Sadie Scroll Issues - I'm getting pissed

[Viekn]

I am having a ton of issues getting my requests approved. I am trying to change a grey wolf fur satchel (pelt bundling) in to something else.

Here is what I have mostly tried to far...

threadbare hunter's satchel
ragged patchwork survival kit
rugged leather hiking satchel

GM keeps telling me: "There is no way for someone to know that is a survival satchel by just glancing at you."

That makes no sense to me. First, Simu released herb bundlers that are survival kits. Secondly, if you look at me, you see that it's a survival kit, so the above explanation doesn't work. I've also seen hiking packs fairly often. I once even owned a hunter's equipment case on a character. Don't get me started on the fact that we're playing a game with fucking dwarves and orcs and elves and shit and you're deciding to have this area of the game make commons sense. I am willing to living with that part, even though it's bullshit. But if you, Simu, have released the same item descriptions I am asking for, why in the hell aren't you letting me use them as well?

Can anyone help me with this please?

[Allereli]

not getting survival kit is bullshit

[Velfi]

If they've released items as survival kits, that should be gg no re.

[SashaFierce]

Drop the scroll and resubmit a new one. You got a bad GM.

[Viekn]

I made my case in a response to Sadie (in a nicer tone obviously). Here is the reply I just got: A runner approaches you and recites a message from Sadie, "I am sorry you are confused. Sometimes things get released, when they should not or were ok in the past but are not with our current qc standards. Just because something was done in the past, does not mean it can be done now. I am following our current qc standards. Please describe your item by what it looks like, not what it does.

[Viekn]

Drop the scroll and resubmit a new one. You got a bad GM.

Well, that's what I thought when I took it to a merchant a couple days ago. She turned me down in person, so I submitted a Sadie scroll thinking another GM would know the system better and be OK with it. They basically told me once an item gets denied, a record is created for that denial and follows the item around to make sure you can't then get that alter done somewhere else.

[Allereli]

I made my case in a response to Sadie (in a nicer tone obviously). Here is the reply I just got: A runner approaches you and recites a message from Sadie, "I am sorry you are confused. Sometimes things get released, when they should not or were ok in the past but are not with our current qc standards. Just because something was done in the past, does not mean it can be done now. I am following our current qc standards. Please describe your item by what it looks like, not what it does.

Aren't newly genned characters released with survival kits?

[Viekn]

Aren't newly genned characters released with survival kits?

Rations kits, not survival kits. But that's the same damn idea!

[Taernath]

That's some bullshit. Sounds like a GM forcing their narrow personal interpretation of something.

[Velfi]

I made my case in a response to Sadie (in a nicer tone obviously). Here is the reply I just got: A runner approaches you and recites a message from Sadie, "I am sorry you are confused. Sometimes things get released, when they should not or were ok in the past but are not with our current qc standards. Just because something was done in the past, does not mean it can be done now. I am following our current qc standards. Please describe your item by what it looks like, not what it does.

You can measure that condescension on the Rockwell scale.

[Viekn]

Rations kits, not survival kits. But that's the same damn idea!

I just sent this back, let's see what they say: You write out a note, "I appreciate you having patience with me on this. But aren't new characters generated with "rations kits"? How is that any different?" and send it with a runner to Sadie.

[Taernath]

LITERALLY THE SAME
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/40/80/b1/4080b1bc58a5963a2020ed1ac2b134b0.jpg

http://image.dhgate.com/albu_387850275_00/1.0x0.jpg

[Velfi]

http://i.imgur.com/8hKj9tk.gif

[Warriorbird]

Given all the retarded profession item shit they put in game...this is a dumb bridge to piss a customer off on.

[Allereli]

Survival kits were off the shelf at Briarmoon Cove Fest. We're talking February here, not 10 years ago.

[Viekn]

Talk about the definition of stupidity! Here is the response I just got: A runner approaches you and recites a message from Sadie, "That is an older system. If you want a rations kit, you can roll up a new character, but we will not alter another item into one.

At this point, I literally want my satchel altered into: "a plain fucking satchel", cause apparently that's what they want.

Do I have any recourse at this point?

[Taernath]

Can you alter a rations kit into a rations satchel? This is beyond stupid.

[Whirlin]

Forget Sadie, get it altered at a GALD merchant... 'Sadie' is whomever draws the draw for supporting the requests and can be good or bad. But going to a GALD merchant, the opportunities for X levels of QC before returning the item can't happen when there are 90 Fleurs/Dreaven alts there waiting in line, yelling at the GM to work faster.

[Velfi]

Can you alter a rations kit into a rations satchel? This is beyond stupid.

I'd kill for a good Simu gonna Simu gif.

[Methais]

I am having a ton of issues getting my requests approved. I am trying to change a grey wolf fur satchel (pelt bundling) in to something else.

Here is what I have mostly tried to far...

threadbare hunter's satchel
ragged patchwork survival kit
rugged leather hiking satchel

GM keeps telling me: "There is no way for someone to know that is a survival satchel by just glancing at you."

That makes no sense to me. First, Simu released herb bundlers that are survival kits. Secondly, if you look at me, you see that it's a survival kit, so the above explanation doesn't work. I've also seen hiking packs fairly often. I once even owned a hunter's equipment case on a character. Don't get me started on the fact that we're playing a game with fucking dwarves and orcs and elves and shit and you're deciding to have this area of the game make commons sense. I am willing to living with that part, even though it's bullshit. But if you, Simu, have released the same item descriptions I am asking for, why in the hell aren't you letting me use them as well?

Can anyone help me with this please?

They used to play that card when you wanted a profession item, like a wizard's hat or whatever. Then you could buy wizard's hats from the wizard guild years later, which I think are gone now, but still.

Send the GM a picture of a first aid kit and ask him to tell you what it is. Then demand to know how he knew what it was without it saying "FIRST AID" on it.

If all else fails, email Wyrom and he'll probably kick him in the nuts and make him quit acting so stupid.

[Velfi]

Survival kits were off the shelf at Briarmoon Cove Fest. We're talking February here, not 10 years ago.

Did you bring this up Viekn?

[Viekn]

Forget Sadie, get it altered at a GALD merchant... 'Sadie' is whomever draws the draw for supporting the requests and can be good or bad. But going to a GALD merchant, the opportunities for X levels of QC before returning the item can't happen when there are 90 Fleurs/Dreaven alts there waiting in line, yelling at the GM to work faster.

I can definitely try that again. I went to a GALD merchant first but at that point I was trying to get a "hunter's satchel" made. I would think going back to a GALD merchant I could get a survival kit. But per whomever was QC'ing my request last night, said that once a denial is made on an alter request, it follows that item to make sure you can't take it somewhere else and get it done.

[Stunseed]

Forget Sadie, get it altered at a GALD merchant... 'Sadie' is whomever draws the draw for supporting the requests and can be good or bad. But going to a GALD merchant, the opportunities for X levels of QC before returning the item can't happen when there are 90 Fleurs/Dreaven alts there waiting in line, yelling at the GM to work faster.

Normally I'm all about that. That being said, you're going to have to go to a higher power to have someone do what you want. Once it's logged internally, you're only going to make yourself known as a douchebag merchant shopper if you keep trying to circumvent which may yield a long-term reputation.

I'd comb through the policy and if you can support your theory like an adult, you may make some headway. If there's a new class of GMs around, the line is decidedly more exact as they are going to reinforce them.

You may also want to see if you can wait until the GM who owns the script shows up as they may have a final say as to the "spirit" of what is coded.

[Viekn]

Did you bring this up Viekn?

I haven't yet, no.

[Viekn]

I think I'm going to bring up the fact that BMC was in February and also see if I can comb through the regulations to cite something. But I think I am done going back and forth with this other person. I don't see it changing. I'll just e-mail Wyrom directly. What's his contact info, someone have it?

[Methais]

Just email Wyrom. He's not a fan of retarded shit like that, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he got it handled for you because he kicks ass like that.

And chances are the GM is incorrect anyway and is just being a superdouche.

[Taernath]

I'd kill for a good Simu gonna Simu gif.

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT8qAYHjFNqPMaHxuM/giphy.gif

[Viekn]

Could someone let me know his e-mail address?

[Allereli]

Could someone let me know his e-mail address?

Pm'd. Posting emails in posts is bad news.

[Viekn]

Could someone let me know his e-mail address?

Got it, thanks!

[zennsunni]

There are - quite literally - tens of thousands of items in-game that violate this turd's narrow view of what should or should not be allowed in an alter. At MOST, the GM should require that you write a show that gives a more general impression justifying why at a glance it would appear as a 'survival' kit (i.e. This kit is adorned with loops and pouches holding a hodgepodge of outdoor's gear, first aid supplies, and simple tools etc. etc.). I mean, I kind of get the profession stuff like wizard's hats, but I think that's where the line should be drawn. Taking it to this level begs ad nauseam interpretations like, "how would someone KNOW that it's 'hunter' green camoflage?" or "elegant"? This GM should be snapped back, and if he can't deal with his nerd-bubble being popped, he can find some asinine F2P MUD with these kind of rules (and 3 whole players) to go develop on.

[Velfi]

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT8qAYHjFNqPMaHxuM/giphy.gif

http://i.imgur.com/Cmgchhb.gif

[shaukul]

Cancel it and get another GM, that's the best suggestion I've seen yet. I had two items done today that are exactly like "a survival kit" but with different adjectives, and both were double-checked by QC.

[Tgo01]

"I am sorry you are confused.


If you want a rations kit, you can roll up a new character, but we will not alter another item into one.

Holy shit this GM is a condescending prick.

"GM keeps telling me: "There is no way for someone to know that is a survival satchel by just glancing at you.""

Yeah and I'm willing to bet no one could actually tell the difference between "full plate" and "half plate" just by glancing at someone either, what an absolutely stupid argument.

How does someone know I'm wearing a "cloak" instead of a "greatcloak" just by glancing at me? Is everyone in Elanthia part of the Fashion Police?!

[Allereli]

Now "alchemy satchel" is under attack.

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Discussions%20with%20Simutronics/The%20Bad,%20and%20the%20Ugly%20(general%20complai nts)/view/14166

[Viekn]

If there's something new they are having to adhere to or some guidance GM's have been given recently as far as what will be allowed going forward, this should have been shared with the entire community before random enforcement took place.

[Taernath]

>order
Welcome to the Rogue Guild Shop!

An aging clerk offers his catalog to browse.
An aging clerk exclaims, "Greetings stranger, have a look around!"

Catalog
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. a black leather climbing pack
2. some padded black leather boots
3. a ruby-eyed black skull pin
4. some sleek black stalking leathers
5. an onyx-inlaid black leather scabbard
6. a small invar lockpick case
7. some matte black banded mail
8. a sturdy dark leather tool belt
9. a flat black chain hauberk
10. a sturdy dark leather tool satchel
11. a sturdy dark leather gem pouch
12. a fitted black metal breastplate
13. some reinforced black leather pants
14. a voluminous black stalking cloak

Plenty of stuff that is still available off the shelf doesn't mesh with this rule. Muh immersion!

[Viekn]

>order
Welcome to the Rogue Guild Shop!

An aging clerk offers his catalog to browse.
An aging clerk exclaims, "Greetings stranger, have a look around!"

Catalog
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. a black leather climbing pack
2. some padded black leather boots
3. a ruby-eyed black skull pin
4. some sleek black stalking leathers
5. an onyx-inlaid black leather scabbard
6. a small invar lockpick case - how can I look at you and know it's a "lockpick" case?
7. some matte black banded mail
8. a sturdy dark leather tool belt - how can I look at you and know it's a "tool" belt
9. a flat black chain hauberk
10. a sturdy dark leather tool satchel - same
11. a sturdy dark leather gem pouch - how can I look at you and know it's a "gem" pouch
12. a fitted black metal breastplate
13. some reinforced black leather pants
14. a voluminous black stalking cloak

Plenty of stuff that is still available off the shelf doesn't mesh with this rule. Muh immersion!

Ha! Not only that (see more above)! Their argument is how could you look at someone and know it was THAT thing? Those other examples I highlighted are the exact same. So you literally could not have a lockpick kit, a tool kit, or a gem pouch, because those are what those items DO and no one could tell that just by looking at it. That is the reasoning they are giving. I'd like to see them argue that logically that gem pouches are allowed but stalking leathers aren't.

Thank you for pointing that out Taernath. I'm going to use that as examples if I get more push back. Still waiting for my response.

[Allereli]

There is no crack down happening. Alchemy and survival should be fine, and I'll make sure that we get to the bottom of that.

looks like overzealous GMing. You'll be fine.

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Discussions%20with%20Simutronics/The%20Bad,%20and%20the%20Ugly%20(general%20complai nts)/view/14173

[Whirlin]

Wyrom laying down the hammer~

[Viekn]

looks like overzealous GMing. You'll be fine.

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Discussions%20with%20Simutronics/The%20Bad,%20and%20the%20Ugly%20(general%20complai nts)/view/14173

There's some other interesting responses on that page worth reading. Thanks for posting Allereli.

[zennsunni]

My love/hate relationship with Wyrom's decisions continues....

[Methais]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/61/26/6a/61266a865545f3c757921c0bb0b32764.jpg

[Jarvan]

Drop the scroll and resubmit a new one. You got a bad GM.

I believe it's only ~1~ GM doing them now.

[Viekn]

I believe it's only ~1~ GM doing them now.

Well Retser said he was the one that was denying alchemy bag and survival kit. So I wonder if it's just him doing it. Wyrom said that alchemy bag and survival kit are fine and that he'd be sure to get to the bottom of it. Not long after that my scroll was updated to say it had been submitted to QC for approval, but Shahno was working yesterday morning so I dropped the scroll in hopes I could just have him do it, but I didn't get chosen. So I picked up another scroll immediately after that and resubmitted but haven't gotten any response back yet. That was yesterday around 11:30.

[Methais]

Well Retser said he was the one that was denying alchemy bag and survival kit. So I wonder if it's just him doing it. Wyrom said that alchemy bag and survival kit are fine and that he'd be sure to get to the bottom of it. Not long after that my scroll was updated to say it had been submitted to QC for approval, but Shahno was working yesterday morning so I dropped the scroll in hopes I could just have him do it, but I didn't get chosen. So I picked up another scroll immediately after that and resubmitted but haven't gotten any response back yet. That was yesterday around 11:30.

Tell them you changed your mind and you want it to be "a Wyrom kit".

[Viekn]

So I e-mailed Wyrom on Tuesday. I also added a response to someone else's post on the officials on Tuesday that was having rejections to their alchemy bag, just saying that I had been running in to the same issue with survival kit. Wyrom posted on the officials the same day: "There is no crack down happening. Alchemy and survival should be fine, and I'll make sure that we get to the bottom of that."

I dropped my original Sadie scroll and wrote a new one on Wednesday of this week. I haven't gotten a response yet via e-mail or my scroll. Just wondering how much longer I should wait before trying to reach back out and what that 2nd attempt at reaching out should be? Assist? Follow up post on the officials asking for status?

[Allereli]

So I e-mailed Wyrom on Tuesday. I also added a response to someone else's post on the officials on Tuesday that was having rejections to their alchemy bag, just saying that I had been running in to the same issue with survival kit. Wyrom posted on the officials the same day: "There is no crack down happening. Alchemy and survival should be fine, and I'll make sure that we get to the bottom of that."

I dropped my original Sadie scroll and wrote a new one on Wednesday of this week. I haven't gotten a response yet via e-mail or my scroll. Just wondering how much longer I should wait before trying to reach back out and what that 2nd attempt at reaching out should be? Assist? Follow up post on the officials asking for status?

Wait the full two weeks they say to give them. Jainna just got back from vacation so it's probably still going slow.

[Enuch]

Side note but I wonder if Retser was like WTF because after his long post under ten minutes later wyrom pulled the pimp hand out and told everyone he would handle his ladies and get shit fixed.

I actually really like both of them, just thought it was funny

[Viekn]

Wait the full two weeks they say to give them. Jainna just got back from vacation so it's probably still going slow.

Eeesh. Thanks Allereli. I can definitely understand since Jainna just got back, but these PP's are burning a whole in my pocket. I've got other stuff that I want to get done also and it sucks you can only have one scroll outstanding at a time.

[Enuch]

#premiumproblems.

[Whirlin]

... Now I want a Wyrom Kit...

I haven't actually worked with Retser directly, but he seemed out of his element in supporting Sadie Scrolls, and doing his best to just be a backup. Honestly, Kudos to him for standing up for his actions and explaining them, even if Wyrom did come in immediately following and lay down the law.

Jainna is absolutely amazing... I've had a lot of great interactions in my past working with her with Sadie scrolls, especially during that 10% off HSN promotion. It sucks that you've had such difficulty getting your relatively simple (I assume) alter done on your item, and just want to stress you're the outlier in this situation, and this is absolutely not the norm!

[Viekn]

Side note but I wonder if Retser was like WTF because after his long post under ten minutes later wyrom pulled the pimp hand out and told everyone he would handle his ladies and get shit fixed.

I actually really like both of them, just thought it was funny

I appreciated that he owned up and responded, and to clarify what his thought process is. But I feel he was being a bit overzealous with just saying "No". If the alter request is something that can obviously be done, great, do it. If it obviously can't be done (inappropriate, out of genre, etc), deny it. But for stuff in between, don't just say no because the answer isn't readily available. Send it to QC first before outright denying it.

[Enuch]

... Now I want a Wyrom kit...

His in game character is like a rotting corpse right? I feel like I saw him briefly during last dusk ruin and he was stinky walking through. Theoretically if bits of him dropped off and you collected those bits for alter fodder would they approve an actual wyrom kit? I feel like they would have to or at least want to.

[Whirlin]

I appreciated that he owned up and responded, and to clarify what his thought process is. But I feel he was being a bit overzealous with just saying "No". If the alter request is something that can obviously be done, great, do it. If it obviously can't be done (inappropriate, out of genre, etc), deny it. But for stuff in between, don't just say no because the answer isn't readily available. Send it to QC first before outright denying it.
I dunno, I can appreciate what he did... he felt he was empowered to make such decisions unilaterally based on his interpretation of the alteration standards. No reason to send something to another GM for review when you're empowered to be the first line of defense for such requests, and it doesn't comply with your understanding of the rules. And in the end, it's been addressed and solutioned in a forward going basis... Yeah, sucks for you in the interim waiting, and not ideal that you needed to chime in about your experiences in a compliant with them, but from a business perspective, that's really an ideal turn of events, and you did the right thing by making this post on these forums and the officials for it to be addressed!

[Whirlin]

His in game character is like a rotting corpse right? I feel like I saw him briefly during last dusk ruin and he was stinky walking through. Theoretically if bits of him dropped off and you collected those bits for alter fodder would they approve an actual wyrom kit? I feel like they would have to or at least want to.

Now I want an Wyrom-Skin Alchemy Survival Kit... which will be a self-filling booze container.

[Gelston]

His in game character is like a rotting corpse right? I feel like I saw him briefly during last dusk ruin and he was stinky walking through. Theoretically if bits of him dropped off and you collected those bits for alter fodder would they approve an actual wyrom kit? I feel like they would have to or at least want to.

No, GMs are OOC entites. :(

[Methais]

No, GMs are OOC entites. :(

WHEN THEY ANSWER SOMEONE'S REFERRAL IT RUINS MY IMMERSION!!!!!!!!11

[Gelston]

WHEN THEY ANSWER SOMEONE'S REFERRAL IT RUINS MY IMMERSION!!!!!!!!11

I never quite knew what was worse for immersion, the GM, or the idiots in the room trying to RP with them and worship them like gods.

[chalion]

its that second thing that is not a good thing

its really simple, when a GM responds to you you just say excuse me to everyone you are with and move a room or two over and work with the gm in relative peace OOC

[Methais]

its that second thing that is not a good thing

its really simple, when a GM responds to you you just say omfg way 2 ruin my rp immersion fgt and move a room or two over and work with the gm in relative peace OOC

Fixed.

[ApexDak]

Only complaint I've got is that I can't provide rare materials in a Sadie scroll alteration. They can magically *pop* an item out of my cloak to be changed into a different item, but it's too much to magically *pop* the sephwir I've got to make a hilt out of.

Can't they just say I dropped it off with Sadie at the Lighthouse or something?

[Viekn]

So to update this: It didn't end up being Retser that denied my survival kit. He's just the one that denied the alchemy bag. I was at the Lumnea festival when Clessar showed up to do some work. I asked him to make my survival kit and he said he was the one that denied it originally (not sure who the GM is behind Clessar but he said he wasn't Retser). He said he saw Wyrom's post so was able to go ahead and change it to a survival kit. The show I had in mind also wasn't quite up to par, so he even helped me with that, which I was very appreciate of. It turns out the pelt bundling bags, because of some of their mechanics, are a bit hard to work on. He was very patient and got it worked out in the end. He went on to explain that he wasn't trying to go out of his way to deny my survival kit, but was just going off what guidance he had access to, and wanted to make sure I knew that, which I appreciated and made sure to let him know that. So in the end, everything ended up working out.

[ApexDak]

So to update this: It didn't end up being Retser that denied my survival kit. He's just the one that denied the alchemy bag. I was at the Lumnea festival when Clessar showed up to do some work. I asked him to make my survival kit and he said he was the one that denied it originally (not sure who the GM is behind Clessar but he said he wasn't Retser). He said he saw Wyrom's post so was able to go ahead and change it to a survival kit. The show I had in mind also wasn't quite up to par, so he even helped me with that, which I was very appreciate of. It turns out the pelt bundling bags, because of some of their mechanics, are a bit hard to work on. He was very patient and got it worked out in the end. He went on to explain that he wasn't trying to go out of his way to deny my survival kit, but was just going off what guidance he had access to, and wanted to make sure I knew that, which I appreciated and made sure to let him know that. So in the end, everything ended up working out.

Good to hear!