Tainted Bond?

[Valyss]

Is there consensus on whether or not it's worth the points if you have a t5 weapon? Has anyone done the math on net effect to uptime percentage? Thanks!

For completeness sake, I'm swinging a T5 maul. I open ambush things that are crittable, focus mstrike things that aren't and berserk in warcamps. My current CM training looks something like:

Wspec 5
Bonding 5
Mobility 2
Toughness 3
Griffin 3
Focus 5
Pmastery 3
+Token amounts of sstrike, charge for defense

[Whirlin]

Assumptions:
Ensorcell cannot proc while Ensorcell AS proc from previous swing is active
Proc rate is 1/8, which I believe was discussed at length in another thread.

Without Tainted Bond, you're looking at 1 proc for every 9 swings, on average. Which is 11% uptime. For a T5 weapon, that would be an average gain of +2.78 AS
With Tainted Bond, you're looking at 2 procs every 10 swings on average, which is 20% uptime. For a T5 Weapon, that would be an average gain of +5 AS

I'm not familiar enough with warrior CMANs to say whether or not Tainted Bond is better than the next-best-alternatives within warrior CMAN training, but there's the maths part.

[Maerit]

Based on Whirlin's maths and your list of cman, wouldn't surge if strength be much stronger? Unless that was accidentally excluded...

[Whirlin]

Based on Whirlin's maths and your list of cman, wouldn't surge if strength be much stronger? Unless that was accidentally excluded...
Assuming the wiki article is correct, and it's STR Bonus Bonus, not bonus to STR, and you're not using the CMAN on cooldown:
Rank 1: 23% Uptime of +8 AS, or +1.8 AS
Rank 2: 27% Uptime of +10 AS or +2.7 AS
Rank 3: 33% Uptime of +12 AS or +4 AS
Rank 4: 37.5% Uptime of +14 AS or +5.25 AS
Rank 5: 42.8% Uptime of +16 AS or +6.8 AS

Surge is also 30 points from Rank 0 to Rank 5
Tainted Bond is 20 point. Or equivalent CMAN point spend of Rank 4 Surge (hey, that's why its bolded!)

There are two LARGE assumptions, one minor to be made for comparison purposes:
1) You're not obtaining a STR bonus enhancive from elsewhere that could impact your total Surge Bonus
2) You're swinging 100% of uptime
3) You're keeping relatively consistent attack patterns, and not specifically building up and burning all Stamina/etc immediately following Surge. Otherwise this would yield a higher benefited uptime due to higher density of attacks during uptime rather than measuring simply time.

Whereas Tainted Bond assumptions are that you're swinging within ~15 seconds of the ensorcell procs to use up all charges.... Which I would say is easier to obtain than these assumptions?

Actual results may vary on playstyle.

So, agree with Maerit with an asterisks~

[Valyss]

I have strength enhancives that put me up to the maximum strength bonus, so I don't get any return from surge :(

[Valyss]

Does anyone have empirical experience with Tainted Bond that support or refute the maths?

One concern I have is that, I *think* the proc rate is 1/8, but sometimes the proc will restore stamina/health/etc, so there will be a class of procs that don't even count toward your average AS

[Gnomad]

Assuming the wiki article is correct, and it's STR Bonus Bonus, not bonus to STR, and you're not using the CMAN on cooldown:
Rank 1: 23% Uptime of +8 AS, or +1.8 AS
Rank 2: 27% Uptime of +10 AS or +2.7 AS
Rank 3: 33% Uptime of +12 AS or +4 AS
Rank 4: 37.5% Uptime of +14 AS or +5.25 AS
Rank 5: 42.8% Uptime of +16 AS or +6.8 ASThe cooldown period for surge begins the moment you activate it, so you actually need to subtract the 90 second duration from the cooldown. Rank 5 is 75% uptime in theory and higher than that in practice.

[Whirlin]

The cooldown period for surge begins the moment you activate it, so you actually need to subtract the 90 second duration from the cooldown. Rank 5 is 75% uptime in theory and higher than that in practice.
Bleh to you. I'd redo the maths if Valyss said it was a viable alternative!

[Jeril]

Does anyone have empirical experience with Tainted Bond that support or refute the maths?

One concern I have is that, I *think* the proc rate is 1/8, but sometimes the proc will restore stamina/health/etc, so there will be a class of procs that don't even count toward your average AS

http://gsguide.wikia.com/wiki/Ensorcell

This explains it all in rather good detail( Thanks Goat!) but I can explain that flare part rather quickly for you. A large percent of the time it procs to restore health, when the resource it is trying to replenish is already maxed out you get the AS/CS boost on your next attack instead.

<3

[Fallen]

Sounds like it would be useful for berserking with the health refilling properties.

[Jeril]

Sounds like it would be useful for berserking with the health refilling properties.

The stamina flares aren't bad either, I know some people who have loved berserking with ensorcell, especially twc.

[SourD]

i think when your health and stamina are full you get 2 swings with the extra AS boost but when it replenishes health or stamina it only flares once.

[Valyss]

i think when your health and stamina are full you get 2 swings with the extra AS boost but when it replenishes health or stamina it only flares once.

that's my understanding too, which actually means that if you're consistently taking damage while hunting, the value of tainted bond goes down even more

[neimanz1]

Is there consensus on whether or not it's worth the points if you have a t5 weapon? Has anyone done the math on net effect to uptime percentage? Thanks!

For completeness sake, I'm swinging a T5 maul. I open ambush things that are crittable, focus mstrike things that aren't and berserk in warcamps. My current CM training looks something like:

Wspec 5
Bonding 5
Mobility 2
Toughness 3
Griffin 3
Focus 5
Pmastery 3
+Token amounts of sstrike, charge for defense

Tainted bond is passive and ensorcelling is amazing! there is absolutely no reason why its not on your list especially considering the 3 ranks in toughness

[Whirlin]

Tainted bond is passive and ensorcelling is amazing! there is absolutely no reason why its not on your list especially considering the 3 ranks in toughness
I'd say that plus Jeril's response is a pretty resounding argument to at least try it for a few months.

[Aganii]

If you are strapped for Cman points I can understand not getting Tainted Bond. You already get the resource regen with your T5 so its just an extra boosted swing for 20 CMP. If you were TWC with a splitter or even two T5s the potential uptime would make it higher priority. The increased resource regen means more chance for the acuity proc, too. You could even throw in mongoose + parry mastery in warcamps if that is your thing

As a THW user or sword and board I can see the argument against it atleast.

[Valyss]

Tainted bond is passive and ensorcelling is amazing! there is absolutely no reason why its not on your list especially considering the 3 ranks in toughness

hey! don't knock toughness!

i don't know if it's intentional or not, but the point where your AS drops off from blood loss doesn't change with toughness, so you effectively have more HP to lose before your AS starts dropping. i would never go below one rank of toughness.. 15 hp (on top my of base of a piddly 160) is too nice for 6 cman points

[Gnomad]

Yeah, rank 1 of toughness is a no-brainer for the smaller races. 2 and 3 are a tougher sell.