What am I doing wrong

[Meriman2]

Okay, I went UAC and while I love the attacks damage and so forth, I find I'm getting my ass kicked on a regular basis from things that shouldn't be knocking me silly. Any help is HUGELY appreciated

Here's my info: Dwarven Rogue
Start Current Cap
STR 80 96 100
CON 64 80 100
DEX S 81 92 100
AGL P 75 87 100
DIS 69 81 100
AUR M 71 79 91
LOG 50 66 86
INT 62 79 100
WIS M 78 84 94
INF 30 45 63


Current Skills
Armor Use 24 (0.6X)
Shield Use
Brawling 74 (2.0X)
Two Weapon Combat 9 (0.2X)
Combat Maneuvers 74 (2.0X)
Ambush 54 (1.5X)
Physical Fitness 38 (1.0X)
Dodging 74 (2.0X)
Climbing 11 (0.3X)
Swimming 8 (0.2X)
Disarm Traps 111 (3.0X)
Picking Locks 111 (3.0X)
Stalking and Hiding 55 (1.5X)
Perception 74 (2.0X)

Cap
Armor Use 90 (0.9X)
Brawling 202 (2.0X)
Two Weapon Combat 58 (0.6X)
Combat Maneuvers 202 (2.0X)
Ambush 155 (1.5X)
Physical Fitness 102 (1.0X)
Dodging 202 (2.0X)
Climbing 50 (0.5X)
Swimming 50 (0.5X)
Disarm Traps 303 (3.0X)
Picking Locks 303 (3.0X)
Stalking and Hiding 156 (1.5X)
Perception 202 (2.0X)


And I'm getting this
A cold guardian swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +240 vs DS: +127 with AvD: +4 + d100 roll: +24 = +141
... and hits for 1 point of damage!
Blow glances off your shoulder.

And giving this
You leap from hiding to strike!
You attempt to jab a cold guardian!
You have excellent positioning against a cold guardian.
UAF: 228 vs UDF: 195 = 1.169 * MM: 79 + d100: 97 = 189
... and hit for 37 points of damage!
The cold guardian is stunned!
The cold guardian appears to be moving more slowly!
Roundtime: 2 sec.

[Enuch]

With UAC 1x in TWC will give you a nice DS boost I think it's .5 DS or 1 DS a rank something like that, someone in the know can chime in

[Enuch]

Also for me on my rogue I never jabbed from the shadows, I always legged them or kicked the chest or punched their face, but that's just me

[Astray]

You attempt to jab a cold guardian!
You have excellent positioning against a cold guardian.


When ambushing creatures with UAC I believe you get a jump in tier. Now, that being said, why the fuck are you still jabbing at the best positioning? Punch or kick the damn thing. Jab ain't shit.

Next, bump your dodge up to 3x if possible. Dodge is your best friend. What are you putting your cman points into?

[Velfi]

... why the fuck are you still jabbing at the best positioning? Punch ... the damn thing. Jab ain't shit.

This.

[Astray]

This.

Kick! Punch! It's all in the mind.

If you wanna test me, I'm sure you'll find.

The things I'll teach ya is sure to beat ya.

[Donquix]

yeah holy shit, don't jab on ambush. Punch, jab is for tierups, period. Good god that should fix your problems. It is literally impossible to kill something with a jab, short of getting a weapon flare. The highest rank jab criticals to head/neck/eye are just stuns (silences, etc.)


With UAC 1x in TWC will give you a nice DS boost I think it's .5 DS or 1 DS a rank something like that, someone in the know can chime in

the DS per rank for TWC with UAC is pretty shit. If you have >= 1 rank of TWC you get a static +5 DS (plus any extra from the per rank increase), if you are >= .5x trained the static DS is +15. It's dirt cheap as a monk so sometime in my 30's i just pumped a bunch of points into it until I had 51 ranks, and have ignored it ever since. I actually should do some calculations to figure out what is more defense per TP invested since it is so cheap (compared to say, dodge once you're over 2x).

https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Two_Weapon_Combat#Defensive_Strength

[Allereli]

wax on, wax off

[Meriman2]

The jab was me trying to stun one of the three things in the room and I didn't want the extra RT. I just don't have enough points to go 3x dodge without dropping something else and I already kicked first aid and survival to the curb. I'll try punch and kick more often, just worry that I'll miss

[Velfi]

I don't even really mess with kick. Punching, particularly an aimed punch to the head, from a tier 3 position gets the job done just fine with less RT than kick.

[etambusiness]

something usually has to give if your a 3x disarm / picker rogue, especially if your training in hiding when your at a lower level

i had a few rogues that were 3x locksmith stuff from 20 - 100. You probably need to make sacrifices at lower levels to make uphunting and decent solo hunting in general viable

I generally find open archer 3x locksmith very viable. I cant say for the UAC route but seems like your going to struggle if your DS is only 124 and probably more so once you go towards cap

[Viekn]

something usually has to give if your a 3x disarm / picker rogue, especially if your training in hiding when your at a lower level

i had a few rogues that were 3x locksmith stuff from 20 - 100. You probably need to make sacrifices at lower levels to make uphunting and decent solo hunting in general viable

I generally find open archer 3x locksmith very viable. I cant say for the UAC route but seems like your going to struggle if your DS is only 124 and probably more so once you go towards cap

I'm going to piggy back a bit since you brought it up in this response. What's the viability of leveling these days if you're primarily a 3x locksmith looking to level by just picking boxes. And if you go that route, at what level is that feasible to focus just on opening boxes for leveling?

[Thatoneguy22]

Drop your picking and disarm to 2-2.5x instead of a full 3x. I would just go to 2x for now, and sprinkle in extra ranks as needed once you are hunting fine.

-Take your armor up to 30 and get some 4x+ brig.
-You put shield use in there but I assume 0x and will ignore.
-If you want more DS and you want to pick better, get up to 404 and consider up to 406. This will give you better disarming and picking (they are self cast multipliers on the formula) and also additional DS through spells. 403/404 are way more impactful with 2x picking/disarm than 3x picking/disarm tp for tp.
-If you have TP left over and still want more DS, increase TWC. I like 1x on my open handed UAC for the additional DS
-Get spells before you hunt.
-Don't use jab from hiding.

[Velfi]

something usually has to give if your a 3x disarm / picker rogue, especially if your training in hiding when your at a lower level

i had a few rogues that were 3x locksmith stuff from 20 - 100. You probably need to make sacrifices at lower levels to make uphunting and decent solo hunting in general viable

I generally find open archer 3x locksmith very viable. I cant say for the UAC route but seems like your going to struggle if your DS is only 124 and probably more so once you go towards cap

This is pretty true. At lower levels, the 3x/3x isn't strictly necessary. You can generally get your boxes into the 50s with 2x/2x, especially if you use some of those recovered points to pick up your lores. I think the key is to think about what you want to do and how you want to progress and plan around that. Also, invest in some nice armor in whatever AsG you're wearing and try to get spells (if you didn't already have them) before hunting. I think open archery is also a good idea for into your 60s-ish or so, as most of those critters are pretty weak to ranged, and then UAC is definitely viable while staying strong with your locksmithing. Admittedly he's a good bit older than your rogue at the moment, but here's my 88 3x/3x UAC rogue and he can hunt by himself just fine, within reason (earth elementals are pretty tough):


Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 190 90
Combat Maneuvers...................| 190 90
Brawling...........................| 280 180
Ambush.............................| 280 180
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 50 10
Physical Fitness...................| 238 138
Dodging............................| 280 180
Arcane Symbols.....................| 66 14
Harness Power......................| 78 17
Elemental Mana Control.............| 102 24
Disarming Traps....................| 370 270
Picking Locks......................| 370 270
Stalking and Hiding................| 280 180
Perception.........................| 280 180
Climbing...........................| 160 60
Swimming...........................| 160 60

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4


I'm going to piggy back a bit since you brought it up in this response. What's the viability of leveling these days if you're primarily a 3x locksmith looking to level by just picking boxes. And if you go that route, at what level is that feasible to focus just on opening boxes for leveling?

I think it's perfectly viable, depending on your patience. If you want to be fried all the time and learning nearly as quickly as hunting, I don't think you're likely to get that very often. If you want to just hang out and talk to people and open their boxes, then you can still do it, especially if you advertise your services and get to where people know you're around and to look for you. I went through my 60s-low 80s mostly on boxes. Slowly.

[Hymore246]

My rogue that uses UAC turned 77 today. Here are some tips.

1. H&S needs to be at least 2x. Hiding is your main defense. The best way to not get hit is to not let them swing at all. Use whatever means you can to make yourself hide better: 601, Shadow Mastery, Armored Stealth.

2. Hunt with caution because you will get sniffed out of hiding every once in a while. Get spells to help your DS, avoid swarms, never hunt anything that is super perceptive (ie Undead stuff), and never let them swing at you outside of Defensive or it will DESTROY you.

3. Never fight out in the open. Your damage is much better when you ambush from hiding. Ambushing with UAC is BRUTAL and gives you an automatic tier up most of the time so you never need to Jab. Pick a UAC attack, get the mastery for it (Most prefer Punch), and use nothing but that attack.

4. Get Vanish. Did your ambush go wrong because you rolled a 4? Vanish. Now you are hidden again, safe from the bad guys. Combat Mobility is a life saver too. Also, grab a rank of Divert and see how you like it for breaking up swarms.

5. Trying to 1x TWC is tough due to the TP cost. Warriors and Monks might fair better but hiding is just a better idea for a rogue. A single rank should be enough.


Below are my current skills and maneuvers to give you some ideas. Happy Punching.



Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 5 1
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Combat Maneuvers...................| 256 156
Brawling...........................| 256 156
Ambush.............................| 256 156
Physical Fitness...................| 217 117
Dodging............................| 256 156
Arcane Symbols.....................| 102 24
Magic Item Use.....................| 102 24
Harness Power......................| 62 13
Disarming Traps....................| 256 156
Picking Locks......................| 256 156
Stalking and Hiding................| 295 195
Perception.........................| 178 78
Climbing...........................| 150 50
Swimming...........................| 150 50

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4




Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 5
Combat Focus focus 5
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Surge of Strength surge 1
Divert divert 2
Vanish vanish 3
Punch Mastery punchmastery 3
Striking Asp asp 1

[Donquix]

TWC is not a worthwhile investment of TPs for any class, really, over .5x Which is cheap enough for everyone, but even then, basically it's +10 DS. The per rank increase is hilariously small. (twss)

[Methais]

Kick! Punch! It's all in the mind.

If you wanna test me, I'm sure you'll find.

The things I'll teach ya is sure to beat ya.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/parappatherapper/images/2/21/CCMOPTR.png/revision/latest?cb=20130529234915

[StrayRogue]

So what is the deal with brawling in heavy armor? Is that a no-go for rogues these days?

[Methais]

So what is the deal with brawling in heavy armor? Is that a no-go for rogues these days?

I imagine it would be like this:
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/2443749/star-trek-worst-fight-scene-o.gif

[Viekn]

TWC is not a worthwhile investment of TPs for any class, really, over .5x Which is cheap enough for everyone, but even then, basically it's +10 DS. The per rank increase is hilariously small. (twss)

As it relates to brawling? Or just in general?

[Itachi]

UAC for rogue really picks up around 50 because you go 2x shield use and pick up max rank of shielded brawler instead of hoping for the TWC DS boost to save you, shield is far more valuable. Hymore's general advice was good and I have found just going punch mastery and punch head from stealth is the most efficient approach. A lot of the time you can get the one shot with it because of the high probability of tier bonus, and if you don't get the kill a majority of the time you will stun them to give yourself time to restealth and pretty much guarantee the kill on the next punch head. This is also where the true value of grapple and unbalance flares come into play. The main issue with ALL rogue specs is getting caught out with your dick in your hand after a botched ambush. These types of flares give you one extra layer of defense (which for rogues is not getting hit) if you either (a) dont get the one shot kill or (b) dont get the stun. It's essentially an extra contingency plan and I feel that is far more valuable to rogues than a more damage oriented flare.

After you max shielded brawler you will continue to train shield use for the DS benefit, but you will eventually have a surplus of SHIELD points. There aren't any real clear cut front runners for the supplementary skills but I went with maxing deflection training next. This pretty much follows the same thought process of wanting to put yourself in the best position to live/mitigate damage if you do end up in the low % position of being in the open rt in offensive. On the few rare occasions I end up with that as the last resort, The extra buffer of deflecting bolts/shots I found to be very handy and a majority of the time it actually kills the caster/shooter when it goes back to them.

In regards to StrayRogues question about armor I have basically developed 2 schools of thought through my experience. It basically comes down to the dice roll of do you want to go more offensive in terms of a bonus to MM and try to avoid damage, or go eat a nominal MM penalty and attempt to tank damage better. The main issue with avoidance when it comes to armor is the CMAN evade mastery. If you are going glass cannon and wear robes, you actually gain a flat 27% chance to dodge right off the top which is huge just for a CMAN skill. On the other side of that spectrum once you are in MBP+ or even hauberk for that matter, evade mastery becomes less viable of an option until later and you have points to burn because its a heavy investment for only a 3% chance to dodge in contrast.

With that in mind, until you hit 50 and can switch to shield use and see which style you like better I would absolutely recommend dropping your dodge ranks to 1x and increasing your armor training to the highest you can get, at the very least up to hauberk. Once you are capped you can fuck around with trying to be a glass cannon Bruce Lee ninja but early on especially you are going to get hit and armor is going to give you the best chance of surviving that inevitability. Also increase your SnH to 2x. Once you switch to shield use over TWC you will actually have more points to spend, but until that happens and if you need more points to get your other primary skills up I talked about, peel those points from dodging.

If you have any follow up questions let me know.

[Jeril]

Heavy armor doesn't really hurt your MM too much, it is 1/4 the AP.

1 rank of TWC is always worth it for the DS if you have your left hand empty when brawling. I have always been too lazy to figure it out but for rogues and monks there comes a time when 3x dodge is cheaper then trying to maintain .5x in TWC.

Avoiding swarms and fighting more 1 on 1 is the way to go, divert is great for this and vanish is your friend as already stated. Punch mastery does tend to be the way to go, something I will suggest is punch leg then go for the head shot at low levels. Later on you may want to use an unaimed jab for the first attack then a punch to the head to finish it off. I say jab because they lowered the rt making it quicker and you'd just be using the jab to get the auto tier from hiding to finish the creature off with a maxed tier punch to the face.

Shield swiftness can net you more DS, I once did the numbers on the exact break points but it has been a while so I forget. But its something like 2x dodge then 2x shield until you have either 2 or 3 ranks of swift then focus on 3x dodge and only worry about shield to maintain 1x in it until you have dodge maxed then back to shield use.