Training Help - Returning player but new character

[itharr]

Hi Guys,

It's been quite awhile since I last logged into GS3 (Probably 20 years since I've played for any meaningful length of time) and I wanted to roll a new character to familiarize myself with things again.

Here's how I've been training (Don't have character stats handy as I'm at work):

2x OHE
1x Armor
2x Shield
2x Picking
2x Disarm
2x Perception
2x Ambush
3x Stalking and Hiding
.5x Climbing
1.5x CM
1x Harness

However I'm always left with points left over and I feel like I shouldn't be (when I was leveling way before, I always felt short on points).

I'm currently OHE/Shield as it's what I'm used to but I'm struggling to find information on other things - and when I do find info, I can't tell if its outdated or not!

Anyways, here are my questions:

1. Is the above training plan viable? What do I need to tweak? Where should I be dumping extra points as a rogue? (there's all these new things, Lores and such in the training screen that I don't remember from before). I was thinking I'd save my Mental Points (seems like 10-13 a level are left over) for spells from the MinE circle?

2. Is UAC viable at low levels? Like can I level from the ground up using UAC or is it something that uscks at low levels and comes into its own down the road (eg, something for a fixskills once I'm 20 or 30 or something). If it is viable, can someone please clarify as to what should be trained with it? I believe is should be 3x Brawling and 3x Dodge, no shield and one rank of TWC?

3. 2x Disarm/Lockpick/Perception + Lock and trap lore is sufficient to pick boxes I will get as drops, yes?

4. Why not 3x OHE vs 2x OHE? Every guide I've read and the wiki seem to indicate it should be 2x, but I don't understand why.

5. Is 3x S&H overkill?

6. Should I be doing more Ambush?

7. Is MOC needed at all as a Rogue?

8. Combat Maneuvers - Which ones should I take and in which order? Does it matter or is it just a playstyle thing? Are there any that I should absolutely avoid regardless or any that I should absolutely take based on my training plan?

Most of my hunting will be undead (at higher levels) as my wife is a Cleric, so it's kind of her thing.

Thanks a ton all, info seem to be scattered all over and its hard to make sense of it all.

-Itharr

PS: Where do Rogues gather to pick now? I went to the East Tower in the Landing and it was empty.

[Whirlin]

you forgot dodging.

[kcostell]

My Rogue's level 42 so this advice is based more on experience in the low to mid levels.

East tower is still used for picking, though a lot of people run a script to use an NPC locksmith instead (then complain because he charges so much). There's also a SERVICE verb you can use to advertise your locksmithing. For self picking, 2x everything plus lore has been more than enough so far.

2xOHE is the maximum training allowed (More precisely, 2x+2; you can start your level n+1 training while you're still level n). I double in stalking/hiding, and it feels like that's enough for low/mid levels, though you may want to pick up more later on. I use the extra points to fully double in Combat Maneuvers. Useful maneuvers for me have been Shadow Mastery->Vanish (AKA "get out of jail free when you screw up an ambush") and Combat Mobility (AKA "get out of jail free when you get knocked over in RT").

2x Ambush is also the limit, and I haven't trained MOC at all. I'd suggest doubling dodge, singling shield use, and sticking to a small shield to take advantage of the dodging.


Why the 1x Harness Power? If you're just using mana for lores, you probably only need a few ranks.

One thing to keep in mind is that training in GS4 is much more changeable than in GS3. You can double in a skill now, decide later on that you need triple instead, and go back and pick up the missing ranks. There's even a yearly fixskill if you want to make more drastic changes.

[Gnomad]

1. Almost all training plans are viable. This is in pretty standard and will work just fine. Just get the dodging Whirlin mentioned.

2. UAC is fine at all levels. 2x brawl.

3. No, but it'll come close. You'll be able to pick most of them.

4. You can't 3x weapon skills, you can only 2x them. That's why everyone's telling you to 2x.

5. 2x S&H is fine, 3x is better. It's a point tradeoff.

6. You can't do more than 2x ambush.

7. MOC is never needed for anybody. It's always just a really nice bonus. Less important for rogues that specialize in 1v1 and ambushing.

8. It's a playstyle thing. The one thing you really want is Vanish, which lets you hide while in RT. It's a defensive skill more than an offensive one. You need to get at least 4 ranks of shadow mastery first. Everything else matters a lot less.

[itharr]

Why the 1x Harness Power? If you're just using mana for lores, you probably only need a few ranks.


Wow I feel dumb. For some reason, I was thinking Harness Power was the ability that controlled how much mana you could transfer. My wife is a Cleric, so every character I've played I always make sure I got however many ranks were needed to get to 1:1.

Thanks for the other info, that is perfect.

Regarding dodging, I thought you either trained in Dodge or Shield, I didn't know you did both. Ok good to know, thank you Whirlin.

Not sure why I thought you could 3x weapon skills and ambush. Think I was looking at total ranks and forgot that level 0 counted.

As far as UAC goes, I can use fist weapons right? Enchanting them applies bonuses just like normal weapons do?

Thanks for all the info everyone.

[Enuch]

If you do GOS some Moc Is nice to mitigate FoF and if you do use UAC MOC is badass as a combo.

As for 2x lock picking you will be fine for a long time to pick your own stuff, know undead boxes tend to be more difficult for their level ranges and lock pick quality can mitigate a ton as does lore you just lose some exp. I have a similar type of build as TWC ambush and only 2x and at 27 have 0 issues picking my own stuff and even dip my toes in things a little above me with 403 and 404 to brave the way

[Enuch]

You don't need fist weapons either, you can get gloves and boots specifically for UAC and you can get them as 4x too, UAC with voln has the added bonus once you hit rank 10 of never needing a bless. You may sacrifice a little attack for it (makes your gear 0x) but that is easily manageable vs undead I used to do it and not need a bless is a huge perk if you like undead, and if your wife is a cleric you probably hunt undead.

[itharr]

Thanks!

Do you train shield with UAC or just dodge? I'm assuming you still need to stance dance?

Also another question, sorry - I started with two claws (Troll and tiger claw) - When I'm holding them and punch though, I get a message say I'm hindered by them. Are they meant to only be used with Attack/Kill?

Is there a shop to buy UAC gloves/boots in Vultite or is it only purchasble from merchants/other players?

[Vorpodu]

There is a list of UAC compatible brawling weapons on the wiki. But you will still sacrifice MM for DF even with them. I wouldn't recommend the UAC compatible weapons for that reason. DF is fine when tiered up. My warrior is trained as a shielded brawler but I can 3x shield use as a warrior and use a tower. Rogues can easily 3x dodge. As a rogue I think 3xing dodge is a better option. You can get some DS back by being at least .5x TWC and not holding anything. UAC is a totally effective path as a rogue coupled with ambushing from hiding. Auto tier ups on punches from hiding aimed for the head pretty much kill everything or severely disable it for an easy clean up. Training path would be thus:

2x armor to whatever you want to wear then stop
2x Brawl
1x PF (Get this to 2x quickly)
2x Hide
2x Ambush
2x CMan
3x Dodge
.5x TWC
1x perception

That's the base of an ambushing brawler. Add MoC up to whatever threshold you want to be able to focused Mstrike. 90 is a good goal. Tertiary skills like climbing/swimming as needed to access hunting grounds.

[Vorpodu]

4x UAC gloves and boots can be purchased from the Landing weapon shop backroom. Just run an easy script to buy like 100 daggers and you got it.

[Allereli]

4x UAC gloves and boots can be purchased from the Landing weapon shop backroom. Just run an easy script to buy like 100 daggers and you got it.

you can get them a lot more conveniently in Icemule on a cart or in playershops https://ps.lichproject.org

[kutter]

My rogue is in his late 60's and my path is similar to yours so it is very viable. Having said that I think I have 5 ranks of HP and no mana control, I just chalk it up to not being able to share, and truthfully clerics have one of the most effective vs mana spells out there in smite/bane so she will likely not have much of an issue with mana. The one glaring thing I noticed is arcane symbols, you need about 10 ranks so you can disarm scarabs.

One other thing, I tried 3X Stalk and hide for a while and for me it did not seem to be worth it, the things I could hide from at 3 I could hide from at 2 and some things like canine based and undead would find me no mater what, they just suck so do not hunt them if you can avoid it, they are a pain in the but to hide from. I suspect a stalk and hide ranger with their spells is the only thing that can hide form critters like that.

[Vorpodu]

you can get them a lot more conveniently in Icemule on a cart or in playershops https://ps.lichproject.org

sure, take the easy way out