measure that. Frankly, all I saw was some power tripping bitch get upset.

When all the mods start applying the same fucking rules to everyone, I'll be happy to stop ridiculing you for your inability to be unbiased.

Until then, start saving up your .12 pounds of horseshit.

I use the yardstick of this:

chat to moderators This is getting out of hand, anyone else agree?

[Moderators]-OtherMod: Yes.
[Moderators]-OtherMod2: Do something.

chat to moderators I'm going to Close the channel for a few seconds and tell everyone to STFU and drop it, then start silencing those that don't.

[Moderators]-OtherMod: Sounds good.

You were one of the ones I silenced because you continued on the subject, weren't you? *snort*

Anyway.. :offtopic:


I'm not going to threaten to quit over something like this. GS has been.. lackluster to me for awhile. MOC sucks, but its not a straw to break the camel's back. I'm not quitting quite yet, but I am spending more and more time in UL.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Actually, dumbass, no, I wasn't silenced.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Nieninque
This is what it did for me...

A black forest viper's fangs glisten as it tries to bite you!
AS: +346 vs DS: +549 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +30 = -150
A clean miss.
>
A black forest ogre swings a rust-covered dhara at you!
AS: +321 vs DS: +500 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +61 = -89
A clean miss.
>
A black forest viper's fangs glisten as it tries to bite you!
AS: +342 vs DS: +457 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +11 = -81
A clean miss.
>f

But I still managed. Just have to think about it a bit more, but it still works

I'm no where close to that DS and I don't have any problem. Nothing to think about really, just kill the most dangerous/biggest threat and move down the chain, same as always.

For me that fight would go like this:

Pre 909 cast 3 sec
Pre 415 cast vip 3 sec
pre 506 cast 3 sec
stance off
cman feint ogre 1 sec
cman feint boar 1 sec
att ogre 2 sec
att boar 2 sec
att boar 2 sec
sear boar
att vip 2 sec
att vip 2 sec
sear vip
att ogre 2 sec
sear ogre

So about 23 seconds, and that's if it takes that many swings.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by AlahnnaDenale
Either way, clerics got the short end more than any other profession, save maybe Empaths. *shrug*Mass attack spells for clerics: 1.
Mass attack spells for empaths: 0.

Advantage: Clerics!

Cheapest MOC of any pure: Clerics!
By far, cheapest Armor of any pure: Clerics!

It's ridiculous to me how reminiscent this all is of how a number of warriors (rogues too, probably, but I don't remember them whining as much) bitched a blue streak about how nerfed they were because guild skills required stamina.

[Sean]

She already conceeded that Empaths probably got a bigger short end of the stick.

That being said.

Actual points addressed in a post : AlahnnaDenale
Sarcastic reply to a post : Latrinsorm

Advantage : AlahnnaDenale!

Cheapest cost? Yes, 15/8 OMG so cheap! I know its a massive decrease in training cost from the 15/10 it costs empaths, wizards, or sorcerers.

Anyway, yes clerics are the most physical of the pures if they chose to be I don't think thats a news to anyone. But I fail to see how that doesn't mean she or others can't feel nerfed or having recieved the shaft because of the change. Just like I'm sure some warriors or rogues still feel they got shafted by requireing stamina for their guild skills especially compared to the way they used to be treated.

[Soulpieced]

Just because the cost is cheaper for clerics still doesn't mean they will get 15 or 35 ranks of MO to cancel out 1 or 2 extra creatures.

[AlahnnaDenale]

A cleric with MOC is a mutant, unfortunately. Snowdrop showed a DS drop of 100 due to 3 critters in the room. I couldn't deal with a drop of 100 DS, heh, and I'm sure most pures wouldn't be able to - except everyone but clerics/empaths has a Mass Disabling spell.

[Myitkyina]

I'm ready for clerics to stop being the most physical of the pures... isn't that why they created paladins? let's let the more physical clerics become paladins sooner rather than later, then adjust the training costs of clerics to be more in line with the other pures. I would gladly give up my lower training costs for the physical skills in exchange for lower costs on the magical skills (which I actually use).

And with regard to MOC, the costs of training in that skill aren't especially low for semis either. My little bardess is very well trained in MOC for a semi, but with her current training plan she won't have 15 ranks til she's 29... I'm not sure how she's going to deal with swarms until then. The cost of MOC for a bard is 7,3 so it's an expensive skill to try to 1x and I'm not sure what she could cut to fit in more ranks.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tijay
She already conceeded that Empaths probably got a bigger short end of the stick.Probably != maybe. If there's any class that should bite their tongue before delivering the woe is me shtick, it's sorcerers. But clerics are a close second.
Sarcastic reply to a post : Latrinsorm:saint: I wasn't being sarcastic (for once).
But I fail to see how that doesn't mean she or others can't feel nerfed or having recieved the shaft because of the change.Obviously empaths are shafted more, because it's that much harder for them to get MOC, and they have no mass attack. And if we're going through the inane exercise of comparing professions, nerf should be reserved for the profession that is most affected (negatively) by the change.

[Stunseed]

< I'm not sure how she's going to deal with swarms until then. >

Move a room away, use hunting tactics to separate them, any number of things. My Bard is singled in MOC, and what I've been doing is moving a room away and sitting prepared to cman charge the next thing that walks in. So even if another creature or two comes in, one is incapacitated < sp > and can't swing.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Anyone with 213 can easilly seperate them, just cast it and watch them scatter. It doesn't last long once you leave the room, so there's not much risk of pissin' someone else off.

[Syberus]

Violent winds rip through the area!
An Ithzir initiate is struck by flying debris!
... 30 points of damage!
Hard strike to right leg breaking tendons and bone!
It is knocked to the ground!
The Ithzir initiate is stunned!
An Ithzir scout is struck by flying debris!
... 25 points of damage!
Strong blow to right arm breaks it!
The Ithzir scout is stunned!
An Ithzir adept is struck by flying debris!
... 20 points of damage!
Light strike to chest.
A war griffin is struck by flying debris!
... 5 points of damage!
Strike hits close to the right eye.
An Ithzir seer is struck by flying debris!
... 10 points of damage!
Light blow to left arm.
An Ithzir herald is struck by flying debris!
... 20 points of damage!
Good blow to left arm!
The Ithzir herald is stunned!
An Ithzir seer is struck by flying debris!
... 25 points of damage!
Nice blow to left hand!


Muahauahahha scatter them indeed

[Marl]

I see no difference.....swarms still showing up 3-6 critters, tremors then cone x 3 or 4, 516 once or twice, 908 last critter left, wash rinse repeat....oh if you don't give them a chance to swing at you, you don't really notice the ds loss :shrug:

[Meos]

Gemstone sucks, WoW rules... that is all.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Probably != maybe. If there's any class that should bite their tongue before delivering the woe is me shtick, it's sorcerers. But clerics are a close

Latrin, have you ever played a cleric? If you haven't then you really don't understand what's been done to them over the recent years. You can sit back and point to a lower armor cost or a 2 point lower MOC cost and say that clerics have no room to complain, but that just indicates that you don't really understand the fubared mess that Uliq and Warden have created for clerics, particularly those who are smite aligned.

And yes, Khaladon has a mutant arms using cleric who he never refrains from tossing out as doing GREAT with these changes that Uliq tosses in, but talk to other clerics and you'll find out that things are not all that good.

Now, if you had said this with regard to wizards I would have agreed with you hands down. Wizards have become extremely fun to play with a very versatile spellbook and the ability to handle swarms.

The bottom line is that, comparing professions and saying that one has no room to talk or complain is silly. I've heard the whining cries of squares so much over the years that I find it just hard to imagine that when given what many consider a "major nerf" you pull out the "well why are you complaining card?"

If Uliq ups the training costs for clerics, things will get even more interesting. Empaths also have no easy road to hoe, but at least they aren't limited by a roleplaying choice - like clerics have been.

I'm not even complaining about the changes. I haven't played my cleric or wizard who are well over 50 trains each, but I have played my bard and when they rolled in the changes she had her DS reduced by 40 points and she's less than 20. 40 points is quite a bit for a less than titled character. That portion has since removed since it was not supposed to be in until next week...

[Edited on 12-2-2004 by TheRoseLady]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
Latrin, have you ever played a cleric?Yes (named Latrinsorm), but I'll read the rest of your post anyway.
when given what many consider a "major nerf"From what I've heard, this change has barely registered for a number of pures. Just because hunting requires more thought/effort does not mean anyone has been majorly nerfed. Squares haven't been able to hunt in swarms, but we managed to progress. I don't subscribe to the school of thought that square players are inherently smarter than pure players, so I don't see the problem.

To summarize: Anticor is right.

[StrayRogue]

I would consider this a predictable "addition" to Gemstone. We've known about it for YEARS now, so we'll have to live with it I guess. Only once in recent memory have I come across an area where there were more than enough critters to cause problems for my pures, and that was an invasion. Usually they don't swarm enough, or I can control the swarm and kill them quickly enough for them not to bother me. I'm betting most other decent hunters are the same.

[StrayRogue]

PS, my Cleric is omni, and has been omni for some time now. High AS, DS, CS etc. A sheer tank in invasions.

[Amaron]

ok so If I understand right we need 15 ranks in MOC to offset the critters in the room?

There is no way my lil wizard can hunt much of anything alone for a long time I guess.

My lil empath rarely hunts and will do so less now.

My bardess and rogue will be ok..

my ranger may be ok.. she uses a bow... I didnt train in MOC for her...


Dang I am confused to all this...

J

[Edited on 12-2-2004 by Amaron]

[Trinitis]

No, you need more then 15 ranks of MOC to counter the new change.


15 ranks ignores *1* creature..so if there is a swarm of 5 attacking you, it only counts 4 swings.

you need 35 ranks to remove 2, 55 to remove 3, etc etc

[Gan]

I was vassilating between converting my empath over from shield/blade to runestaff until the MOC changes came out... THANKS SIMU!!!111 For convincing me not to change a thing. Runestaff users so got it up the ass now with an additional decrease in DS during swarms.

Here's a clip as to why my empath is staying with his shield and blade...

>[Old Ta'Faendryl, River Edge]
Cracks and crannies of broken stone tumbled all along river's edge provide a haven for tiny creatures of the night. A low drone of insect song fills the air. You also see a greater construct, a war griffin that is flying around, a greater construct, an Ithzir initiate, an Ithzir adept, a war griffin that is flying around, an Ithzir adept, an Ithzir janissary, an Ithzir seer, an Ithzir initiate, a greater construct and an Ithzir scout.
Obvious paths: east, west
>An Ithzir janissary swings a spiral-hafted handaxe at you!
AS: +411 vs DS: +598 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +43 = -112
A clean miss.

[ I did not slow down long enough with this many to see how low my DS would go ] [ 12 in this one room ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>[Old Ta'Faendryl, River Edge]
Cracks and crannies of broken stone tumbled all along river's edge provide a haven for tiny creatures of the night. A low drone of insect song fills the air. You also see an Ithzir janissary, a war griffin that is flying around, a greater construct, a greater construct, a greater construct, a greater construct and an Ithzir seer.
Obvious paths: east, west
>
A greater construct raises its massive foot and attempts to smash you!
AS: +443 vs DS: +593 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +53 = -68
A clean miss.
>
A greater construct raises its massive foot and attempts to smash you!
AS: +443 vs DS: +553 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +34 = -47
A clean miss.
>
A war griffin swoops down from high overhead!
A war griffin tries to bite you!
AS: +435 vs DS: +516 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +53 = -4
A clean miss.
>
An Ithzir janissary swings a spiral-hafted handaxe at you!
AS: +411 vs DS: +477 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +70 = +36
A clean miss.
>
An Ithzir seer closes her eyes and bows her head slightly.
>
A greater construct stomps in.
>
A greater construct raises its massive foot and attempts to smash you!
AS: +454 vs DS: +454 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +65 = +94
A clean miss.
>
Gespry just arrived.
>
You feel more refreshed.
>
A greater construct swings a massive arm at Gespry!
AS: +443 vs DS: +645 with AvD: +44 + d100 roll: +30 = -128
A clean miss.
>
Gespry just went west.
>
A greater construct swings a massive arm at you!
AS: +443 vs DS: +477 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +68 = +74
A clean miss.
>
A war griffin tries to spear you with its beak!
AS: +435 vs DS: +477 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +9 = -6
A clean miss.
>
An Ithzir seer suddenly opens her eyes and stares directly at you!
CS: +426 - TD: +442 + CvA: +2 + d100: +60 - -5 == +51
Warded off!
>
A greater construct raises its massive foot and attempts to smash you!
AS: +443 vs DS: +454 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +81 = +99
A clean miss.
>
An Ithzir janissary swings a spiral-hafted handaxe at you!
AS: +411 vs DS: +454 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +32 = +21
A clean miss.
>A greater construct stomps in.
>
An Ithzir seer closes her eyes and bows her head slightly.
>
A greater construct swings a massive arm at you!
AS: +456 vs DS: +454 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +20 = +62
A clean miss.

[ DS pushdown from 593 to 454 with 7 initial critters and 2 more walking in while I sat there in guarded and watched how low my DS would get pushed down ] [ This doesnt also count the ambush pushdown I would get with an ambushing scout going for my head which is also a common occurrence in OTF ] [ Ergo I am avoiding the runestaff like the plague. ]

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
From what I've heard, this change has barely registered for a number of pures. Just because hunting requires more thought/effort does not mean anyone has been majorly nerfed. Squares haven't been able to hunt in swarms, but we managed to progress. I don't subscribe to the school of thought that square players are inherently smarter than pure players, so I don't see the problem.

To summarize: Anticor is right.

Anticor plays a very heavily physical trained wizard. So while I respect his opinion, I don't think he has much to worry about.

Well, after having read the boards, and posts from some pretty well informed people - I think that your assessment about pures is incorrect.

If you truly believe that this entire FonF can be dealt with by hunting "smarter" then I gave you more credit than you deserve.

[Stunseed]

< If you truly believe that this entire FonF can be dealt with by hunting "smarter" then I gave you more credit than you deserve. >

I think in a game where people can not even play the game and hunt flawlessly < AFK Scripting >, hunting needs to be made more difficult. I think it will make hunting more exciting, and less tedious.

[Sean]

Areas like the skull temple aren't really representative of the whole game.

[Fallen]

They made a partial fix to MOC. Creatures in different rooms no longer count towards lowering your defense.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
From what I've heard, this change has barely registered for a number of pures. Just because hunting requires more thought/effort does not mean anyone has been majorly nerfed. Squares haven't been able to hunt in swarms, but we managed to progress. I don't subscribe to the school of thought that square players are inherently smarter than pure players, so I don't see the problem.

To summarize: Anticor is right.

OTF swarms constantly, it's not unusual at all to see 2 griffins, 3 constructs and 5 or 6 ithzir in one room.

I havn't had any problem hunting since the changes, and my empath's as pure as you get. She's 13x magic ranks, and a 4x stave user. I was a bit miffed at the changes before they happened, I was expecting a LOT worse, but I decided to wait and see before bitching. Now it doesn't bother me. The only time I seem to die is from being disarmed without walls up, or natural causes (Griffin picks me up and drops me, I go splat.)

[StrayRogue]

Yeah, all it takes is smarter hunting to prevent from swarming critter deaths. Seems pretty simple to me.

[Stunseed]

Tijay, there are MANY places that can be AFK scripted. I'd imagine someone with enough time and energy - I could name a few -, you could script a majority of your hunting experience in Gemstone.

I'm just trying to look at it from a positive light, to bring back some of the thrill to hunting, maybe people would get creative and find new ways to do things, seeing as how the easy way < not really, MoC changes aren't as major as they're cracked to be > is now gone.

[Drew2]

JUST CALL ME OUT WHY DON'T YOU, STUN.

I'm never helping Jolena think of your Christmas presents again.



JK <3 U.


If you bribe me enough I may tell you what you're getting.

[Stunseed]

Actually, I know you could script to an extent, but there are others I know who could do so. And I love the surprise of X-mas, even though she's gotten all of her gifts in the open with no surprise whatsoever.

Plus, what better gift for X-mas than me for ....9 days? :smilegrin:

[Drew2]

Originally posted by Stunseed
Plus, what better gift for X-mas than me for ....9 days? :smilegrin:

Me. For one day.


OH BURN.

[Stunseed]

:no:

Although, I bet the mexican hat dance song would make her laugh so hard she passed out.

[Drew2]

Whatever. I'd just say one word (and run) and that joke would die quickly...

I THINK YOU KNOW WHICH WORD.

[Stunseed]

Da.....nanana-danana
Dananana
Danana!

Ole!

[Sean]

Positive for who? I might enjoy some challenge here and there but I do no enjoy dying. In fact with the exception of a few bad luck streaks in illoke I goto lengths to avoid it. I'm not saying everyone should want to do that or should do that in anyway. Just saying whats positive for you isn't universal. But I also don't think thats really what you were trying to say. I just wanted to bring it up as a point.

That being said I don't know that this change makes the hunt anymore "thrilling" or "exciting." It really just means I stance less as a pure and adjust my strategy. I've never really thought the change was a huge deal but thats because of the type of character I play and my position in the game. If you want a challenge however there are plenty of ways on an individual basis to create challenges when hunting. For me it would hunting in offensive without stancing, or changing my hunting grounds up and doing something new. There will always be easier hunting grounds and harder grounds that individuals can chose to hunt in and how they hunt in them. Do you really think changes like this make the game more challenging? I think it just throws off the status quo and once everyone figures out how to adjust in a few days or so everything will return to the norm.

[Stunseed]

I say...

not really, MoC changes aren't as major as they're cracked to be.

You say...

everyone figures out how to adjust in a few days or so everything will return to the norm...

I look at it like this. People burn out on hunting because it is tedious. It is tedious because in MOST - not all I agree with you - cases, it's the same thing. Perhaps instead of it being difficult, we - in a general sense - could view it as a chance to break the cycle?

[TheRoseLady]

Just because a person doesn't agree with the implementation, doesn't mean that they don't agree with the concept.

My issue is that the percentage is too high, it should be 1 extra critter at 5 ranks then go up as needed, clearly someone didn't do enough testing since they had to roll in a fix 24 hours later that removed critters in other rooms from the formula. I'm sure there are more unintended features that have been implemented.

Do you think that squares will finally stop whining about cone of lightning? I doubt it.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
Anticor plays a very heavily physical trained wizard. So while I respect his opinion, I don't think he has much to worry about.I was talking about this part of Anticor's post: "Be dynamic or be extinct." :)
If you truly believe that this entire FonF can be dealt with by hunting "smarter" then I gave you more credit than you deserve. Correct me if any of the following statements are incorrect:
a) Some pures can no longer hunt in swarms.
b) Squares cannot hunt in swarms.
c) Squares can hunt.

b) and c) tell us that it is possible to hunt even if one cannot hunt in swarms. Combine that deduction with a)...
Originally posted by the Cat in the Hat
OTF swarms constantlyThat's what I hear. It'd be nice if they'd stop being jerks and implement a bunch of new cap-area hunting grounds.